Hurry up and take 3 Waters already

1. There are very good arguments on either side of this issue. Maybe as divisive as the Springbok tour? Time will tell and 2023 is getting closer by the day. I’m not looking forward to this next election.

   • Should be fun with Winston and NZF back in the mix, could be a National/ACT/NZF Coalition if they can put together enough votes.

2. 3 waters makes sense to me, though I must admit I haven’t read a lot about it. But just almost all councils screaming no was enough for me to comprehend the mess our waters in. What are councils so terrified of exposing? There’s no asset grab, council is local govt. They are our water assets and they need bloody fixing, get it done! Ban water exports too. How th fuck did they think that was a good idea?! Just greedy short sighted ticket clippers

3. Nice try Martyn but no, there’s nothing to prove that amalgamation, centralisation and a lack of local control and accountability will lead to any of the benefits you’ve suggested. Super city anyone?
   There are some places with problems – Wellington’s waste water for example but most of our country’s systems work well under local ownership and control, perhaps some targeted tax payer funding or cheap loans is all that’s needed for those few that are struggling.
   You’ve chosen not to mention the proposed 50:50 control of Iwi. What’s all that about? How’s that supposed to help with the problems, such as they are. That aspect alone will be deeply and widely repugnant and reason alone for most to want these fools, this “if it ain’t broke, fix it till it is” party out of power for a very long time.

   • Absolutely David.
     And why did the minister lie about being voluntary and distort the financial figures by four fold?

     Unmandated Maori co ownership is the real agenda.
     And government control of your life even how much water you drink.

     New Zimbabwe. “Correcting” perceived injustice by creating massive new ones.

4. I agree Martyn. The old mantra of ” if it ain’t broke etc” However, even the councils know it is.

5. At least we might get some clean water, Judith, David and Winston should start getting protests organized immediately. Bring back Winston this wouldn’t of happened under his watch. Another Neoliberal Asset Grab

6. At least we might get some clean water, Judith, David and Winston should start getting protests organized immediately. Bring back Winston this wouldn’t of happened under his watch. Another Neoliberal Asset Grab

7. Nope, time and time again shows the government centralising everything just creates more neoliberal nightmares, higher prices and privatisation with new governments and PPP’s. Our central government can’t even build houses anymore, and their ideas fail and make everything worse for everyone.

   Pretty sure most Maori want to control their own water on their own properties not have some ‘central’ body telling them what to do!

8. As a diehard Socialist I would love to see water in public ownership and responsibly managed for the whole country but is that what will happen with this scheme?
   The key name here is: DAVID PARKER.
   A few years ago I was at a public meeting where David spoke long and movingly about how he personally felt about providing clean, sustainable water for all of us and provided photographs and diagrams of how rivers and lakes were being polluted. Eugene Sage was also there but noticeably quiet while her boss was doing all the talking.
   He spoke about the need for changes in agriculture and forestry to reduce water use in vulnerable areas. It was all quite moving.
   Then I spoilt it by asking a question.
   I asked what actions the government would take to force changes in the use of water for irrigation and to prevent pollution.
   They were both quite shocked and said they did not believe in the use of compulsion when individuals can be persuaded to change their practices.
   If I understood David Parker correctly he said state intervention to control water would interfere in the operation of the free market. He is a true disciple of Roger Douglas and Milton Friedman.
   So I submit my evidence that ‘3 Waters ‘ will continue the sale of water by private companies. Given Parker’s support for Free Trade deals that allow more overseas investment here I do not see him stopping the sale of water to foreign countries.
   What to do? Change my vote? National or ACT might not let ‘3 Waters’ go ahead but they will do sweet fanny adams about stopping the sale and defilement of our resources to their major donors.
   We need a Revolution rather than a change of political parties.

   • The Old Neoliberal Mayor of Auckland has changed the colour of his spots, wanting to keep hold of his assets in the old days he would have sold it under the table to the likes of Fay Richwhite and Alan Gibbs.

9. If the lunatic fringe of the capital city’s council were as keen provide rate payers with a decent water supply as they are to have the whole town speaking te reo, then this sort of water reform would not have been necessary. Of course there’s always a risk that in due course it will be privatised, but the Wellington City Council can just pop off and paint another Rainbow Pedestrian Crossing to show their dedication to the LGBTQ community who seem to call their shots much louder now than the boring old ratepayers looking at boring their own backyard wells, and wondering why they even bother voting at all.

10. Ownership and control are indeed the most important part of rationalisation of water. Labour is neo liberal through and through so it will not be promoting public ownership that’s for sure. A whole bunch of infrastructure needs to be restored to full public ownership–power generation and supply being the main one–not more items handed to private capital on a plate.

    Phil Goff and the Supercity have Watercare, an undemocratic CCO, and Phil obviously wants to protect that little fiefdom, which is an interesting conflict with his Labour Caucus mates

    Put rain water collection tanks and systems in now folks! even if you just use them for the garden or something, I have used them for decades in the Far North and no problems. I must find out too what the Havelock North attitude to getting a handle on water quality is!

11. It seems we are now constantly hearing that the Government intends stealing assets from the Councils with Three Waters. BUNKAM! The assets belong to the ratepayers who paid for them. Unfortunately, too many Councils have lost sight of their part of the deal and have failed to ensure the assets have been maintained and future-proofed on behalf of the citizenry.
    In the past, Councils actually did the administration and physical maintenance of the 3W infrastructure. Now, they ‘contract out’ so in fact, the Council ownership is pretty bloody hollow. Case in point, a watermain ‘blew’ in Khandallah (Wellington) recently. The leak was temporarily sealed and the the bitumen was patched. The next day, it took a team of six workers and four trucks a number of hours to effect the repair. Of course, the work was done by a major national contracting outfit as small local contractors have been starved out by the ‘big boys’. This was on the pretence that Council workers only leaned on their shovels. Good thing now is that more workers spend more time sitting in their trucks while one or two do the work.. The bad part is that the ticket clippers and shareholders make all the profits while the defective ratepayer funded systems fail to deliver.

    Time for a change!

    • Absolutely AOM.
      Some struggle with change, they wouldn’t with a right wing government though. Where were the howls when National were selling off our power companies even after a referendum clearly voted no. Can’t remember seeing these negative comments then. Our power bills have never recovered.

    • You think the situation you describe is going to get better when a big regional entity with an appointed board contracts water management to an overseas corporate that uses the same contractors?

12. Descendants of the people living there in 1840 to have control over the governing body to the exclusion of current citizens? Ngai Tahu as a major commercial water user in the South Island to have half the seats on the decision making body? In Wellington iwi that had only driven out the previous inhabitants in the 1820s and 30s? How did it come to this?

    • The water quality was probably a bit better in 1840, than it is today, it has got worse under industrialisation and especially over the past 40 years under Neoliberalism.

      • Ngungukai. Agree. And it was better fifty years ago when we were children and spent all day down at the riverside, in and out of the water the whole day long, while the men fished, and mothers brewed billyfuls of water, and we were all the better for it, and the schools and parishes held their annual picnics at those sometimes chilly, but always sparkling clear fresh waters. Stories for grandchildren.

        • Used to fish and swim in the Selwyn River at Coe’s Ford 40-50 years ago when I lived in Canterbury, I hear now that the river doesn’t even flow down that far, was studying Agriculture and Watershed Management at Lincoln at the time.

          • Selwyn River was where we went too, and occasionally the Waimakariri. The men went eeling with spears, and I swear the eels never tasted muddy, just pan fried and dolloped with vinegar. As a child the spears were ok to me, any squeamishness came later, with the years.

            And if water issues were studied that long ago at Lincoln how come things are so bad now ? Oh, I know. John Key said that scientists were like lawyers, and that one could always find another one to provide an opposing opinion, and what’s more, I think he said it to a BBC bloke when he, Key, was trying to discredit top water scientist Mike Joy. That’s the way that know-nothing politicians can evade taking responsibility for just about everything under the sun.

13. I can’t remember quite when it was but early this century councils were required to rate for depreciation of assets to enable their replacement at a later time. What will happen to these funds, will they just disappear into the labyrinth of council finances? As for Phil Goffs wailing that ratepayers will loose control of their assets,
    what control do ratepayers have over Aucklands Watercare set up?

    • That is an excellent point. Councils have depreciation reserves associated with 3 waters assets, and, as long as they rate-funded the depreciation, they should have investment funds. If they have loan-funded any assets then the debt will get offset against the investment funds and the net amount settled on transfer. Of course if any councils have spent the money and have been less than transparent in their accounting, maybe central govt will say that is something for the councils to discuss with their ratepayers.

14. Ok but they should allow us to elect a regional representative to be on that board instead of a bunch of wellington bureaucrats or pay each council what rate payers have spent on their infrastructure for example chch has spent $7 billion fixing it’s water infrastructure, if they want it they should buy it off the councils.

    Id prefer an upper house that deals almost entirely with constitutional, environmental issues than a bunch of unelected neoliberal wellington bureaucrats and a bunch of neoliberal iwi who ruin everything they touch.

    This is just gonna allow a nat/act govt to privatize water.

    I want provincial govts like Canada and an upper house to prevent water being sold off by neoliberals.

15. ???? What have you been smoking?????

    Labour have decided to fix the mess our water system is in (like they fixed housing and infrastructure?) and the super brain David Parker (mastermind of the TPPA and Labour’s unelected mastermind of neoliberal practise) is driving this.

    • After reading your comment I will sleep a lot better tonight know that Labour have it in hand . This is the same Labour government that is organising extra nurses and doctors through MIQ after waiting 18months of doing nothing. This is the same Labour government that has ensured a bulk of Maori are protected by vaxination after listening to their leaders . This is the same Labour government that has had the planned rapid rail in Auckland blow out from 1 billion to 10 billion.

16. Dear Ngungukai, I can assure you that the waters in all the communist and socialist countries were polluted as well and many times more.

    • Deka same as here in NZ, so we need to fix the problem.

17. So after the corporates have the water what next ? The only thing left will be the health system . And then the cupboard was bare .

    • National/ACT and Labour all guilty of flogging off State Assets

18. it simple the local council have reached there borrowing limits they have 138 billion dollars plumbing bill because of decades of neglect so nats and act should telling how this bill is going to be paid and farmers have had a free run for decades externalizing there there costs water theft pollution what there really pissed off about is having to pay the true cost for water

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