We all have friends who went down the rabbit hole and who never came back, for them the sense of ostracisation inside their own home country has become a toxic abusive relationship they can’t leave, but many were simply kiwis who for one reason or another didn’t decide to take the vaccine.
For some it was a medical reason they couldn’t take the vaccine.
For some it was a matter of principle.
For some they were frightened by misinformation and others read the information differently.
No one should be forced to take any medicine they don’t want, and any State that holds down an individual and forces medicine into them is not a State anyone wants to defend, but employment mandates aimed at stopping the spread of a novel virus were the best decision in the face of a real time pandemic.
We should have made it easier for those who refused the vaccine to access welfare and return to their jobs once vaccination numbers reached a high enough level to suppress outbreaks.
We ended up in conflict with them and that conflict has damaged those impacted by it beyond repair.
I know family who have cut each other off over it, I know friendships that will never be healed over this.
The anti-vaxxers are still clinging to media echo bunkers and holding up any cherry picked science that suddenly proves them right, is a desperate act of keeping the debate going as if it hadn’t already been settled.
And when I say settled, I mean settled.
It was the right thing to push for a mass pubic vaccination program and remove those from employment where they might have spread it, yes there will always be a small group who refuse, but everyone else needed to comply to ensure the virus was stopped.
The 5% might hate us for that, but the other 95% will thank us.
Whatever the reason to not get vaccinated, you are still New Zealanders, you are still our brothers and sisters, you are still us.
The need to find a way to rebuild bridges with the 5% of our population who feel perpetually aggrieved by what happened is a challenge when there is so much anger and fear.
But we are going to have to try or else that aggrieved 5% will turn into something more toxic.
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Among the 5% it’s probably safe to assume are those that are anti vax for diseases such as measles as well. Let’s just say “you can’t choose your family” and I struggle to have any sympathy (medical reasons aside of course)
That 5% can find a political home at NZ First and feel like they have been heard.
Nice projection.
The division has barely started. the radicalization of the State is barely in its infancy. The AV brigade is just the warm up act, most of us will feel the radicalization force in the not too distant future as climate change policy will hit us all.
My brother-in-law went down the antivax rabbit hole and is still well and truly down there and has also started a side-tunnel that has Ardern and Michelle Obama as both men in it (seems Michelle Obama is actually a dude called Michael).
Nuttier than squirrel shit and to be honest when you are face to face with someone who 100% believes this crap not that cool especially when there are little kids around and they start to lose their shit because everyone else isn’t buying into it as well . .
Sod ’em. I would not have wanted to work side by side with unvaccinated workers. This caused problems for unions, private sector more so, that is for sure. And friendships and family relations. A mate of mine with cancer and taking Keytruda was bollocked by another woman for “shedding” on her when she found out my friend had been vaccinated. How sensitive. The bollocker has since apologised but things will never be the same.
My partner was a union organiser during COVID and it was a testing time. Obese drinkers, smokers, drug users saying “not putting that shit in my body”–puhlease…
This article was very interesting–don’t be put off by Martyn’s nemesis the spinoff–this refers to the long running Otago University longitudinal study.
https://thespinoff.co.nz/science/08-04-2022/vaccine-resistance-linked-to-deep-seated-childhood-experiences-dunedin-study-finds?fbclid=IwAR3VO7ZI8qmeW_s1LBozL6wKtousOYGBQzKL9_UdrjLQVgSM16du53NramA
There have been a lot of divisive issues in this countrys history and you just have to keep on keeping on rather than pander to fuckwits like determined anti vaxers.
I agree with not pandering to nut jobs ( which is not to suggest all the 5% had the same rationale). You end up in discussions with people who seem rational that have really weird ideas like the vaccine is killing loads of people in NZ. Despite the fact they don’t know anyone, who knows anyone that died they still believe it. You ask how can that be with such incredibly high vaccination rates, that have they no examples or connections to these large numbers….crickets.
This was everyone’s rabbit hole. There is no-one outside of it.
The public division can only be repaired by stopping the pretense of good/right/informed/sane versus the opposite in what happened.
Information lies outside of images and identities. ‘Should’ cannot logically, that is, independently, arise from ‘is’ – even before establishing the truth. The problem is that retrospectively finding ‘is’ or ‘was’ is now so entangled in good/right bad/wrong individuals that our collective rabbit hole just keep getting deeper as everyone is trying to defend their identities as ‘good’.
No-one is separate from this. There is no individual or group that was ever outside of the rabbit hole.
Well put. There is a single information maelstrom – the greatest global propaganda machine in history, with a toxic reactionary periphery. We’re all in it.
Suppose their are those people that had a reasonable grasp of science, particularly the fundamentals of biochemistry, immune systems, vaccines, viruses, statistics, and so on, which pre-existed Covid. Then when covid comes along and the explanations of the situation and actions recommended by the scientific community are entirely consistent with that knowledge base of scientific facts, I am not sure you can say those individuals fit the definition of being in a rabbit hole?
The anti-mandate crowd then moved on to supporting groundswell, then to the Posey Parker tour, supposedly in the name of free speech. They keep shifting their narrative; it turns out that there weren’t thousands of deaths from the vaccine, and the bots in the vaccine weren’t activated when they thought it would happen, so what do they come up with? Over the next couple of years, supposedly thousands of vaccinated parents will start dying off, creating thousands of orphaned, unvaccinated kids. Who knows why some of them think this. It changes so quickly, it’s hard to keep up.
“The anti-mandate crowd then moved on to supporting groundswell, then to the Posey Parker tour, supposedly in the name of free speech.”
Its all interconnected, the latter, upholding free speech is important, while the former two, anti-mandates and groundswell is all about using free speech to help protest against government actions. This is why free speech is under attack (by govt)…
The rest of what you have said is just cherry picking rubbish to suit, a distinctly human trait that most of us are prone to doing.
Ground Swell are free to spout their rubbish are you suggesting they aren’t?
Posey Parker is f’ing idiot and she has not been stopped by any authority ( the same govt that let her in ffs). Yes Albert Park was wrong but that wasn’t the govt suppressing her
Free speech is under threat – wokeness is one of the tools being used to undermine it. Misinformation/disinformation also threatens free speech.
These threats didn’t come out of thin air…they are here for a purpose….
Let’s see if I understand.
When Gary says “ I am not anti vax and I do resent being labelled as such.” he is invoking the rest of us to be woke, ie take into consideration his feelings on the matter when addressing him. So because that is woke it is invalid and in reality him trying to suppress free speech. Therefore he must be part of this shadowy force that is working to suppress all free speech.
Wow, the shadowy ones are so clever you just can’t ever let your guard down. We need to organise a protest against antivaxxers to stop them suppressing free speech!
Everything is out in the open my friend, the dots/connections to each other can be made thereafter.
Connection 1 – seriously divisive policy/actions have hit the people in recent years
Connection 2 – ways need to be found to ‘limit’ the reactions to them
Connection 3 – misinformation/disinformation, wokeness as a form of cancellation/censorship have grown in use around this same period, just to name a few new kids on the block in the censorship/suppression camp
This is just the starter for ten between the public push back of certain government actions.
As to your Gary point. you are arse about face on that one. The anti-vax tag is meant to slur, to divide, to hurt, to invoke a negative feeling, and this is an accepted action, from government down. As such, what Gary has to say about the tag doesn’t matter. This is the opposite of woke.
Steve, that’s spin.
Parker had her supporters. Some might have been anti-mandate but this hype is just another game the media is playing.
When journalism loses its independence and starts trying to set agendas and spin in cartoon-level simplistic narratives, the populace is in real trouble. Democracy can’t function without some reasonable level of plain information.
The political landscape is not a children’s story.
Interesting that you think it’s spin. It’s my observation of people I know who have gone on that exact trajectory. When they were protesting the mandates they weren’t mentioning supporting farmers or anti-trans activists. That all came later. And they have free speech, they still do, that’s why they were and still are allowed to protest. Just because the medias describes what is going on doesn’t make it “spin” either. But then if disbelief of the media is your first response, that’s understandable.
You are thinking of these people as conscientious objectors Martyn. This where the ‘enemy;’ is at a neighbourhood near you, and me. People who decided they didn’t give a f..k about you and me. It seems wrong to banish them for ever, yes. But don’t make out that most of them are not deserving of being upbraided and should accept it with a little humility if they know what that is.
That was a winning narrative, the old if you are not with me then you are against me, further refined to if you are not with me then you don’t care for me…or anyone else. Brilliant strategy by our unelected rulers. Love to see the science/study that proves this to be true though!
People in hospital or mortuary who have the virus have had it passed to them by sneerers (and sneezers – remember at the start how one person cleared a supermarket aisle at speed when sneezing!) Were you one AO and other smart-minded, self-centred people with retorts (not scientific ones)? While not everybody could cope bodily with the vaccine, it was a thoughtful intellectual exercise to do so if possible, but some of you might not understand how that works.
Self-centered is hardly me, while smart, being smart, I am too old to ever think I could be that. You, on the other hand, you are someone I would call highly knowledgeable and whom I have noted for years. In fact, people like you are the reason why I’ve rarely needed to say much, you, and others, say it all better.
Unfortunately, we are on opposing sides on this issue, in fact, I have come out of the woodwork because most people I used to agree with are on the opposite side to me, as far as this issue is concerned.
Now, as for your point. Sneezing and coughing, either deliberately or at others has always been bad form. No excuse for it. But you are talking about an incredibly isolated incident here. More importantly, the science or study that proves that the unvaxxed were ever a threat to the vaxxed was never out there, either then or now. Likewise, the study that shows that the unvaxxed are callous and cold, again, not out there. All that is, is unsupported narratives designed to help achieve a specific end.
Narrative or shaping public opinion, incredibly, incredibly important and effective tool indeed. Unfortunately for us, in my view, used against us rather than for us
Very thoughtful AO. But I think that ultimately it is 20th century thinking. And we must take steps to enable us to think around AI and the mega rich. How long before the financial system of the earth that we use for bartering and bribing, crashes or can we be squeezed into mass suicide, like Jones group in Belize? Like the group in various countries as https://www.britannica.com/topic/Order-of-the-Solar-Temple. Rational discussion cannot be the only response to the anti-vax thing there is emotion on both sides and also necessity of acceptance like going to the dentist.
Greatly appreciate the sentiments, Martyn, even if various facts of the matter are still up for debate.
Mass *public* vaccination campaign I think you meant. The most notorious of typos.
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