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  1. If we amputate the Dairy Industry from the NZ economy, as you suggest, Martyn, what do propose we do to replace the billions in overseas funds it earns for the country every year? It is with those foreign currencies that we are able to purchase life-saving pharmaceuticals, a whole slew of consumer goods, as well, of course, as the state-of-the-art plant and machinery needed to set up the new industries you are describing.

    Without export-generated foreign currency, NZ will become utterly dependent on direct foreign investment – further exacerbating the loss of ownership and control of this country’s resources that you complain of.

    Methinks this equation is a tad more complex than it might, at first sight, appear.

    1. All very valid points of view Comrade Trotter, however – the vast vast vast vast vast vast vast majority of our dairy is shipped out as food filler milk powder and the moment the manufactured food industry can buy a cheaper synthetic version of that out dairy industry will implode.

      1. True that Dairy is sunset. Just the farmers are in deep denial. I have been eating plant based burger patties lately and they taste great when cooked properly, same texture as ground meat ones. Patties are in the works that include plant stem liquids that make a patty “bleed” on the grill like a slightly undercooked mince one. Even confirmed meat eaters will be into them.

        Why take up thousands of acres raising oppressed and sometimes abused cattle, kill them, dismember them and eat their corpses…why? Save our waterways, less emissions, free up land use and support our four legged friends.

        1. I’m not so sure the plant based pattie that I bought, there were 18 different ingredients, clearly this is not a natural product and there is very little regulation if any, on what ingredients can be used. On the whole there is currently limited research regarding the environmental impact, resource requirements, nutrient quality, nutrient density, toxicity and health consequences of these proteins.

        2. In the plant based pattie I bought there were 18 different ingredients, clearly this is not a natural product and there is very little regulation if any, on what ingredients can be used. On the whole there is currently limited research regarding the environmental impact, resource requirements, nutrient quality, nutrient density, toxicity and health consequences of these proteins.
          They are highly processed and are probably less environmentally friendly than actual meat.

          1. A quick web search suggests anything between 12 & 200 different cell types in a body so all the animal has done is combine the ingredients within its body compared to the food production process which starts with separate ingredients then combines them to achieve the desired result. You can have whatever view you like about this however a substantial number of people consider that the process of producing animal-based food is not desirable also.

      2. “I am not interested in feeding 50million offshore, I’m interested in being able to feed the 5million here!”
        As am I first and foremost – especially when the shit starts to hit the fan as it’s inevitably going to. That said, we also have a duty to support our Pacific neighbours and others that we’ve at least contributed to worsening their predicament.

        One of the requirements of the neoliberal managerialist agenda (that’s now pervasive in the “gummint and bureacratic ecosystem going forward” (rhubarb rhubarb rhubarb) is short term thinkery. Another of course is PR bullshit and spin – and I suspect the public are starting to tire of it.
        You might recall some years ago the proposal to introduce quotas in the media for indigenous music on commercial radio because musicians and artists struggled to be heard and seen. (Probably one of the first indicators that the meerkat the meerkat wasn’t working (“in that space, going forward, rhubarb rhubarb”)
        How about we introduce quotas for everything produced in lil ‘ole NuZull that punches above its weight.
        25% perhaps of all the logs from our forest sold and processed in NZ
        25% of anything from hort/agriculcha sold in NZ

        The short term thinkery and PR bullshit and spin necessary to keep the public oblivious to the consequences of meerkat failures has fucked up just about everything.
        Education, health, housing, media, immigration, worker exploitation, refugees, employment, Treaty Compliance, the digital divide, poviddy, etc etc etc

        (Btw, continue to be noice and koind to each other @ Martyn and @ Chris)

      3. Ekshly, make it 50% to recover the costs of cleaning up the environmental damage Tex Pay-ya is, and is increasingly being expected to pay for( as long as we continue to face Mecca and worship the neoliberal agenda.

    2. Everything’s a tad more complex than it might appear. That’s no problem though, we are trained to be in a mode where complexities and realities can go unrecognised, overlooked or discounted.

      Like the covid pandemic and the handling of it. Like the environmental crisis. There’ll always be politicians, (David Seymour anyone?) enthusiastically clutching and harnessing the possibilities of the shallowness.

    3. Something to remember – container shipping powered by bunker fuel will end soon (if we are going to survive). What can we export to the world via sailing ships? Nowhere near as much. Another adjustment to take on.

    1. In 2018, agriculture contributed around 5.65 percent to the GDP of New Zealand, 20.42 percent came from industry and 65.5 percent from the service sector. (statista.com)

  2. For these farmers to talk about theft is a fucken joke when many are sitting on stolen/confiscated Maori land. This old school group who were once a force to be reckoned with but in my view there days are numbered. Many NZers especially our younger generation are sick and tired of our farmers carry on. And our farmers are quick to put their hands out for tax payers money when we have floods, MPBovis and droughts. Our farmers are also quick to remind us they are the biggest GDP contributors forgetting the good has been outweighed with the bad as they are also the biggest polluters. Times are changing and as a country we also need to change and move with the times. Some of our old school farmers are also inherently racist and many NZers are fed up and sick of this too.

    1. Mind you, unlike in NZ, most governments worldwide protect their farmers with substantial (20 bill from federal government in the US) subsidies, guaranted prices, import restrictions etc.

    2. Mind you, unlike in NZ, most governments worldwide protect their farmers with substantial (20 bill from federal government in the US) subsidies, guaranted prices, import restrictions etc.

    3. 3 waters……..how many farmers are on town supply? Don’t have septic tanks? Hooked up to town wastewater. I’ll wait………

    4. You seem to bring racism in many of your replies . CB sums it up well while colonization was not just in some areas it is not the cause of all problems .

      1. Please can this be the end of that big babble of right-wing bullshit? I would like to see some balance, with left-wing views fairly represented.

    1. It draws a class line between corporate farmers who are rip, shit and bust capitalists, and the working farmers who share the interest of ordinary workers, to make the transition to a survivable future where nature and society are in harmony. Now all we need is plan to make it happen.

  3. An important driver in the groundswell thing in our rural province, here along with all the other circumstances, is that the Prime Minister is a woman. Relatively speaking, a young woman.

    She should be in the kitchen making scones. That final straw is a kick in the teeth, a slap in the face.

    1. Have you tried her scones Peter? Not everybody has the light hand to make a good scone PM Ardern probably is better at her difficult task which needs a judicious use of power and kneading. Don’t underestimate natural talent winning out when properly applied.

  4. NZ desperately needs to diversify from ‘growing cows’, but we seem to be largely stuck with the farming mentality. If farming is effectively regulated out (which I’m not advocating), something else needs to be regulated in, preferably something innovative with a future. Something that can be conducted anywhere in the country, not just in Auckland or other larger urban centres. The country needs an economic vision, rather than drifting along as seems to be happening, always back to farming as the default. Unfortunately it might already be too late with the downturn in educational performance, slashing the potential to seriously pivot.

  5. Giving up meat and dairy and replacing the natural with stuff concocted in a laboratory. People may feel as wary of that as they do of vaccinations. People might pay a premium for meat from happy cows killedin a way that they can accept.

    And farmers that hunker down and do their own thing and isolate themselves from their rural neighbours may be a big nuisance like the fellow who decided to play a trick on everyone and left his truck on a beach while he took his children to a hidden spot inland. The government needs to get a helping approach in the near future working with farmers as essential backbone to the country and rewarding them for making the necessary moves to meet business challenges, good environmental steps, animal and worker handling standards, and climate change adaptation. Or have continual problems like the guy or female could go gun crazy like David Gray in 1990 at Aramoana and get paranoid about his neighbours and shoot them and police. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramoana_massacre

    Or end up shooting at authority like Graham in 1940s when stressed and depressed by financial troubles.
    Through the late 1930s Graham maintained reasonably good relations with neighbours although he and his wife took little part in the district’s social life. By 1940 the Graham family was under severe financial pressure, having had cream condemned by the Westland Co-operative Dairy Company and having incurred debt from a venture into cattle breeding. William Jamieson, a neighbour and member of the dairy company’s board of directors, was aware of the decline in Graham’s cream, and noted a corresponding deterioration in Graham. ‘In himself he was different. I thought he might be slipping mentally’. Graham thought he was being persecuted by the police for not surrendering a requisitioned rifle, and by his neighbours, some of whom he believed were poisoning his cows. His wife shared his suspicions.https://teara.govt.nz/en/biographies/5g15/graham-eric-stanley-george
    Note ‘incurred debt’ – which has happened to farmers recently through some financial plans about interest swaps, or something, which have been a burden to some farmers. The small farmer can be led by the nose I think, like his bulls if he still uses them. The large ones have a raft of methods to turn a brighter penny.

  6. Trying to support government’s 3 waters, is falling into the same trap that the left did with Labour and Greens housing policy, Kiwibuild, Healthy homes, Zoning changes and bank rolling private developers with government funds. It was a dog from the beginning.

    Just mentioning Maori and low income, doesn’t make it better off for those groups, just look at what they did for housing to Maori and Low income groups (all worse off) and then duplicate that for water.

    Stop enabling, the governments stupid policies, Lefties.

    It is ok to support them, but still leave your critical faculties in place and when they hobble together their latest neoliberal, woke, plan, don’t endorse it!

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