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  1. this situation illustrates the downside of identity politics taking primacy over class and power relationships, and the enervating effect of both post modernist and neo liberal philosophy on clearly identifying who are the oppressors in society

    I would definitely not want to see uniformed Police, or plainclothes Police for that matter, near a Union march either, all my adult life the NZ Police have bashed, law broken, and intimidated their way into parts of my life as a unionist and activist, on a multitude of pickets, strikes and marches

    1. I attended marches and student events at Auckland University during the early 1990s when the Police went on record to say they had not used unnecessary force, despite published photographic evidence of them using batons. So while I distrust the Police and their frequent abuse of power, I’m still in favour of them wearing uniforms while participating in the parade. This whole ‘trigger’ nonsense is just censorship, or control…

  2. I do not think I have seen anything so stupid and counter productive as the actions of the Parade board.

    1. Ditto, Dan. I have a close family member who is trans and we are BOTH apalled at how the Pride Parade board has acted. I may be a straight white male, but I have total sympathy for my fellow New Zealanders in the LGBTQI community. We should all be practicising inclusion. Anything less is a betrayal of the struggle for the rainbow community for acceptance.

      Pride is sadly mis-named. There is nothing to be proud of discrimination, from where ever it comes from.

  3. You’re somewhat missing the point Chris. The Pride Parade doesn’t need to be anarchist, counter-culture, and “deviant”, because the world has matured and people’s sexuality no longer defines them as the “other”.

    It’s the ultra-left and crypto-anarchists who have tried to hijack the parade, with nonsensical results.

    The sexual spectrum cannot be mapped straight onto the Left-Right political spectrum.

  4. As someone who is gay, I have had more prejudice and abuse from other gay people then I have from straight, police or anyone else.

    My experience in the gay community is that, you are either not thin enough or young enough, good looking enough or rich enough…..

    I have been in a loving relationship with my partner of ten years….we are not in the “gay scene” we are both “out” to our friends and family but we don’t associate with other gay couples….we are just two people living our lives….and after reading what has been going on with Pride in Auckland….reaffirms to us the choices we made to live our lives for us as the right thing to do.

    While I’m sure there are l

    1. I have a four friends who are gay. They are gentle, kind, patient, loving, slow to anger and quick to forgive. None speak with a lisp but are gentle and moderated in their speech. They have no time for those who decorate and flash their genitalia in public or for any blatant public display. They don’t criticize those who do. I love them.

  5. Thank you Chris. That was very well written.

    We should stand with the Pride Board for their brave decision to stand with the most marginalised and vulnerable who suffer from police harassment and abuse.

    1. I agree this is a very well expressed piece but to ban police in uniforms because maybe a bad copper took it out on someone somewhere is plain wrong, and those occurrences should be dealt with legally on a case basis, just like other injustices are to do with race and gender. I would hazard a guess that the police don’t have discriminatory policies and have gay people working in the force too so what is the point of excluding them as a group from the parade, effectively saying they are all gay bashers and negating their other positive role in society. This is discrimination and not helpful to any discussion or progress.

    2. Bollocks! The parade is making a point of standing up for marginalised (gay) people, Excluding (think about that word Chris) police from participating while wearing their uniform is unbelievably counterproductive to the whole event.

    3. Chris, when somebody is assaulted on Queen Street on a Friday night for being ‘queer’, would your advice be not to call the police but instead those people on the Parade Board responsible for excluding uniformed offices from the parade? You wouldn’t want to ‘trigger’ the victim of the assault after all. I’m sure the Board will get out of their warm beds at 2am and clean up the mess… Let me know how that goes for you.

      1. Matt my advice to someone who has been beaten up would be do not go anywhere the police. This advice is for any marginalized group – as a young woman who was sexually assaulted in Auckland I really enjoyed the police telling me it was my fault as my dress was too short and I had walked through an alley! They didn’t even bother with statement – then told me to walk home from central police station. I would not walk in any parade that has police in uniform because they are not for my security I am not rich enough to be their client!

  6. “How quickly people forget ” best epitomised by Paula Bennett MP, spiting on women who were single mother beneficiaries just like her; depriving them of the Training Incentive Allowance which gave her a chance to try and better herself – although whether or not it did, remains a moot point.

    It may be that societal groups which perceive themselves as being now mainstream, simply adopt the ethos of the mainstream. In NZ that is narrow minded, parochial, vicious, violent and bullying. We are world leaders in all destructive damaging traits.

    The cops are there when we need them, and we do – even if they pull patronising pr stunts like producing rainbow cars and expecting applause.Historically, the clergy have been a hell of a lot worse.

    Seen priests in cassocks marching in a gay parade ?

  7. I agree the grievances of abused parties absolutely needs addressing and dealing with in a meaningful way. I question whether excluding the police force, whom in an official capacity at least are the LGBT community’s allies and protectors, from their celebrations will have any meaningful result.
    Even now in the heat of the furore, the burning issue is whether some civil servants can wear the clothes they want, not what atrocities have occurred to and by whom, where and when, and how the offending parties can be held responsible.
    Both individual and systemic issues would be better handled in a lastingly progressive way if it’s agreed at the outset that we all understand and stand by the principles of basic human rights. Which yes, does include respecting the wishes of the host community if they truly believe in their position. Personally as above, I’m not convinced that is really helpful and there’s clearly a spectrum of views within said community.
    What irks me most reading through the many points of view is the frequent gleeful deriding of opposing views without due consideration. I know I know, why am I reading internet comments threads then? …I maintain an optimistic approach that everyone is capable of considering long held views in a new light if caught in a teachable moment, and some issues are important enough to keep trying.

  8. I’m not sure when it became so important – for left leaning folks – to support / defend the NZ Police?
    In 2014 – when the NZ Police marched in the Pride Parade NOT in uniform – Maori were 7 times more likely to be arrested than Pakeha
    *fast forward 2018*
    In 2018 – Maori are 8 times more likely to be arrested than Pakeha – and people want the NZ Police in the Pride Parade AND in uniform?
    Puhlease!

  9. This is another of those situations where both sides have a good point.

    Sometimes excluding the police to make a point about the way they treat transgender people is an effective tool and sometimes bringing them into the fold and working from the inside is a better tool. I couldn’t say which is the best way and I don’t think anyone truly can unless they have a Tardis.

    The same thing is happening with the way liberal educated types are coming down hard on working class people for their racist/sexist viewpoints. It used to be important to make an assertive stand against the isms but making an assertive stand against people with less power than yourself is quite a different thing. In that case befriending racist/sexist people might be more effective.

    Everyone just seems so determined to take a side on issues these days – It almost feels radical to occupy the middle ground right now.

  10. The whole lot of you, including the author, have failed to note the substantial damage inflicted by 30 years of neo-liberalism on our society.

    As pointed out a couple of weeks ago at TDB most of us have absorbed large quantities of “unconscious” neo-liberalism.

    Everyone who says “who’s gonna pay for it?” or “taxpayers” or “free market” (or even just “market”) is invariably beholden to the evil cancer.

    Thatcher was the one who claimed “There is no such thing as society” and present day NZ is exactly that.

    When there is insufficient pay for jobs that are not CEO jobs; when all the power is held by the banks who are unrestrained by legislation; when the prime directive of the civil service is to make a profit; when housing is no longer affordable; when being housed is no longer the norm; when the individual’s political vote has no real effect on the economy so there is no point in voting; when the poor and underpaid and unemployed pay taxes but the corporations and top 1% don’t; when so many are denied access to doctors, hospitals and medicine; when third world diseases and previously extinct diseases are prevalent in this country…

    …Then you cannot claim to have a society.

    When you no longer have a society nobody need give a flying fuck about anybody else. Just look after yourself.

    Inclusion of any kind is not available to such a society, even when legislated for. It has to come from the heart not the sodding market.

    Try killing the cancer first.

  11. I’m afraid I’m baffled.
    I was in San Francisco 5 years during their Pride march
    There was certainly no problem with LBGTQ cops participating, in fact it was rather thrilling to see them being so flamboyant and outrageous in their cop cars and motorbikes.
    The more they are included and come “out” in festivals like this the more the police culture changes, surely?

  12. https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2018/11/23/must-read-the-perils-of-inclusion/

    “How quickly people forget.”

    Yes for sure.Chris said; “How quickly people forget.”

    THIS LABOUR COALITION IS CERTAINLY FORGETTING THEIR OWN PROMISE “TO BE INCLUSIVE” (and give us all a voice to be heard.) as they repeatedly promised.

    We will not be so forgetful come the next election will we just?

    This labour coalition will be punished for their ‘forgetfulness too!!!!!.

    Our own HB/Gisborne groups are very disappointed as the Labour Minister of Transport is also very ‘forgetful’ as he has since being chosen as our new ‘Minister of transport received 60 emails from our NGO requesting his ‘indulgence’ in “advocating for us” and requests to meet with us and only once has Phil Twyford ever responded!!!!!!!!

    That was after our letter to him of “congratulations to him on 25th October for him becoming our new minister of transport”.

    Since then a year ago, after another 59 emails were sent to him requesting a meeting with him, he has apparently “been to busy to bother with our groups since then”

    So yes Labour are being foolish here and caviler, and forgetful as they promised to be a Government that would be “inclusive” – yeah right!!!!!

    Roll around 2020 then so we can show our voice at the voting booth, then these Ministers might awaken from their slumber as they are shown the door if they don’t wake up!!!

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