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  1. +100 Good Post…the non-unionised should not get the gains made by those with the courage and sacrifice to be unionised

    …and shame on those unionised who have wrenched a new baby from its new Mother and separated them! …it is a crime against humanity

    …new Mothers need support and community, particularly if they are in danger

  2. There’s something goes wrong with humans when they are given power over other human beings. Maybe those who chose to be in the role of policing society are self selecting for the last people we would want to be in that role. This was the next article I looked at … https://www.rt.com/usa/462022-cops-threatened-kill-family-doll/
    It struck me that it is the same mentality in operation. The functionaries become a gang.
    D J S

    1. David Stone: “something goes wrong with humans when they are given power over other human beings.”

      It seems to me that the take-home lesson from history – most especially recent history – is that, given the right set of environmental conditions, we’re all capable of egregious behaviour towards other people. It is part of the human condition: we’re a groupish species, with all that that entails. It is societal mores and expectations and the rule of law that constrains us.

      With regard to Oranga Tamariki and the HB hospital case, it’s vitally important to remember that we do not have the full story. We know what has hit the headlines: it would be a mistake therefore to assume that we have a handle on what’s going on. See this:

      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/113569980/the-other-side-of-the-oranga-tamariki-baby-uplift-story

      “It struck me that it is the same mentality in operation. The functionaries become a gang.”

      I found the video of the attempted uplift a difficult watch, and – given the presence of cameras and the families’ challenge to the process – I think that some common sense could have prevailed earlier than it did. However: it doesn’t follow that the uplift attempt was the wrong thing: I don’t have enough information to be able to make that judgement; neither does anybody else commenting or posting here.

      We need to be very cautious about blaming OT staff for doing their job. It is a difficult one: none of us would have the stomach for it, I suspect. They don’t take only Maori babies, though it looks as if it’s disproportionately Maori babies. And nobody who’s read the awful child abuse stats and followed the news here over many, many years could be surprised at that.

      I’d add that, wrenching as it is to watch newborns being taken away, it’d be far, far worse in respect of older children.

  3. Agree with your point about ‘scabs’ Martyn, we don’t see those whinging about benefits to union members deciding to turn down the rises because the union achieved them! (that’s if the members vote for the latest offer). As they are anti-union, that would be the principled thing to do, surely? As for the issue of baby snatching, Beecroft is ensuring that will be examined carefully. But as one post has said already, government workers cannot reveal the problems as they see them. My father worked in Child Welfare and commented on sympathetic media coverage of a mother complaining her 13 year had been removed from her care. That was because her care had involved putting her daughter on the game – could not be publicly revealed ofcourse. Bomber, where is your evidence that children in care fare much worse than children in their families?

    1. There was research published in April I think about the numbers of children in OT care who had been abused.

    2. Janio – Stuff 19/6/19.

      “If there is a risk – and that assertion is questionable – the state made a significant contribution to that risk in the first place. The state can hardly take the high moral ground, particularly when over 200 children in their custody were abused in six months.”

      The information has been around for at least a year about the abuse of children in care. Little of it is straightforward, unfortunately.

      There are often high need, often disturbed kids,over-worked social workers, not enough social workers, sometimes insufficiently supported foster parents, and people doing it just for the money.

  4. Big data, pre-crime, I’m wondering what surveillance powers they have – presumably (like WINZ): police records, bank accounts, intimate pictures and phone records – medical records and Facebook chat even. We need to know this.

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