Erica Stanford, Kiri Allan clash over nurse immigration settings in fiery debate
National’s Erica Stanford and Labour’s Kiri Allan have clashed on AM over whether New Zealand has the right immigration settings to entice nurses to the country.
Let’s be very, very clear here – if National win in 2023, they will do exactly what Key did and throw open the immigration flood gates and pretend that false inflation of migrant workers equates to growth.
Auckland in infrastructure gridlock and renters are the collateral damage of National and Erica Stanford’s mass immigration.
National is nothing more than a front for Chinese business interests and their voting base are the farmers and hospo/mass tourism industry that requires migrant worker exploitation so National’s immigration solutions are more morally akin to a drug dealer wanting more drugs.
The solution to nursing shortages is to offer NZers free education and allowances in return for bonding theme here. What makes me choke in laughter at the rights framing of the nursing crisis is that they NEVER look at the huge loans we saddle Kiwis with when they become nurses. Of course they – like all students hit with debt – run offshore to find the wages to pay that debt off.
Instead of admitting the neoliberal version of user-pays education is fucked, what do National want to do? Import cheap nurses from the Philippines while our local nurses flee the debt we saddle them with and National have the intellectual dishonesty of calling that a solution!
You think life is tough now, wait until National throw open the immigration flood gates once again to prop up their industry mates who require exploited labour.
Kiri Allan was polite.
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The Chinese business interests are a front for the CCP.
Try talking to a Chinese business operating in NZ. If they don’t pay the CCP, their business is systematically shredded.
That makes it okay then.
Yep, Farrar is banging on about how anti immigration Labour is. Guess he believes Nats can get some election time campaign milage with this one.
Another “Rock Star Economy” on the way.
If NATZACT get in then the property speculators will be invited to lead their hill billy rock star economy.
I watched it and thought Kiri got rattled but kept her cool.
Yes Bob ,Kiri was at a disadvantage, there was Erica Stanford quote Ryan Bridge ( the immigration guru) sitting up like a prissy Madonna, then we only have Kiri’s head shot on zoom. Someone should tell Kiri not to be so disadvantaged in future.
Perhaps immigration of people like nurses and doctors would be a good thing?
Yeah good for Australia, because that’s where many are going. Perhaps importing hordes of slumlords and bottle shop owners not such a good thing for this “country”?
Agree with slumlords and bottle shop owners not good.
Good luck with National stopping that Bob
Please read Martyn’s article.
It would be a short term fix, whilst reinforcing ongoing poor working conditions for doctors and nurses and bringing all the incipient problems associated with mass immigration.
What we need to do is move AWAY from running health as a profit making business, and return it to being a public service, run by health professionals for the people.
And incentivise more doctor and nursing students by NOT saddling them with crippling debt.
National offers to solve our neoliberal capitalist problems with…………….neoliberal capitalism. A sick joke.
“And incentivise more doctor and nursing students by NOT saddling them with crippling debt.” Hmm, you don’t go further with Martyn’s “bond them” solution. So the options are (i) free education with a bond or (ii) pay for your education and then work for higher wages overseas. The old trick of how to make a decision comes to mind – rule a line down the middle of a piece of paper and divide it into pro’s and con’s. Under option (ii) put debt in the con column, in the pro column put the additional wages times a number of years to see which side weighs out the other. I bet the higher wages would. And don’t tell me that young people have to have absolute loyalty to the country they were born in…
Perhaps, if that didn’t usually mean nurse orderlies with maybe a month or two’s worth of training. You know, the kind of training that could easily be done here for our people. But then rest homes couldn’t pay minimum wage.
We have the best trained nurses in the world- just ask Boris!
Why would we swap them out !!
Yes, we should be educating our own nurses, doctors etc. And your bonding proposal sounds good to me. But why hasn’t LINO done this?
And yes, our user-pays tertiary education system is rubbish. But LINO has had 5 years to change it – why haven’t they? Answer – because their focus is almost entirely on identity politics.
Agree.
Childlike agreeing, embarrassing.
… and the continuation of neo-liberal economic policies.
The problem with Labour is they show no urgency or flexibility on this shortage of critical health workers. Other areas are suffering but health is the issue now. I saw the interview also, and felt KA was lost in all the good stuff they’re doing that will fix health in five years and forgetting that the health system is crumbling now. Regardless your politics on immigration we need doctors nurses teachers midwives and everybody else NOW. There has to be flexibility with this. If you think National will let to many workers in, get the Fucking Government to let the ones in that we need NOW. The valid reason for more immigrant workers immediately, is to cover Covid vacancies. A temporary problem yes but also critical. Those on the left who wring their hands and say why aren’t we training these needed people. Well this government isn’t, forget the last one. We need people NOW.
We have and are going through a pandemic. Many western health services have crumbled under pressure. We are now suffering because of years of underinvestment and underfunding. It takes years to train health professionals, there is no shortcut. Do you people want the equivalent of leaky buildings in health. Not so long ago. the DHB’s did not have any nursing vacancies, there were no jobs for new grads, there was no meaningful pay increase’s under the key government, when you go to the ballot box in 2023, remember all this for the mighty tax cut for the wealthy. Health and education will suffer yet again. Erica Stanford wants nurses to come straight in with no bonding, just remember leaky buildings , this what will happen in health. We let nurses in fast track and then they fast track out of here to Australia.
Three nurses in my family Queeny. I know what the situation is. What do you and your lefties suggest to deal with the problem now. Not next year. Or shall we take a punt that not too many die because they can’t get treatment.
I am a nurse been one for 50 years New View, certainly seen some changes over that time. What I have seen in recent times is underfunding of the health system and a systematic breakdown of the work force over time coupled with a pandemic. Us lefties are well aware of the flaws and gaps in our health system brought about by you righties who insisted on running hospitals like businesses and these businesses were ALWAYS in debt and only a concerned with the mighty dollar targets not health. Ask your nurses in the family about no decent wage increases, no jobs for new graduates nurses and ask them about the fact that not so long ago the DHB’s did not have many nursing vacancies because they were busy trying to save money and were running down the nursing work force.
Who funds the Now gone DHB’s Queeny. Your Government who have had five years to up the funding. Your government who could make it easier for overseas Nurses to fill the gaps until your government can train more of our own. Your government has been running this shit show for two terms not National.
New view we are in the middle of a pandemic. It takes 4 years to train a nurse, 4years ago there were no nurse vacancies or new grad jobs. Did national keep up the funding NO, did they plan for this very rainy day NO. Did they give nurses pay increases NO.Did your family complain then NO. Do you even realize how long it takes to ensure that overseas nurses are even able to work in NZ. one size does not fit all. 50% of the health work force couldn’t even be bothered to get a free flu vaccination and this includes nurses.
Just this morning it was revealed the nurses assn had approached the government to increase training inNZ. Government refused. You think you are an authority but it’s only your opinion. My son Nursed in London and Napier. So has a good handle on how hard it is. My wife recently retired nurse, hostel trained. We know how long it takes to get trained Queeny you’re not the only nurse with any knowledge or opinions.
Just as yours and mine are opinions New View, we don’t hold any authority to dismiss Queenys opinion.
So point out where I’m dismissing Queenys opinions Bert. Looks the other way round to me.
Not an authority New View, just an informed opinion. The training was for more nurse practitioners to replace the shortage of GP’s. More and more the right wing opinions are right and the so called lefties wrong. You are quick off the mark to belittle my views but you have no real answers to my questions.
Queeny. I haven’t disagreed with anything you say. It’s you who don’t agree with me. Let’s keep it simple. I believe this government could fast track health workers and should have done this a long time ago. Increased wages and funding could Be done now. You don’t agree. So tell me what your solution is. The governments plan is long term. By the way the nurses in my family haven’t complained about anything.
My correction for reply not moderated. Government refuses to train more Nurses practitioners.
Oz, Canada and the USA also have a health staff shortage crisis.
National’s Solutions? Cheap Mass Immigration; creating a NZ Nomadland & Hyper Tourism!
MEDIAWATCH: All Labour have is reports and working groups
At an abhorrent cost.
Better spent on fulfilling promises.
Martyn and TDB is sounding increasingly like a Trump website:
everything is the fault of immigrants and those cunning, lying ‘crats in Washington/Wellington.
Yes Ada it’s very amusing.
First we were being told we needed educations if we wanted to get paid more, now we have student loans around our necks.
Then the Contracts Act was introduced de-unionising us and putting us all on individual contracts which has reduced incomes more rather than raise incomes. Doesnt matter how hard you work you can only expect the rate of inflation as an increase and that meant you basically were just treading water.
Then National came along this last round and reduced the skill level of migrants coming in, which competed directly with the rest of us. Migrants dont have a benefit system to fall back on which allowed employers to exploit them for their skills while not paying them their worth, this in turn drove down what kiwis could earn as we had to compete directly with migrants.
Labour has come to power and done nothing but let it continue, just tinkering around the edges of the Contracts Act by trying to introduce fair pay agreements but I can see that gone by lunchtime as soon as National get back in charge again.
This country is purely geared around what employers want, its no wonder so many of us leave to go overseas, they just want our vote and then walk all over us.
If I wanted to double my income, I’d be flying out next week. New Zealand is all about low wages & high living costs.
still won’t get a bang bang in OZ though dicky.
That’s one of the reasons why I chose to stay in New Zealand. I am also lucky that I can work overseas & still live here. A reasonable income & a nice lifestyle. Win win.
well good for you, selfish self-interest is a good indicator of the ‘why’ of someones politics.
Because voting Green & Labour really serves my self interest? Are you suggesting I should vote ACT in the next election?
vote what you like that’s why it’s called democracy dicky
Technically it makes no difference who I vote for, what matters if I can get whoever gets elected to act in my interests, as well as making the country a better & fairer place for everyone.
I agree with much of this, especially the student loan bit.
But here’s the thing. Labour have been in power since 2017 and have not done this or even put forward proposals like it. You can’t even excuse the period with Winston because as an old Muldoonist he’d probably have gone for this in a heartbeat.
Having said that you should understand that even wiping or otherwise helping student loans in specific areas like doctors and nurses is a temporary salve that might last for half-a-decade or so. Sooner or later our lousy economic productivity will catch up with us, in the sense that the developing world is catching up and will pass us economically, meaning that we’ll increasingly be unable to bribe those Philippine nurses and Nigerian doctors anyway.
Good points Tom Hunter.
Our productivity is already a laughing stock. Good comments Tom and Richard. This is why we are low wages. Too many small businesses. Not supported And struggling. Unlucky not to have more big businesses ( that labour hate). As is easier for them to raise productivity and wages. In this country there’s not enough and so no encouragement or competition to raise wages. Sad but true. Labour will tax the rich to feed the poor until everyone is poor. Well done Labour.
It was a pathetic interview / debate…. Ryan Bridge was anything but impartial … a hopeless journalist really with no integrity what so ever … they are supposed to be above all that.
In the end it just looked like 2 members of the National Party up against the Minister with one of the National Party members being in control of the narrative.
As for the staged question ie..re playing an interview to Kirri Alan, (from the day before), in which Melissa read 5 ‘yes’/or/ ‘no’ answer questions to a ‘business person’ from Queenstown, which just, coincidentally, so happened to be Erica Stanford’s immigration policy suggestions. Followed by Erica Stanford’s faux surprise at the questions mirroring National Party policy. The whole show is a joke and not in a funny way.
It is so vacuous, so staged and sooo brainless. I don’t know what Melissa is doing there, but if she wants to have a long career as a serious journalist she should get out before she loses all credibility by hanging out with that lot. There is always a price to pay when selling one’s self to the devil !!
We used to see exactly the same thing from that dreadful Paul Henry years ago on one of the breakfast shows ..usually going into bat along side the equally dreadful Paula Bennett up against an out numbered Labour Party MP..
Two against one again! That’s fair isn’t it ??
Kathryn Ryan on Radio N.Z is another one that springs to mind. It’s usually her talking over the top of the person from the left and then arguing alongside the person from the right.
Overall, these ‘panel discussions’ end up being a farce and more often than not no more that a party political broadcast for the National Party .
Oh my goodness at last a person who sees and hears what I see and hear. Grant you are so right
Well she isn’t wrong there will be another million citizens and no way to pay for it all just go look at Kiwiblog none of them learned their lesson from the last election.
Another million citizens into N.Z., 650,000 want to live and work in Auckland.
Pretty sure the motorway will cope?
Sorry for the quote from 2011.
Why are NZers so stupid?
I reckon it must be all that milk. It’s made us stolid, easily pushed around and easy to milk money from!
If we had drunk more coffee earlier in the 20th century and dropped down on the tea, we might not have sat down for a cuppa’ tea – probably adding milk. The tea came at an early development in our thinking, and diluting the milk effect, but not until high speed water-filtered coffee to get us vibrating at the right level to get our stopped atomic clock going. I humbly offer this answer to the rhetorical question.
I rate both Erica and Kiri. But this was a hands down victory for Erica on this issue. The policy is a dog and you could see that Kiri Was forced into defending something she well knows is a dog. In saying that she did handle it well but I felt sorry for her being in a position like this.
I think they both have big futures ahead of them.
Agree
No the whole programme is a dog.
Any immigrant who wants to come to NZ is obviously just desperate to leave where they are. People with options would not choose to live in a country where a wooden shed costs over 1 million dollars.
She’s a feisty one, Ms Stanford. And does her homework. Ms Allan has her work cut out to keep her in order. And whinging, whining Willis should watch her back – Ms S might be making an impression LOTO! …
When Ryan Bridge gives Erica Stanford all the air time what do you expect.
Bridge is a downright right winger rootin for the NATZ. He should be neutral and treat both parties equally instead of taking the am show over as a political party broadcast. He always gives his friend Chris plenty of air time. He has turned into a conservative boring tory nerd – he needs to let his hair down, reinstate his man bun, ditch his ties and be more outgoing.
Through listening to podcasts on ThePlatform I know there are over 400 nurses which were let go due to being ‘unvaccinated’ and many more nurses left on their own accord to avoid the disciplinary-process/deregistration.
I don’t know Australia’s policy on ‘unvaccinated’ nurses, but given the opportunity to work ‘unvaccinated’ in Australia or be unemployed in NZ – surely they’d choose Australia?
Also many overseas nurses which ARE ‘vaccinated’ might not wish to be forced to take additional shots, and as such NZ would be too high risk. It would seem the NZ Nursing Profession DO NOT want any ‘unvaccinated’ nurses back either.
So the remaining nurses are of course under pressures, yet another reason to avoid nursing in NZ, which is actually really sad for such a noble profession.
If I find the interview on The Platform I’ll link to it via a reply.
Zac nurses are health professionals who not only care for their patients but also educate and give medical advice TO PREVENT ILLNESS , this is based on research and science. So how on earth can an unvaccinated nurse give good medical advice based on research science and prevention to their patients.
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