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    1. +1
      and for those who want to make the world more dangerous by filling it with more guns.

      1. + 1 more on both issues.

        Hey how about a more inclusive society with parent education built in.

        The gun in hand brutalism and systematic whacking of kids go together along with many other narrow views. Lack of nurture does leave an indelible mark.

  1. It’s pretty clear that Labour started talking about the idea only to generate some interest amongst their ex-voters. Then they went ahead and supported more attacks on the poor with the next lot of welfare reforms introduced by The Natzi Party. So as great an idea the UBI is, it will never happen here. We need a New Labour Party! Then the current Labour tossers can cuddle up to donKEY all they want.

    1. One can’t deduce that from the curve for which you have provided a link. The maximum point may be at 5% of income while the finishing point may lie at 10%.

      1. A Laffer curve always starts at 0% and ends at 100%, it is defining feature without which it couldn’t be a Laffer curve and thus doesn’t need to be labelled.

  2. Tried to read all your bullshit but after a few inches of print I had so many objections that I gave up.

    A universal income in any other situation than simply giving some more discretionary dosh to those who have none, is just a a stalking horse for enthusiasts for a flat tax. A flat tax is a technique for building into the system a natural barrier to protect the uber-rich.

    The concept is underpinned by exactly the same irrational quasi-religious fervour about the invisible hand of the market that moved Milton Friedman, Ruth Richardson and all the rest of the bumper sticker economists, while allowing prices to rise to the level that makes the goods you claim to wish to distribute as far out of reach as they ever were. It is the same problem that makes the dreamed of paradise at the end of Kiwisaver so unrealistic.

    The only way to improve the lives of those who suffer from lack of access to opportunity, is simply to make the necessary parts of opportunity available with little or no gateway charging.

    Education, healthcare, electrical power, factual information, affordable shelter. When these necessary “options” are available to all, paid for by sensibly progressive, intelligently broad-based taxation, the discretionary income you aspire to disperse will naturally accrue.

    By their company ye shall know them. Beatings in schools, shoot-em-up Law & Order in our streets and… you, man.

    It is no surprise that the kinds of people around you start knee-jerk accusations of Communism, even if only you are smart enough to know it is nothing of the sort.

    It is also no surprise to read the cascade of sneering references to the Labour Party too ignorant to be allowed to handle your precious.

    1. .”A universal income in any other situation than simply giving some more discretionary dosh to those who have none, is just a a stalking horse for enthusiasts for a flat tax. A flat tax is a technique for building into the system a natural barrier to protect the uber-rich.”

      It should be pointed out that a flat tax coupled with a UBI provides us with the equivalent of a progressive tax, but one with a negative tax rate at the bottom end.

      1. No it doesn’t, Mikesh. It gives a negative rate at the bottom paid by those in the middle and leaves the wealthy slightly better off. (By how much depends on the flat tax level, and the UBI level).

        1. All I said was that it gave us the equivalent of a progressive tax. I did not say that those at the top would be better off, or worse off. That would depend on the amount of the UBI and percentage chosen for the flat tax.

  3. The UBI was promoted by Milton Friedman along with a flat tax.
    No doubt armed police and corporal punishment are part of that right wing flush.
    The UBI is a rightwing move that cannot become left wing unless it creates a living income for all guaranteed to maintain its buying power.
    This is an impossibility in the conditions of advanced, rotten, capitalist imperialism in the process of destroying humanity and along with it many other species.
    It’s what we real communists call a “reactionary utopia”.
    In the time we have left the working majority will have to move to expropriate private property and wealth and put it to use in whatever emergency actions are necessary to stop the rush to human extinction.

  4. I see no mention whatsoever of a Financial transaction tax.

    This tax would bring in massive amounts of money on transactions that attract no tax whatsoever at the present time.

    For example all these big corporations that currently doctor their books and send most of their money overseas due to doctored costs, ridiculous franchise fees etc would have to pay towards our social costs which they pay minimal money now.

    So there is an option that only the Greens are game to put on the plate while everyone else lets the corporates off the hook to salt their money away in trust funds and doctored costs.

    1. hi geoff, well said, all that time at university and no mention of a ftt, tobin or hone tax.
      maybe because universities are for the status quo.
      i understand we could be rid of gst and paye with a ftt.

  5. No one has mentioned it but your “imagine if we nationalised something like a large profitable company which exports a third of the world’s supplies of a particular product and used those profits to fund better public services? Obviously I can’t think of any such entity or industry at the present time so I’ll just have to Moove on…” is so wrong that it makes me question all your other information. NZ milk production is dominant in the export market but as a percent of total world production it is very small which is why the price has collapsed due to increased world wide production & Russian sanctions.
    You must have missed the disaster Muldoon caused to NZ if you think he understood only to borrow money for productive assets.
    Arming the police is a dumb idea, I can understand the desire for corporal punishment in schools by some people however I see it as admitting we are not smart enough to remedy behavioral problems by other means. In regards to parents with children that is more of a grey area as within a loving family some punishment could be appropriate. The basic income idea is worth considering though.

  6. I like the idea you offered that this is a dividend, and the better the economy does, the better the dividend to everyone.

    Now what I’d like to see (shades of Marilyn Waring) is a clincher answer on how we get the unpaid work recognised – for all those lovely people who moan on about the deserving and the undeserving.

    And length of ‘national service’ before you can draw that dividend – so new New Zealanders can enjoy the results of their contributions.

    Plus what has to happen to the vicious and floundering MSD and its satellites.

    This system will need to be administered by the sort of people who can run a successful co-op for many decades. (Think Mondragon in Basque Spain as a possible model – if it doesn’t stay ahead of market need and supply useful forward-directed education and training then it cannot serve its constituents.)

    We already have totally inept and inadequate vision for lifting the people as a whole, and the dead hand of ‘the market’ can’t supply. It was never meant to.

    Make sure that it is structured so EVERYONE is willingly in to raise the range, depth, scope and present-future ways we serve this nation, and the world, without ripping off the environment. Especially include the people who currently figure on the debit side of the ledger. (Oldies, stay at homes, non-mainstream, ‘unemployable’.)

    Can do?

  7. That was a truly terrible, rambling, incoherent article. We are all just a little bit dumber for having read it.

    Universal Basic Income is an idea who’s time has truly come. It deserves better treatment than this.

  8. This is the worst UBI article I’ve ever seen, and I’ve read plenty.

    “The catch is that a basic income system only works if you have a flat tax – but it’s not a low flat tax, like the ACT Party might advocate.”

    That’s nonsense. There are many ways to create and impliment a UBI – it doesn’t ‘only work’ if it also includes far right tax policies. If you want to argue for a far right UBI that will leave many in poverty, then go for it. But don’t try to argue it’s the only way – very Thatcher-ish.

    I prefer my UBI to also include additional benefits for some people. My UBI eliminates poverty instead of sustaining it. It would be done alongside a massive redistribution of resources away from the rich. And also a restructuring of the economy so that our trickle up (torrent up?) system no longer exists.

    I’m not surprised the author of this piece is involved with NZ First. More cops with guns and more smacking kids. Jeeze.

    1. It may be possible to couple a progressive tax with a UBI but there is no point, because one can obtain whatever degree of progressiveness one wants by combining a UBI with a flat tax, and choosing a suitable rate for the flat tax and a suitable amount of UBI. A flat tax has many benefits by dint of the fact that it simplifies the tax system, but it needs to be applied in conjunction with a UBI to provide the equivalent of a progressive tax.

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