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  1. As a matter of some potential importance, does anyone have any idea of the strength of National’s ‘right-wing’ in the new caucus? The people who would do a Shipley if English concedes too much to the centre?

  2. The bottom line is that to do anything meaningful, apart from the veto, you have to be in government.
    Labour will not shaft the Greens again, so that shut out won’t happen.

    New Zealand First has been allowed not to announce who they will coalesce with because they trust Winston over the two main parties. And for no other reason.

    Winston, we believe, is committed to the main thrust of the NZF policies, all of which will struggle with National. So to achieve a legacy, he will have to go with Labour and the Greens.

    From that perspective, he has essentially no choice.

    That doesn’t mean he will choose that option. But let there be no mistake. When Winston leaves, there will be no one left who is trusted in the same way. So for new Zealand First to survive they will have to either announce before an election who they will go with or what their bottom lines are, or attach themselves to some identifiable issue.

    However, if I read Peters right, the legacy he wishes to leave is not NZF, particularly, it is some policy achievement that will outlast us all.

    My guess is that it will be either a Senate or a full rail link between Tauranga, Whangarei and Hamilton.

    I mean serious infrastructure, if he can’t get a permanent block on Immigration, which, in any case can’t outlast any individual administration.

    And NOT the well-being of NZF political aspirants.

    And let me make one last point.

    Labour and Labour voters are not going to settle for something that they regret as they sign it.

    Opposition is better than that.

  3. I am of the view that an early election, maybe as early ad mid to late next year, is definitely possible, yes perhaps even likely.

    NZ First are a party that will go up the noses of many, on both side of the spectrum, sooner or later, whether they support one of the larger parties, or not, and sit on the cross benches.

    While some of us celebrated National losing some key allies (Dunne and MP), thus being short of a majority, they will now have to try and make a deal with Winston and NZ First, who they enjoyed ridiculing or attacking during the last three and more years.

    And as Winston has at times attacked both, Nats and Labour, the Labour Party will despite of more in common with NZ First policy, also have their problems with NZ First, forget not, there is one Shane Jones in the mix now.

    Progressive minded women, minority representatives, Tangata Whenua and so, those within Labour, they will not be happy with some of the lines that have and likely still will come from Winston and his colleagues. Least happy will be the Greens, although James Shaw is bending over backwards to get a ‘change of government’.

    It is a real mess, the whole situation, and the election result was a disappointment to me, as Labour Greens were not given the vote for change, they had hoped for.

  4. One more thing.

    We do hope that New Zealand First have already opted to join a progressive government where their new ideas are going to be welcome. However, they may opt for some other arrangement with a conservative do-nothing party. This is their perfect right.

    However, since they hold the “casting vote” it will be the Left’s pleasure to spend as long as necessary introducing those policies New Zealand First promoted, that were also part of both the Greens’ and Labour’s policy. There are many many many. From minimum wage to TPP to immigration reform, to housing to rail and beyond. (In fact theoretically, we could see a National government which can chose to introduce the entire Left programme or resign. And we know which it will be).

    But one wonders how many dead rats the Keep-Them-Honest Party would have to swallow before they were seen as the party of Sell-Out, or alternatively, they brought down the National regime or lost half their caucus to the “baubles of office”, as we have seen before.

  5. “The course of New Zealand politics at this stage, is tantamount to a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury and quite potentially signifying nothing.”

    Well put. The only good thing I can say about this election is that if we did not have representative government we would potentially be engaged in a viscous civil war. There will be a vicious propaganda war whatever NZ Fist decide, we know that because it began on election night. But at least it’s unlikely to lead to armed conflict in the streets. Probably.

    1. There will be no ‘ armed civil war ‘ , – nor is one necessary.

      In no way shape of fashion are conditions here in NZ even REMOTELY bad enough for groups to coalesce into a united front.

      The very idea of that in NZ currently is a joke.

      True there may be a few isolated individuals or small groups who might talk about it ,… but no . Its just not going to happen. But you are VERY RIGHT about this :

      … ” The only good thing I can say about this election is that if we did not have representative government we would potentially be engaged in a viscous civil war ” … but even if we still had FFP ,… all that would happen would be what happened before , – when the public voted for MMP.

      And yes of course, …no matter which way Peters goes , there will be a propaganda war ,- more efficiently financed from the far right than the Left , – if they are spurned. Which is a high possibility.

      We already know who has been pulling the strings behind govts to carry on the neo liberal agenda in this country for the last three decades, – none other than groups such as the New Zealand Initiative. The money people. The Globalists.

      And yes they will use every dirty underhanded method and the media to collapse , undermine , and weaken a Labour led govt. That’s a guaranteed cert ! Their Empire is being threatened. These ‘ born to rule’ types will not take things lying down .

      But this is good.

      This is where we want to be. Blatantly and audaciously exposing their spurious deceitful treasonous narrative with which they have plied the NZ public for decades unchallenged.

      THIS is where the theater of war will be conducted , – in the office , in the factory’s , – in every large and small business in this land , in every home , in every public gathering. In every political debate , in every opening of parliament , in every dialogue of just what the definition really means , … by the term ‘national sovereignty ‘ as the foundation stone of our very society.

      Both economically , – AND socially .

  6. OMG! If none of them holds the vaunted ‘mandate’ they’ll ALL have to co-operate! We, the people, might actually get a fair deal for the first time in ages! Woohoo! and bring on the age of active cross benches. More change than we’d bargained for after nine long years of fearful status quo. ‘Strong and stable’ – oh, the irony!

    ‘National takes the long view’ – quarterly figures, of course. Unless it’s that long rearward view to the Golden Years when the plebs knew their place. A sweet little chuckle, that one.

    1. Hah, I think Curwen is no longer all that much on the ‘inside’. Winston considers him a bit of a risk factor.

  7. “There will be a vicious propaganda war whatever NZ First decide”

    Yes that is why Winston want an overhaul of our MSM and the policy is enshrined in theirt policies.

    1. Healthy , balanced Nationalism.

      Its been a very long time since we have seen anything like that in our country. Since the 14th of July , 1984 ,…. in fact.

  8. One thing that annoys me is the msm obsession with the length of negotiations, claiming that the public is running out of patience.

    Rubbish.

    We have our own busy lives to lead and fixating on the coalition talks is the least of our concerns. The msm need to get a grip. They are delusional if they think we’re worried whether this takes two weeks or four. It is what it is.

  9. Who is kidding who here!
    This is the last hurrah for Peters.
    Forget all the weasel words and lookk at time and chances lost earlier. What does Peters want most. Time as the Prime Minister. He is down to a narrow window of opportunity so it is now or never, the train is leaving the station now.

    Whatever it takes for 12 months in the PM’s chair.
    Labour will not wear it but the Nats will and some serving arrangement will
    be cobbled together.

  10. Mr Peters has delayed announcing whether New Zealand First will do a deal with National or Labour until it’s discussed by his party’s board which is expected to meet tomorrow.
    But a politics expert said it was unlikely the New Zealand First board were the true decision-makers on who would form the next government.
    Auckland University political scientist Jennifer Curtin said she believed Mr Peters was just buying some time to think about his decision.

    http://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/nz-first-board-set-to-consider-possible-coalition-deal/ar-AAttlkC?li=AAaeXZz&ocid=spartanntp

    I agree with political scientist Jennifer Curtin. The last coalition negotiation talks have been held, Winston Peters has made his decision.

    Further than that, and as I have been saying for months now, all the evidence points to it, that decision is to go with National.

    Winston is just buying time, not to think about his decision, but to browbeat and bully his board into going along with what he knows will be deeply unpopular inside his party.

    Curtin is right, the NZF board are not the true decision makers.

    In the unlikely event that the board refuses agree to Winston Peters demand that they endorse a coalition with National, they will be sidelined.

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