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  1. Awesome stuff Keiran. This is why Trump is not the bogeyman, and Clinton the ascendant paragon of virtue destined to save us from the ruthless predations of a delusional xenophobe. They’re both awful, in equal measure.

    I pity the American voter.

  2. This is one of the most accurate, thoughtful, and well-written pieces I have encountered on TDB.

    Hilary Clinton is both a domestic criminal and an international criminal. The fact that she was ever suggested as a potential POTUS is a clear indication of how utterly rotten the US political process is.

    The fact that none of Hilary Clintons crimes have been exposed by NZ mainstream media clearly demonstrates how corrupt and rotten the NZ mainstream media is (no surprises there, of course, because the NZ mainstream media is owned by globalists and exploiters).

    Of course it will make little difference what ordinary people think -it was reported that only 14% of American voters actually support Hilary (or Hi-Liar, as I prefer to call her)- because who gets installed in the White House is not decided by any democratic process, and certainly not by the ballot box.

    The US war machine marches on, taking the world ever closer to annihilation. And with Hi-Liar in charge (pretty much a foregone conclusion) we should expect to witness both civil war in America and increased international conflict.

  3. Very good take down of Chris Trotter and his ‘lesser evil’ argument.
    Your argument seems to be that the US regime is ‘evil’ and both candidates are equally evil in pursuing its interests and so should be rejected.
    Would any candidate elected to office be able to resist this under the present system without also being a warmonger?
    I would say no. Sanders could not because he is a creature of the US political system. He endorsed Clinton after all.
    He could have rejected Clinton and stood as an independent but the lesser evil argument prevailed.
    The political system is so rigged by the capitalist ruling class that corporate power prevails whoever is selected to office. And that power is devoted to projecting US imperialist interests.
    I hope that the Sanders supporters who took him at his word that a ‘political revolution’ is needed now draw the correct conclusion that no good can come from changing that political system through its existing institutions.
    The US needs a Workers Party that can use the existing democratic institutions to rally the working majority to fight to defend democracy (Black Lives Matter is on the right track), defeat the US imperialist ruling class and advance the cause for socialist revolution to replace dying capitalism.

    1. Bernie shines amid the dark stars of bigotry and wall street warmongery.

      But Bernie is still a product of US exceptionalism and he pledges to work within that system – which may be realistic but will stave off real political change needed to protect the world and the US people from growing Fascism and poverty.

      Chris has spoken out on the bankers racket which is indeed brave and career limiting. He has the Clinton / Trump saga wrong. His black and white view IS ridiculous. One asks why he has gone down this path.

  4. Sorry, Kieran Kelly – I looked in the wrong place for the authorship of this excellent article. No offense intended.

  5. When the choice is to do a deal with Satan or with Lucifer either way you will get burned. Chris in his application of real politik fails to recognise this. To compound his error he asks the flocks silence and acquiescence to be demonstrated by the doing of good deeds under the umbrella of evil.

    Bad strategy methinks.

  6. Greetings Kieran. 🙂

    Just wow.

    Guess I need to thank Mr Trotter’s pitiful piece since it resulted in this tour de force.

    Roll on part 2. And please don’t feel you have to wait for another ignorant letdown to respond to.

    A comprehensive treatment of the Project For A New American Century would be most welcome, some day if you have time.

    Also, by writing at this level you make it just too hard for trolls to keep up, and hopefully they’ll stop bothering.

  7. “Polls clearly showed that Bernie Sanders would have been able to beat Trump overwhelmingly in the popular vote”

    Yep. I’ve calculated the monthly poll averages for one-on-one match-ups (Clinton vs Trump / Sanders vs Trump) from Real Clear Politics. Here are the stats:

    Calculated from Real Clear Politics
    Clinton vs Trump match-ups
    Sanders vs Trump match-ups
    Monthly Average Lead

    Month ……… Clinton Leads Trump ……… Sanders Leads Trump
    2016
    May …………………..C.. + 2…………………………………S.. + 10
    April ………………….C.. + 7…………………………………S.. + 14
    March ……………….C.. + 10……………………………….S.. + 17
    February ………….C.. + 4………………………………….S.. + 8
    January …………….C.. + 3………………………………….S.. + 15

    Sanders had far greater cross-over appeal – able to attract significantly more Independent and erstwhile Republican voters than Hillary, while at the same time maintaining the allegiance of the vast majority of Clinton Democrats.

    Looking forward, I think one of the key problems with Chris Trotter’s argument is his remarkably naïve belief that Sanders has somehow tied a Clinton presidency to his agenda ( Trotter: “Like Wendy reattaching Peter Pan’s shadow, Bernie fastened Hillary to the Democratic Party platform with chains of rhetorical steel. The revolution would go on.”) and that therefore (to quote Chris again): “If Hillary wins … then the United States will begin the long, slow process of leading the world away from the self-destructive shibboleths of neoliberalism”

    Now, that really IS Peter Pan Fantasy-Land, Chris.

    1. Useful stats Swordfish. 🙂

      Would seem to show that the public had already decided who they trusted more, even before the MSM decided to admit Sanders’ campaign existed.

      I understand that Sanders recently left the Democratic party, having done what he promised to do by endorsing Clinton when she ‘won’ the primary. Presumably he is now free to do something he would have been able to plan for ever since he realised the primary result was predetermined.

      Kieran has indicated that part 2 will include explaining why ‘chains of rhetorical steel’ (perhaps of the Todd McClay kind) are more like rhetorical butter which can be broken at any time. Knowing that being reminded what it said it would do tends not to stop our government from doing whatever it wants and to hell with promises, it’s likely that the same would apply to a Clinton government and that Sanders knows it.

      He has 2-3 months in which to ‘make his move’ and if we like we can have fun speculating what it might be. The longer he waits (up to a point) the more damage the top two can do to each other – after all, they both have so much material available.

  8. A good summary of the dismal failings of Chris Trotters post and the hypocrisy and weakness of his argument for “compromise” if any revolution is to prevail.
    Unfortunately you didn’t touch on another example of the murder of innocents and destruction of a country resulting from U.S. regime change policies.
    The encouragement and funding of Nazi and Neo- fascist thugs to overthrow the democratically elected Ukrainian Government (albeit with a corrupt leader) to destabilize eastern Europe and encircle Russia with both NATO and U.S. military forces is yet another example of U.S. corporate sponsored militaristic imperialism.

  9. Hmm. A lot of people here are still smarting after being pilloried by Chris Trotter.

    His point was not that Hillary Clinton is as true as the North Star, like you lot, but, after decades of watching progressives take unerring aim at their own feet, that sometimes the goals are worthy of informed compromise.

    The art of the possible.

    Need I remind you of the ill-fated, apocryphal William Jay.

    (Here lies the body of William Jay
    Who died maintaining his right of way –
    He was right, dead right, as he sped along,
    But he’s just as dead as if he were wrong.”

    “You know”, as my old Granddad didn’t use to say, “that’s not only true about cars and some idiot, but it is also true about life and how it is lived”.

    Actually, I may have stolen that one from Melania.

    His point was that, good as it feels at the raging moment, angry, self-righteous rants and a few dollars (not sure how many these days) will get you a cup of good coffee in Wellington and slop in Auckland.

    (That was, perhaps also Chris’ point).

    Accusations that Chris is some sort of Right-wing waste of space is utter nonsense and entirely self defeating, (as Trotsky scrawled out in his own blood on the living-room floor). You may not like the message, used as you are to the black and white company of the equally enraged and Trolls, but when did you last do anything constructive? When did you last wonder if there are any flaws in your own air -tight reasoning.

    The truth is inevitably complex and the answers, should there be any, are likely to be so nuanced that you might need to use the back of the T-shirt too.

    Hillary is a good example. As you all know very well, the polemic reasoning of Kieran Kelly is only part of the story. Decisions, good or bad, are made by powerful actors without the benefit of hindsight. Some decisions are self-serving, may are based on mistaken assumptions, some are altruistic (sort of) but they all have in common that the deciders have nothing but best-guesses of outcomes to guide them.

    Armed, therefore, with a partial array of facts and guided by a blurred vision of eventual outcomes, my guess is that Clinton will be way better for the world that Trump. Not perfect, probably, maybe not even very good, but sufficiently better to consider the Baying Bernie or Busters to be little short of traitors to progressive politics.

    1. Well said, Nick.

      If the method for selecting Clinton was flawed,. then that should be addressed. But undermining her chances and allowing Trump to slip through to the White House would be the worst possible outcome.

      The man is mad.

    2. It is never more of the same, It usually gets better or worse.

      More of the same will be worse as the hegemony and war expand.

      If you are satisfied then say so.

      Opposition allows change and often motivates change.

    3. Nine times out of ten I agree wholeheartedly with Chris Trotter. This is one instance when I don’t. (I also believe his bizarre compulsion to write political limericks is slightly disturbing, but that’s neither here nor there.)

      If you vote for a candidate, you share responsibility for that candidate coming to power. You, through your participation in the electoral process, contribute to their ascendance. (Are you responsible for what they do while in office? Not really, but I’m convinced there are those who voted for John Key who now believe it was a Faustian pact and are probably feeling just a little guilty.) Given what I know about Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump both, I could not, in good conscience, vote for either one of them. Moreover, claiming that Donald Trump is the Anti-Christ, while simultaneously playing down Hillary’s track record of political expediency and continued preference for the most incendiary course of action available, is disingenuous at best.

      I don’t believe it’s as complicated as people like to make out. To my mind, it’s relatively simple. They’re both wholly awful people. One’s a narcissistic blow-hard with the temperament of a petulant child, and the other’s a manipulative, self-serving corporate shill whose recipe for global harmony appears to consist of war, war and yet more war. You can immerse your genitals in a cauldron of boiling oil, or you can chew on a bucket full of broken glass and used syringes. Or… you can opt for something altogether different.

      And for anyone who hasn’t yet seen it, here’s Abby Martin tearing strips off Hillary Clinton.

      https://youtu.be/PV_PLCC6jeI

      1. Portentous music does not a coherent critique make. I’ve always quite liked Abbey: she is a bit of a humourless John Oliver, but she’s on a bit of a weak one here.

  10. Excellent piece.

    Accepting the “lesser evil” has got us to the stage where we only have a choice of evils!

  11. I’m a little suprised that so many seem to be sucked in by Trump’s racist, misogynistic, jingoistic demagoguery. I thought we were above that sort of silliness. I guess not!

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