David Seymour’s Treaty principles released, with major warnings from officials
Cabinet has agreed on what the Treaty Principles Bill should say, but its proposed principles could spell constitutional chaos – according to official advice.
The bill has caused massive debate already, after National leader Christopher Luxon agreed with ACT leader David Seymour to support it through to first reading in Parliament. That vote would trigger a six-month public inquiry, by way of select committee, into the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi.
But Luxon said the National Party would then bin the bill, rejecting it before it became law.
On Wednesday, Seymour released the next steps – agreed by Cabinet – and the advice it received when it discussed the Treaty Principles Bill on Monday. That advice warned ministers that progressing with the bill, as it was proposed, risked causing significant social harm and con situational uncertainty for the nation.
Let’s be very clear.
Chris Luxon is willing to provoke a race conflict that Officials warn him will cause significant risk to social cohesion because he was too weak to stand up to ACT when they signed the coalition agreement.
Luxon’s incompetence has painted him into this corner and the entire country now has to face a tsunami of redneck cracker hate speech in the name of having a debate over an ACT Party vanity project that will cost us $4million, go no where and will only allow a toxically racist tide of septic shit to swamp us all.
We used to be better than this.
Luxon doesn’t represent political leadership, he symbolises expedience no matter the cost.
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92% OF VOTERS DID NOT VOTE FOR THIS FUCKEN CRACK POT WHO MUST BE USEING LARGE AMOUNTS OF SAID CACK DAILY .Why is Luxon allowing him to start a civil war ? M y guess is so he can syphon more money to him self and his rich owners while no one is watching .Then Like Key he will fly off into exile in one of his shitty Air NZ planes that he bought when CEO .
Yes …we have the billionaire backed, delusional, attention-seeking behavior, Atlas sycophantic dweeb, that is Seymour and the shallow as a puddle, room for dancing upstairs, i don’t know who i am or what i stand for, Luxon.
Great choice New Zealand …well done!!
It’s going to get ugly…very ugly!!!
I believe Luxon is a closet racist with hi behaviour and his lack of understanding of NZ History. This COC is going to end in a mess in my opinion.
Nothing closet about the skin head .Fuck he clearl spends a lot of time bent over Seymoures desk or under it with his bald head between davids legs .Then he attends to Winstons needs when he whistles .
Luxon has Mckee arming the cracker red necks as fast as she can with automatic rifles to defend him from the up coming race war that he is allowing to happen
Most people don’t vote for fringe parties. MMP enables them. ACT, TPM, Greens and NZF are fringe and cause all the trouble.
Paul Holmes told us it had to be MMP. Nothing else would do.
It seems you are one of the few people who post on here that understands MMP and what negotiation is .
Did the same people whing when Labour gave in to Winston when they were In coalition.
Yes we did thats why he was voted to the curb the two faced fuck.
lolz, yep, that is a succinct summary of the facts.
Why are people so afraid to debate the ACT legislation proposal? It is a godsend time to put up the counter proposals, to outline the future, to paint a picture of New Zealand society as seen from numerous other eyes.
Instead we get comments like the first two. Totally devout of any counter balance except to call a civil war (bring it on, we are ready) or simply call people “racist” (a word so over used it is meaningless and is now more a badge of honour as to being a reasonably open minded person).
How about penning some articles on how New Zealand will look and function if you were the PM. Lets have a proper debate instead of this fear mongering and name calling. Be productive instead of counter productive.
Come on Maori, let see your proposals instead of calls to war or using the “racist” card.
What do you want? For unless you spell it out and how if will function for ALL New Zealanders, you will not gain a ounce of traction. You cannot win a argument (or a civil war) if you don’t know what you are fighting for! And yes you have outlined a string of needs in the past but no methodology to achieve said bullet points.
If you don’t know where you are going, any road will take you there. (Old Irish Proverb).
Idiot. We have a system that is working, so the need to offer up counter proposals is redundant. Maybe you should stick to commenting on how Ukraine is “winning” against Russia.
Commentators need to stop calling Luxon weak. This is not the case. National did well out anti-Maori rhetoric at the last election and the 6 month Treaty Bill process is a vote harvesting exercise for all the parties involved – not just Act. If polling supports the Treaty Bill referendum then I can guarantee it will be in the National Party manifesto at the next election. This is all about setting and then holding the political narrative for 2026. Seasoned political journalist, Andrea Vance, calls Luxon naive – this is really poor political analysis – Luxon and National Party strategists are not in the slightest bit naive, they are experienced and hardened operators who know exactly what they are doing.
Agree 100%. Luxon good cop to Seymour’s bad cop as Gorden Campbell over at Scoop points out. It doesn’t really matter how intelligent or not Luxon is because he is basically a right wing bigot who is using or acting in cahoots with Seymore to enact their very own Atlas Network policies.
Yeah. There are two hypotheses. 1.) Luxon disagrees with Seymour but is so weak that Seymour walks all over him, or (2. Luxon and the National Party broadly agree with Seymour and find it convenient for Seymour/ACT to be the ones saying this stuff out loud, while they get to look a bit more statesman-like and moderate.
Like you, I think the no.2 is the more convincing, and for a couple of reasons. First, as you say, National did not hold back on the anti-Maori culture* red meat during the election. And second, remember that not long ago, John Key had almost completely absorbed the ACT vote into National and had Banks and then Seymour on life support in Epsom. ACT and National are comfortable with each other – one shades imperceptibly into the other.
*Note: I stress “anti-Maori culture”, not “anti-Maori”. Because in NZ, the latter is seen as racist, while the former (strangely) is not and it is very common in certain circles.
Luxon comes across as particularly weak, he definitely does not have much control or direction he wants the COC to take, Seymore, Winston and Shane Jones will say and do anything if they think it will win them votes, none of them gives a rat’s arse about the country or the NZ people. They are stroking their own ego’s and paddling their own canoes.
Race “conflict” (right wing white racism ) is very profitable business for the right wing.
Always has been.
You dont need any intelligence talent or ability to succeed in politics business or the media.
You need only appeal to right wing white prejudice ignorance and power.
Minority bashing especially Maori bashing is the lowest hanging fruit in Politics, Business and the media.
This is simply NZ politics 101.
National humiliated in 2020 and jealous of the world wide popularity of JA were desperate.
So they embakrked on a revenge campaign.
The only guarantee for victory was to appeal to right wing white prejudice, ignorance and power.
Maori blaming, leading to Maori hatred leading to the “need” for a Maori bashing Government.
Land slide victory. Surprise? No. Muldoon ’75 Bolger ’90 did the same.
Tapping into the White right wing racist DNA which has existed since the invasion of 1840 works every time.
Politically its a winner because attacking those who don’t vote for you like Maori, Feminists, Greens, Gays Pacific slanders, many immigrant, artists and academics does not hurt you at the ballot box.
The white right wing have never lost after one term so we’ll have a fascist Govt until at least 2029.
Agree with that mate
Mr Bradbury, another one that summons forth your more deranged commenters. You, and them, and others of the same ilk, who so vehemently disapprove of any questioning, let alone debate, of anything related to Maori and/or the treaty, are the racist voices on this topic. Elite Maori constantly invoke the “principles” of the treaty as support for their divisiveness yet shout down any attempt to define what these “principles” actually are. Only rabid lefties could support that blatant racism.
I wish I could see your face in 3 weeks time when you hear what is happening on The Working Group
“Only rabid lefties could support that blatant racism.
Any relevance to your post lost credibility with the above comment.
This must mean you’re a rabid righty racist.
Luxon is such an ignorant and arrogant man, he cannot imagine the harm he is doing by letting this fester.
It’s the old ‘we know best’ thing again.
He doesn’t know best, he doesn’t listen and he hasn’t learnt a thing since returning to NZ to live and work. He’s away with the fairies as far as NZ is concerned and is deluded enough to think he’s playing it really smart.
God knows what his advisors are saying. Labour may have employed a lot of consultants but it’s a shame he doesn’t employ some and listen to the underlying murmur.
Everything is short term, cheap, ‘we are the best managers of the economy’, silly slogans he’s heard over the years and he keeps repeating in the face of fact and obvious evidence to the contrary.
To be prime minster and get a knighthood, he has allowed some of the most dangerous people to ever grace our parliament, to gain the upper hand.
But maybe he doesn’t care. He’ll get his knighthood, be paid handsomely and go.
Weakness and Ignorance, for personal gain.
No useful legacy.
I can’t imagine how a so called educated, church going non racist as Luxon has professed to be can allow two racist non church going maybe educated people to walk all over him and make him look like a totally incompetent nitwit and keep smiling and pretending he is in charge.
I suppose it’s about power and getting yourself on the news.
During my entire life I have seen people do stupid stuff and have thought they were clever because their stupid mates egged them on.
With Luxon we have a classic example of this.
Seymour, Peters, Jones, Willis, Browne, Bishop and Goldsmith must give thanks everyday for the gift that keeps on giving.
I must add that the likes of Coughlan, Trevit, Malpass, Young etc must carry some of the credit for enabling this circus to be set up and perform.
They spent much time prior to the election talking up Luxon Seymour And Peters while denigrating other politicians and their parties and now we see the results.
We are yet to see the worst.
For examples I have just read the consequences of councils having their credit ratings downgraded.
Apart from racial division looming the financial outlook is deteriorating for councils, hence ratepayers by the day.
Funny how most of them are talking amalgamation of 3 waters now but realizing they will not be able to fund it.
All of this ‘ burn the treaty ‘ is just a smoke screen, a crafted distraction so the public have someone to blame for the very real oozing wounds this CoC has created, so evident all around us in their drive for this big con job of ‘ back on track ‘ .
Look around , once you’ve burnt the treaty, What now? you will say as the ashes smoulder and you’re still standing in shit ! Who will the neofacists deflect your attention to next to blame, bash and burn ?
Never before has there been such speed under a Government as to how quickly it all happened .. skilled and highly qualified family members suddenly unemployed, rent and mortgages creating so much real stress while food and power prices rise, 1000 disappearing children… but we need military style guns ?
At a time when social care agencies are needed more than ever, a slashing of funding that has seen care agencies lay off staff, close facilities, all the while the likes of clients awaiting mental health care are backlogged. Watch the suicide rates !
The joke of the month has to be the MPs written to about the dire , urgent circumstances of real people from the fallout of ‘ back on track ‘ and the email reply from a Minister sending a publically available list of other charities for that care agency to apply to. How’s that for a cold hearted response to suffering ?
What fools ! NZ isn’t even a paradigm parading as neoliberalism anymore. This is swift social collapse with Nats grasping at ” promises of a return to lost glory ” sticking bandaids on as fast as they can on these oozing wounds of neoliberalism all the while NZ has that little man Dave leading the neofascists. There’s not an original thought in that man, just a mouthpiece…. look over there burn those lunch eating teachers.
I’ll leave it to recent writings of Chomsky while you warm your hands on Heil David’s fire. It’s way beyond this manufacturing class and race wars.
https://truthout.org/articles/noam-chomsky-were-on-the-road-to-a-form-of-neofascism/
“We used to be better than this.”
When was that. A few decades ago minimum.
Luxon loves the shit pouring out Seymour’s mouth.
We live in an era where philosophers have been abandoned and psychologists rule, and they have perfected their dark arts to manipulate the populace. Look at Crosby Textor under Key, god knows who it is now.
Divide and conquer, distract and plunder.
These people (Luxon, Windsac and Seymore) may be as dumb as rocks, but they know there are people who exist that are not as dumb as rocks and will do anything for cash.
That is all they need to know.
A question that we need to ask is what’s in it for Luxon to bend over for whatever Seymour wants.
Well, at negotiate time it was the price for getting to be prime minister. It worked. Cheap at half the price.
And now it’s the price to stay prime minister. Again, a bargain.
The big prize? He gets to be Sir Christopher Luxon.
Right now he’s hoping to get it both ways – keep his promise to Seymour, and also appease moderates and Maori by (promising to) binning the bill before it gets further.
But will he allow the poll that Seymour will insist on as a consolation prize?
This shabby dressed school boy, what a mouth, and what a uncaring view, of who we are, stole all my lunch money, tried to ingratiate with my school team, left not only the benches, but left alone. look at my new team and they are so.
Lets walk back in the giants footsteps, lets do them their thought care and Nationalise our electricity output and ownership AGAIN. Lets HoNOUR TE TREATY, without the stallion in the horse stalls , one with respect the other jist a tosser.
Read Gordon Campbell’s good cop/ bad cop analysis of Luxon and Seymour’s bro ship. Makes sense, explains what is pretty obvious. In addition this so called bill attempt puts pay to the lie they care about spending public money. They don’t. The cancelled ferry deal the same. Both right out of the Atlas Network playbook, which is the same that informs US Project 25.
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