GUEST BLOG: John Luxton – Crikey New Zealand, we might have ourselves a problem and it’s a doozy.
I felt compelled to write this after an encounter I had with a prospective client. In the interests of full disclosure, this was a person previously unknown to me who had received an edm from me regarding financial health as a factor in SME success.
His emailed responses to me were as follows –
first email – a very unflattering photo of Jacinda Ardern with the comment “tell that to this witch”.*
I enquired if he would like a chat anyway, even though I don’t share his exact views about Jacinda.
second email – If you were FORCED to take the FAKE VAX — You now ether have VIDs (AIDs) — Or are developing VIDs You can thank Jacinda ARDERN for you early death – and suffering over the next few years
We all tried to warn you.. BUT you would not listen
Watch this — This was information that those of us that were paying attention was available in Jan 2020.. And now confirmed
I asked why we are discussing vax and observed that he appeared to be quite het up about the subject
third email – Because Jacinda ARDERN has MURDERED – 65% of New Zealand With a SLOW kill bio weapon.. – by 2030 most people that took it will be dead
I hope you didn’t take it..
Now, I’m not sharing this encounter to mock or denigrate this chap. I’m sharing it because we have some uncomfortable truths to face in New Zealand.
Social cohesion is being broken down by the day and radicalism is becoming more and more mainstream. Just think about this. I wasn’t delving into the seedy, dark recesses of the internet, let alone 4Chan or 8Chan or Redditt or any of the places where conspiracy lives and thrives.
I had identified this chap’s business as being “in the sweet spot” for the sorts of services I provide. Absolutely mainstream and yet this business owner’s head was in this dismal place.
I can’t show you, but I can describe that in the original form, his responses were in an enormous font, bold and bright blue. My immediate concern was that he was having some kind of an episode and I am currently pondering trying to call him to see if he is ok, but have some reluctance to engage in that way.
Here’s what I want us to think and talk about. Without knowing his exact circumstances, I’m assuming that as a business owner of what appears to be a reasonable-sized manufacturing business, he has staff and quite likely a family.
What must it be like for a wife, children and staff of someone so clearly not quite right? Before anyone gets defensive, I am not engaging in a vaccination debate. Everyone is entitled to their views and the people who know me know that this is an area I am pretty conformist.
But, the deranged and obsessive thing is incredibly toxic and can actually be quite frightening up close and personal. I know, because I have some of it quite close to me and I have had to learn not to engage in the battle because no good can come of it.
My opinion is never going to convince someone with strident views. All that this leads to is escalation and falling out and in a family context, that is a terrible shame and can create rifts that never heal.
This fringe thinking is much more prevalent than you might think and I have yet to meet anyone who has the right answer for how we should behave with people like this.
The business community has traditionally been conservative but mainstream in most respects. But even around where I live and work, there are endless billboards on farmer’s properties and in people’s own front yards sending vitriolic messages to others, whether the old government or the new one.
As a community, we have got to find a way of putting our arms around everyone, despite who these fringe types are presenting themselves as and make them feel like we are all part of the same society.
This issue is pressing because alongside the old chestnuts of vaccination, 3 Waters, He Puapua, the Maori Health Authority and let’s not forget cycleways and road cones, we now have a government hell-bent on policies that they may believe in all sincerity are for the best for the country but are at great risk of creating some deeper social divisions that will not be easily repaired.
This is not a political message. Whether I agree with the government or not, I do care deeply about the country I belong to and it tears me up to see us fracturing and atomising as a cohesive social unit.
Unless we can find a way to heal some of the rifts, we are going to be in trouble as a society and given the challenges we face globally over the next while, we had better have each other’s backs or we will be a very nasty and dangerous place.
The only piece of advice I have heard that seems to have any credibility around dealing with people with “out there” beliefs is not to challenge them directly, or try and change their mind with “facts” because generally they are too far down the rabbit hole to see your “facts” as propaganda pushed on you by the corrupt mainstream media. (I know, just breathe.)
What appears to be effective is behaving as might be expected in any polite society. Listen attentively, ask questions that are relevant and give due consideration to the answers. We have got to demonstrate to these people that we don’t think they are crackpots or we alienate and lose them.
I have been sorely tempted to have blazing rows, sneer at their idiocy and block them out, but the fact remains, these fringe things are like a cancer. They are growing and metastasising daily and we can’t afford to have such a divided society.
This is a serious plea to decent, thoughtful and compassionate people everywhere. Put some thought into how we can decompress the dialogue, engage civilly with people of all persuasions and knit things back together again. If we don’t, we are in for a world of hurt.
John Luxton – I’m a 62 year old white male, living and working in a privileged position, with own home, boutique business advisory and happy family. I come from a true blue dairy farming background but from my first ever vote (Values), have been a bit of a lefty. The longer I live and the more unfairness I see in the world, the more lefty I become. I’m sick to fucking death of neo-liberal economics and I find this government to be almost comically evil. www.regenerationhq.co.nz
That businessman expects half his customers to be dead by 2030 so feels no need of your business services.
The first thing we can do is, as you say, not confront them but hope they’ll become exhausted by their feelings and come right.
The second thing we can do is look after our own small corner (our family and community) and our health and hope we survive till then. That might convince him that we haven’t been harmed too badly, if we get past 2030 and haven’t popped our clogs.
I know what you mean. If they hear you have some kind of health problem they immed. ask if it was brought on by the vaccine. It pays to remember when your symptoms first showed up so you can put their minds at rest. However I doubt they take it in, they don’t want to.
If on the other hand, if it’s them who develop a health concern, that’s just normal aging but the hospitals are full, with us vaccinated people and they can’t get seen to! So, still our fault and Jacinda’s. Don’t forget her.
You do wonder, often, how they got to be so old and still be so stupid. Possibly they’ve been down their rabbit hole for decades and have missed a lot of growing up.
I heard an informed friend blaming Jacinda for much of the shock effects arising from the various systems such as isolating areas.
From orbital panda below:
3. Acknowledge how difficult and isolating the lockdowns were.
But add to that the huge loss of income to small businesses and to poor families and extra pressures that was extended longer than perhaps need be.
Also the lack of threat of large fines or seizure of property to rebel groups including churches if they went against requirements. In Auckland the losses to all because of one of the Pacific Island churches refusing to obey requirements from the state and putting their own faith-based prayers etc in place, was immense.
Being rational we cannot blame Jacinda for everything. She had some doozy Labour people behind her, and did she have any leverage on them to get what she wanted? Then there are the administrators brought up in special boot camps for go-getters to learn everything but the ability to be wise, thoughtful for people and smart at the same time.
I think the song for this is Pressure by Billy Joel. If people affected by lockdowns etc felt like this it would be understandable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAq3z-Zlink
I wonder if it’s 65% of the population or 65% of the population that was vaccinated? I wonder what determines how some of the vaccinated survive? Being kind perhaps?
It can be easy to mock these people but then we treat those who believe there is an all powerful being (living in the sky mind you) testing us and doing all sorts of shit that just ain’t right, as perfectly “normal” folk. Each to their own I guess.
Great thoughts there on my specialist topic. Finally someone addresses the elephant in the room. We have a massive problem Houston.
I listened to a 16 year old telling me Ashley Bloomfield was an idiot.
Sadly some people will never mentally recover from the mandates. The social cost of the mandates was massive and never recognised.
1. Acknowledge the isolating effect on those who decided not to take the vaccine. The hatred and vitriol directed at their decision.
2. Acknowledge their concerns around rushed science, lack of research etc
3. Acknowledge how difficult and isolating the lockdowns were.
4. Acknowledge the misinformation that was spread out there about them. We were told incorrectly that they were 20X more likely to infect grandma. Then it was 6X more likely. Who knows the true figure.
5.Acknowlege the problems with our response. We didnt even know if a mask did any good initially.
6. Acknowlege their concerns around forces or evil and money making agendas from the big unknown identities.
I could go on for another 20 “acknowledges”.
Was $60 Billion worth it as well as the social division and mental harm? Sadly in thoughtful reflection in my view-not really. But thats hind sight. Labour tried to do the right thing.
The bigger picture. Education.
Lets look at charter schools very closely-is this developing a lot of kids who can fix a car but who know jack shit about climate change, science, pollution, environmental issues, social science etc. Education should cover a holistic approach and give these kids a “broad and rounded” education.
Finally-a vaccination is to protect the receiver from severe infection. So if you are vaccinated you should have some protection. So relax and be comfortable in your informed choice. The person who doesn’t want to protect themselves makes their informed choice-don’t treat them like assholes please.
I guess it depends which vaccine you are talking about, but agree about informed choice especially as COVID is practically consigned to the mainstream. I would not say this person is making informed choices
I’ve no time for such lunatics in my life. I’m not a professional counsellor nor a psychologist nor a psychiatrist nor a deprogrammer of cult victims. It’s not worth the investment of my time and emotion.
Six years ago, I cut a very long-standing friend out of my life, not for his objections, until then relatively harmless, toward his personal vaccination and his ridiculous immersion in astrology, but when he very rapidly disappeared circa 2016-2018 way, way down the Q anon, Trumpism, and anti-vax drain hole, and it became utterly pointless to discuss with him the idiotic claims he made. I had until then maintained that friendship since meeting in 1968. It is not a surprise to me that he’s now ended up as a full-on flat-earther, shit posting that line of drivel alongside the rest of it on multiple media platforms.
Such is the destination that a lack of critical thinking and irrational belief systems can lead people toward. I include religion as being a fertile ground for desensitising critical thinking ability and actively training the mind to perform the mental gymnastics required to believe in nonsense.
I refuse to feel pressured to humour the konspiracy freaks, pretend all is OK, and/or feel guilt at not investing my patience in discussion and persuasion. I’ll initially attempt to present to them reliable sources and established facts and even explain the way science works and how it’s conclusions progress. If such information is just met with fingers in ears, then I’m out. I’ll keep an eye on their delusions (through media and their own messaging) and fact-check in my own time when the really ludicrous claims appear. Beyond and after that all they’ll get from me is silence, and should I be pushed, unashamed ridicule.
“Now, I’m not sharing this encounter to mock or denigrate this chap.”
Maybe you should be. God knows, I’ve talked to hundreds of these people – at least online, and they are immune to evidence. They “do their own research”, which means they seek out sources that confirm their biases. Changing these people’s minds can be done, but it is time-consuming and quite possibly very expensive. (There was an article in the British newspaper The Express about this, which seems to have disappeared behind a pay wall.) So what’s left? I think mockery is probably the only answer, it’s not going to affect their beliefs at all, but it makes me feel better.
Ages ago on Chris Trotter’s blog he started letting anti-vaxxers post their bullshit on his site – some eejit provided a list of “sources”. I spent about half an hour researching each and every one, and composing a shortish paragraph explaining why they were not valid sources. Chris was quite pleased, he said something like “This is the way free-speech works.” Except the guy just shrugged it off, because he k “new what he knew.” So are we wasting our time? I confess I haven’t got a clue as to what to do about these people.
ACC has so far paid out 9.6 million for vaccine injuries. A considerable number of claims have also been turned down. With figures like this it beggars belief that there are still people around who think the vaccines were safe.
FJ, are you referring only to Covid vaccines or vaccines more generally. It is clear that vaccines have saved millions of lives and massive morbidity to diseases that can be vaccinated against a number of health issues (measles, whooping cough, influenza, polio, pneumococcal disease, tetanus, meningococcal disease, hepatitis, mumps & chicken pox).
But, like any health decision it is up to you – if you choose not to vaccinate because of minimal adverse outcomes for the vast minority – entirely up to you. Do you also ignore the science on hygiene and other factors which are effectively out of sight?
Those that choose not to get vaccinated are in rhe same group who drink and drive or speed beat up their partners and children.
Basically they do not think the norms of civilization apply to them.
Nonsense, Trevor.
The make up of those that didn’t get vaccinated is as vastly diverse as the make up of those that did get vaccinated.
Vilifying and tarring them with the same brush was a Labour ploy that you seem to have fallen for.
“The make up of those that didn’t get vaccinated is vastly diverse” may be true although they all shared a common hatred of real evidence & love for feelings along with false information from unreliable sources.
Really good summary bonnie – suggest all take a copy for when the reply to an unreasoning whine is required once more.
Claiming they “all” shared a common hatred of real evidence is another falsehood perpetrated by Labour, Bonnie.
Was Jacinda your single source of truth?
‘John Luxton’, now this name piqued my interest, not in a good way either. As for the topic – people who have lost their minds – they can be found anywhere, they are not just people who chase bunnies.
Whether this has always been the case, I don’t know, but since 2021, it certainly has become more prominent, for sure. You are right, it is pointless trying to engage with them (short of trying to get to the bottom of what or whom has shaped their views). Thankfully, time reveals all.
My experience today. I have a retired woman neighbour who has been borrowing $40 from me every fortnight so she can manage some bills and then repaying it early next week. She now wants a bit longer to repay. The weather is awful today and I mentioned politics as being the same. The government is hopeless sort of thing – general. She responds that National is tidying up the mess that Labour left. And then mentions millions given/wasted on Maori and what do we get for it? I point out that Maori aren’t a business and we don’t expect a profit from money paid to them. But the depth of blatant ignorance in NZ/AO at all levels is horrific!
I finished by saying that retired people are slackers and why should they be paid for doing nothing, and should be putting themselves out to put back in, in some way. New idea for her and everyone else I think.
Smh the inevitable long term cost of the
mandates was always going to outweigh the very short term and mostly political benifit.
When you create two classes of people you cant expect the outcasts to forget and forgive especially when you push them into the arms of the real lunatics
“Smh the inevitable long term cost of the
mandates was always going to outweigh the very short term and mostly political benifit.
When you create two classes of people you cant expect the outcasts to forge”
All this is very true the rest is, at best, guesswork.
It’s in fact very difficult in this active life to listen news
on TV, therefore I simply use internet for that reason, and get the newest news.