GUEST BLOG: Hone Harawira: Hell hath no fury like a Christian spurned
I’ve been following the nasty reactions to Israel Folau’s comments about “gays going to hell” and I think it shows how much we’ve lost touch with our Pacific reality – fa’afafine and māhu are naturally accepted in a Pacific context, but in Australia and NZ we pass laws to accept the children of the rainbow and then crucify anyone who disagrees.
People have labelled Folau’s comments as “hate speech”. Tuariki Delamare, ex-minister of Immigration said Folau should be banned from coming here, the media here and across the ditch want him booted out of rugby, and the nutters have gone ballistic on social media.
The funny thing is we pride ourselves on being the heart of the Pacific, having the biggest Polynesian population in the world, and how many Pacific brothers we have playing in our sports teams – but it seems we simply haven’t noticed how deeply Christian are lot of them are.
And when I talk about Christianity, I’m not talking about the new version that changes every month as we add another letter to the LGBTQ parade, or the “enlightened” version that tries to be all things to all people at all times.
I’m talking about the old school Christianity that the missionaries brought into the Pacific 200 years ago. The fire and brimstone Christianity, the one that tells you the father rules and the mum serves the family, the one that helps elevate the King of Tonga to a level white New Zealand will simply never understand, the one that sees Pacific Island churches scattered all over Auckland, Wellington and other high Pacific population areas in the country, the faith that means so much to Sir Michael Jones, Jason Taumalolo, and the thousands of others sprinkled throughout our sports teams, our communities and even our families.
I mean did you really not see how Samoa and Tonga all kneeled down together to give thanks to the Lord for allowing them to play so ferociously against one another in the Rugby League World Cup last year? Or how many of them gather to pray with one another after a major rugby match?
Everybody respects their demonstration of faith, but it seems that no-one wants to acknowledge the reality that comes with that faith – that most of them are believers in an old world Christianity that they believe has served their nations well, their people and their families, and helps bind them together during the tough times – the dawn raids, the low wages, the job dismissals, the name mangling by sports commentators. And yet our Pacific brethren bear it all with a modesty and humility that is positively … Christian.
Seems it’s OK to believe in something as long as we don’t ever say it. Yeah I know. Sounds dumb but maybe that’s how we can pretend we’re all just a little bit closer to God than Israel Folau.
To Izzy – much love to you brother. Keep the faith, and may the trials and tribulations that you and Maria are going through right now help strengthen your love for one another. It may not be the world I subscribe to but I respect deeply your commitment to your faith and to your world.
To those of my whanau, my friends and others for whom Israel’s words may seem like life has no future, please understand this – your spiritual faith is based on the relationship you have with your own Gods. It is not determined by what Izzy might say, or me, or anyone else. Nor is it determined by what the “Bible” says either, for the Bible has been used to justify both the greatest acts of kindness and the greatest massacres in human history. Be comfortable with your own gods, be at peace with yourself, know that you are loved and treasured and feted for the special person that you are, and be assured that in the family of humanity you have a place equal to that of everyone else.
Ofa atu
Tautoko.
If this Hone was in evidence during the election campaign you would have romped in. I hate that a man is heaped with scorn for stating his beliefs and I find it troubling the amount of venom heaped on him by a section of society that is demanding tolerance. It appears to be the same venom heaped on women who are perceived not to want to allow trans women to access all the hard fought small gains that they have. I live in a free society, I believe that Israel is allowed to express whatever views he wants and I am equally entitled to disagree. But by making his livelihood conditional on him not expressing fairly typical Pacifica belief is racist and really immoral.
Actually, it’s holding believe like those stated by him that is immoral.
These muppets would follow the pattern of the wind if some powerful western religion told them to.
Racist comment
Lady boys dont go to hell. But comets do.
I used to agree with the idea that pacific peoples inherited the old school christian church from the missionaries but there has been a book written by Jay Ruka from Raglan that goes into the origins of christianity in New Zealand which has changed my mind. Apparently the religion never really took off in the Maori population until the bible was translated into Maori.
Most Europeans thought that Maori people would have to be ‘civilised’ and start behaving like Europeans before they could be proper Christians. It was a typically arrogant and also deluded view because as soon as the faith was stripped of european religious nonsense it took off in Maori culture – which was a far more spiritual culture than we can imagine today.
Given the agro that exists on the left toward Christianity I should make it clear I’m not a christian – just someone who read a book about NZ History that really intrigued me. The book is mostly known in Christian circles so I doubt anyone here has heard of it but it’s called Huia Come Home and is about trying to connect with the world view that early Maori Christians had – something that I read as being lost to modern Christians. It seems to be an important part of our history because of the profound changes that reading the bible bought about in Maori culture through the 1800s.
What’s clear is that it was christianity viewed through a Maori cultural lens, so quite different to the christianity visible today.
And yes, I know I’m talking about Maori culture not Pacifika culture but given that both of those cultures now exist in a post colonial setting I think it would take a fair amount of digging to be sure that hellfire and brimstone Palagis were really responsible for modern Pacifika culture.
Anyway, the last word should go to Michael Jones who seems to be the only person in all this who has read his bible properly, He was quoted in the Herald recently:
“I do know Israel and he’s a good man. He’s got a good heart and he’s got a strong faith. He’s a friend and so my heart goes out to him too at this time.
“At the same time, in terms of my faith, it’s very much a faith built on love and grace. There are members of my family in those communities and we love them… I’m sure Israel has that too because we come from diverse families.”
Amen 🙂
Yep, expose the hypocrisy 100%.
The Labourites and Greens love our Pacific Island brothers and sisters, until they open their mouths and say what they believe, then it’s like the liberal brigade have zero understanding of what culture means and believing non believers go to hell becomes hate speech.
Politicians haven’t twigged that the many clubs and groups they frequent and tick off (so convenient to have groups in one room to put on Facebook for photo opportunities) are not necessarily representative of all and the average person or voter who doesn’t have time to join all these networking and lobby groups.
Diverse views and opinions are all around, and not all are peace and light and happiness… many are actually frowned on in the west, from believing gays go to hell, to the caste system, arranged marriages, female infanticide, to the welfare system (free health, schooling, super and benefits) and what that means for people who never had one or never had to fight for one, to the treaty of Waitangi and what happens if people believe colonialism 2.0 is part of the natural order of history, minimum wages are too high …
Politicians need to understand that there’s friction between belief systems and any time you get a bunch of people with different non negotiable views you have to plan for what that will eventually mean, the power interests and what discourse will eventually dominate…
This incident was an easy one to stamp on because Folau is an easy target and has little power, but I find now politicians in power now, have little to say on actions of more powerful groups doing far worse.
But…what was the point of him saying it on social media…it would and did get a response? Why single out gays, when you say it here, all unbelievers are going to hell according to believers….so what’s new? That’s why that sector of the Christian community go around trying to save everybody. In my view its a very narrow world view, elitist even, but born out of the desire of churches and religions to control people, to get their tithes, to comfort the lost sheep of humanity…jo ahead whatever wogkd for you. but that’s just my view. What I wonder is what did he hope to accomplish? Was it to reaffirm his faith by having to defend it? Some time people need a bit of frisson. If so…he needs to wear the criticism. And it is ideas like these, that lead to gay bashing and hate. Just think…if you changed the word gay to something else, like ‘black’ or ‘white’ or ‘women’ or name one individual unbeliever that was going to hell. What does it accomplish? His post is basically pointless and mean.
Anyone who spreads hatred and intolerance, especially when based on a delusional fantasy, deserve all the scorn and backlash they get. IMO.
Mr Folau said what he believed.
What he said never came across as ‘hate speech’ (whatever that is).
Unless someone knows for sure that he has played god and punished or actively harmed a non-cis person there is no reason for him to lose his job/career.
To me, he actually put any punishment or penalty in god’s hands. For later, post mortem.
Pity the Outraged can’t do the same.
“Our spiritual faith is based on the relationship you have with your own Gods. It is not determined by what Izzy might say, or me, or anyone else. Nor is it determined by what the “Bible” says either.”
This statement assumes that fundamentalist religious people are happy to live and let live, just like gay people etc are. However, this is far from the truth. In Uganda, a mostly Catholic country, there have recently been attempts to have homosexual men put to death. In Iran and Iraq, gay people are harrassed and murdered. The same goes for a lot of countries around the world. I rarely meet a fundamentalist Christian who doesn’t want to the government to abide by the law as they believe it is spelled out in the Bible. I think gay people have every right to feel threatened by Israel Folau’s comments, and they would be naive not to take them seriously.
Mr Folau is guilty of accepting what he has been told without question. It is a simple way of dealing with a complex world.
I particularly like a quote from Maurice Gee’s “The Plumb Trilogy”
“Belief closes the mind, thought reaches no final conclusion. It looks forward, always, to new evidence.”
In my view, the instant you say “I believe” you have closed your mind to thinking for yourself.
I should resist the temptation to indulge you Hone, because I know it gives you the validation and attention you crave. Unfortunately, like you, I can’t help myself.
What Folau said about LGTBQI people was nasty and ignorant, and it makes him a bigot. Your full-throated defence of his comments makes you an arsehole and bigot too as far as I’m concerned. Maybe you should consider standing for the National Party at the next election because they’re a party that celebrates these kind of narrow-minded and hateful views.
And on the subject of Folau’s religious beliefs, he’s a Mormon. This joke of a religion was founded in the 1820’s by a bloke called Joseph Smith after he supposedly “discovered the word of God” inscribed on some silver tablets buried on a mountain (sort of a cross between Indiana Jones and Scientology). Once old Joseph’s religion was up and running successfully, God conveniently contacted again and told him to marry as many wives as possible – a mission he set about with great gusto. Smith ended up with about 40 wives, the youngest of whom were 12 years old. Who really sounds like a more probable candidate for Hell? A perfectly normal LGBTQI person going about their everyday lives without hurting others or an inveterate paedophile cult leader?
100% agree. Hone’s tolerance (and even advocacy) of intolerance is more at home on Whale Oil than TDB. IMO.
Excellent , Mr Harawira .
Very much spot on , and yes many Pacific Islanders have a deep faith , – and – unlike others who try to compromise what the Bible actually does say to fit in with current political trends , do not give ground and try to twist the clear meaning of the text.
And good on Mr Israel Folau as well.
Kid can play for the All Blacks.
All day.
Never stop.