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  1. Well that’s a fine article.

    The Trojan horse for issuing licenses for corporate offshore drilling. And they’ve ( more so under the neo liberals ) been playing this game for some time now,… chipping away at public opinion , and finally resorting to outright deceit…

    When our iron sands are valued at between 1 and 5 TRILLION dollars worth ( and that was almost a decade ago ) and licenses have actually been issued to mine them , when NZ company’s and foreign ones are lobbying and vying with each other for that position , … it was no small wonder that right back at the beginning of John Keys term as PM , – he and Gerry Brownlee were trying to influence public opinion about mining in our National Parks and beaches…

    Thankfully , – like the TTPA – public opinion squashed that flat and dead in the water.

    It was obvious that they thought they could build on Clark’s attempts over the foreshore issue…

    We can see now just what so many of these govts have been attempting over the years. Incidentally ,… Pike River coal mine was intended as a source for high value coking coal among others in NZ as a way to supply a smelting process for those iron sand operations . And the same company ( Bathhurst ) had interests in Pike River as well as the Upper Big Branch mine holdings of Virginia , USA….

    Interestingly , the mining industry has been trying to encourage open cast mining in NZ because it is far cheaper , with less staff needed – and safer- which always appeals more to the public.

    And it is rather strange that the same company ( Upper Big Branch ) that experienced a coal mining explosion claiming the lives of 29 workers with two survivors ( same as with Pike River ) were keen to have been granted mining rights in our National Parks…

    Now I know this isn’t exactly about ‘ indigenous rights’ , – but it certainly does shed light on the motives regarding the foreshore…

    * PIKE RIVER: The Greatest Disgrace – Uncensored NZ Blog
    https://uncensored.co.nz/2016/12/08/pike-river-greatest-disgrace/

    * Murder at Pike River Mine – the Truth You Won’t Find in Mainstream …
    https://envirowatchrangitikei.wordpress.com/…/murder-at-pike-river-mine-the-truth-y…

    You start to be able to link the links and make a chain after you realize certain things going on in this country. Particularly when big bucks are concerned.

    1. The fore shore and sea bed shenanigans and excuses are insulting. Every time things like this come up immedatly the white burden is rolled out ie britian had to economically uplift the savage, France had a civilising mission, America has to police to world and now New Zealand has to protect the land from its own people? And its like get the fuck out of here with the burden eh.

      I actually went to helen clarks Auckland Town Hall meeting after conducting the tuhoe raids and of course I’m Tuhoe. I distictly remember a phrase she spoke after mocking people like me as terrorists. Clark said terrorism is adhorrent to her people, it wasnt the words that struct me, it was the applausethat struck me, fear infact. Fear of the people around me. So There I was in Auckland Town sorroubded by enemy. And these arent hypothetical feelings either. People went to jail so we shouldn’t have to think very hard how far New Zealanders are will to go to protect the white burden.

      1. Well , all I can say is Tina has raised a few ideas as to the motives of the likes of Key , Browlee and Clark,… and the galling thing is a lot of the wealth taken from those finite resources wouldn’t stay in the country if left up to that ilk.

        And our natural environment would be shredded.

        1. Its like who on gods green earth gave any of these guys permission to create pedophile and child traficking rings and call it whanua orange. If we can discard children so casually whats a chunk of land casually discarded. I mean I even have trouble convencing my own family to convert to solar or chuck in for a set of reusable jars for places like Bin Inn. So the enviromental dilemma is real.

          Enviroment and family is such a commitment now adays I’v almost had to shedule in two hrs a day of family time for two reasons 1) because I want them to have more vacation time every year and 2) I want them to have more vacation time. And I strongly suspect that you look favourably on more vacation time, who doesn’t?

          Just quite when we are supposed to start thinking about blowing stuff up is something im not quite sure about. But I do know fake news is apart of pop culture that promotes violence against woman, the enviroment and even parents, do any PR degree and basically all it is is fifuring out ways of making people throw tantrums so there is always conflict with commercialism. Radio New zealand certainly will ask these questions of MSM business models now that theyre rolling mike hosking in the ratings war so there is still a lot to play for.

          Surely no one more than mike hosking encaptulates more about what is wrong with New Zealand and in so few words he can capture the complex constellation of environment/politics/immirgration/culture and instantly show people the competing nature of profit so people cave and give in to hidden desire of your inner child. Its totally insidious

      2. Sam. I’m a white man and I don’t have any “white man’s guilt”. I have regrets about the colonial past and about how we are not resolving it. I have anger at acts like the Tuhoe raids and Clarks role. But please drop the white man guilt bit cos it goes nowhere constructive. I’d rather we paddled the same whaka for the benefit of all against power and injustice.

        1. Hi NICK. I mean the burden is just so in your face what with recidivism, labour and property laws. Its all changing. Pretty soon we will share the same repulseive attitude to words like white burden as I belive we share the same discuss for words like hittlers SS, British colonial forces and so on. I also think its true that citizens in western countries will hold similar opinions about US military history as some one in the middle east will have in the medium term ie no one likes paying extortion to the US military.

          TBH I have some sympathy for people like a 1999 helen clark fresh of an election victory. I can garrentee she didn’t go into that election saying I’ll confiscate the largest area of maori land for access reasons? Other than the people who live there no one goes to tuhoe, there arent any high value targets or what ever in the area. The only thing is for the government to look all tacticool and shit. People like you and I dont squabble over land, literally only treasury and deep state geniuses dream up these ludicrous words and ideas we some times see scattered on the front page od the NZ herald.

          I hope iv made sense here. I think I did. I think if I read over our comments again inmay find that we are in a wierd way thoroughly agreeing its just I may take a little longer to get to your position.

          1. Sam we probably agree on the unresolved issues caused by our colonial past and the ongoing distortion of opportunities and outcomes. Myself I get angry at my forebears who committed huge acts of injustice against each other in Europe. I am descended from proletarian unionists and wealthy land owners….I sit in terms of descent in both camps. Here in NZ I firmly believe that we need to recognise the past injustice in order to be one people. I’m certain that we will breed the difference between white and brown away but that is not enough. My wish for the Waitangi process is not to exalt weak willed reparations to a select few here and there. I would place equality of opportunity to all regardless of ancestry a greater goal that the Crown must adhere to in its role as Treaty partner. And I would honour tangata whenua as guardians of all toanga in a real sense of active guardianship with managerial and veto powers over this land. That means the Crown sharing title. I don’t think the current Crown and inheritors of the settler state would be happy with that.

        2. White mans guilt is a thing Nick. As is white male privilege. If you can’t acknowledge that without making it about you then you have a fair bit of work to do before you can get on the waka. (not whaka)

          1. Nobody is without sin Tina but by principle you don’t inherit it. You may however inherit the benefits of past sins and how you resolve that is another issue.

          2. But it does have biblical tones of destruction.

            For many people the destruction of the enviroment and economies and tightning living standards are having terrible consequences. So why does this mentality exist that the privilage must prevail? I just cant get to grips with this question because it is so dumb to think about how little humans are capable of co habitating. Its like why only one Noahs ark, why couldn’t there have been thousands who saw the flood coming, you know? Why wasnt more people smart enough to survive. But these same consequences keep poping up.

            Some times instead of trying to coherse and control attitudes towards the government, its instead good to let people critisise the government.

            Being captured by the magnificence of a political party is dangerous because you could end up with some one like trump so when some one says the crown is captured by race and privilage and all the bad things associated with warfare at that level I think is grounds for further discussion.

          3. Dunno about the Biblical stuff Sam, I’m not religious but it’s good illustrative language. I’m sorry to have to say that privilege will always be with us which is why we must always resist it. In this country everybody should get a fair suck on the sav. When I see environmental destruction and broken life’s I know instinctively that some other buggers taking too much. In NZ that is exemplified by National, neoliberalism, entrenched privilege.

  2. If you want to rant, I would have thought the National party and ACT would be a better target – 9 long years – still no seabed and foreshore and plenty of asset sales and record homelessness and poverty for Maori, who are worse off by any statistic. Key, can’t even by bothered to turn up for Waitangi day!

      1. OMG…I end up defending Helen. That’s a first. I really give no credibility to the concept that the Seabed issue was about oil and drilling. That’s conspiracy theory territory. Show me the evidence. Much as I saw her as a running dog roader for the neolib concensus I just don’t buy it.

        1. The govt could not carry out the licensing system without the Foreshore and Seabed being vested with the Crown. They handed the first licence out 4weeks after it was passed. Do you think that the govt developed the licensing system, found applicants, and negotiated terms with them over a 6 week (December to January) period?

          1. I’m inclined to agree.

            The term ‘ conspiracy theorist’ was actually coined by the CIA. It was called that to imply far fetched and improbable theory’s, and the reason was to deflect from those who were getting too close to the truth.

            Much of their operations rely on secrecy. Therefore a term that was invented that made a group or person look ridiculous was valuable to them.

            Any person with a modicum of experience dealing with people will soon let them know that many people are not what they seem at face value. Many are prone to deceit , half truths and bald faced denial of the facts and twisting of the truth.

            And they will do it while looking you straight in the face and without even batting an eyelid.

            The military thrives on that . So do many politicians. In short , – they are liars. Anyone who does not cover all bases leaving no stone unturned is naive and derelict in disclosing and revealing the truth and discovering the real motives for certain actions . No detective worth his or her salt would ever rule out any coincidental series of events as a possible alibi or evidence of a compelling motive.

            Criminals are convicted on circumstantial evidence.

            And circumstantial evidence is collated by observing all the data , the motives, words , presence, groups , colleagues , sequence of events , ‘co incidence’… and many more…

            And to discount the real guiding motives regarding the colossal profits to be made in offshore mining or mining in our National Parks is to be woefully naive on just how these people think and operate.

          2. Crown control over land gives them veto powers over what rivals may do. Some targets of interest considered threatening to New Zealand include TDB contributor Keith Locke, KimDotcom, Niki Harger, teachers, nurses ect. So not very threatening by my standards.

            Very simply if industrial powers have control over the spigot of industries then they do in fact have control. Even if the crown pushed for a full co governance model with maori the crown will still push for land control and thats a lever for regional control no one understands because we are not allowed to think about it.

          3. Tina have you got some background evidence supported and validated? As you tell it there sure is a dodgy smell here.

          4. AFAIK the immediate goal of the Foreshore and Seabed Confiscation Act was to secure the ability of marine farmers, like King Salmon, to continue running their highly-polluting, private businesses in conservation areas like the Marlborough Sounds. “Aunty” Helen knew that was how the Māori Land Court cases for traditional ownership came about. Yet still, to this day, she regurgitates the PR key messages that it was about Māori wanting to stop other kiwis going to the beach.

            As the foreshore and seabed issue flared up there were already dozens of proposals being discussed in the open for various kinds of seabed mining, leading to the campaign against ironsand mining in Whaingaroa, and the formation of Kiwis Against Seabed Mining (http://kasm.org.nz/inside-kasm/about/). To suggest Clark didn’t know about these seabed mining plans or understand the connection with the Foreshore and Seabed confiscation (need for Crown to own outright to issue mining licenses) is to accuse her of a level naivety that would uncharacteristic of her, and entirely unrealistic.

      2. If only. Key carries no guilt at all. With Key like all narcissists there is only him. We are immaterial, collateral. There’s no salvation for us in adopting the idea that he cared enough to feel guilt.

    1. Key did not apply for the UN Secretary General job. If he did, I would do the same thing.

  3. The Greens are not the problem. I fear the left left are fragmenting before the election and articles like this are going to hand another 3 years to National.

      1. If you can’t vote for the Greens Tina ,then Mana is the only game in town?

        1. By my guess about 200k people will think the Greens are the only game in town and about 20k people will think the same about Mana Movement. And I think if circumbstances allow they should grow more.

  4. On following what has occurred on both land and sea since the foreshore and seabed legislation – All New Zealanders in general should be angry at how greed has damaged our environment for $$$$ for the few ( most likely foreign). I would have preferred the foreshore and seabed remain in Maori hands over foreign greed.
    Interesting to note that recent translations (studies) of both the English and Maori versions of the Treaty of Waitangi – showed both parties agreed to ‘shared’ sovereignty …

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