Can someone please explain how Crimson Education were all geared up to go with this at the same time the government announced the proposed replacement of NCEA?.
That immediately makes me wonder who is behind the new assessment system and who has been tasked with the design of the replacement system. Any guesses? It also explains why the new system is almost already to go, once the superficial consultation is completed.
This is yet another example where it looks like government is feeding a lucrative contract to a corporate buddy, and another step in the incremental privatisation of education. It also underscores the government’s education ideology, not based on what is good for the students but on what is good for the elites, and for employers.
Crimson Education is unashamedly elitist.
“Crimson supports Kiwi students to become world-class leaders and learners. In 2024, we celebrate our 10th year of sending Kiwis to the Ivy League, Stanford, MIT, Duke, Oxford, Cambridge and beyond.
When we first started, the number of Kiwi students successfully applying to top universities was extremely limited –– and now, New Zealand sends more students to the Ivy League per capita than any country outside the US!”
Given this elitism, isn’t a bit rich that the founder Jamie Beaton was interviewed over the weekend about the problems with NCEA and that it needed replacing?
NCEA leaves Kiwi kids unprepared for future – Crimson head
‘The NCEA qualification lacks the rigour needed to prepare New Zealand students for competitive universities and workplaces, the chief executive of Crimson Education says.
It comes as an announcement from the Government and Education Minister Erica Stanford is expected imminently on the future of the NCEA system.
Speaking to Q+A, Crimson Education co-founder Jamie Beaton said NCEA wasn’t setting students up well for future success, and lacks international recognition.
“To be honest, it’s rough. NCEA is basically not a rigorous curriculum at all, and students graduating with it are often two years behind in core subjects like maths, science as well,” said Beaton.’
Something smells here…
Switching to another eye-rolling topic, here is a doozy from Erica Stanford:
Watch: AI will aid with NCEA replacement, Education Minister says
“Stanford said New Zealand will continue to use AI as a marking tool, as it already been used for literacy and numeracy corequisite exams.
“We’re extraordinarily advanced in terms of the rest of the world,” she said.
“Many other countries can’t even dream of where we’re at the moment – digital exams, AI marking.”
AI marking was as good, if not better than human marking, she said.”
Someone should tell the UK students who angrily protested a few years back about AI being used to mark their A level examinations. Ah, but New Zealand is advanced in terms of the rest of the world so all will be fine.
It is very obvious that she and others in the government have no understanding of what an AI is, and it works, and see it as a panacea.
Let’s be clear here – there is nothing intelligent about a so-called AI – technically known as a large language learning model (LLM) which is no more than a highly advanced version of predictive text. The label “Artificial Intelligence” was coined to make it seem more special and to enable it to be hyped up as the next big thing in computing and which has already made many people rather rich, as the emphasis has gone into encouraging consumers to subscribe to plans that offer extra advantages over the free basic levels.
Hence the rage when China developed their own LLMs (e.g., DeepSeek) and made these free for all.
A simplistic description of a LLM is a gigantic database of information that has been scraped from websites regardless of ownership and copyright and uses this information to answer questions and tasks posed to it. There is a real danger over time of this database being corrupted as faulty information from AI responses are incorporated, and there are suggestions this is already happening. The old computer adage GIGO is still alive (Garbage In, Garbage Out)
It is impossible for a LLM to think for itself and to come up with original thinking and thus fails any definition of intelligence.
If you would like to know more I highly recommend this book:
“The AI Con – How to Fight Big Tech’s Hype and Create the Future We Want,’ by Emily. M. Bender and Alex Hanna.
Returning to Erica Stanford and the use of AI to mark assessments: yes there is a place for this, where the tasks have a clear answer, multiple choice questions obviously, and also questions that require the regurgitation of facts. However this is low learning learning, not conducive to developing higher level learning and thinking, the assessing of which requires subjective judgement by highly trained humans, teachers in other words.
However if we look at the government’s development of a ‘knowledge based curriculum’ then the proposed use of AI as marking tool makes sense. The intent seems to be to narrow down the curriculum to the basics of literacy and numeracy and little else.
‘Students in Year 11 will be required to take English and Mathematics and sit a new ‘Foundational Skills Award’ test that documents achievement in literacy and numeracy.’
This approach is very much in keeping with the banking model of education described by great Brazilian educator Paolo Friere in his book ‘Pedagogy of the Oppressed.’
‘Instead of communicating, the teacher issues communiqués and makes deposits which the students patiently receive, memorize, and repeat. This is the “banking” concept of education, in which the scope of action allowed to students extends only as far as receiving, filing, and storing the deposits’.
This is outlined is further in Wikipedia:
‘Education is thus seen as a process of depositing knowledge into passive students. Teachers are the epistemological authority in this system; students’ pre-existing knowledge is ignored, aside from what was expected to be ‘deposited’ into them earlier. Freire also refers to a banking paradigm as regarding students to be “adaptable, manageable beings. … The more completely they accept the passive role imposed on them, the more they tend simply to adapt to the world as it is and to the fragmented view of reality deposited in them.’
It’s not hard to draw the connections to this government’s education policy, one favoured by right wing political parties all over the world. In their world view it is not desirable to have an educated populace who can investigate for themselves and to form their own opinions.
Instead students’ learning is restricted by a narrow focused curriculum supplemented by media who ensure that that information passed on is similarly limited, and that the population is distracted by mindless entertainment. Aldous Huxley’s book ‘Brave New World’ describes such a situation, as does ‘Fahrenheit 451’ by Ray Bradbury.
To conclude, it is very possible to infer from Stanford’s statement about AI that use of this as a tool to replace teachers is also a long term possibility. After all, if education is limited to pouring knowledge down children’s throats, then who needs highly skilled and knowledgeable teachers?
Is this what we want?
Great, just what we need, MechaHitler giving notes on Romeo and Juliette.
NCEA = turn up at school, play kapa haka or some school activity = pass NCEA!
And no matter if the student is still illiterate and can’t do basic maths = FAILURE of a NCEA system.
Get back to actual exams to determine the knowledge and education of the individual student = proper education!
Please define proper education
‘Please define proper education.’
Going to a jolly good scholl like Kings or Snt Cithbits where one’s offspring does not nid to spill wurds priperly, or larn anything, becoz thiy will make frinds wiv ether rich pricks’ childin and this will set thim up for life.
I’ll try Allan:
Not a single person in this country can’t read or write or even have a conversation without Google help, or do basic maths without a calculator! More complex stuff, sure, but basic stuff…we’ve lost it.
Well said Im right.
He that is first shall later be last
Oh Clive you have definitely learned words of wisdom and can spill them rite.
It would be interesting to know if Bob the first and Im right had ever worked as teachers or knew anything about NCEA or anything else connected with education?
I have worked as a teacher and taught several subjects.
Over the years I meet many ex-students and I notice that their success in terms of employment, family life, service to community has little to do with academic achievements and more to the moral values they learned.
I do not have a lot of time today so I will ask someone else to explain to Bob the First and Im right what moral values are.
that would be a waste of time ,much like asking the fucken PM when he is going to step up and do some work instead of being on overseas holidays all the time .
So you expect the Prime Minister to live in “splendid isolation?”
Gosh, sorry gordon but you frequently display idiotic views.
Well done Bob you’ve managed two sentences. Both mindless dribble but you’re on the right track. You just need to think a little harder.
No point Stevie, read their posts, they have no morals or standards, that much is certain.
Why do you give your above-mentioned air-time stevie and you reactive others. Put forward your own ideas not waste time and space on reacting to dorks and sycophants FGS. They are everyday complacents, no souls and sans everything actually. Now we are at the end of the world literally can’t you concentrate your thoughts on the people who have never been near enough to the right education to understand our existential plight? These others are suffering from Dorian Gray syndrome.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existentialism
Existentialism is a family of philosophical views and inquiry that explore the human individual’s struggle to lead an authentic life despite the apparent absurdity or incomprehensibility of existence.[1][2][3] In examining meaning, purpose, and value, existentialist thought often includes concepts such as existential crises, angst, courage, and freedom.[4] …
Well, of course dick head. You and Im Right are the same thing.
Im tighty righty and Bob troll went to the school for the retarded and say stupid things.
If that is the system that taught you, then you are a good illustration of its failures. Despite your username it is almost inevitable that you’re wrong in your comments as the simplistic description you have provided to explain NCEA shows.
Im right – Sadly, this is sometimes correct…
As usual our right on the button .It is strange that the simpler the solution the less the Left want it. Teaching the basics of writing and arithmetic the rest will fall into shape and you have better citizens
Well your writing is appalling, which makes you a huge failure and you have no right to be telling other people of the left what is right and what is wrong in writing or arithmetic.
absolute bull shit .Lets go back to the 60s where 50% have to fail .NCEA WAS SUITABLE FOR ALL STUDENTS .One size does not fit everyone does it .It suited the students that wanted to go to uni and those that did not were able to get a qualification that assisted them into a trade .Under your stupid old fashioned idea if we had 100 kids and 50% passed and all became lawyers what then .If every school had the same result there would be a shit load of unemployed lawyers eh .
Trevor was still in the UK with their pompous upper lip autocratic education system.
That 50 % bullshit pass/ fail system was pathetic here in NZ however the genuine students who failed had industry to fall back on. We know longer have that.
My daughter went through NCEA at school and is now highly qualified in Dental and medical health .So that blows your bull shit out of the water .
@I’m right, my kids just went through NCEA and I don’t understand what you’re saying, it literally bears no relation to their experiences. I should say I don’t think NCEA is very good system either but please can we talk about facts instead of the nonsense that people with different agendas put out there in an attempt to make people angry
Spot on Im right, we need proper education,the definition of which is self evident.
Did Mr crimson learn to speak so fast by crimson education he was selling their services and product and frankly based on that interview he talked a load of bullshit. However, Luxon has said he wants to privatise education.
He is selling the Harvard dream to rich kids parents who pay him a truck load of cash to lobby all of the american unis .He learned to talk so fast at harvard the same place Jones ,Key and maybe luxon and willis learned to spin shit at high speed .
Yes, gordon I thought the miniature crimson man was talking fast so Jack couldn’t get a word in or ask him a question, notice Luxon does it to.
Yes, gordon I thought the miniature crimson man was talking fast so Jack couldn’t get a word in or ask him a question, notice Luxon does it to.
Scholarships to USA’s Ivy League institutions are generally Chicago school neoliberal indoctrination operations.
“In their world view it is not desirable to have an educated populace who can investigate for themselves and to form their own opinions. ”
If you are arguing that’s a bad thing, well, I’m not sure if we want a world where “doing you own research” trumps expertise either.
So you want a world where everyone accepts as fact whatever the powers of the day deem to be important? Theocracy? Dictatorship? Fascism? Communism? Oligarchy?
“So you want a world where ..blah blah”
That’s a classic opening of a strawman argument. Paint a false position of the opponent you wish to smear and proceed from there.
I thought better of you.
And you don’t have to fall into snappy critical retorts RC. If you are so wise, everything can be up for reasoned discussion. And can be done with humour not knee-jerk acerbity.
How on earth did Jack Tame get so taken in by Jamie Beaton?
He had this fast-talking, multi-degreed (apparently) conman on his show last Sunday.
Beaton sure did the bidding of his right-wing, wealthy mates!
It’s quite simple. Stanford has been sucked into thinking we do not want people to be able to think or question. It was religion once that achieved this aim but now, we have machines to do it.
She’s so simple in her thinking. No originality, no creativity allowed, just accept this rubbish as it is because she says so. She must be the most boring parent. ‘We’ll just sit here and play on our devices. We don’t want to risk getting dirty or finding out something that’s not on this computer.’
We have never had such uninspiring leaders. They are nothing but machines themselves. They’ve accepted the dogma and don’t want to ask if it’s sensible because it would require them to think. They are the first victims of this robotic thinking. I’ve always thought Seymour was like a little robot and now we know I wasn’t wrong. They all are.
Stanford is about as inspiring and original as Barbie.
For all the value we are getting from this CoC govt. we may as well just use AI to run the country.
We are paying them to use their brains and creativity, not fall back on asking machines what to do.
Get rid of them and get someone who can think for themselves.
I think this Crimson thing will fill that AI place joy. And I fear that all our ideas and complaints are going to be picked up by the graduates of the course ‘Politics for Dummies’ whose star is David Seymour. I sense an insolent supercilious sneer coming from the green room already. And the use of crimson in this eddication idea feeds my unease. I have used the Monty Python fantasy of the Crimson Assurance which is a moving vehicle that breaks through the present complaisance and sails off over a cliff with the eager beavers for change. We are up against deviousness in minds that can tame AI to be a hunting dog for them I fear, and not foolishly, when looking at past and current history. Ladies and Gents I present the Crimson Assurance Part 1.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecFBcpY9NHI
Crimson is to Stanford and Luxon like what the tobacco lobby are to Winston and the mining and fish lobby are to Jones .Parasites because little Jimmy is too fucken lazy to apply for a position at a uni but never mind daddy will pay crimson a small fortune for them to lobby on your behalf .
Well said Gordon. This is the most corrupt government in the history of our parliament.
The CoC lot are thinking Joy they are thinking of money and power, and they don’t care what they have to do to achieve this. Stanford has no qualification in education pedagogy and Willis has an English literature degree; how did they get their jobs? I am not saying they don’t deserve them, but they are moving the goal post for many others, and they are insisting they know bests when they don’t.
Yes, gordon I thought the miniature crimson man was talking fast so Jack couldn’t get a word in or ask him a question, notice Luxon does it to.
Folks
I’m Right touched on a valid point!!! When spreading one’s wings and looking to work or build a career overseas, or here for that matter, nothing trumps those credits for haka. It leaves maths or reading and writing for dust. Flax weaving and helping elderly across the road come close, especially in the production of microchips and other Ai tech, but still, those haka credits….
No he didn’t mein kampf, Im not right is a retard!!!
racist entitled prick
They say ‘a little knowledge is a dangerous thing’ and is sure applies to the righties who come here. You have heard a rumour from your neighbour, who got it from their friend’s grandchild, that they learn the haka at school and suddenly you imagine it goes on all day and nothing else gets done. Use a bit of logic KH.
Teachers cannot just do one thing all day long. The curriculum requires more. The children would be climbing the walls. There is variety. Depending on the age of the children, they spend about an hour doing maths, an hour on reading/writing. Each subject tends to require a mixture of skills so they are practiced several times a day. After 2p,m things relax a bit and that may be when they learn haka or doing singing or sport or something else.
I think you have been misled.
KH the valid point that you see is a red (probably) button that someone like you press when you want to destroy something. We who live and breathe need to know this and who have been lobotomised and treat you with shock and awe, handle carefully!
Actually you and the trail of comics around r-w thinking on here, we know who you are, may be working to draw our ire and thoughts to be noted for later. Hitler noted the late pithy cartoonist David Low, and that is not forgotten nor is Hitler and his minions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Low_(cartoonist)
…the Evening Standard. There he produced his most famous work, chronicling the rise of fascism in the 1930s, the policy of Appeasement, and the conflict of World War II…
Nothing good will ever come out of a government that has given up on education. AI marking is for dummies, not halfway decent education systems. NCEA is a thousand different things in every school.
The Lama in Kipling’s Kim wrote “Education is greatest blessing if of best sorts. Otherwise no earthly use.” It is a chimera though, and not to be pinned to a cork board like some taxonomist’s butterfly.
NZ as rested on its laurels too long, and the great scandal of our PISA scores will have to be amended. Once we have a government that concerns itself with our country’s future and not diverting public funds to their own advantage.
Tell me why Luxon takes a kapa haka team when he is doing trade business kraus could it be because some other countries value culture or do you think it is for pure entertainment.
C’mon Covid you know NZ leaders are allowed to take pets on trips!
Pets that can do tricks are fun…funny wee dances, very entertaining trick, you should be honored!!
We need to bring back sensible system of education with additions and revisions, that we had set up. This was before the children of the past conservatives took over, and reversed all we had achieved; based on something they heard at a dinner party meeting of many courses with others of their sort. All they learned from that was to say, ‘of course’ to anything that anyone said, who had the required pots and lots (of money and houses).
Now we are back to cranking the vehicle to get it started, and if you still have that type of handle keep it and sleep with it, don’t let it out of your sight. Those ignorant children have never learned practical matters and the refinements of mind that a modern human needs, and which used to be taught when education reached out to all with a ’rounded’ education curriculum.
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