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  1. Star wars has been entertaining fans for 50 years. In that time fans have discovered hidden messages and meaning which is designed to make the star wars universe transcend it’s box office takings immortalizing the story’s and characters for ever.

    Goerge Lucas himself and eventually Disney would try to guard the Star Wars franchise from IP theft untill YouTube creators eventually fed up with the direction and tone of watching a polyanna (Rey) do things that defied her characters upbringing. Like how does a character go from living in a world with no water to being able to swim and swim really well. For fans it’s really disturbing but for people who don’t watch star wars the message really hits.

    So content creators have taken the Star wars franchise and started doing there own fan made fictions of the franchise. There’s so many now Disney can’t keep up basically the fans took back the universe they had paid for over the years.

    So where does this leave democracy. Who will take it back?

  2. If Te Pati Maori become Kingmakers at the next election, it will be a Labour govt again. This is based on the fact they won’t work with ACT and that Hobson’s Pledge is a subsidiary of the National party and ACT. Hobson’s Pledge is a racist group whom don’t recognize the Treaty.

  3. ‘Democracy” in the Twenty-First Century offers electorates almost nothing in the way of alternative economic policies’

    Democracy is an illusion designed to pacify the…..middle and lower classes.

  4. Democracy is in danger when losers like this guy can somehow be funded often by right wing overseas interests and set up their own donation system and somehow change government policy so easily.

    Protest donations went into bank account of man with history of unpaid debt
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/464328/protest-donations-went-into-bank-account-of-man-with-history-of-unpaid-debt

    The scary thing is that this type of personality who the Greens by design and Labour by stupidity, seem to want to enable further in NZ both those living here and those with the same characteristics to reside here.

    On the other end of the spectrum we have the billionaires like Peter Thiel, NZ citizen and Trump supporters who appears not to believe in democracy and our governments are wooing into NZ as fast as they can.

    Politics seem more about gaining money for elites than policy for the public these days – thus unlikely people meet to work policy together and fund politicians to execute their policies to further help their financial interests. .

    NZ politicians love money – they have thrown out any criteria and just seem to free style immigration now -whether a money laundering, drug smuggler, ISIS bride or far right/PRC billionaires they want their money into NZ!!!

    1. More forests lost from NZ control – where are the angry elite Maori on this – still worrying about micro aggressions.

      More farms being sold to overseas buyers for forestry conversion
      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/the-country/news/more-farms-being-sold-to-overseas-buyers-for-forestry-conversion/N6MO445C4UOIQLYMUMFGT455SE/

      “The Overseas Investment Office has approved the sale of another six farms for conversion to forestry under the special forestry test.

      Introduced in 2018 to encourage more tree planting – farming groups have raised alarm at the rate of farms being sold through the special forestry test.”

      No push back from woke elites about rich listers views in NZ who get government favours but don’t seem to share the governments ‘public’ view on woman and Maori. Seem to remember at least one got millions in taxpayer funded favours and a fast track on his infrastructure.

      Company CEO criticised over ‘misogynistic’ comments about Nadia Lim
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/128542827/company-ceo-criticised-over-misogynistic-comments-about-nadia-lim

      Calls for Sleepyhead boycott after director shares ‘racist’ email
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/127955922/calls-for-sleepyhead-boycott-after-director-shares-racist-email

      1. SaveNZ – Maori dont/cant sell their forests. Maori elite cant sell the forests – its a democratic process and selling forests is an individual greedy (probably tory) thing. I cant recall any Maori forest being sold unless a bad investment. Turangitukia at Turangi may have lost part of their forest from bad investments back in early 2000’s.

  5. Over the last century or so tens of thousands of NZdrs – Maori European Asian & many other ethnicities – have died or suffered lifelong injuries in their defence of our country & its democratic principles.

    I doubt very much that any of these people or their descendants would put their lives on the line to defend co governance.

    1. They died to defend the private banking system whose raison d’etre is often substituted as …’democracy’.

  6. I am looking forward to seeing what my vote allocation will be dependant on race, age and gender when Labour get in next time. I reckon that my current 1 vote will go down to about 0.25 votes.

  7. Isn’t that what happens Bert when you have no mates (I mean friends) cause at the moment both Act and National are chasing the angry middle income and above Pakeha vote both male and female. And while they are busy trying to get more votes for their perspective parties they are tramping on the good race relations work done over many decades in our country, so in a sense we are going backwards.

    1. True that Covid. The down side is National may find a new political party to gift an electorate too. It may even be called the Hobsons Pledge party and I’m certain a cup of tea deal could be done.

  8. Treaty seems very clear one NZer one vote.

    Te Tiriti and democracy: The principle of equal representation
    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/ideasroom/te-tiriti-and-democracy-part-5

    The Maori party has been going for decades now, but consistently only gets 33% of the Maori party vote so that leaves 2/3 of Maori that don’t believe in The Maori Party policy as their preferred party to vote for.

    Woke, which seems to have encapsulated Labour policy get super angry when people don’t agree with their proposed race separatism policies for education, health, taxes and water.

    Elizabeth Rata: The Decolonisation of Education in New Zealand
    https://democracyproject.nz/2022/04/22/elizabeth-rata-the-decolonisation-of-education-in-new-zealand/

    Siouxsie Wiles and stuff found to have published misinformation about Professors Kendall Clements, Elizabeth Rata, Doug Elliffe, Garth Cooper, Robert Nola and John Werry
    https://www.reddit.com/r/ConservativeKiwi/comments/t8bddx/siouxsie_wiles_and_stuff_found_to_have_published/

    The curious thing about race and identity laws is that somehow Siouxsie Wiless (British born been in NZ for approx 8 Years who might be ok on Covid) but somehow gets in a position to advocate against leading Maori and other academics misleading information in the media about their own culture!

    “Several other academics have published an open response to the letter stating they categorically disagree with their views.

    Signatories include Shaun Hendy, Siouxsie Wiles, Andrew Sporle and Tara McAllister and a numer of others.”

    University academics’ claim mātauranga Māori ‘not science’ sparks controversy
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/te-manu-korihi/447898/university-academics-claim-matauranga-maori-not-science-sparks-controversy

    A media complaint on behalf of Professors Kendall Clements, Elizabeth Rata, Doug Elliffe, Garth Cooper, Robert Nola and John Werry. (One of the original seven signatories to the Listener letter, Professor Michael Corballis, has since died.) was upheld.
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/about-stuff/complaints-and-corrections/127946397/media-council-upholds-professors-complaint

    But the woke don’t care – current identity politics is a new form of cultural appropriation to gain more power to neoliberal interests and those that enable them.

    Many woke ‘communicators’ are key advisors to the Labour government and not censored on this type of bullying and misleading behaviour.

    This is why democracy is dying in NZ. People are allowed to say anything anymore without someone with more power undermining others and that is why the proposed ‘hate speech’ which seems to be more about removing freedom of speech is so dangerous.

  9. Chris,
    You enthusiastically joined in to scapegoating and casting ridiculous slurs onto mostly poor New Zealanders during the mandate protest. If there is no democracy for all, there is no democracy.

    We are so divided now that cardboard cutouts replace the humanity of those deemed ‘other’, onto which almost fantasy can be projected. While we live inside our comfortable clans and prejudices, and don’t have anything to do with ‘those people’ very often living just across town.

    And how easily democracy is subverted into thought-free tribalism, especially when we allow ourselves to be distracted by popstar-esque cults of personality within that tribalism, and in which ”our people” are automatically good and right in any dispute, with reverse projections in the other direction, (or even the assumption that they are, politically in another direction.

    Mallard is an expression of a problem within Labour. But also, sadder still, within the nation.

    And when you jumped Chris, did Labour’s instigation of ‘Rogernomics’ hover anywhere in your consciousness?

  10. I think Bob is right but it is the result of unintended concequence. Through 3 Waters the New Health system and the Rotorua bill ey are trying to get Maori involved but it has backfired as many Pakeha are against them having any voice. Labour will lose whichever way they move I am afraid to say as they will be caught between their Maori cabinet and Pakeha voters

    1. Same question Trevor..

      Question, do you think Maori believe race relations have gone backwards or it’s attempting to be on a level pegging?

      Then ask yourself if you still think Bob’s one liner/soundbite is correct?

      1. no Bert, we are all one big happy family in NZ now under labour (sarc).

        I think Tamati Coffey’s sneaky attempt to change the balance in voting will make a lot of Pakeha mis-trustful. Same with Three Waters. But that is just my opinion

        1. Yep and in my opinion, Three Waters is an attempt to fix an existing broken infrastructure which by the way, seems to have been lost on those opposing it.
          But plenty have bought into the media spin on Three Waters, I suggest you read the document, you may just change your mind, but I doubt it(sarc).

  11. Funnily enough Chris, I have been musing for a couple of days on democracy and whether it has any effect in the world today. I believe utterly in it and still think that without it we are all screwed. Because what is the alternative?

    The worrying thing about democracy is that with the current political class (career politicians) where power is the only goal. Democracy cannot work in its current form. The side that stays in power is the one that is clever enough and ruthless enough to knock the legs out from under the opposition (Obvious moves in the US for example of republicans not letting crims and ex crims vote, of limiting mail in voting, of changing boundary lines to make votes less equal in value, Trumps flooding the legislature with right wing judges etc)

    Democracy only works when you have principled politicians. If they are a slave to money or ideology (what else are they when religious and societal constraints no longer inform our behaviour) and prepared to run roughshod over all opposition (enshrining principles under law that werent discussed, altering terms of reference for every govt dept, constitutional change by stealth) then democracy cant deliver.

    I have come to the conclusion that NZ can only move forward on a tribal, familial or community based way. At the moment, I dont think whoever we vote for is going to solve the majority of NZ’s problems. They are all values flexible, short term thinkers in it for their own personal wealth or power goals (Not all but the majority).

    The only hope we have is in NZers using their traditional ingenuity and egalitarian beliefs to establish thriving small communities. Imagine Maori living in a Te Ao Maori way communally in a smaller community. Able to live by and large the way they want to. Imagine Timaru having a vibrant local government and Lions club, Federated Farmers or whatever working really well together with the sole aim of making Timaru the best place to live in NZ.

    I know it sounds naive perhaps but I think the age of big government is over (It will continue but it wont deliver) so the best we can do is develop communities where we pull together and encourage innovation, sharing, leverage, whatever to build strong small communities. Even within suburban communities in cities this could happen. I really think it is a time of individual responsibility (rather than govt) to look after ourselves and our neighbours or our ”tribe’.

  12. Really good discussion and thought. Not that I agree with it all but it is good to join in to the broad mass of comment and read others opinions all at different places along the path that we adventurers in thought are on like Hansel and Gretel. We can follow the crumbs most of the time
    if we pay attention and look behind the bushes for footmarks.

  13. Sour Kraut You are one confused twerp. The government should be bringing up things for discussion not wait for mr and mrs conformist and family complacent group to bring up matters of twanging importance sure to affect our distant future. Frankly we are lucky if politicians get useful insight from their expensive advisors Who will cope amongst people who have difficulty using their imagination, reading anything that isn’t conformist populist stuff, and just getting all their ideas from central images put out by fabulously wealthy feed systems.

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