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  1. Billionaires get to be billionaires by hoovering up large quantities of cash and hoarding it. The best hoovers on the market have historically been banks but this has now changed to tech and silicon valley types. At the point of the 2008 crisis, the money had already been hoovered and stashed. In place of the money was useless derivatives. The stashing produced the liquidity problem that seized the economy. All the Fed did was to legitimise the theft by the billionaire class by cancelling the worthless derivatives. So no new money since the derivatives had already been counted in the money supply and hence no inflation. It is this point that gives the lie to those who say the money supply cannot be expanded. If trouble hits the world economy, the surest way to mitigate the stress would be for the govt to increase benefits by a significant amount as this money would be spent straight into the real economy. Inflation is dead for the forseeable in a global sense and will go even lower if we adopt a green strategy where energy costs are continuing to plunge. It is indeed strange that the path to saving the planet is also the one that will have the most economic benefits and yet even with the demise of Fonterra we still look to agriculture to save us. When will the govt announce a big spending initiative on solar produced locally. The big power companies are potential dinosaurs that could be brought to heel by a govt initiative to make local solar generation and storage our future.

  2. Mike, I think your appreciation of fiat money is somewhat up the creek. The dangers are not as you paint them, especially with a floating currency. Please read the blogs of Bill Mitchell (and the many others – Stephanie Kelton, Warren Mosler , Richard Murphy included) about Modern Monetary Theory (MMT). Gold, for example, plays no part in the reality of national finances.

    1. @wilfred: Well done, my sentiments exactly. I must admit that I have not read it all because it is so wrong that I can find better things to do. I dont think anyone still believes that the Gold standard was a good idea. There is nothing wrong with fiat money – it is the only ‘money’ you can see (by looking in your wallet) It is created by the Reserve Bank and is a good little earner for the Government because the Banks have to buy it at face value (This is called seignorage). Unfortunately its only 2% of NZ total money supply.
      The other 98% is invisible money, which is just blips on a computer screen. It is created from nothing by the private banks whenever they advance a loan etc.,etc….
      You need re-educating, Mr Treen. Try the blog site of PositivemoneyUK or their book “”Modernising Money” by Andrew Jackson & Ben Johnson

      1. I’m pretty sure the banks only have to pay the cost of printing the money dennis. So a fifty costs the same few cents a ten costs.
        The gold standard had (has) the function of taking the decision making of how much money there should be in circulation out of human hands. That is what it was for. Governments and monarchs have proven throughout history to be incapable of discharging this responsibility when times get difficult , so a so called independent banking authority has been set up to perform this function . But as we see they are no more able to discharge this responsibly than government , especially as they are not subject to election and are in the present arrangement the “controlling” institutions (Reserve Banks) have effectively handed money creation and the decision of how much and who for to the commercial banks who profit directly from it’s creation.
        It’s time the elected parties took back that responsibility, but a survey in the UK found recently that few MPs have a clue how it works, and I expect that here the number is zero.
        D J S

    2. If that were so Russia, China and Turkey would not be buying tonnes and tonnes of gold to strengthen their own currencies and reduce the financial and political risk in holding US$ reserves.

      New Zealand holds no gold at all, so is at risk to the policies of the US.

      NZ could build gold reserves by charging the Martha gold mine a royalty paid in gold. Instead the owners take as much gold as they can royalty free. They tell us they pump money into the local economy of course its not like the money is just ‘given’ work is provided for the wages.

  3. None of this discussion confined to fiscal mechanisms and banker hierarchy is really related to what is happening on the real capital and that is the Non Renewable Natural Resources that the human race is consuming at record rate thus bleeding the level of meagre resource left, that being scarcer so more economically more onerous to harvest and consume. Its a finite resource with no means of a parallel quantative easing. We just have to stop using NRNRs to stand still in our consumption frenzy towards suicide.

    This can be distilled to lowering out energy harvesting and consumption to near zero. That is the key.
    Don’t like it then the alternative is to become extinct.

    The bankers and economist They are in a dream land which will soon experience chronic nightmares behond their present thinking or imagination. over which they will have no control.

    The NRNR reserve levels estimates are say
    1750 about 99+% of prehuman level.
    By
    2019 about 30-% of prehuman level with all the low hanging stuff gone.

    The last 25% will be almost un- reachable economically.
    As NRNRs grow harder to get industrialisation will falter then go into step decline. There are signs of this already in some sectors and this will compound before long. Trends look like this time interval will be less than 10 years at our present level of unmitigated consumption and of course waste.

    Bankers talk is just postponing looking at the real issues.

  4. “Watch the markets, and go long on Gold at $1500 an oz!” – Comrade Treen

    1. Well, not exactly. If you where to buy gold you should have done so 5 years ago when it was $800 an ounce or a thousand New Zealand dollars. Since then it’s risen 40%-45%. While that maybe a good multiplier for an amateur, you have to wait 5 years to get a descent pay off. You would have been better off opening a cafe, sell that after 5 years and double your money. Nah bro, with respect, I’m not dissing you. But if trading ain’t your thing, I’d kindly suggest making money out of stuff that is commensurate with your level of education.

      1. Caffe’s are a lot of work Sam, and they don’t always succeed . Especially for long before another opens across the road and everyone goes there instead. Gold right no for an investor with money for a restaurant chain would be a far better bet. The investors with real money right now are paying governments to look after it for them. Bonds at negative interest.
        D J S

    2. gold hit 2438 nz dollars friday 3 years ago i was buying between 1550 and 1850 nz dollars. it just a different way to save money outside the banking system

      1. Yeah but you wouldn’t tell a complete ametaurs on the internet, hey look, buy here and sell here, and place you stops there. You’d probably want to learn them how to buy near the lows to limit the losses, and the botching when they inevitably come back at you crying they lost all there money. That my philosophy, I think it’s better to teach people how to limit there losses and how to get out of risky positions first, rather than this asset class is best at this particular time and so on.

  5. I think the conversation as it pertains to our NZ situation of Monetary concern needs to include the offshore Trusts & Shell Company’s that have allowed our Billionaires and Wannabe Wealthy Cowboy-Culture participants to hide huge blocks of Capital in safe l’il hidey holes around the planet to avoid the tax on profits.
    The disappearing profits “actions” since 2009 (1990) undermines our tax systems ability to recover ill-gotten gains that have been allowed to move out of our system through Trusts that are supposedly invisible to the IRD and are somehow allowed to slip thru the cracks and the result has been that the Taxation Onus has fallen on the shoulders of the Middle Class salaried & Hourly workers that are VERY visible thru the PAYE scheme & GST.
    The philosophy is – you can only TAX what you can TRACK through the current system.
    As it stands currently, our largest & most profitable Ltd. Company’s are operating from offshore and can legally rort the tax system thru Trusts, or Working agreements they’ve put together in their Partners Domains that put the blinkers on the Tax system to charge them their fair share of taxation.
    It makes it virtually immpossible to answer the who profits “Quo Bono” question because its a legalized black-hole.
    Not only that, but during this same 2009-2015 period, our Primary Utilities (SOE’s ) have been privatised with the Government(s) of the day and Commodyfied in the markets. Our Key Social Services – Health, Education, Welfare, Insurance ACC, Earthquake, Transportation – et al, have gone into a Corporatised black hole of Profit & Loss accounting forcing the tax dollar derived from the Middle Class to fund the lot.
    What do we do to rein in this Genocidal plot to suck our coffers dry by stealth & under handed legislative decree?
    If we do nothing, the damn Dam is going to break and was us off the planet quicker than Mother Nature will from Climate Disasters already visiting us at annual intervals that used to be considered 100-500 yr. Events…
    When Working Group after Working Group reports are rejected and stifled and the System remains blind and glued to Status Quo allegiance to the Market to cure this disease we’re enduring you begin to wonder who our leaders are representing…

  6. Doc, I don’t think going long is gonna be a wise move. Buy & Hold is the answer, not paper long positions in a flammable Market. Just sayin. Fiat Currency is what ties the market together. If the Monetary system dies, your market positions disappear at the same time… My Hand-saw will be worth a lot more than any piece of golden Market paper, when the proverbial hits the fan. Buy Toilet rolls and stock up!

    1. “when the proverbial hits the fan” gold will be the one thing that everyone will accept. But not pieces of paper with ” gold certificate ” printed on them. Not because of anything special about gold itself, but so many people will revert to it’s traditional and historic function that it will work as if it had some magical quality.
      D J S

  7. Further to my first comment – you are in good company Mike. Jacinda and crew are utterly ignorant of macroeconomics. Trying to run a surplus when there is so much to do is truly criminal. Labour should be using its fiscal powers to spend and bring resources into use to solve the many huge social and economic (e.g. the gig economy) problems of NZ.

    Mind you, since Jacinda is a true blue disciple of Tony Blair (minus the warmongering thank heaven), it is not surprising that she has bought into all the neoliberal myths. This Labour Government is a complete waste of space. It is all mouth and no trousers, and full of the current love of identity politics. What a let down. Instead of 100 days of whirlwind action, we have had two years of idling in neutral.

    1. it not going to matter who is the government the middle class is finished the debt problem is so large the battle will be between the solvent and insolvent so far the insolvent are winning

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