Sooooo let’s talk about banning ‘Conversion Therapy’
Ministry of Health Advised No Ban on ‘Conversion Therapy’
Official advice to the Minister and Associate Minister of Health regarding ‘conversion therapy’ has revealed that a ban is not recommended.
Official Information Act requests show that in 2018, Associate Minister of Health and Green MP Julie Anne Genter was advised by the Ministry of Health:
“Due to the current protections that are in place, and the need to balance the rights of people with preventing harm, it is not recommended that a legislative ban of conversion therapy would be the most effective way to reduce the harm it causes…”
The ministerial advice also notes that people have the freedom to willingly engage in the practice, that protections already exist in the health sector, and that a ban “could be inconsistent” with the NZ Bill of Rights Act 1990 “which provides for rights of assembly, free speech and rights to freedom of religion”.
As far as I am concerned, anyone who believes in a magical flying invisible spell casting Wizard for their moral and ethical compass and uses that magical flying invisible spell casting Wizard to force a sexual orientation on another human being is fucking insane and incredibly damaging.
You can’t pray the gay ghosts away and anyone suggesting otherwise is a demented clown.
However, our own Ministry of Health questioned banning gay conversion therapy and that needs to be acknowledged and understood more because they claim criminalising this would be more detrimental.
I don’t think anyone should be able to charge money for Gay Conversion Therapy because surely it breaches Consumer rights and fair trade practices (but then again so would Tarot card readings) and I don’t think anyone under the age of 18 should be able to consent to these things.
B-U-T
Are we saying an adult who chooses to pray the Gay away is not allowed to?
Now again, I think that person needs to seek actual counselling and real therapy to come to peace with who they are, but are we going to criminalise if people choose this hocus pocus?
Who will we be arresting here? The religious quack selling this nonsense or the person who chooses to seek it out?
Again.
I think Gay Conversion Therapy is crazy and harmful and stupid, but I think there are an enormous amount of things that are crazy, harmful and stupid that we don’t criminalise.
What I would hate to see is some religious nutter actively attempting to breach the law and becoming a martyr for this stupid cause.
Let’s at least agree on this, if you want to arrest anyone, let it be the person selling this bullshit Gay Conversion service, please don’t in a moment of wok overkill criminalise the confused people seeking it.
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Well, that’s interesting. I had no idea that the NZ Health Service considers they have adequate protections against gay conversion therapy.
Most of the opposition to these bills, currently sweeping around the western world, are objections to tagging banning “gender identity therapy” onto bills banning gay conversion therapy. They make it seem like the 2 things are the same, and they are not.
Proposed bans on “gender identity therapy” generally aim to only accept a “affirmative” approach to anyone who says their gender identity does not match the “gender they were assigned at birth”.
A gay man explains why this is a problem:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYboWXveGM8
And Kiwi ex-pat Holly Lawford Smith, now at a Melbourne Uni, explains in more detail, the problems with such Bills – it’s now law in Victoria in Aussie. The Victoria Act, actually is homophobic, because it has changed the definition of gay/lesbian, from same-sex attracted, to same gender attracted (whatever that means, but could include males who claim to be women, are attracted to women, and are thus lesbians).
https://www.feministcurrent.com/2020/12/18/an-australian-bill-criminalizing-conversion-therapy-may-harm-kids-deemed-trans-as-well-as-those-who-treat-them/
Yes. When the petition was presented to Parliament the women’s sex-based rights organisation Speark Up For Women made a strong case that there is a substancial difference between conversion therapy applied to sexual orientation and to gender identity. For children and young people in particular banning conversion therapy would mean that counsellors and clinicians could not attempt to address the reasons a young person feels they are ‘in the wrong body’ or are the opposite sex. The Justice Select Committee addressing the petition said that “A ban on conversion therapy should not prevent anyone from seeking or providing such advice. This could be managed by clearly defining “conversion therapy” and “counselling” and also “However, we believe more work needs to be done before any decision is taken to ban it. In particular, thought must be given to how to define conversion therapy, who the ban would apply to, and how to ensure that rights relating to freedom of expression and religion were maintained.’ https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/sc/reports/document/SCR_9275/petition-of-max-tweedie-for-young-labour-and-the-young
I am all for conversion therapy.
I believe it should be compulsory for National Party voters and ACT voters to be converted to the philosophy of Anarcho-Socialism.
Mormons, Seventh Day Adventists, radical Muslims, fundamentalist Christians and zionist jews should all be forcibly converted into followers of the Great, heavenly red bellied fire serpent( not to be confused with those heretical scum who worship the Great, Golden Ocean dragon).
I don’t believe in a “magical flying invisible spell casting Wizard for their moral and ethical compass” and from what I have seen so called religious people offering Gay conversion therapy is just another scam.
Having said that for the last 45 years we have been subject to a campaign to normalize same sex relationships even though there is evidence to suggest that “Adults identifying as lesbian, gay, bisexual or ‘other’ are at increased risk of poor mental health and low wellbeing compared to those identifying as heterosexual.” https://bmcpsychiatry.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12888-016-0767-z
Obviously morality is a choice we should all be free to make and since I expect people to respect my right to worship or not (provided it does no harm to other people) I need to allow others to make their own choice regarding moral matters. While you are quick to condemn religious people the essence of real Christianity is Christ in us, being transformed & living a new life that does not walk according to the flesh. The next action for converted people is being willing to share with those who are interested how they can live a better life. Any sort of state control in forbidding or establishing religion is totally wrong (on reflection I think most of us could agree that certain ideas need control although existing laws should suffice) but scripture is also clear about not judging or condemning others so speaking the truth in love should be evident in all we do.
I
The law comes down full force on those who harm others through exorcism rituals (particularly if those involved are brown), the law operates the same way on those pushing fake medical treatments or conversely on parents withholding life-saving treatment from their children (but not so much if they are middle class and white parents, in those cases media celebrities such as Paul Holmes will champion the parent’s case). This conversion pseudo therapy should be considered in exactly the same manner.
If harm is the outcome, prosecute.
“I expect people to respect my right to worship or not (provided it does no harm to other people)”
No one attacked your right to worship anything. They just mocked your choice.
Religion doesn’t get a free pass from criticism.
Not in this country, every day I see nasty comments about faith. Like non stop actually. No one is stopping you.
The trouble with this Bill is it may criminalise counsellors merely talking things through with clients. Some people from faith homes are depressed about being gay, they are entitled to ask for help with that. In fact anyone over 18 can consult and talk about whatever they like with a health practitioner.
Well Martyn it looks like your opinions are being ignored. Whatever the rights and wrongs it seems woke politics are front and centre of the government (and the Greens agenda) and meaningful change and policies to address homelessness, inequality, housing, climate change etc are in the too hard basket for now. I’m sure this is what the masses were looking for when they cast their votes last year – sarcasm intended!