There is a welcome change of direction in the government announcement yesterday that Aucklanders will be able to leave the city to travel around the country from mid-December by showing they are double vaccinated OR by producing a negative covid test within 72 hours of leaving.
It’s a sensible, safe, people-first approach. I think the same approach should be taken for teachers in schools, healthcare workers in hospitals as well as anyone wanting to visit a bar or restaurant, attend a concert or get their hair cut. If an unvaccinated person can show they do not have Covid then they should be able to do anything a vaccinated person (who could be infected but it won’t be checked) can do.
He waka eke noa.
We are all in this together and we should be a team of five million rather than an exclusive club for the majority who choose to be vaccinated. It makes no sense to exclude anyone from any freedom enjoyed by others if they can prove they don’t have covid. The priority must be to keep the community safe rather than limit the freedoms of those who can prove they are safe to move around the community but decided, for whatever reason, not to be vaccinated.
It was good to see Air New Zealand decide some time back to take a similar approach to the government for people wanting to fly. You must either show you are vaccinated OR that you have had a negative covid test in the 72 hours before flying. Unfortunately, Air New Zealand is not applying this policy to the airline workers they employ. Nonsensical.
I can understand the government’s focus on encouraging everyone to get vaccinated. It is the only way we have to prevent our health system from getting overwhelmed and therefore it will save lives. That’s the reason I am vaccinated.
However, it’s deeply worrying to hear and read comments like “I don’t want any unvaccinated teachers at my kid’s school” or “All frontline workers must be vaccinated”.
Surely ALL teachers and ALL workers must be able to show they are covid free when they turn up to work. Shouldn’t that be the FIRST priority rather than whether an individual is vaccinated or not?
I respect the rights of people to make their own choices in life, this is a country that has great freedoms despite what the AV mob say. While I strongly disagree with the AV mob which includes members of my own family, it is their right to do so, and nobody is gonna force them to get jabbed. But, protesting about the consequences of their own decision is illogical, probably futile and bloody annoying to the rest of us that don’t want to get infected by Sars2. That’s our choice, which happens to align with MoH mandate and is recommended by science and facts, not social media.
I struggle to understand those that have been vaccinated themselves, like your good self, agreeing with the AV mob. And your far from alone with this stance. A foot in both camps? Why get the jab if you oppose it?
I’ll say this again. If only, if only, if only the unvaccinated got infected with ‘Sars2’. If only…..
Nowhere does he say he is opposed to the jab that I can see, he says he is pro choice. He is opposed to the mandate ‘no jab, no job’ in many areas.
Given all the people I know who are not having the jab, teachers, lawyers, nurses, idwives etc. I would not refer to them as the AV Mob. These people do not get their information from social media at all. These are educated intelligent people whose choice I respect.
Everyone is deliberately misleading themselves. A study of over 600 covid cases and their households conducted by the Oxford university and published in the Lancet, found that vaccinated covid carriers infected unvaccinated partners at exactly the same rate as unvaccinated carriers. The partners were one third less likely to catch the virus if they were themselves vaccinated (25% c/f 38%).
The manufacturers of the vaccine have never claimed that it will prevent infection, only reduce severity and deaths.
The vaccinated are more of a danger as they are more likely to be carriers without showing symptoms; and compared to unvaccinated with a negative test they are infinitely more likely spread the disease.
The reasoning of this priority of vaccination to testing only makes sense if the vaccination is what matters, not whether the disease spreads.
D J S
People reading this piece and assuming the author is opposed to vaccination, or agrees with any argument put against vaccination, need to reread. And then ponder what they have read.
When comprehension is so poor, even with a clearly written piece such as this, what hope is there for ditching the fear and division?
I don’t think people are necessarily making that mistake – there are obviously people on both sides of the debate here so it has naturally created a conversation – which I think is a good thing. Whether anyone changes their mind is another matter!
Vaccines don’t make a jot of sense when one acknowledges the fact that a vaccinated person can transmit the virus the same as an unvaccinated one.
“the fact that a vaccinated person can transmit the virus the same as an unvaccinated one”
It’s just that much fewer of them do.
“There is a welcome change of direction in the government announcement yesterday that Aucklanders will be able to leave the city to travel around the country from mid-December by showing they are double vaccinated OR by producing a negative covid test within 72 hours of leaving.”
Bound to speed up the spread of Covid but I expect the government decided it was the lesser of two evils. Telling a whole bunch of people they couldn’t leave Auckland when everyone else could would have proved too problematic.
Except that the policy is illogical.
The science appears to be indicating strongly that vaccinated people can just as easily catch and transmit Covid-19 as unvaccinated people. So if we think testing of asymptomatic people is necessary (which is highly questionable) then we should be testing everyone regardless of vaccination status.
Requiring testing of only those who are unvaccinated is illogical – and therefore discriminatory.
If you think these vaccines protect you then you are welcome to get yourself vaccinated.
If you think these vaccines protect you then you do not need to be concerned with whether I am vaccinated.
You look after your health and I will look after mine.
“The science appears to be indicating strongly that vaccinated people can just as easily catch and transmit Covid-19 as unvaccinated people. ”
Citation please.
Yes I’ be very keen to see where this science comes from also?
I did post an answer to the citation request. I do not know how the comments in this site are being moderated, but hopefully it is just a timing issue so I don’t want to unfairly accuse them of censorship. If it doesn’t show up I will try again.
I probably sent the same link Darryl, with the same result. It is odd that they will print the query but not the material that matters. I suppose that it can remain a possibility that the important message was accidentally lost in the system. I have not had any success reposting comments or links that were censored .
It does indeed convey a more significant overall message than anything.
D J S
The problem is the unvaccinated will be taking up health resources that other’s can’t access when they get Covid. And for long periods of time.
The mentality of the unvaccinated is that when they get sick and die, it’s someone else fault aka the media that didn’t mention that the family was unvaccinated (according to TDB poster, may or may not be true but seemed credible) instead media spreads disinformation by blaming others (health system, first responders) for their father’s death. https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/covid-19/covid-19-delta-outbreak-glen-eden-father-of-seven-dies-at-home-daughter-says-he-tried-to-get-help/ and now will be a complaint that will need to be investigated, taking up resources, etc.
Many articles now about gang violence, who the woke support so much and gang violence seems to be escalating with all the woke love and enablement.
Sadly the woke, have created this sense of entitlement and individualism in those who put others at risk, whether through violence, drug smuggling or anti vaccination stance.
NZ woke helps and affirms and enables those harming others, while ignoring victims, the opposite of a decent society.
Normal people can’t stand it any more, and leaving NZ to get real wages, something that many unions seem to have given up on and going into social welfare payments for non workers instead (growing market).
The problem is the unvaccinated will be taking up health resources that other’s can’t access when they get Covid. And for long periods of time.
Just like those who smoke, are obese and play sport that damages them, have car accidents.
So what is your point.
You can’t ignore the unvaxxed and think that it is just their problem if they get Covid, because it affects everyone else. Think of the west auckland case with Covid when the man gushed blood as he died, not so good for the first responders….. Long Covid will take up hospital beds and more disability benefits.
Likewise obesity is a growing issue (1 in 4) but takeaways are the new normal, so seems to be being encouraged in NZ with hospitality joined at the hip to politicians donations and lobbyists. Most dangerous sports at least have some health benefits like exercise… although those that are dangerous and don’t involve exercise are a problem.
I don’t know what the answer is, but some people seem to think that the unvaxxed will die of Covid and the problem will go away, after each case taking up weeks in ICU for example or long Covid, means other people don’t have access to ICU health care for other illnesses and there will be an increase of those who don’t fully recover indefinitely.
Your comment was interesting because you obviously understand the problem of wokeness. But you don’t seem to have connected it to what is going on. The entire policy framework of our government and mainstream media narrative is riddled with the wokeness, safety-ism, paternalism and a bunch of other isms. Wokeness involves entitlement – I agree. But not individualism. If you know the intellectual background of wokeness you will know that wokeness is antithetical to individualism.
If you really are unhappy with how wokeness is impacting society then you might want to re-think which side of the Covid debate you want to be on.
A lot of people who are critical of the government policies and mainstream narrative were already tired of the wokeness before Covid came along, so they decided early on to stop drinking from the firehouse of mainstream media hysteria and find credible alternative sources – which they did. I strongly recommend you look at what these many highly qualified and experienced scientists and doctors around the world are saying about what is happening. You won’t regret it.
I think wokeness is very similar to individualism. AKA many woke are only interested in themselves, their rights etc. The far left and far right are increasingly very similar.
I agree that there probably is an underlying selfishness in wokeness – self-absorption seems to be prevalent. But philosophically wokeness is about groups – oppressed, oppressor, black, white, etc. They view rights as group rights. Yes you are an individual but your “identify” comes from the groups to which you belong, and those groups define you.
Do you know James Lindsay? His New Discourses podcast is fascinating.
I agree that there probably is an underlying selfishness in wokeness – I would call that self-absorption though rather than belief in individualism. But philosophically wokeness is about groups – oppressed, oppressor, black, white, etc. They view rights as group rights. Yes you are an individual but your “identify” comes from the groups to which you belong, and those groups define you.
Do you know James Lindsay? His New Discourses podcast is fascinating.
Not sure what is going on here. But some of my comments are appearing and some aren’t. Seems a bit random.
Today’s covid case in Palmerston North: “The player had tested negative on Monday and went to club training at the Manawatū Cricket Association’s indoor training facility on Tuesday night, then felt unwell on Wednesday, had another test and it came back positive…”
So can we really depend on a test within 72 hours of travelling, teaching, or other? When did this person become infective?
Comparing the right, of those who claim to be safe, to leave Auckland with the right to employment, is trying to compare unlike situations. The latter ignores the right of an employer to refuse employment to someone who may be unsafe.
I agree mikesh, John M is grasping at straws by trying to compare apples with rocks.
The conditions set by the New Zealand government for passage out of or in to Tamaki makaurau from 15 December will be unenforceable. It will end in a farce if allowed to proceed as planned.
John does have “a foot in both camps” because he is hoping against hope that the government will formulate a policy on Covid which is morally acceptable and yet makes practical sense. Little chance of that I am afraid.
For a more comprehensive explanation of why Jacinda’s Covid strategy will be a socially divisive fiasco I suggest you see “Vaccine mandates: Why they are wrong” at http://www.republican.co.nz
Thank you John for having wisdom in the face of unreason. And the bravery to express it.
You are talking to an idiot so do not waste your time . They do their research with one finger on Google and type in why is it not a good idea to get vaxed and surprise surprise it comes up with cases.
If the dangerous covid disease is to be knocked on the head like polio and other vaccine cured diseases then 95 -100 % vaccination will be required. Without it, new variants will keep evolving.
New Zealand babies have been getting vaccinated for measles, mumps rubella, whooping cough, diphtheria, tetanus, chickenpox and teenagers for tuberculosis for generations. Most of the anti-vaxxers will have had these vaccinations and their health is greatly enhanced from having them. Why is there any drama at all about getting vaccinated? What type of person truly believes they are only free if they can infect other people with a deadly disease. Aids victims who knowingly infect others are sent to prison!
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