Why Is Labour So Frightened Of “Mr Stick”?


WHEN HITLER AND STALIN signed their Non-Aggression Pact in August 1939, war in Europe became inevitable. The scales of Appeasement having fallen from his eyes, the British Prime Minister, Neville Chamberlain, introduced the Emergency Powers (Defence) Bill, which the House of Commons duly and swiftly passed into law. The legislation provided the British Government with the all the powers necessary to fight a modern war.

Here is a sample of the wording:

His Majesty may by Order in Council make such Regulations […] as appear to him to be necessary or expedient for securing the public safety, the defence of the realm, the maintenance of public order and the efficient prosecution of any war [in which] His Majesty may be engaged, and for maintaining supplies and services essential to the life of the community.

The reference to “His Majesty” should be read as “The Government of the United Kingdom”. An “Order in Council” is pretty much the same as a decision arrived at in Cabinet. What the Act empowered, in its essence, was a Government that could do whatever it considered necessary for the safety of the people, the life of the community, and the defence of the realm.

If you are wondering just what powers the Crown’s “Defence Regulations” conferred upon the Government, then the following should provide some clarity:

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Defence Regulations may, so far as appears to His Majesty in Council to be necessary or expedient for any of the purposes mentioned in that subsection:

(a) Make provision for the apprehension, trial, and punishment of persons offending against the Regulations and for the detention of persons whose detention appears to the Secretary of State to be expedient in the interests of the public safety or the defence of the realm;

(b) authorise –

(i) the taking of possession or control, on behalf of His Majesty, of any property or undertaking;

(ii) the acquisition, on behalf of His Majesty, of any property other than land;

(c) authorise the entering and searching of any premises; and

(d) provide for amending any enactment, for suspending the operation of any enactment, and for applying any enactment with or without modification.

More than enough power to get the job done, and quite enough to “put a bit of stick about” – if necessary.


*  *  *  *  *


WHEN THE WORLD HEALTH ORGANISATION declared a global Covid-19 pandemic on 11 March 2020, it should have been as clear to Jacinda Ardern’s Government as it was to Neville Chamberlain’s when the Non-Aggression Pact was signed, that the state would have to arm itself with virtually unlimited powers if it was to meet the challenges of the coming emergency.

When fighting Covid-19, the last thing Ardern and her ministers needed was the threat of legal pedants and anti-social elements tossing endless spanners into the anti-Covid works. One piece of legislation, before which all other pieces of legislation – The Bill of Rights Act, The Privacy Act, The Employment Relations Act, The Resource Management Act, etc, etc, etc – were required to give way, would be an essential weapon in the war against the virus.

So, why didn’t we get our own version of the Emergency Powers (Defence) Act? Why were Ardern and her ministers so loathe to put a bit of stick about? The “emergency” legislation that was eventually enacted to authorise the measures needed to combat the pandemic failed to confer upon the New Zealand Government the unequivocal authority that subsequent events have shown to be so operationally necessary. It was almost as if Ardern and her colleagues were frightened of wielding power – even when the safety of the people depended upon it.

Why was that?

Part of the answer lies in the Labour Party’s ingrained antipathy to state-wielded “emergency powers” of all kinds. Whether it be the laws that permitted the enrolment of “Special Constables” in the Great Strike of 1913 – the infamous “Massey’s Cossacks”: or, the Public Safety Conservation Act, which was passed by the right-wing Reform-United Coalition Government following the Unemployment Riots of 1932, and used to devastating effect by the First National Government of Sid Holland against the Waterside Workers Union in 1951; Labour was convinced such powers would only ever be deployed against the labour movement. Fuelled by this historical antipathy (and also by the libertarian spirit animating the Rogernomics Revolution) Labour’s Attorney-General, Geoffrey Palmer, repealed the Public Safety Conservation Act in 1987.

In the 34 years since 1987, that libertarian spirit has only grown stronger. Strongly influenced by the neoliberal hatred of any and all manifestations of decisive state intervention, the libertarian instincts of younger New Zealanders cause them to recoil from the very idea of the state “putting a bit of stick about”. (Unless, of course, it’s dealing with the purveyors of “hate speech”, or women who insist that a man cannot become a woman just by saying so, in which case, the more stick the better!) “Jacinda’s” generation doesn’t issue orders, it has “conversations”. Viewed from an anti-authoritarian perspective, this “light-handed” approach is admirable. From a public safety perspective, however, this political refusal to both demand and enforce compliance is extremely dangerous.

How, for example, is the goal of vaccinating 95 percent of the adult population against Covid-19 to be reached if employers are not given the unassailable legal authority to say “No Jab. No Job”? How is the long-awaited Vaccination Certificate to be made effective if legal pedants are free to test the meaning of “mandatory” in the courts? How would London have fared in the Blitz if vexatious litigants had been free to challenge the Blackout Order as an unreasonable infringement of the fundamental human right to let the enemy know exactly where to drop his bombs?

It is the Ardern-led Government’s unwillingness to follow the Ciceronian legal principle of “sulus populi suprema lex esto” – the safety of the people shall be the highest law – that lies at the heart of New Zealand’s rapidly deepening Covid-19 crisis. The generation now in power is, quite simply, politically allergic to adopting the hard-line policies required to rescue both themselves – and the New Zealand people – from disaster. Even when Ms Carrot’s “kindness” is so obviously failing, this Labour Government refuses to reach for Mr Stick.



  1. The wartime analogy is a good one.
    Imagine what would have happened to the equivilant of our anti lockdown protestors during a blackout in the middle of a German bombing raid on London.
    Cries of- “Staying inside with the lights off is a breach of my freedom” would have been dealt with swiftly.
    Deserters, recalcitrants, shirkers and malcontents were considered a threat to the survival of the majority and treated accordingly.

    • Excepting of course that bombs raining down are a very obvious and visible threat ie can see it with my own eyes where as Covid is more abstract in that you cant see it, very few people have direct experience with it and there are huge amounts of conflicting information about… rather than the blitz its more the war on terror.

        • You obviously have zero knowledge of NZ history and the death rate of the 1918 flu epidemic.That pandemic obliterated the Maori gene pool in the Far North.Visit any urupa up here and count the gravestones from that time and weep.

          • I’m afraid you are incorrect.
            p.s. Spanish Flu started in the USA, but they’re good at naming after others to hide their embarassment. And it’s most probably the same with Covid, out of Fort Derryk.
            IF health was the Govts concern they’d have trialled Ivermectin, improved the poors conditions etc etc as per previous other comments I’ve written, during our 18 months’ish hiatus.
            Clearly spending LOTs of money we don’t have on a drug that is a distaster was more important, for some unknown as yet, reason.
            If you’d like some useful history, Govts all too often do EVERYTHING to hide their mistakes rather than admit their error and change. Look at the last rushed drug, Thalidamide. Appaling Govt cover ups, both financially, medically etc.
            Lest we forget.

      • If emergency measures were to be introduced they would need to b e appropriate with regard to the threat. Against covid19 I doubt whether blackouts would be considered.

    • After vaccination Saturday has been and gone, and the numbers getting jabbed continues to slow, coming up against the die hard hold outs, who’ve completely bought into conspiracies. Can the govt decide on a date, before years end, that it will bring in last ditch raft of measures, to nudge up the vaccination rate, before the borders are opened? It could be called covid levy day. When the govt pulls all the levers available to it, so there is a financial penalty to those remaining unvaccinated on principle only, and not for medical reasons. Say for the unvaccinated, a .5% extra tax levy, and a .5% transfers levy on their bank transactions, a 5% reduction in pay to public servants including the whole military, a 5% reduction to anyone receiving any other govt money, such as student allowances, benefits, super, acc, etc. Even then, there will still be hold outs, but the extra money after levy day, can can pay their hospital costs, when they get covid. Why muck around?

      • The Government is unlikely to set a date or a target vaccination percentage (they don’t need another target to fail to meet), but they have indicated the direction they intend to travel in.

        If by some miracle they manage to stamp out the current outbreak, they stick with the elimination strategy (and say that was the plan all along), otherwise we’ll all be learning to live with COVID in the community & adapt accordingly. Masks, social distancing, vaccination passports, new traffic light styled control levels signalling risk etc will become part of everyday life, and rest assured those choosing to remain unvaccinated will likely pay a heavy price.

        Get vaccinated now, it takes time to build up maximum benefit.

  2. This doesn’t sound like the playback to every Left-wing (or even Right-wing) dictatorship in history……not.

    If you ask China, they will say exactly the same thing – safety of people is paramount. Democracy is dangerous to the safey, just look at wild America! We need complete surveillance, secret police, censorship, Uyghurs Muslim in camps (they’re all potential terrorists!).

    There is no right to zero or very low health risk, absolutely none. People do things thay may endanger me every day, including criminals. We live in a democracy, not a healthocracy. This is not the Blitz – 99% of people survive Covid and only 0.06% of the World population has died due to it – 3% of world population died during WW2.

    And by the way – that vaccine, good yeah (I got it) but it wanes and only partially reduces transmission. Its not perfect and just one part of the parcel. Finland stopped using Moderna for under 30 males due to heart inflammation issues. Israel, amongst others, vaccinated early and high, but is facing significant problems now. It’s thinking of a 4th jab! Is this it? Stop independent thought and hold out your arm forever if you want any freedom? Sounds like North Korea, without exaggeration.

    The Left is having is a mental meltdown. This Govt sat on their ego, did nothing on hospital capacity, treatment, rapid home testing, or building society’s resliance to the inevitability of Covid.

    Instead, it prefers we demonise the unvaccinated for its failures and grows ever-more desperate to portray anybody without is extreme views as death-cult capitalists. I wonder who/what human rights will be placed next on the mob-pyre for burning?

    • Agree completely – in just eight months of attacks by Germany during the blitz about 43,000 civilians were killed. Slightly different numbers and level of threat

      • This is becoming a pattern, Yeti. Just about every time there is a right-wing rant, you agree with it completely I think James’s opinions are just that.
        Biased opinions.

        • Hello In Vino, just checking that views that don’t conform to accepted left wing narrative are allowed? It would be a great shame if this blog which many enjoy became an echo chamber.

          I don’t always agree with everything written here however I always try to understand an alternative perspective and challenge myself to learn from it.

          There are as many different opinions in this world as there are people and as far as I know, no one is correct all the time, rather it’s through debate and the contest of ideas that we learn

          • Yeti I agree with you.I have been along time user of KIwiblog where their hypocrisy is overwhelming .They believe in free speech until it does not accord with their opinion and so they sort of cancel you.And nek minut bewailing the advent of cancel culture .Sheesh.Lefties are subject to scurrilous attack and then their robust replies are constantly moderated out.Go there very infrequently now ,they are becoming as censorious as the fat slug slater.

    • This Govt sat on their ego, did nothing on hospital capacity, treatment, rapid home testing, or building society’s resliance to the inevitability of Covid. – so many times this.

    • I’ll take the chance that the vaccine may protect me rather than the chance of not taking it and whether I may die. Israel and Finland examples you give show minimal side effects yet still promote vaccinations as the best method in minimizing covid effects, thus your information is skewered. As an aside what criminals endanger you everyday?

    • Israel dropped all restrictions at 67 % vaccinated. Against the advice of their epidemiologists. No MIQ no testing no restrictions on travel no testing of foreign travelers . Dumb arrogant and stupid. A child who had been on holiday in Nth Africa whose mother knew he had the symptoms of Covid but sent him to school anyway brought Delta to Israel. They are the authors of their own misfortune. Their government got it wrong.

        • I wasn’t aware I was agreeing with James. I am tired of Israel being held up as an example of vaccine failure when it is administrative failure on the part of the Israeli government that is the reason for their failure to keep on top of the epidemic. This is unlike anything experienced by humanity in a very long time. There are more people on the planet than there have ever been. Human contact spreads this novel lab created virus. The need to isolate and wear masks will be with us for many years to come.NZ has failed to hold it’s nerve. A number one priority right from the start was the need to build remote isolation facilities/ Epic fail. The failure to study the past and grasp the seriousness of the situation in terms of long term planning and consult more with other countries is another epic fail by NZ.
          We are never going back to the way things were.

          • Sorry Shona I wasn’t implying you were. I was agreeing with you. James was using the failed Israel data and if he continues to do so we are going to need a lot of body bags labelled” here lies the vaccinated”.

            The fact that people agree with James without any forethought is disturbing.

    • “The Left is having is a mental meltdown.”

      Are you kidding – who is in the media having a meltdown every day?

      muh rights, muh freedoms, muh business, muh independant thought, muh being sidelined and irrelevant, muh demons.

    • By Nick Spurr: Nurse
      To all my conscious objector friends & family, I love you & appreciate your right to choose not to become vaccinated, but here’s the thing;
      I’m vaccinated and, no, I don’t know what’s in it – neither this vaccine, the ones I had as a child and adult, nor in the hamburger I ate at the weekend or in vegan hot dogs or vegetarian sushi, or in other treatments. Whether it’s for cancer, AIDS or vaccines for infants or children. I also don’t know what’s in other over-counter-medications, it just cures my ailments..
      I don’t know what’s in the ink for tattoos, vaping, or every ingredient in my soap or shampoo or even deodorants. I don’t know the long term effect of mobile phone use or whether or not that restaurant I just ate at used clean foods and washed their hands. I also don’t know how much deadly asbestos is in the buildings I visit.
      In short …
      There’s a lot of things I don’t know and never will.
      I just know one thing: life is very short, and I still want to do something other than just going to work every day or having others in our community and country locked in their homes. I still want to travel.
      As a child and as an adult I’ve been vaccinated for mumps, measles, rubella, diphtheria, tetanus, whooping cough, hepatitis B, smallpox, polio, chicken pox, tetanus, influenza, pneumonia and quite a few others. My parents and I trusted the science.
      I’m vaccinated, not to please the government but:
      * To not die or become ill from Covid-19.
      * To not clutter a hospital bed if I get sick.
      * To live my life.
      * To help my community and country get back to normal.
      * For Covid-19 to be an old memory, as it will be eventually.
      * To protect us all – esp the elderly and those with cancer


      • Pragman, I have read all the posts, the good, the bad and the ugly. I’ve read the stupid, the uneducated, the I’ll informed, the selected Google sites to fit ones agenda.
        Nick Spurrs explanation should be a thesis for all in sundry and I’d add even posting here can be hazardous to your health.
        Congrats to Nick for the most accurate and Human of all covid comments and thank you Pragman for sharing.

    • “The Left is having is a mental meltdown.”

      I think you’re on the money!

      This has become a more and more regular ‘trait’ that seems to happen with Labour when they back themselves into the corner.
      1st they try to talk and bluff their way out.

      2ndly they then try to add a drop of complexity to it and make up some shit to confuse the public

      3rd they blame some or something or some group for their shortcomings

      4. They gameplan changes!

      5. There are a few ‘new’ developments and we are in unknown territory and we will have to readjust our approach!

      Who’s seen this and where are we now?

  3. The first people the government should use ‘the stick’ against are the big Aussie owned banks that take $3.5 billion out of our economy every year.

    To share the hardship of lockdown fairly, a government ordered mandatory nation wide Moratorium on all rents and mortgages so that the population can ride out another hard level 4 lockdown and eliminate the virus.

    The New Zealand government eliminated the virus in 2020 with a Level 4 Lockdown. We can do it again.

    The New Zealand government imposed a mortgage moratorium in 1914, to help the population overcome the hardship of the First World War. We can do it again.

    The New Zealand government imposed a mortgage and rent moratorium in 1931, to help the population overcome the hardship of the Great Depression. We can do it again.

    After all, it is not like the banks can’t afford it.

    And the beauty is, it won’t cost the taxpayers a cent.

    • What? The same big 4 they used to “pump and dump” our economy over the past 18 months by housing debt fueled one-off consumption. Don’t blame the players if the Ref allows them to get away with foul play

      • And Frankie the same Ref whom had the chance to stop the 501′ s from entering our country 10 years ago, given how they now appear to be super spreaders. You know this Refs name. If the snakes head was cut off then there would be no tail.

        • 100% agree Bertie. You have no disagreement from me. I would have given them the Darryl Kerrigan treatment.

          Moreover though:

          1). They are NZ citizen by birth right; ergo
          2). Deb Manning, Special K (Davis) and co would have been wailing from the bleachers about human rights
          3). We would have been in violation of various UN treaties; and finally
          4). Key or whoever would have caved in once the media ‘pile-on’ began

          Let’s face it outside of Peters we have or had no politicians that would have told the Australians “fuck off” and then belligerently refused to buckle.

  4. The psychology and philosophy underlying neo liberalism are strongly individualist to the detriment of collectivism–nearly every area of life since 1984 has demonstrated this to be so.

    “Me-me–me, did I mention ME”? was the official monetarist tagline long before the appearance of the widely mocked Karens of social media. It is thousands of “me’s” that have driven 18 months of whinging about every aspect of COVID response, that pressured the creation of a second tier middle class unemployment benefit, that still somehow sees international and regional travel as a right…

    Chris is correct that there are historical factors behind NZ Labour’s general antipathy to authoritarianism–despite what its right wing critics often say. Both Labour and National were happy to wield the stick against vulnerable New Zealanders though. The ’91 Richardson MOAB (Mother of all budgets) that cemented in the underclass that remains with us to this day, and Helen Clark’s “Jobs Jolt” that continued the demonisation and othering of beneficiaries.

    In 2021 we need collectivism to rise and rule again if there is to be any hope of not letting COVID Delta rip through this country. A lot of people across party divides are quietly getting on with obeying the rules and getting vaccinated despite what the media channels say–how else do 70% support polls emerge still supporting action on COVID rather than admitting defeat?

  5. Perhaps the most hideous version of the historical stick would be the execution of a deserter. Shot as an example to others that not to face the enemy and face probable death, meant facing the firing squad and certain death. Remembering that if one scared soldier ran they all might run. Fighting Covid, the more exemptions you give and the more choice you give the numbers who choose not to get vaccinated increase. No Government wants to use stick because it’s obviously unpopular. Votes. I don’t believe National would enjoy using it anymore than labour but just like with curfews and lock downs you do it because you have to. Labour will always try “ please “ first. Covid doesn’t give you time for that. By the time they wake up it’ll be too late.

    • I agree New View and you heard it hear first, I applaud Judith Collins( I presume for political survival reasons) for her Stuff column in promoting vaccinations. Filter out the obvious political nonsense and she is promoting from the same hymn sheet as Jacinda. Congrats to Judith for her message( still no fan of her).

      • True Bert. A bi partisan approach would be great but National are to busy scoring points and labour didn’t want to share the success they thought they had. If the shit really hits the fan they will be forced to work together on this at least.

          • Maybe Bi partisan would not have worked but most certainly b not for the reason you give, in fact the complete opposite.

  6. Those UK emergency government (state) powers came with the coalition of the Conservative and Labour parties headed by Churchill in control.

    “The cabinet changed in size and membership as the war progressed but there were significant additions later in 1940 when it was increased to eight after Churchill, Attlee and Greenwood were joined by Ernest Bevin as Minister of Labour and National Service; Anthony Eden as Foreign Secretary ”


    Before such war footing emergency powers can be enacted I would suggest that a coalition of Aall four parties currently in government would need to be struck.

    No way should should those powers be enacted with Labour solely in charge. That is not how to carry the people with you and to be beholden upon the state imposed restrictions.

    • An excellent point, Gerrit. What’s more, I agree with you. If Delta looks like getting away, Ardern should offer membership in a Grand Anti-Covid Coalition to all the parties in Parliament.

      • Chris,
        how about we mandate that all citizens must believe everything that the drug companies and government say and anyone not complying with this belief mandate will be hung in a public display. If that does not work we can then start hanging people who wear white shirts in public followed anyone who holds say christian beliefs

      • Do that and you guarantee Peters 20% and Bishop Brian +5% in 2023. Is that the type of Italian parliament you would want. I fucking don’t.

        Public sentiment is changing as it has in large sections of Europe and North America. The virus has a mortality rate of less than 1% with vaccinated people. The vaccine was sold as a ticket back to normality – if you re-arrange the deckchairs on this implicit pledge you risk election annihilation.

        Even in the Shire.

      • I have been arguing for a war footing and emergency coalition govt to tamp down the stupid shit coming from ACT/Nats which has fuelled the border breaches.

    • Gerrit I think that’s a very healthy perspective. Emergency “stick” powers wielded solely by the Labour-Green govt would quickly become the truncheon of ideology.

  7. It’s simple Chris. They want to win the next election. A police state even in Smug Hermit Kingdom is political cyanide.

    • Yeah, Ross….but you fullas got too carried away with the stick! 🙂

      If that’s the point you’re making, fair enough. But remember, this is the princess of ‘be kind(ness)’ we’re talking about. I’m sure Chris is speaking metaphorically?? Ay Chris??

      Putting all this pussy-footing bs aside. I agree with the sentiment, but, I would suggest one more piece of carrot with a note attached to it with the warning. “Eat now or forever hold your peace”.

  8. “Unless, of course, it’s dealing with the purveyors of “hate speech”, or women who insist that a man cannot become a woman just by saying so, in which case, the more stick the better!”

    For a moment there I thought you were going to overlook this important point, Chris. There will be plenty of stick for the “haters”.

  9. “Why was that?”
    A. Because we’re a capitalist democracy, labour and national must, therefore, be one and the same thing.
    B. Capitalism dictates that ‘business’ must continue conducting ‘business’. ( fascism never takes a holiday.Besides, it’s only a little disease and there are too many of us doing nothing to contribute to business anyway. )
    C. George Manbiot has a thing or two to write about that.
    The Guardian.
    “Trashing the planet and hiding the money isn’t a perversion of capitalism. It is capitalism”

    • Absolutely!!!! And Hate speech etc etc. How many submissions were there to the government on that one? Will it, did it make a difference? Mahuta has a big stick (mere?) and isnt afraid to use it.

  10. Maybe that UK war cabinet had something that New Zealand cabinets all lack. Low numbers to concentrate on the important issues and without the distortions and distractions from the twitter of more members.
    Decision making is direct and quick.

    UK at war 8 member cabinet. Population 47 million (1939)
    New Zealand at peace 20 member cabinet. Population 5 million (2021)

    No wonder no decisions are ever made. Too many voices, too many barrows to push, too much appeasement to various factions, too much room for incompetence to hide.

  11. Labour was pretty quick to put aside standard democratic processes, as well as use urgency & Orders in Council to change New Zealand’s world class firearms law & confiscate citizens lawful property, in order to protect us from the hordes of heavily armed foreign terrorists that roamed the country. Nash was all to eager to wave the big “5 years in prison” stick at licenced firearms owners, to get them to comply. As a result of their rushed & poor response, we ended up with some bad laws, over 100000 guns disappeared & worsening gun violence from real criminals. But obviously somethings are more important & urgent than others.

    • And the good guys gave up their hunting and target hobbies and the bad guys kept the armed robbery and intimidation tools.

        • I also enjoy archery and am not too bad a shot with my recurve or crossbow. As far as noise, a good suppressor reduces the noise & protects your hearing. I also prefer non living targets, so scaring them isn’t a problem.

          Pistol shooting was always my favourite target sport and was a lot of fun, though I had to give it up as I have too many other pursuits & too little time. I might get back to it one day, if no one bans it.

      • Yes, that would definitely be a priority over poverty, homelessness, the housing crisis, climate change, environmental degradation, the mental health crisis, over 600 suicides per year etc. Screw all the people those issues affect by doing little or nothing.

        But definitely rush through some poorly thought out laws that seriously failed, “lose” over 100000 semi autos, threaten law abiding citizens with prison time, fuel increased gun crime by real criminals just because the Police failed to follow our existing laws and armed a foreign terrorist. Sounds like sensible priorities to me.

        Oh and did you decide whether you are an idiot or a liar regarding firearm registration?

        And by the way, automatics are still legally allowed to be owned in New Zealand.

        • I guess you hate the poor & homeless then? And those that kill themselves were just weak? Climate change is just a hoax anyway, so why worry about that? Mental illness is just a lack of fortitude of character? New Zealand is 100% pure? Gang members & meth dealers are just entrepreneurs filling a market niche, and that’s good right? I imagine you were ok too with the taxpayer spending over $100,000,000 to buy new guns for licenced firearms owners?

          Simple solutions rarely solve complex issues. Legal firearm ownership was never the problem. All the Government managed to do with their law changes was waste an awful lot of taxpayers money & make the country less safe.

  12. How can the Gov’t swing the big stick against the dissenting public when half of their own mob are constantly undermining everything the Gov’t is doing to battle the Covid virus?. Did this happen in the war? If so what was done to stop opposition politicians from sabotaging the war effort. What do the dissenters think of this?
    Our frontline politicians on TV every night relentlessly opposing everything just for the hell of it. It’s old school confrontational politics and it needs to stop while this virus is loose. Extremely counter productive to our current war effort. Muzzle the fucking lot of them and we might get somewhere.

  13. Why Is Labour So Frightened Of “Mr Stick”?
    Probably because they’ll have to use it on themselves? Or their own latte coffee coloured lifestylers?
    They’re not into practising what they preach ay?
    Also, it will be in conflict with the championed ‘Be Kind’ campaign. Getting a bash along with been told we’re being kind kinda doesn’t have that same mummy-nurturing feeling ay?
    But more importantly and probably it would be helpful to know to is why they have given up on ‘elimination?’ You know, a ‘final solution?’
    Given that the public had resigned to this plan and had accepted it albeit begrudgingly. The public did not reject it! The government did! This means, once again! They blinked! Did they see their own shadow(s) again and piss themselves?
    What made them shit their pants? Was it an economic decision? Or was it a political decision because it certainly wasn’t for health reasons!
    I think they shat themselves because of the potential fallout politically and economically even though Robo and A Orr from the RBNZ have already lined up another $100b bazooka QE bailout!
    Let’s hope the widdle princess is getting ready to bail out this Christmas to let the grown-ups take over because after all.
    Her ‘be kind, go hard, let’s do this’ bs slogans have all failed to deliver anything of substance that will improve the lives of 24,000 kiwi’s living in motels, 190,000 kids living in poverty, the Homeless, no Houses been built in sufficient numbers, a failing Health system crashing under the weight of Covid. Terrorism where there were laws on the books, in the Crimes Act that allowed for the Terrorist to be arrested without a warrant and now this failure.

    That’s a long, long long list of failures in four years. So we can fuck that four-year term off too! We need an election now before the list of failures grows and we become a nation of bankrupt ‘we’ve done this!’ Failures.

    • ” We need an election now before the list of failures grows and we become a nation of bankrupt ‘we’ve done this!’ Failures ”
      And vote for who ?
      No one in the current parliament who will stand for re-election as its the best paid racket out there with the super and tax payer funded allowances to sit in parliament and pontificate on meaningless garbage and pretend they actually are going to do anything to address the serious imbalances of the economy so it delivers for all and not just certain groups will be re elected again to sit there and achieve fuck all except the vested interest whispering in their ear.

  14. Mr stick well you know what you can do with that stick Mr Trotter. I see a Mr stick approach to such an issue as acting more like Mr thick. And if you want to use a stick like how many of our elderly Maori got the stick for speaking our language (literally beaten out of them) you will see civil unrest and vigilantism. Better to be Mr carrot.

    • Rubbish Pa!
      This is completely different. Covid is an onslaught on the nation. It’s an attack. Everyone needs to defend. Those who don’t want to paddle the wakea need to he nudged…hard! Imagine yourself in a waka just sitting around doing nothing. You’d get slapped with a few paddles.

      • And to think that we could have started vaccinating in Jan when people still were scared of Covid. So much squandered time, so much bullshit of our elected officials sitting in the waka congratulating themselves to having been first in he queue and last to be served.

      • Your the one talking rubbish Kraut. If we as a country have not learnt anything from our past history dealings we will never learn and don’t apportion blame to our people.

    • Covid is pa. How many Maori do you know who were whacked for speaking Maori, and how much of this is myth ? I personally talked with two Hawkes Bay Native Schools teachers who said it never happened on their watch. Doubtless it did happen, but by and large Maori wanted their children to learn English, and donated land for school, hospital and church purposes. I think the first appeal to the Privy Council in London, was for the non-correct return of such land.

      Dragging it all up now and demanding the Crown apologise, is more trouble making divisive activism . The Catholic school girls whacked by nuns for not knowing their French vocab, or being seen talking to a boy in school uniform, aren’t running around demanding apologies, nor are the boys done for wagging school. . There’s no point, stuff happens.

      But dragging up ‘ sticks’ now to justify the behaviour of today’s malcontents putting the rest of the community in New Zealand at risk, and threatening civil unrest, serves no useful purpose whatsoever, and I’m not sure what your threat of vigilantism, entails, or even means, and using the Treaty to justify this is another false equivalence, and legal hogwash.

    • Covid is Pa: thank you honey, for your frankness and sharing. It warms my heart. Having beers now so prob a dumb comment from me. Cheers, Covid is Pa 🙂

  15. Maybe the government is worried to find out that the proletariat and the precariat is not afraid of the stick.

  16. Interesting facts coming from the USA — they (the USA Government) has stated they cannot vaccine their way out of the Covid pandemic, and most people will get Covid (just like the Flu)… Covid is with us forever.

  17. Good points about Neoliberalism and the me-me-me society it fosters along with populism being major hindrances to improving society let alone controlling a pandemic. And I agree that collectivism and dare I say socialism, are key to progress.
    Of course there are those who equate socialism with totalitarian states or communism. Why is criticism of the current type of Capitalism always met with Red Peril fear cries? Surely we are more intelligent than to fall into these same old reactions.
    We need a government that will not allow capitalism to trump people. That doesn’t mean throwing the baby out with the bathwater as some would have it. I suggest these Red Peril criers are propogandists of neoliberalism as they have a vested interest. They try to make out that more state ownership of services is setting us on a road to communism. This is a fear tactic and is patently, rubbish. There are plenty of examples of highly functional socialist democracies working hand-in-hand with capitalism. NZ was once included in this group.
    I suggest that the logical conclusion of neoliberalism and libertarianism would be a world where there are only private hospitals, schools and roads. It would be dominated by brats riding rough-shod over poor people’s shacks in their humvees saying “Who put that in my way?”

    • The basis of socialism is that the means of production are owned by proletariat which in reality means by state governed by a strong political party that has the power over all. Unlike you ( I suppose), I lived in the socialist state, Czechoslovakia, and though we were not living in such a misery as people in the Soviet Union I can tell you that this is not the way. The system itself undermines all initiative, responsibility for your own decisions and for your life. And the ideal of equality or even equity is just an illusion. There were top communists who had bank accounts in Switzerland and were millionaires etc. Socialism means dictatorship, like it or not. The state caring about all aspects of your life means loss of freedom that you appreciate fully only when you have lived without it.
      Alexandra Corbett Dekanova

      • I understand. This was not a socialist democracy enabling free enterprise which I obviously didn’t make clear in my commentary. I am referring to what NZ once was along with scandanavian countries and much of western Europe.

    • The core of socialism is that the means of production are owned by proletariat which in reality means by state represented by government of one very powerful politival party. The party has to have power over all spheres of economy and human lives otherwise the system won’ t work. It means that socialism is always a dictatorship, like it or not. By the way Marc called it the dictatorship of proletariat. I lived in a socialist country, Czechoslovakia, and though we were not living in such a misery as people in the Soviet Union, it was nonetheless a misery. Socialism, when the government cares about every sphere of your life, robbes people of all theit initiative and responsibility for their decisions and life choices and of their freedom which you evidently appreciate only after you had to live without it.
      The equity/equality in socialism is just an illusion. There were top party people who had their bank account in Switzerland and were millionairs, while all the others were crushed by low income and shortage of basic goods.
      Have a look at Soviet Story on You tube, that is the true portrait of socialism.

      • “How, for example, is the goal of vaccinating 95 percent of the adult population against Covid-19 to be reached if employers are not given the unassailable legal authority to say “No Jab. No Job”? How is the long-awaited Vaccination Certificate to be made effective if legal pedants are free to test the meaning of “mandatory” in the courts?”
        How the hell is it the responsibility of employers to mandate vaccination. If the government considers it necesary that all workers are jabbed why is it necessary to make employers the middlemen. the only possible rationalisation is to transfer liability for the inevitable side efects of the vaccine onto employers instead of the state that would be the ultimate enforcer anyway.
        The comparison trying to equate the danger of covid with the imminent threat of war with Germany is ridiculous.
        D J S

  18. God save New Zealand from Ms. Stick in the hands of this incompetent government. They clearly showed by their deeds that salus populi is not their suprema lex. The first thing they did after having been elected the second time was to declare Climate Emergency instead of Health Emergency though they knew very well the miserable state of our Health system and that we were in the midddle of the pandemia. They wasted heaps of money on plans and projects that have the only goals to centralize the power and to please the UN. Now they want to blame people who hesitate to be vaccinated by an experimental vaccine (mind you I have had two doses) for their own failures concerning MIQ, insufficient capacity of hospitals nad ICUs, shortage of doctors, nurses, late onset of vaccination process, no prevention, no early easily accessible and effective treatment etc. It is shame that people terrorized by fear start to yield to division into vaccinated and unvaccinated. The only honest thing this government can do is to resign.
    Alexandra Corbett Dekanova

    • Alexandria. I agree with most of your comment. All forms of Government can be corrupted but socialism can quietly steal your freedom when nanny state takes ownership. It works ok until it doesn’t. The state can’t run anything efficiently and already we are suspicious of “ three waters”. You have lived in a truly socialist society so know what freedom really is. I understand your view that this Government hasn’t taken health seriously as it promised and so the MOH response to Covid has been found wanting. I think you shouldn’t fear too much of any stick from this Government. It would be more like a wet bus ticket.

      • I disagree, New view. Alexandria has not lived ‘in a truly socialist society’.
        She has lived in the perverted, totalitarian USSR version, which would turn anybody against socialism.
        But it suits your agenda to present socialism that way, doesn’t it?

        • In vino So you have lived in a truly successful socialist society then. It’s my opinion. Iv’e lived in NZ when the state ran the big businesses. The potential for it to work is there of course but from what Iv’e seen is that the State doesn’t run anything well for long. It either get’s lazy and inefficient as highlighted in the series “Gliding on”, or gradually takes over everything and we work for the state. the state thinks for us and our freedom of thought goes with it. The MOH is a good example of how the state runs things. No thanks.

          • New View
            Have you worked in the public service? I have and it was so remote from Gliding On it wasn’t funny. Still I found that program funny. You’ll find slackers anywhere there isn’t accountability including the private sector. Also, most of us have to work for somebody. Whether its in the private sector or the public sector really does not matter. What matters is how we are treated. As a worker for 40+ years I can tell you that I was treated abysmally in the private sector whereas I was treated with respect as an honest and diligent worker in the public sector.
            As for the statement about the government not being able to run anything efficiently: Our “hopeless health system” saved my life when I had a cardiac arrest. I was really impressed and grateful for the way I was treated, from being flown halfway down the NI to the rapid response to a cardiac arrest in the hospital bed and the subsequent fast-tracking of my operation. It’s easy to criticise and for issues to become removed from the real life situation. We should be listening to the people at the coalface. I have been on both sides of it.

            • PM. It’s all opinion. You were treated poorly in the private sector, others have no issue. I have been treated well in the health system and my wife’s a nurse. Doesn’t make the health system any better so what’s your point. Politicians think they can run big businesses but for the most part they wouldn’t have a clue. They have bright ideas like Preeble selling the railway’s off or Muldoon with the think big projects. I’ve said my preference is a combination of state owned and private. I’ve also said that at the moment I think a coalition between the parties is needed to deal with Covid. I’ll finish my comments there.

              • So the health system works. It may not be a perfect model. It’s certainly not meant to be run as a business. It is of course struggling owing to underfunding in the past and a disconnect between management and the medical staff. The second point: since the employment contracts act was passed employers can treat staff any way they like. Hence workplace bullying is rife especially in small businesses as they don’t have an HR department.

        • Maybe it is the matter of terminology. We had to study Marxism-Leninism, its Political Economy, Philosophy and Scientific Communism, the compulory subjects of all University studies. And, believe me, the inevitable condition of socialism is ownership of all means of production by state which brings about the need of strong powerful government which means the loss of freedom. Maybe what you mean is capitalism with high level of various social care provided by state. But even in this case the balance is paramount e.g. benefits without limits create generational social misery while low taxes provide space for small businesses and sound middle class.
          This government showed no interest in small businesses and no will to incite people to come out of living on benefits.
          Its “socialist” agenda is more in the line of Leninism – centralisation of power that they exercise more and more in lockdowns and mandatory vaccination without regards that both strategies has not proved to be effective to such a degree that they want us to believe round the world.

          • Sod off you filthy troll–“benefits without limits”–er, benefits have not been at even subsistence level in this country since 1991! You either do not know that which means you are uninformed–so what else are you uniformed about, or do know it and are attempting to mislead.

            “low taxes provide space for small businesses and sound middle class”–and cut the amount available for social spend on health, education, and so on. This country is a tale of two cities precisely because those that can afford to pay have not been taxed enough for almost 40 years.

            “more in the line of Leninism” really? the neo liberal Caucus of NZ Labour is some way of revolutionary socialism you fuckwit!

            • Dear Tiger Mountain,
              If you take the trouble to read what I wrote you could see that I did not write that the unlimited benefits have ben given here.
              By Leninism line I mean the concentration of power by centralisation as we can see in education, health system, three waters. The same happened in post war Czechoslovakia and ended in dictatorship.

          • Except thet NZ has gone downhill in terms of the greater good since this reaction to a socialist tempering of capitalism, that is neoliberalism began. So… you come from a painful place. I understand. Please don’t misunderstand us.

          • Alexandra. You’ve fallen into the very trap that I highlighted in my post. You equate the word socialism with control of people’s lives by the state. I went into some detail to preempt this very interpretation but you’ve gone there anyway. Understandable because that’s your experience. However, using that lens on NZ is sheer folly I’m afraid. You are sounding more and more like neoliberalist. It’s disappointing yet not surprising, in a way.

            • Pragman, my opinion is clear: means of production owned by state need strong government of one political party. It does not and have not worked. Lenin had to introduce NEP, China had to allow private capital. Eutopean states do not have state owned means of production. Western capitalism and democracy has been the only system working relatively well. Why are migrants streaming to capitalist countried and not to China, Cuba, North Korea?

        • No I’m saying the MOH has been left with too much to do. It can’t even run its hospitals properly let alone administrate the vaccine rollout. Parts of that could have been done privately. Jacinda is a control freak and the result is that she is now scrambling to to get everyone vaccinated. If a private supplier fucks up it has to answer to the Government. If the government fucks up it answers to itself until the next election.

        • New View. I was referring to what seems to be an implication that we should simply scrap government run systems like health, roading and education b

        • New View. I was referring to the implication that we should simply scap government run systems like health. That would mean we would only have privately owned hospitals and in my opinion is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

          • PM. We get the worst of both worlds instead of the best. We get National that can see a state asset run poorly like the railways and instead of fixing it flogs it off in a run down condition. We have labour who would like to run businesses like water (which needs attention badly) but in my opinion are incapable. I think we need a good mix. This Government and labour don’t get the fact that if you are going to have state owned enterprises you need to know how to run them. National makes the mistake of selling them off and letting the private owners try and do the job on the cheap. My idea is to keep the core business and control and privatise the bits you can but still retain control.

            • New Idea. More common ground. Thanks for that. I believe our politicians prefer to dwell on side issues rather than grapple with the real ones. It’s lazy and irresponsible. How do we fix this?

              • PM If I new I’d be a real clever f. K. Our politicians act like children and treat us like children also. I know it most likely won’t happen but at present I believe a coalition with all parties couldn’t be worse than what we’ve got. I prefer National but they’re not ready to Govern alone.

  19. Personally I am for more carrot less stick.

    I would really enjoy the next lockdown if I didn’t have to pay rent, and I would enjoy it even more, if at the end of it we again eliminated the virus and again became the envy of the world.

    When it comes to mandates for vaccination. Again I am more for the softly softly approach than whacking people with a stick.

    How different it was when we were children. My childhood recollection of being immunised, was of a no-nonsense operation; The school ordered all the children of Orakei Primary, where I attended, out of the classroom and into the playground and formed us into queues to line up for our shots, no ifs, buts, or maybes. For a few short minutes we stood around admiring each others’ welts on on our upper arm, before being ordered straight back to class.

    Nobody asked our permission. I doubt our parents were even asked.

    Different times. The War was not long over. We got a free milk in a glass bottle delivered to our school gate and drank it through a paper straw. 

    We did military drills in the playground in the morning before the start of school.

    Teachers were allowed to physically beat us with a cane or ruler if we infringed even by the slightest school rules. I can never forget once when one young Maori boy in my class being whipped so viciously with the cane that the teacher broke the skin and drew blood in several places. The cuts were so deep and bloody that I am sure he still has the scars today.

    Different times.

    These days teachers and politicians have to lead more by example and persuasion, and less by force.

    Prime MInister Ardern went before the cameras to get her jab. If the pfizer vaccine is approved for over 5s. An even more dramatic demonstration of the seriousness of the pandemic could be a video of the Prime Minister’s daughter getting the jab,with her loving parents beside her.

    In the age old contest between authoritarianism and democracy, now being played out against the background of the pandemic. It is my opinion that, over the long run, leading by example and democracy and logical argument and persuasion, less stick and more carrot, will prove to be less divisive and more effective than ruling by decree and authoritarianism and use of force.

    If there is any stick to be used, that it be used against those at the top of society not those at the bottom.

    Let’s kill this virus off.

    Full lockdown, with full mortgage and rent moratorium. Let the Billionaire Banksters carry some of the costs of lockdown.

    I am all for wielding a stick against this lot.

    What you will find Chris is that the government will be keener to use the stick on common people than on the banksters.

    Because where mortgage and rent moratoriums were done in the past. Beginning in 1984 New Zealand has had 47 years of neo-liberal orthodoxy drilled into us that the markets can not be interferred with. It is almost a supersicious dread that a lightening bolt will strike down any government from the heavens if they took any form of legislation to restrict the fiinancial markets or banks in any way.

  20. The intimidating photo at the head of this post of black clad booted thugs with long batons should be a warning to us.

    We all know where the blows will fall hardest, just like we knew at school. The Maori kids, the migrants with the funny accents, the poorest kids in the tattiest clothes.

    In the 80’s during the protests against racism when the mostly Maori and Pacifica gangs joined and reinforced the pickets against racist rugby, we all witnessed where the baton blows were falling hardest.

    We are seeing a bit of that now. Where the gangs and rough sleepers are being demonised and scape goated for the uncontained spread of the virus.

    Lockdowns are a bit like vaccination, if enough people do it, it confers herd immunity on the few that don’t.

    The first victim of war is truth.

    What all those trying to pin the failure to contain the virus on gangs can’t or don’t want to aknowledge is that despite the activities of the gangs and the minority of rule breakers, before it was lifted the Level 4 Lockdown was crushing the spread of the virus.

    There are lots of quotes by the health officials and even the Prime Minister acknowledging that the Level 4 Lockdown was eliminating the virus, even right up to the point where it was lifted early, unfortunately though it was working to crush the virus Delta needed more time than earlier versions. Time it wasn’t given. The government lost their nerve under the unrelenting pressure from the financiers and rentier class and their political representatives in parliament and the media.

    It is these people who should be feeling the stick for the failure to hold the line against the virus. Not those on the bottom of society.

  21. The generation now in power is politically allergic to adopting the hard-line policies because they know how the population will react.

    The government is a fascist dictatorship if it suggests masks be worn in public. The audience thinking like that is the one which has a report the Government has in its hands, He Puapua, as the recipe for apartheid.

    Hard-line policies? How would they be received by the cretins who’ll support the upcoming Destiny Church promoted rallies?

    The Government is afraid of the total power of the sticks wielded by others. If it wasn’t, there would have been some form of Capital Gains Tax by now.

  22. What a joke! Labour hated the Public Safety Conservation Act so much they kept it on the books all the way through their first, second and third terms in government! How about the meat workers and the miners during WW2 Chris? The carpenters in 1949? The Strike and Lockout Emergency Regulations introduced in 1939 weren’t repealed till 1949.



    • No disputing the facts, Malcolm. In its last term, the First Labour Government became increasingly authoritarian.

      The Government’s reaction to Carpenters Union strike in Auckland was the most egregious example of the Party’s rightward shift in relation to the trade union movement. But the most significant change was Peter Fraser’s introduction of peace-time conscription – also known as Compulsory Military Training. It was passed in a shamefully manipulated referendum (opponents denied access to public and private mass media).

      Promoted by a leader who had been jailed for opposing conscription in World War I, CMT caused deep and lasting divisions in the Labour Party – and thousands of defections from it.

  23. People keep making a weird argument that mandatory vaxes would be a betrayal to labours core ideals. Bullshit.

    Labour was founded to represent workers and the collective over the excesses of the individual. Which they sold out but still

    Left wing Collectivist ideology would be to make employers mandate all their employees and customers be vaccinated. Unions would be no jab no job. Your individual right to be an idiot doesn’t overrule the rights of your coworkers not to be put at risk by an individual. You have the right to be Unvaxxed but not to risk the health and livelihoods of your coworkers and colleagues.

    They should allow employers to mandate all staff be vaccinated and be able to fire you if you’re not. It’s more helpful than the 90 day rule.

    I’d go further. No vax no state help. No vax ? No dole. No vax no subsidized medicine from pharmac and you can go to Brian Tamaki or a crystal shop if you need healthcare since you don’t believe in science.

    My friends in hospo, factories, education, health , building, public transport all have to be vaccinated. Why should they have to be vaccinated for a job but I don’t have to be vaccinated to claim a benefit….

    You don’t wanna do your part for our country? Fine our country doesn’t have to fulfill our part of the social contract either and you don’t get to partake in our countries tax funded services, you don’t believe in the social safety net either cos your an individualist whose about themselves so you don’t get to benefit from the work of the collective

    Other countries do it and I’ll tell ya what cutting govt payments and entitlements would get far more vax hesitant people vaxed than a national day of action.

    As for the rich anti vaxers, no vax no job. No vax no festival, no vax no bar, no vax no church no vax no travel no vax no golf club, no vax no regional travel

    And regardless of whether they do the no vax no job no vax no pay the second companies can they will be requiring all customers who enter their business be vaccinated or they won’t be allowed in, companies wanna do it now. They don’t wanna risk bad publicity from being a location of interest or risk being closed or their staff getting sick so the unvaccinated will be doing their groceries at dairys and servos or by delivery cos they won’t be going anywhere even if they have money.

    There’s no left wing justification for not getting vaccinated, it’s individualist right wing libertarianism.

    Any unionists that are advocating a pro choice policy and defending anti vax employees are doing a disserve to that workers coworkers who deserve to be safe and are a disgrace to the union movement.

    And I genuinely believe if you think your individual rights trump the rights of the collective then you don’t deserve to join in any of the spoils of the collective.

    • Well said Cory Humm. Only the organised working class can administer public safety and conservation.

      • Can you give us some examples from the history of the world that it really works?
        The working class and generally all classes of society have been thriving best under Western Capitalistic Democracies.
        Collectivism suffocates freedom and believe me, without freedom you do not live, you just hibernate at the best.
        One of my relatives refused to give up his field to the local collective cooperative farm, he had to hide but once he dared to go to a pub, was arrested and nobody saw him again.
        My friend’s grandfather owned a small village shop and when he refused to give it up to the collective he was sent to uranium mines, returned after 7 years just to die.
        This is a true picture of collectivism. Once introduced as a leading principle with power, it swallows everything.

          • Yes, it is not fair and I don’t like it as much as you. But you must accept that people are not perfect and that is why no political system can be perfect. When you look at the history of the world it was the same all the time with rich monarchs, emperors, noble men… When socialism was introduced in Czechoslovakia, all capital came into the hands of “proletariat” as we were told but actually there grew new rich elite of top party members who were millionairs.
            What I say is that the Western Capitalist Democracies represent the best possible system under which all people can thrive and enjoy freedom while socialism with state owned all means of production inevitably brings about dictatorship.

    • If you’re so worried about the individual harming society as a collective then I guess we need to ban alcohol, all recreational drugs, smoking, junk food etc etc because these substances cause untold millions of dollars of damage to NZ every year and on top of that ruin peoples lives.

      drunk drivers kill more people in NZ than covid, same can be said for people inhaling 2nd hand smoke.

      If you want to be a puritanical about the vaccine while still hitting the booze and killing people with 2nd hand smoke…well…

    • This is authoritarian puritianism. What do you think are the secondary consequences of the policy you advocate. How will the newly jobless and those denied public services respond, how will the authorities respond to that?

      If the gate keepers of your orthodoxy get these exclusionary policies enacted, will they declare victory and go home or will they find new anti-collectivist elements to root out in a righteous purity spiral. The drinkers, the smokers, the obese, those who don’t do 10,000 steps a day.

      It’s a hard pitch to the sweet spot of vaccine hesitancy (anti-vaxx won’t be convinced), some cures are definitely worse than the disease.
      Looking at the US, UK and Victoria I think the government here is doing a decent job spinning many plates beyond just vaccine uptake percentages.

    • In case I need to clarify by
      “some cures are definitely worse than the disease.”
      I mean metaphorically, so policy choices such as that advocated by Corey not actual vaccination.

      • Corey and Tui both raise solid points and seem indicative of the dichotomy that is carrot vs stick. Go hard gently but hold the line? The virus is the enemy. We must help eachother through this pandemic. There will be pain, there’s no getting around that unfortunately. But there will be light at the end of the long tunnel. Hang in there and do what you can to assist others, gently. We’re fucken KIWI’s, you betcha we’ll get through this! The paradigm is shifting.

    • Corey Humm as a Medicines healthcare campaigner I BACK every damn word you say.
      There is to MUCH of this INDIVIDUALS RIGHTS overrule the COMMUNITIES greater rights talk .
      It may be your decision to not take the vax but IT IS NOT YOUR RIGHT to threaten anyone else’s health when you make that decision. UNLESS YOU HAVE MEDICAL REASONS FOR REFUSING.
      Considering all this anti vax anti authority crap originates from 12 USA individuals who have been pushing it for decades. Not only that of the 20 so called Christian websites in the USA 19 OF THEM ARE CREATED FROM EASTERN EUROPEAN TROLL FARM specifically to destabilise the USA.
      SO Not only have those 12 individuals and the 19 troll farms destabilised the USA, they have destabilised the whole damn planet in my opinion. So Billy Tk, Brian Tamaki , Sue Grey and the outdoors party gang and their look alikes are riding the same bullshit anti vax anti authority crap from the same sources.
      Boy have those troll farms succeeded far beyond Putin’s wildest dreams.

      • Your argument is based on the premise that the vaccine works perfectly which we all know it does not. A vaccinated person can also catch and transmit the virus, the only difference is that he/she has better chance not to get hospitalised and die of covid. Instead of concentrating only on two ways how to cope with the virus: lockdowns or vaccination, we should use everything we possibly can: build a special MIQ, build special hospital units for Covid patients, invite doctors and nurses from abroad and pay them well (and our doctors and nurses, too) buy all accessible medicines for treatment including Ivermectin, propagate prevention like vitamin C, D, zinc, enough sleep, being outside etc. These things work for overall health not only against Covid. By the way, why we do not see on TV1 and 3 the debates of researchers and clinical doctors from around the world who work with patients and with the virus and with medicines and vaccines so that we can learn firsthand about their experiences? There are very good on You tube that can persuade some hesitant people.
        To blame the people for Governement’s failures and to divide them into vaccinated and unvaccinated is just a shame. And we also need true information about what is happening around the world, how deadly the Delta variant actually is, how dangerous the vaccines are and for whom specifically. What are the options for treatment, is there anything people can do immediately after being tested positive or feeling the symptoms to avoid hospitals? There are answers, why we do not know them and do not talk about them instead of hunting people to get vaccinated.

      • In March 2020 we had 358 ICU beds, in August 2021 we had 284, which makes 4,6 for every 100,000 people. Australia has 8,9, Germany 38,4. We need about 100 nurses for ICU beds that we have. In September there were about 37,000 surgeries, procedures, assessments in hospitals cancelled because of Covid. And This Government had not done anything to improve the system for 18 months. So who is to be blamed? The people who don’t want to be vaccinated or the Government?

    • And… Would an extension of not being able to ‘join in any of the spoils of the collective.’ mean being able to keep all money earned, ie not having to pay any tax at all, gst, petrol tax, rates, acc, car rego, maybe even getting a discount of the tax amount in everything that costs more because of the cost of petrol…
      Some might take that deal.
      Not me, too anarchistic. But plenty would consider it I think.

  24. “How, for example, is the goal of vaccinating 95 percent of the adult population against Covid-19 to be reached if employers are not given the unassailable legal authority to say “No Jab. No Job”? How is the long-awaited Vaccination Certificate to be made effective if legal pedants are free to test the meaning of “mandatory” in the courts?”
    How the hell is it the responsibility of employers to mandate vaccination. If the government considers it necesary that all workers are jabbed why is it necessary to make employers the middlemen. the only possible rationalisation is to transfer liability for the inevitable side efects of the vaccine onto employers instead of the state that would be the ultimate enforcer anyway.
    The comparison trying to equate the danger of covid with the imminent threat of war with Germany is ridiculous.
    D J S

  25. Why Cindy dumped the Delta Covid elimination strategy. She’s becoming unpopular with the business community too!

    “Lack of detail, targets and dates … poor transparency and stuck in a “kindness echo chamber” – those are some of the comments business leaders made when giving their verdict on the Government in the Herald’s Mood of the Boardroom survey …”

    Sound familiar?


  26. 8/10 Latest on Covid I have seen.
    Community case numbers jumped to 44 today, while the government announced Northland would move to alert level 3 after a person who travelled throughout the region tested positive.

    Two new Covid cases are reported today from outside Waikato’s Alert Level 3 boundary – in areas currently under level 2 rules.
    The two infected people are in Kāwhia and Karāpiro – located respectively south of Raglan, and near Cambridge. No change to alert levels has yet been signalled, as Waikato public health officials have confirmed that all nine of the region’s cases to date are linked. One death from Covid-19 was also reported, along with news that a person had visited Waikato Hospital while likely infectious.

    Good advice.
    Dr Nitasha Rimar, endocrinologist and physician, Northland, comments:
    “Unfortunately this respiratory virus is highly infectious and will continue to spread aggressively. We can, however, limit that spread by proactively tightening boundaries (especially to regions such as Northland, which has amongst the lowest vaccination rate, and limited ICU beds), and universally masking our entire population in all indoor settings as we continue to boost our vaccination numbers. Proactively, rather than reactively, altering our approach will restrict the virus from flourishing in our vulnerable communities.

    “Though the Pfizer vaccine is very good at preventing hospitalisation and death, individuals only gain immunity approximately two weeks after the second dose, and it has only 30 per cent efficacy after the first dose. That leaves more than half the country unprotected as only 42 per cent of the total population is fully vaccinated at this time. Furthermore, vaccinated individuals can still become infected and transmit the virus, and the majority of those who transmit the virus do not elicit symptoms. This underscores the need for universal masking.

    “Public education is going to be absolutely vital to combatting misinformation and preventing unnecessary loss of life. Perhaps consideration for integrating nationally-known figures, such as sports celebrities or community leaders at daily press conferences, could bolster scientific fact-based knowledge sharing.

  27. Folks it’s official. Jacinda and govt no longer in charge. The gangs are. Forget about stick. There is no stick. Hopkins has it sorted… I’m very disappointed, he says. That’ll work, so all good.

  28. The idea of getting vaccinated is a source of great consternation for me.

    I was booked in to get vaccinated on Monday, but subsequently cancelled. I’ve literally had panic attacks for 3 days straight and it’s been awful.

    This opinion piece by Chris Trotter is not helpful to me, quite the opposite. From my perspective I find this article to be rather frightening.

    I want to make good decisions, decisions I feel confident about. Please be respectful.

    I’m finding these two videos positive and helpful [atm]:

    • Hi Zack, I empathise with your struggle. My respected family member is a staunch anti vaxxer who truly believes we are in the biblical end of days. I struggled to decide on vaccination for myself. In the end I was more afraid of the virus than the jab and got it last week. My family member believes I have committed suicide in doing so that will be actioned a year or two from now. I just feel relieved and am counting the days to my second jab. With all the opposing propaganda and fear I also was super anxious waiting at Vax clinic and told nurse I’ve changed my mind. She said, are you sure? And I said no, let’s just get it done. My family member hasn’t spoken to me since. This virus and the fear is devisive. In the end I just had to rely on my own decision making skills and I took the risk. You can too. Take someone supportive with you next time you’re booked for the jab. Let the staff know you are anxious, they’re used to that and are completely lovely and professional. You will be relieved. I’m not scared of the Vax anymore. I hope others will follow suite asap. Let’s get to Xmas at least, we can worry about next year soon enough. Fyi I have heart lung smoker issues so catching delta is a real concern for me. We take our chances one way or the other and what will be will be

  29. For a hundred years we the left have been opposing harsh USA sanctions and war, and now that Jacinda is in power, she must follow those examples – that’s not a law of nature, that is a decision to be subordinate to powerful captains of industry and we don’t even have a choice.

    One of the harsh it decisions

    • One of the harsh decisions that has to be made is to always maximize the pain generated by covid19 and to constantly tighten control which is designed to make people suffer but that is the nature of power in and of itself.

  30. Aucklands about to go the same way as Victoria in Australia. A city full of Zombies who won’t stay the fuck home!
    Again, poor leadership from Ardern and she didn’t front the bad news day today. How not so surprising.

    We need an election now or for her to step down. She got spooked by lycra wearing old crusties into a $785m bridge and then, found out it was just a drunken old journo who ran a Twitter campaign!
    If you can be spooked into that kinda shit, who knows what the business community said to her to relax the level three lockdown to ClusterFuck Lockdown level 3!

    It let the nutters out to head out far and wide on a teke tour for a couple of days and then allowed them to hold out on turning the whereabouts on the other is holding up! I would’ve tasered the fuck out the holdout!

    This is not the time to be kind when its a life and death situation. If she cant handle the jandal then, she needs to give it up!

  31. You utter fucking scumbag. I expect you will come to regret this piece. It is likely to see you on trial and get the due penalty.

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