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  1. I now see your name Chris. Appologises for calling you anonymous. But please do look at the energy issues.

    Hydrogen takes huge amounts of energy (think losses) to compres and transport. It is LOW energy density (certainly compared to oil, which is the ‘best’).

    These and other such alternatves are a FALSE prophets.

    Living sustainably is the ONLY solution long term. IMHO we have less than five years (my GUESS) but definitely less than 10-20 years to get the infrastructure in place and get used to ‘living within our energy needs’. And that’s assuming we don’t ruin the planet for humans to live on beforehand, we actually do ‘the right things’ and we DO NOT increase our ‘hydro-carbon usage’ each year which (c-19 aside) we have been.

    Every year wasted makes the transistion SO much harder than it needed to be !!!!

    1. The solution is a different lifestyle appropriate for the limitation our home/planet places upon us.
      People need to travel less and if they must then public transport (especially rail) is the only real solution.

      If politics and ‘head in the sand’ over rules the necessary, then electric vehicles buy us a tad more time. They maybe mitigate the problem by 25%. ‘Better to sell at a 25% loss than a 99% loss’.

      The electrical infrastrucure is there. The Hydrogen infrastructure is NOT and would cost probably billions$ to create.

      If you look at the energy/physics of these alternatives, MOST are nett negative energy and just pointless, ‘all things being equal’. Hydrogen is something like MINUS 25%, depending on assumptions. BUT NO ONE comes up with a POSITIVE nett energy figure. NO ONE.

  2. With the premise that fossil fuels are evil and on the way out.

    Why would the state invest tax payer dollars in an oil refinery?

    Surely the state would be in favour of closing this sunset infrastructure down?

    Would we not be better off to clean up the site (paid for by the current owners) build multiple state housing units there and let the plebs enjoy access to an unrivalled ocean beach?

    And if the North Port is going to replace Ports of Auckland, those 600 jobs would be easily absorbed in building and staffing the new port? Add the need to build the rail upgrade and staff the numerous trains bringing in 40ft boxes, One Tree Point and Ruakaka will be larger than Whangarei before long.

  3. As an addon to my previous comment. The refinery current owners may well see this as a similar situation as Cullen enacted Toll Holdings over KiwiRail. A crumbling, out of date bit of infrastructure to pass onto the state at top dollar.

  4. The oil companies (NZ Refining) through transfer pricing, and controlling retail and distribution, and the pipeline to Auckland! have made huge profits out of Marsden Pt since it was gifted to them under Rogernomics. Another neo liberal travesty of publicly owned and built infrastructure being gifted to private capital–just like power generation and supply under National.

    Fossil Fuel is a sunset industry as it should be, and the vast majority of product to be refined was imported already. As will the pre-refined fuels in the near future. If there was an immediate future for the refinery I would agree with Chris but there does not seem to be one. Hydrogen is not “there yet” and is indeed energy intensive, so clean up the site and repurpose it.

    1. Hydrogen will never ‘be there’….it may be used in desperation, but that is it’s ONLY use. Unless the laws Physics follows changes or a supply of freely available hydrogen is found (about as near of a certaintity as anything is, that it does not exist).

  5. Informed comment on here. I don’t like Oz having control of it, why not government – they then could try various options. Try looking ahead and allowing for stuff-ups.

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