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  1. We should not underestimate Tamaki’s appeal.

    I’ve met guys who consider they’ve had their lives improved by Destiny. In one case, a man who’d been illiterate- basically able to transpose numbers from weighbridge scales, and not much more- learnt to read as part of reading the Bible in his group.

    A lot of them were getting to their mid 30s, and starting to veer away from some of the s**t that was fun in their younger days already. If we had a more functional socialist movement then they’d have been great recruits for that. But certainly, neoliberalism has nothing to offer these people.

  2. Elections are about personal predilictions
    For most abortion is low on the list of motivational drivers, they are indifferent.
    The coming election will be virtualy totaly honed on economics = how well am I surviving under Jacinda ?
    Will my life be better under the “other” outfit?

    Only those who are not finacially stressed have the option to vote for “wouldn’t in be nice” issues.
    The Green vote is founded on this group of afluent voters, potentialy they, the Greens, face a colapse next year as a consequence of the tight economic conditions.
    Abortion will only be mentioned in passing.

  3. No lets not have abortion as an election skewing arguement; but in the meantime life goes on and women have to deal with fertility, pregnancy, rape culture, sexism, pay equity and so on.

    I offer solidarity to women on a class left basis at any time, but perhaps some of the grey beard pundits should listen to what women have to say for a bit on this?

  4. The abortion debate is a distraction.

    What people do in the US, a completely different country with different constitutional arrangements and population is totally irrelevant to NZ. We are just hearing about it non stop because it is a button pushing issue that detracts from the fact the country is completely in the toilet and people are struggling hugely with no relief in site. Did anybody catch the economists prediction yesterday? that mortgage rates would go to 12% over the next 12 months? Probably not because of all the noise this issue is generating.

    It is a wholly orchestrated situation designed to detract. If anything occurs to change the status quo on abortion in NZ over the next 4 years I will eat my hat. NZers arent called the ‘passionless people’ for nothing despite identitarianism’s best efforts to divide and conquer, most people in NZ really believe in the doctrine of “Do what you want mate, just stay in your lane’. And abortion is quintessentially that – your decision is not going to affect me so have at it. Also clearly there is no political mileage in it except at the fringes.

    But Chris makes a great point, our pride in our country and our identity as Nzers has been tragically damaged by vitriolic culture wars and the undermining of our institutions by politico’s who are guided by self interest rather than nationhood.

    As others have said Luxon (the Fence Sitter in Chief) needs to do nothing in order to win as Labour will lose the election all by themselves. Another reason why Capt Underpants wont touch abortion with a bargepole.

    1. But can you believe Luxon? The man who said he had not been to church for ages? Giving the general impression that he is not overly religious?

      Well, it turns out that he belongs to a fundamentalist group called, “The Open Room”. They have no churches – they meet regularly, but only by renting empty town halls or gyms, etc. No churches at all.

      You see the deception? Hadn’t been to church for ages..

      Did he say how many religious meetings he had attended? No, not on your nelly.

      That is a half-truth = effective lie.
      Clearly, that man is a two-faced politician who cannot be trusted

  5. To me, it is an issue of due process. I do not feel as if though women should have to jump through hoops in order to get an abortion; simply that there should be reasonable regulations so that these women do not get hurt in the process of obtaining an abortion, and so they know, without a doubt, that there is more than adequate assistance available to them if it is required.

    1. Given Americas history around litigation for everything, women could well be sued for having a miscarriage.

      1. Bert In at least one Sth American country recently, a woman who miscarried has been charged with the criminal offence of procuring an abortion. Those of us, and we are not a few, who have experienced the anguish and the pain of miscarriages beyond our control, can only tremble in fear at these horrendous developments. Many miscarriages occur naturally for reasons not necessarily discernible to the medical specialists. To have these sorrows politicised or criminalised is wicked- and unnecessary.

        1. Appalling Applewood and my thoughts go out to you, as my wife suffered the same experience with her first pregnancy.

    2. Daniel Lang – that sounds far too sensible and caring. As Chris says the extremes appear with the suddeness that my work disappears off the screen when I inadvertently press the wrong key on the computer. Everything happens superfast these days – wait till we communicate directly from our ‘brains’ without any mediation at all.

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