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  1. Thanks for the details that provide the evidence to show the police cover-up. There are more than a few NZ cases where police have convicted innocent people who at great expense have managed to clear themselves in court yet we never see the police staff involved in providing false evidence ever get prosecuted, we also don’t know how many people are wrongly convicted yet they don’t have the means to get justice through what is mistakenly called a justice system. As you say we need a completely independent system to investigate any complaints about the police although as you describe a large part of the population will not accept any complaints against the police as it will destroy the picture perfect world view they have where poor people are bad and rich people are good.

  2. Let me be the old biddy’s advocate. The Roastbusters rapes came out of a certain social environment in which alcohol is freely available and consumed without inhibition, where casual sexual encounters are the norm, and everyone (in this case the young men concerned) is encouraged to become a “winner” without undue regard to moral niceties. In other words, a typical neoliberal society operating under a typical neoliberal value system.
    If just one half of society (the old biddy would say the female half) opted out of this neoliberalism we would all be better off. But it is not going to happen that way.
    As I have just argued on “The Integrity Institute” in relation to the McSkimming case: “The psychology of the police officer is an interesting one. It is centered on rules which are taken as a given. There is not a lot of introspection or reflection on the justice or wisdom of those rules. If there was, the police officer would be at risk of failing in his or her given role. For the job, the most important rules are those enacted in law. There is little to suggest that in this case the top echelon of the police broke those rules, that is, breached the law. However the typical police officer is equally given to upholding the unwritten rules of society, and strange as it may seem to us, the woman in this case was seen to be the one breaking the new rules of the neoliberal social order. So the police hierarchy turned on her”.
    In the Roastbusters case I believe that there were clear breaches of the law. But the police did not see it that way. They saw young men playing hard by the rules of neoliberal society, and so they moved to protect them.
    Conclusion: You can’t confront corruption in the Police force without confronting the corruption of neoliberal society as a whole.

    1. The Christ’s sake, is nothing to do with neoliberalism. It’s young men taking advantage of naïve young women. It’s nothing much to do with the economic system, because under whatever you want to call non-neoliberal regimes the attitudes were much the same. Myself I never got quite so drunk is under the labour government of 1972 to ’75. And the attitude of young men then was even worse than it is today. So perhaps if the young men gave up on that, and everyone stopped blaming the victim, we’d all be a lot better off.

      1. Not all young men take advantage, and not all young women are naive. Young men who take advantage have been brought up in a certain moral environment, and young women who are “naive” (I assume that you categorize heavy drinking as naivety) likewise. I know that is a body of opinion that argues that liberalism has nothing to do with neoliberalism, that social liberalism has no connection to economic liberalism and so on, but it is a difficult case to argue, which is why we usually just have bald assertions like “The Christ’s sake, is nothing to do with neoliberalism”. If you deny that social conditioning has any impact on the sexual behaviour of young men (or for that matter older men) then I don’t know where that leaves us. Respectable society likes to deny any responsibility for the behaviour of individuals. It does not want to acknowledge that its values or lack of values might somehow be connected to the behaviour of its young people.

        1. I don’t deny that social conditioning has something to do with sexual behaviour. I don’t think I said that. But if you look at sexual behaviour over the years, possibly the worst sexual behaviour ever was in Victorian England which was supposed to be a bastion of morality. Where young men were brought up – in theory – to be honest faithful and true and not have sex outside of marriage. That actually was in the Boy Scout manual years ago I remember.
          It didn’t stop them from having sex outside of marriage. It didn’t stop them from seducing young women in the social classes below them. It didn’t stop the prostitution industry which was probably more active then than it is today. So whatever people’s sexual behaviour is and whatever it’s influenced by, I suspect that these days it’s simply much more out in the open than it used to be when people were allegedly much more moral. All I said was that in my youth in the 1960s and 70s, there were still women being taken advantage of, and probably in a worse way than they are today. Because people use to make all sorts of promises then – because of the social conditioning – which they probably don’t today.
          As Spike Milligan said albeit in the words of one of his characters “Tha’ll never stop fookin’ in Bradford.”

          1. The sort of problems which concern us here are affected by social and moral values (“belief systems”) and also by material social relations.
            As you point out, Victorian men were able to sexually exploit female domestic servants, factory workers and so on. At the same time, men from the laboring classes struggled to obtain the means to maintain a house, spouse and family, and so resorted to prostitution and similar kinds of sexual relations. There is an economic aspect to abortion as well. Women have aborted children who they could not afford to raise.
            The distinguishing characteristic of our present era is that through neoliberalism society has managed to escape the Victorian hypocrisy of condemning all unnatural social relations (sex as a commercial transaction, aborting of one’s unborn children) while continuing to foster the social and economic conditions which make them inevitable. Capitalist society in the neoliberal era has been able to escape the charge of hypocrisy only by renouncing moral values in general.
            I don’t know if you are correct to say that sexual immorality is less prevalent now than it was, and I am not sure if it matters whether or not that is the case. My own position is quite clear. Sound social and moral values dignify the human being, and social egalitarianism is both an essential element of a sound moral order and the condition for its full realization. A healthy society needs both sound moral values and social justice. At present capitalist society as a whole has neither.

      2. Ecclesiastes says “There is nothing new under the sun”. That is true of sex, and it is also true of economics.
        The “good old fashioned” economic liberalism of Victorian times had parallels to the neoliberalism of today. We prefix “liberalism” with “neo” to suggest that it is something wholly new, which it most definitely is not. The main difference is that in the nineteenth century the economic liberals tended to be moral conservatives, which was an intolerable contradiction, giving rise to the infamous Victorian hypocrisy.
        In our century social and economic liberalism sit side by side, epitomized by the extreme political and moral liberalism of the ACT party. The “gig economy” is the modern day counterpart of the Victorian “piece work” system of super-exploitation of labour.
        The ruling class is just as sexually debauched as it always has been, and it systematically sexually exploits young women from the lower classes just as it always has. Ask Jeffrey Epstein, Bill Clinton, Donald Trump, Andrew Windsor and Jevon McSkimming about that.
        “There is nothing new under the sun” or in the shadows, and in social terms “everything is connected”. Economic behaviour closely parallels sexual behaviour. In feudal times the serf served the lord of the manor for life, he could have no other lord, and marriage was binding for life. Now we have the gig economy, casual sexual relations, and no fault divorce. McSkimming was “Uber” (nice Teutonic connotations there) to Ms Z’s gig worker. Gross exploitation. On the one side cynical abuse. On the other side vain hopes to be cruelly dashed.
        Free love and free markets go together. That doesn’t mean that they are necessarily bad in themselves. They become bad when they are false and deceptive. They become bad when they are nothing but a cover for gross exploitation.

  3. Hey, weren’t there some belated arrests in 2020 over the Roastbusters case?

    No news since then. I’m sure there wasn’t any more undue Police interference involved.

  4. I can’t stand this few bad apples bullshit. It might be a few – more than everyone intimates I might say – that are doing the actual deeds, but everyone and his fucking dog covers up for them, whether it’s the police, all the church.

  5. In any organisation, the ‘few bad apples’ seem to always rise to the top, hence we hear more about them and feel there are more than there possibly are.
    Being a bad apple probably gives one certain skills which enable an accelerated rise in the ranks.

    It’s probably very hard not to get bad apples at the top because they are the first to tell you that they are the best candidate and that they know everything.

      1. Oh dear. Who appointed everyone in this CoC? Not Jacinda.
        The talent pool is extremely small and if you eliminate the really bad apples there’s almost no one left who’s qualified. You have to appoint someone.

        There are several who have decided they can’t stomach this govt. and took voluntary gardening leave then were replaced by CoC Yes/Men/Women. e.g. reserve bank.
        Got any more brainwaves, you two?

  6. I don’t think it is a few bad apples. The CID has always had a reputation for dodgy dealing, but now we hear that 120 front line staff are busy falsifying drink driving tests and that the top brass are involved in covering up the reprehensible actions of one of their own.

    I’ve gone on record here defending the NZ Police but these last couple of months have made me think that there is a broken culture in that organization that makes its way from the top all the way down to new recruits.

    And to be honest it should have been evident to me when the Deputy Police Commissioner praised Bruce Hutton’s “integrity beyond reproach” at his funeral how broken the NZ Police were. To praise a prick like Hutton spoke volumes about how they’d protect the old boys club

    1. An angry Bruce Hutton once told me that he had never fabricated evidence against a person who was not guilty as charged. Trouble is, he considered himself better qualified than a court of law to assess guilt or innocence. Then he considered it his duty to manufacture the evidence necessary to convince the court.

      1. And I think that sums up the CID in NZ. They make up their mind who the guilty person is (or in the case of Arthur Allen Thomas get public pressure to ‘solve it’), and then as you say construct the evidence.

        There are so many examples of it.

        Bruce Hutton was a piece of shit, but he was just one example. I’m very glad that we abolished the death penalty in NZ, not because of moral reasons, but because of people like Bruce Hutton.

        1. No, and neither did the two Corrections Officers who were present at the time. The more senior of the two (actually the one who had promised to “break” me in detention) would probably have given truthful evidence if asked because he was an old-school colonialist with his own sense of being an honorable person.

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