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  1. Sartre’s “Hell is other people,” is from Huis Clos, which I saw well performed at Cant Uni decades ago. Sartre is talking literally; he portrays hell as three people being locked together in a room for eternity, in this case I think an immoral socialite, a gay man, a philandering male – the hell is that these three persons have to tolerate each other’s conversation for ever and ever with no escape.

    So Sartre may not need updating, maybe other people’s twitter feeds do a similar sort of job – but at least they can be escaped from, unlike Sartre’s hell, which should be enough to keep anyone on the strait and narrow.

    I am not sure that the left are worse than the right at forgiving and forgetting either – my far right relatives put elephants’ memories to shame – all extremes are usually bad news.

  2. Worthy of consideration …

    The thing about the ‘Roseanne’ show is; does it question and explore the rationale behind resentment from Trump-supporters? Or merely validate and fuel it?

    If the former, it’s intrinsic value would merit preservation and encouragement.

    If the latter…

    If Trump is a symptom of what ails Working Class America, does ‘Roseanne’ look at the root-causes of the disease? Or does it exacerbate it?

    For example, Trump stood on a Republican ticket. Yet, it was Reagan’s Republican Party that implemented many of the free market policies that ultimately shafted the Working Classes and hollowed out the Middle.

    How would ‘Roseanne’ address that contradiction in US politics?

    Because blaming immigrants (who don’t vote) for something US voters did to themelves hardly seems productive.

    Just thinking out loud…

  3. You’re wrong. We don’t have any impact on evolution, with society and culture? They’re chinese-walled? Nonsense, they are cofactors and culture is the socially operative catalyst for the genetics. And as for the highest mercies for Roseanne, what if someone else deserves a chance? Personally I’ve heard enough of her for good. Don’t make a fool of yourself being kind to someone who isn’t.

  4. The Great Way is not difficult for those who do not pick and choose.

    When preferences are cast aside the Way stands clear and undisguised.

    But even slight distinctions made set earth and heaven far apart.

    If you would clearly see the truth, discard opinions pro and con.

    To founder in dislike and like is nothing but the mind’s disease.

    Sengcan – 3rd Zen Patriarch

  5. I do not wholly agree with Peterson, as he is economically rather to the right of me, but I do think he has a place in the conversation, and I admire him for forcing his way into the increasingly scripted dialogue that public discourse has become. It was great fun watching him challenging Cathy Newman’s assumptions on the BBC.

    As to the “equality of opportunities/equality of outcomes” bit, I do not think that favouring the former brings his entire philosophical framework down, it simply points to his position in relation to a false dichotomy. And this false dichotomy, along with the concept of “choice” plays a big part in why it is so hard to get the middle class liberal left and the working class back onto the same page.

    What we should be aiming for at base is not so much equality as substantive human rights – the right to secure housing and to earn an adequate living – in short, the preconditions for a modestly flourishing life as a bottom line. However, to achieve that, a degree of authoritarianism is needed, to keep the capitalists’ hands off the relevant resources. This does not necessarily mean the abandonment of feminism, gay rights, racial equality etc., but the capitalists pretend it does – that their freedom to exploit equates in some way with personal freedoms. And it is all too easy to half belief them if you yourself are materially doing OK, but are open to feeling threatened on the personal freedom front. To reconnect these two branches of the left, we need to get past the either/or of personal freedom or basic material security.

  6. Correction, wasn’t Baudelaire but French poet Gerard De Nerval who walked lobsters.

  7. I discovered Peterson’s “Maps of Meaning” long before he objected to authoritarian legislation and became infamous for what is a very principled stance. He is far more subtle and intricate than Bomber would have us believe, and I doubt he would take any joy in annoying people who Bomber thinks it good sport to do so.

    I think the case that he represents heteronormative cis males is a miserable indictment of the thinking and facile ideology of the extreme Left who lingually dominate discourse through labelling. Quite frankly to call me a moniker like heteronormative cis without my consent I find rather high and mighty, then to attribute me to an identity…well we know where that path leads to, knocks on the door at night. And to justify this by saying that “this is how it feels” is quite frankly an invitation to retributive ideologies. I’m a kulak, a running dog roader, bourgeois, whatever, it’s my fault. Peterson quite rightly points out the result of this train of thought, countless millions dead.

    Of course the argument is “you dominate the hierarchy”, well hell, do all we white males? Do you really think that we do? Can others break into / change this hierarchy? I’d suggest look at the record, it’s happening. There are far bigger questions here about the nature of hierarchical structures and their relationship to our society than just demonizing the current incumbents. Peterson doesn’t say don’t change things, he advises caution and a realistic appraisal, is that so wrong?

    I like what Olwyn says about the equality of opportunity / outcome nexus, that it is not simple. I am in total agreement with Peterson that equality of outcome is a Utopian idea. Where it has been attempted we have seen incredible misery and death tolls, and failure. History is not judgemental, that’s for you and I to observe and decide. My reading on Stalin over 40 years lead me to conclude that he was a true believer in a Utopian outcome, as were his coterie of lieutenants. They all happily signed death warrants for millions of labelled enemies of their ideal. Identity politics, pure and simple.

    There’s another bit Peterson emphasises. The biology of behavior, gender differences and intelligence. Years of empirical documented, peer reviewed, and agreed observation. Fact aka the way things are as opposed to how we want them to be. These things will conspire against equality of outcome, as will chance. Peterson doesn’t go down this path, I have made some conceptual leaps and I’d say its dangerous territory in today’s political climate. So to conclude I like that Olwyn points out acceptable safeguards around rights etc as preferred to equality of outcome.

  8. So, not just talk about being inclusive but actually be inclusive with others of different opinion? That is radical.

  9. What the left seemingly fails to grasp is that the appeal of the likes of Peterson does NOT necessitate any radical transformation of political thought.

    The political goalposts have shifted so abruptly in the last couple of years that it is now possible for someone who was rabidly left wing 35 years ago to be considered today a Conservative, without having changed their political views one iota.

    There is little common ground between an old school economically left-wing, socially cautious universalist like Norman Kirk and today’s hyper-identitarian bourgeois Guardian-reading faux-left with their constructed dichotomies, victim narratives and authoritarian suppression of dissent.

    Today’s left increasingly resembles the regressive, sanctimonious moral prudes of the 1970s, calculatedly taking offence for politically-motivated ends, dogmatically demanding state intervention to silence their opponents, while obsessively and excessively indulging in the “shaming” of any transgressors.

    This is where “progressivism” has taken us.

    1. Thank you, forceful but fair. I will now sup conservatively on a radical red glass of wine.

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