Groan – why the latest Feminist Billboard censorship fiasco hurts Labour’s Hate Speech aspirations

1. “Today Barry apologised if Speak Up For Women felt offended by his comment.”

   Urgh. He deserves to lose the mayoralty for that non-apology alone.

2. Agreed.

   • Delia – A beautiful name, again. Your grandmother must have been a lovely lady… in non-optimum times.

     • She was darling and I carry her whole name and I am very honoured..thank you for your lovely comment

3. Agree

4. Agree

5. BTW the SUFW talk is on this Thursday 15 th 6.30pm at the Michael Fowler Centre .

   They are feminists who care about womens’ rights, not anti trans as they have commonly been depicted.
   They believe biological sex trumps gender ideology, thus the sign

   • So what you are saying is they ARE anti Trans rights. Those two last sentences do not go together

     • “so what you’re saying” 😉

       Are you Cathy Newman in disguise?

       • Racheal Stewert has her armour on. She’s lawered up.

         Activism is a term that is used to loosley these days.

         These Trans “activists” aren’t even moving the needle for the trans community.

         The Daily Blog actually did change everything. More will come. Much more.

     • Well I will answer it this way. I think trans activists believe the gender identity trumps biological sex. Is that not the case?

     • They definitely are anti trans, they just pretend they aren’t by having a very tightly defined definition on what an acceptable trans person is.

       “We are very accepting of trans people, as long as they stay in their own place & don’t try to enter our space, preferably we’d just like them to go away”.

       These days it’s a lot harder to be openly racist or sexist, and even homophobia isn’t as popular as it used to be, but bashing (literally or figuratively) trans women still seems to be relatively acceptable sadly.

       • Well if you were a woman you mightn’t want ex-blokes in your lavatory space either, or having them share your daughter’s changing room, and how come, time after time, men appear before the courts for illicitly filming women in toilets and changing rooms, but women NEVER film men that way ? We’re not that interested, that’s why. It’s men who seem to be the pervs and the hidden camera desperados. Dirty buggers.

         • So are you ok with men illicitly filming boys & other men in toilets & changing rooms? Men are such disgusting pervs, perhaps we need to ban them from all toilets & changing rooms!

           • Because I abhor males illicitly filming females, it does not follow that I am therefore ok with them filming their own gender persons – still dirty buggers. Pathetic.

             • …and fortunately those activities are currently illegal & will remain so. The fact that you are reading about cases in the news means that people are being caught & successfully prosecuted. Can you point to any cases where trans people have been caught illicitly filming people in woman’s only spaces or is this argument just a straw”man” argument?

               It should be noted though that never in the history of the world, has the level of technologically advanced covert surveillance tools been available to the common person. Almost everyone carries a HD video camera and what you can buy cheaply on Trade Me would have the James Bond of 30 years ago looking enviously at you. So if someone really wants to film you, you will be filmed.

               It should also be noted that the level & variety of pornography freely available to anyone, of any age, with an internet connection, should mean whatever your “interests” are, they are probably catered to & with better production values than the average person can achieve.

           • actually that would be a good thing to do. Just think of the safety for boys, girls and women.

           • Nah – they can join the National Party and send pictures of their’s – or others’- penises to each other.

             • Funniest comment of the day award!

       • Richard Slade: do you have any proof they are anti trans?

         Maybe they a simply advocates for woman

         • … and Tarrant simply advocated for white people in a slightly more forceful manner?

           • What are you saying here Richard about Tarrant advocating for white people in a more forceful manner? That sounds like you are comparing him to SUFW?
             That is completely unacceptable and deeply offensive

             • Your conclusion, not mine 😉

               • Why the hell did you raise Tarrant in this context then?

                 I didn’t make a conclusion that why I asked you

                 • Maybe that’s where the politics of hate lead?

                   • No Richard.

                     Women have a demonstrated history of oppression by men, and now trans men too, who want to colonise their language and bodies (e.g. chest-feeding). White people, in general, are not discriminated against in any meaningful sense in the same way as women have. Therefore your false equivalence is ridiculous tendentious rubbish designed to make you feel better about your poor ability to exercise basic logic.

       • Richard I do wonder why a man has to jump into a conversation and tell women, how and who women are.

         • Did you just assume gender? Quick call the Woke Police!

           I’m not telling anyone who they are, I’ just speaking up for one of the more marginalised & abused groups in our society & it isn’t a bunch of well financed Karens.

         • Terry “ I do wonder why a man has to jump into a conversation and tell women, how and who women are. “

           Good point. It is a little skin- crawly.

           • What’s creepy is who is financing SUFW. A tiny group with a big bank balance. These faux grassroots groups are pretty scary as you never know who is financing them or what their agenda actually is.

             It is also pretty sad how few people are willing to speak up for trans women on this left wing & theoretically progressive site. Most here seem to be happy to pile on and put the boot in with little understanding of what the law changes will actually mean to people. Most can’t get past the image of someone who looks like Bomber in a dress waving his penis about whilst secretly filming Rachel Stewart getting changed.

             • Richard, Agree with you re who funded the billboard, and why.

               If the law change you’re referring to concerns loosening the rules around gender ID- ing on official documents, I agree that that it could be potentially dangerous, even if it is just sloppy law making.

               Everything may be divide and rule, and you become part of the diversion by making silly smutty jokes.

               • That smutty “joke” is how the argument is generally presented to the general public, and it is relatively effective. Most people have no idea about many law changes & don’t really care if it doesn’t affect them, but they will quickly form & voice an opinion regardless of how little they know.

                 Of course most of this is a distraction, the alternative is to just stand by & get shafted. To take real, decisive actions carries real world costs that I’m certainly not willing to pay, especially as very little affects me.

             • SUFW are funded by individual donations. 1 or 2 individuals may be fairly well of. But, that funding is nothing to do with the neoliberal, US male, billionaire funding of genderism international.

               Billionaire Jon Stryker (heir to a medical technologies company) uses his Arcus Foundation to chanel funds to transgenderist organisations internationally. he has particularly focused on the global south.

               ARCUS funded organisations working to slip self ID etc into national laws in Ireland and Europe. – early on, under the radar through TENI.

               Stonewall UK shifted from a focus on LGB to trans after Arcus gave them a 6 figure donation.

               Arcus Funding helped set up the International Trans Fund – it has been top or near top of the list of sponsors for Gender Minorities Aotearoa for the last few years.
               Scroll down to the bottom: https://genderminorities.com/

               https://www.arcusfoundation.org/global-trans-initiative/

               I have also found other donations to NZ organisations/Unis in NZ from Arcus with a focus on trans/human rights.

             • OK, OK, Let me answer that Richard, they are funded by an extreme right, fundamentalist, lesbian, heterosexual, christian cabal in Ohio! Sisters for Sanity…. You got em.

     • SUFW is standing up for women’s rights, language and their access to women’s safe spaces and sports teams and scholarships and refuges and prisons and assigned jobs without men, or people identifying as women, from encroaching on these safe spaces. They are not anti trans but are pro women.

       • Absolutely.

       • So if someone is pro white, what would that make them?

         • False equivalence alert! Women are discriminated against, therefore being pro-women means redressing what is out of balance. It doesn’t logically then follow that being pro-white is equivalent, which is what you are trying to set up here – the ask in your question is implicitly suggesting that pro-white is equivalent to pro-women. No, it’s not.

     • Fold Art: i also support women who stand up for the rights of biological women. Rights they have fought hard to achieve over generations. The ‘real women’ arguement is simplistic. Trans women identify as women but will only ever be trans women. Biolgy is biology and no amount of hroup think can change that.

       • Actually science is changeable, religious dogma is not. The Christian religion gives us the binary Adam & Eve, where woman is made of & is subservient to man (not Adam & Lilith, where man & woman were created equal but Lilith wouldn’t put up with Adams’ crap and left him). Science evolves over time as more research is done and more is understood about the universe we live in. Science is about observing & questioning everything, not hard, unchanging “facts”.

         Male & female are defined in mammals by XY & XX chromosomes respectively because that is what scientists chose as a simple defining sex characteristic. Other chromosomal combinations such as XXY, XXX, XO are also possible with different characteristics being expressed as a result. It should also be noted that you cannot tell someone’s genetic make up just by looking at them, hence someone like Rachel Stewart looks distinctly more mannish that some trans women do. However no one should be judged on their looks or things they have no control over, so I in no way wish to denigrate Rachel Stewart, who appears to be an accomplished individual (though one with a possibly questionable sense of humour).

         It is worth considering exactly what a human is too. You and probably everyone you know, is simply a bag of chemicals that moves around for some reason not currently explicable by biological science (hence we have made up religions and you are covered by biology, not chemistry). Every thought you have and every feeling you feel is due to interactions between various chemical compounds inside your body. Since the environment we now live in, the water we drink & the food we eat is potentially contaminated with a wide range of chemical compounds, often only introduced to the environment within the past 70 years. These chemicals include pharmaceutical contaminants, hormones, synthetic environmental estrogens, & EOCs.

         Epigenetic & environmental stressors will cause some species of animals to change sex, with complete transformation of mature ovaries to functional testes and vice versa. Exactly what effect the ingestion of these chemical cocktails has on human physiology is poorly understood, due to the difficulty of controls & ethical constraints posed by experimenting on people. Is this a component in the increasing number of gender diverse people visible today or are people, who have always been with us, just feeling safer about revealing themselves?

         Don’t use science to justify your hate & fears.

         • “Epigenetic & environmental stressors will cause some species of animals to change sex, with complete transformation of mature ovaries to functional testes and vice versa.”

           But does that happen in humans Richard? In a similar vein, I remember Frank Macksasy going on about Jack-in-the-Pulpit (a plant that changes sex), as if that somehow established how “natural” trans was.

           Gender dysphoria is very much a mental thing – girls don’t suddenly starting growing male bits, and boys don’t start developing vaginas because of chemicals they’ve unwittingly ingested. So-called “gender-affirming” surgery (how Orwellian is that language) is needed – a drastic intervention that can never accurately reproduce the anatomy of the opposite sex, but that is essentially irreversible. And unsurprisingly, people do change their minds – teenage gender dysphoria can be a passing phase.

           If you’re going to get preachy about use of science, don’t turn around and misuse it to promulgate your own ideology.

         • Richard said: “Male & female are defined in mammals by XY & XX chromosomes respectively because that is what scientists chose as a simple defining sex characteristic. Other chromosomal combinations such as XXY, XXX, XO are also possible with different characteristics being expressed as a result”

           That’s not what the science shows. Male and female are defined by whether they have the reproductive system whose function is to produce small gametes (sperm in humans) or large gametes (ova in humans – regardless of fertility). This is true across a range of species, including all mammals.

           The 46th chromosome is most usually XX for female and XY for male. But, the determining feature is the SRY gene, which is most usually found on the short arm of the Y chromosome. If the SRY gene is activated by naturally occurring testosterone (in utero) the foetus will start to develop a male reproductive system.

           If there is no active SRY gene, the foetus will begin to develop a female reproductive system.

           So, some individuals with XY chromosomes can develop into females. On extremely rare occasions an SRY gene will be on an X chromosome. So it’s possible for a male to have XX chromosomes.

           And basically, some people have XXY chromosomes, or XO chromosomes or other variations. The same thing (SRY gene) begins the development of a male or female reproductive system. But some of those chromosome patterns will result in variations of how the male or female reproductive system develops. Some parts of the system may not develop typically, and may not fully develop eg female without a uterus.

           But, the vast majority will essentially be male or female. It’s extremely rare for individuals not to have an identifiable male or female reproductive system. (less than 0.02% of the population.)

           But, all those conditions can be identified medically. So it certainly has nothing to to with individuals self IDing their gender according to how they feel about themselves.

         • Wrong wrong wrong.
           To be able to breed you need the right chromosomes. Yes different combinations can happen, sometimes, and are almost always non-viable. Look across the biology of mammals for christ sake.
           The woke-tard conformist mantra is now ‘oh I feel female’ so you must therefore be a woman. No.
           Trans say they want to be non-binary, then turn around and try to force everyone else into a binary definition that includes self identifying as male or female sex. Where is the non-binary in that? The end result of this lunacy is to try and force women into their definition of ‘inclusion’ which is to deny women their lived reality as women and punish anyone who disagrees with their binary definitions.
           These people are hypocrites. If you are a trans women, it doesn’t follow that all women now have to identify how trans women want. You can be a third thing without forcing women into something that is totally foreign to their lived experience and they don’t agree with.

           • this lunacy is to try and force women

             Yep – “Force” being the operative word.
             Meet the new boss (-ettes)
             Same as the old boss.

             Force women…. Force women… Make ’em do whatever you think they “must” do, or rather, whatever crap you want them to do.

     • No. Gender and sex are distinct things. THEY ARE DIFFERENT THINGS!

       This has been recognised by psychologists for decades. You can have identity as trans and not be of the female sex. Sex is determined by chromosomes at the time of conception.

       Acknowledging biology is not a hate crime.

       • Gender and sex are distinct things.

         Fo’ shore.
         One is a real world activity.
         The other, a social construct.

         Both are being played up to keep the proles distracted while the planet burns.

         • shoulda had a 🙂 after ‘activity’

           (just clarifying…)

     • How can they be anti trans rights, trans have the same rights as everyone else. What they are against is criminal men self identifying as women to gain access to female spaces. It hardly earth shattering. Unless you think ten year girls should go to the loo in the company of adult males. I agree with them, I do not want to go into ablution blocks with males. My choice, just like you have choices. Women are not on this earth to validate anyone’s identity. It should be enough we carry children, give birth and that in itself should entitle us to wholly female spaces. I know the proponents of this like to believe we live in a fantasy world where women somehow miraculously turn out babies like the Virgin Mary and do not require special provisions, but the world has not changed that much. Women, that is, females still give birth.

6. Fucks sake, the state of things in 2021

   So Now the biological description of “women” is problematic to some people

   and what’s with the Mayor talking such trash about a womens group?

   Watch this video for a few clues as to how we could have got here:

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1EA2ohrt5Q

7. So I’m now the subject of someones complaint to HR. My team had a brief discussion about adding pronouns to our email signature. I added that it wasn’t for me. One of the children (new graduate, in her first adult job ) took me up on it, then asked me if I believed that trans woman were real women. I said that I wouldn’t answer that question & it was not appropriate in my work place. She said that she took it that I didn’t believe that trans women were women. I was told that she would complain to HR and has accused me of hate speech. HR have advised me that they have received a complaint of serious misconduct…

   • HR have advised me that they have received a complaint of serious misconduct…

     The lunatics really are taking control of the asylum

   • Sorry to hear that Terry – “serious misconduct” is a ridiculous way to describe such an incident. But I expect mandatory gender pronouns are just around the corner at my workplace too.

   • Best of luck Terry, don’t grovel, don’t apologise. Point them (and the wet wokelet) to a dictionary as above. You can’t be a women if you’re a man (even if you’ve had your manly bits chopped off) not matter how tight you close your eyes and try really, really hard to believe it.
     What gets me is the ones trying to make out you’re the one with the psychological condition. Gaslighting?

   • Terry, it’s a trick question.
     Engineered to be real? Or born real? I’d say to that female wokester ‘Yes, transwomen are engineered to be real’. She will have no answer for that because it’s no lie and HR will be happy. Unless HR is run by an ‘Engineered to real’.

   • Awfully sorry to hear that Terry.

     Perhaps you should seek legal advice? Might pay to get a copy of your company policy as well. Based on your comment I don’t see how that could be interpreted as ‘hate speech’ nor ‘serious misconduct’. Legally if that’s all you said I highly doubt such a complaint would be upheld in court, however how far an HR department might take it is unknown as they may perceive their own arses on the line…

     Good luck!

   • Contact the free speech union. Would never have described them as my cup of tea but they are bloody useful with this sort of thing. Good luck. Ask them (HR) if they think it’s ok for male bodied people to shower and change in front of teenage girls. Bet they don’t answer.

   • Shocking Terry.

     This is my problem with trans ideology. They expect you to fall into line and not only concur with their beliefs, but also to use their language. In my long life no one has ever insisted that I accept their ideology or belief system and use their terms. And if you don’t comply the consequences are severe as in your case Terry, or you are called a bigot, excluded from events like Pride and for some women harassed on line.

     No one ever insisted I said Kia Ora, otherwise I was racist. And what a surprise many of us started using it.

     Terry I suggest if you are in Wellington you go to the SUFW talk at the Michael Fowler centre 6 30pm, Thursday 15th. They are a group of feminists who are concerned about these issues

   • Terry seriously if you are able to, get a lawyer. That person’s actions are harassment and intimidation

     • Thanks, I’ve had a discussion with a senior manager who is about to go ballistic. A good friend is an employment lawyer, thinks it’s dead in the water. My Union is looking at it as well. I think HR want to make sure they can dismiss this without comeback.

       But it is intimidating, if I say or do anything, it is then retaliation, which is then serious misconduct.

     • Thanks, I’ve had a discussion with a senior manager who is about to go ballistic. A good friend is an employment lawyer, thinks it’s dead in the water. My Union is looking at it as well. I think HR want to make sure they can dismiss this without comeback.

       But it is intimidating, if I say or do anything, it is then retaliation, which is then serious misconduct.

     • Anker, yes, Terry must get a lawyer, and certainly not depend on a union. There are employment lawyers who take on these issues, and they charge only if successful, and then just a percentage. They’re easily found.

       About 12 years ago I was in a similar situation in a government workplace. I did in fact say the words attributed to me, which were a simple statement of fact in an ill-managed department. I got a lawyer, the issue went to ERA mediation. I won, and received an apology and small payout, resigned without another job to go to, very stressed. It was my second pg in that particular workplace, and I knew that I was being targeted and I quit.

       A contemporary problem, which could in fact impact upon Terry ,is that it seems impossible to state that one has no opinion about a specific issue, and to have this accepted, so that declining to agree with something is then promptly interpreted as opposing it.

       This has the effect of boxing one into a corner and enabling the protagonist to construct a false narrative and to bully, and it is happening not just in the workplace, but with eg one national utilities company, and it appears to be a strategy, and not incompetence.

       An outside lawyer is a godsend, and they’ve seen it all before.

       Kia kaha Terry, and good luck.

   • Terry, sounds like you were insulted (called fat I think), make sure others in the meeting can back you up on that, because that kind of behaviour is definitely not appropriate in the workplace and if the person making the complaint was responsible, they should be called on that.

     As to the use of pronouns as part of an email signature, that should be entirely optional & up to the individual, especially as some people may not be comfortable using them. They may not be “out” in the workplace or don’t want to be narrowly defined or have to justify their choice, so forcing this is possibly encroaching on their “safe” space. It is most inappropriate to try and force this in the workplace.

   • Terry Try not to place too much weight upon HR saying, “ serious misconduct” that’s just somebody being a jerk – there’s a good chance that management wouldn’t regard it the same way. With both my workplace issues in one department, senior management came out firmly on my side; in the first case the manager said that he couldn’t believe what had happened, and he was visibly pissed off about the whole thing. Human Resources can be a pretty mixed bunch themselves. Your problem is screwed- up girls, many of whom, even apparently cisgender ones, haven’t come to terms with their own sexuality; I declined to meet alone with one, and I tape-recorded another. You should be able to take a support person into any meetings, even if they just sit there mute, they can have a moderating influence. Good luck.

   • Maybe you could try changing the topic, ask if she believes in Santa or the Tooth fairy for instance. Any answer from her could give you a reason to claim to be offended & ask HR to investigate her. While my suggestion is flawed it followed the same logic she is using & might work.

   • mate, I feel for you. I suggest you pay your $10 and join Utu, then complain to Matt McCarten as this is clearly harassment of the first order.

   • Tell HR that you felt threatened and triggered by her extreme hatred and intolerance, and that you felt unsafe (today’s buzzwords). HR will be required to stop at that point.

   • Tell them your preferred pronoun is Maaate and that if anyone calls you a cis(y) male you will prosecute them for hate speech.

     Keep us updated on your case. Good luck.

     • Like he says ^_^

   • Tell them your preferred pronoun is Maaate and that if anyone calls you a cis(y) male you will prosecute them for hate speech 😉

     Good luck with your case. Please keep us posted.

   • Terry, disgusting state of affairs, and sadly the red guards are out in force in NZ.

     BTW – I love the use of pronouns after the woke names, it serves to identify their beliefs so you can avoid them similar to a certain swastika that was proudly worn 80 years ago and the red arm band for the red guards. So don’t be harassed into taking it up because the hate and abuse shown by those with pronouns after their names will eventually come out on the wrong side of history.

     “Mao launched the Cultural Revolution in August of 1966 at a Plenum of the Central Committee when he called for Red Guards to challenge Communist Party officials for their bourgeoisness and lack of revolutionary zeal. Articles in Party newspapers preceding this official launching introduced the concept of the Cultural Revolution.”

     We also had the hysteria in the 1980’s where people began to believe on mass that there were satanic child abuse cults in early childhood centres.

     Starts off like this, with allegations and bullying to others to make them believe and join, but then gathers momentum and soon people will be in prison, removed from office and publicly attacked (for not having pronouns or thinking woman are biologically woman or any such combination of the ‘new’ hate speech which seems to be normal critique or in Terry’s case, just refusing to take the millennial Kool aid). Harry Potter author. https://www.breitbart.com/entertainment/2020/06/10/j-k-rowling-rebukes-trans-activists-attempting-to-police-speech/

     Neokindness NZ! Where woman’s groups are told by the major to hold there events in the council waste bin. Don’t forget nobody is allowed on universities anymore if they have any non woke belief as it might be a “health and safety” violation to have non woke on campus now.

   • sorry to hear about what has happened Terry but I believe you have nothing to worry about as I can’t see any evidence of the claims made about you.

     all the same this is a disturbing glimpse into our hate speech law future driven these thin skinned totalitarian social justice warrior types. What next? gulags for those who don’t conform?

   • Probably triggered by your name, office TURF wars have started over less.

     My advice, tell them only your friends call you Terry, they can call you Terrence. And use the pronoun – They, Terry and Terrence.

   • So I’ve had a meeting with my manager, CEO & the company solicitor. I was given a letter of apology for the way I had been treated etc. I think the other person will be spoken to about making an false complaint. So all good in the end. But this sense of entitlement from certain “protected groups” seems to me to be something of a form on group narcissistic disorder.

     • @ Terry. Great news and thanks for the update. Sense prevails in this case, but mostly due to your own skills and getting the right advice, having a solicitor and be part of a union which all probably made this get the outcome it should have.

       The sad cases will be when a worker complains and harasses more vulnerable people without support networks and skills and they lose their jobs, forced to participate in ideas that they don’t believe in. etc.

       Or when the so called ‘hate speech’ comes in and then there is no work being done because everyone is complaining and trying to prosecute their colleagues about their beliefs being hate speech.

     • Terry. Thank goodness, and well done; it’s massively stressful, and having CE0 involvement should temper further similar scenarios for you or for other victims.

       You’ve also shone a light on the sinister side of speech-policing, so thanks for that too.

     • Good result, pretty crap that it came to that.

     • I hope more people like you, on the receiving end, also stand up and say, “NO! Enough is enough!”

8. the state of things in 2021

   Yeah, we’ve “evolved” to a real-life state of the Theatre of the Absurd

   So Now the biological description of “women” is problematic to some people

9. Terry please tell me your joking.

   • Sorry I wish I was…

     • Do you work for a company called “Monty Python’s Flying Circus”?

       If you not believing trans women are women is serious misconduct, is not believing there is a God also serious misconduct?
       Or believing there is God passes muster for serious misconduct.

       Does refusing to answer questions about personal beliefs being seen as serious misconduct in your workplace indicate any limits to what colleagues may ask each other?

       Please keep us informed of how things work out.

10. Martyn are you sure it’s vast enough? Hahaha brilliantly done. Thumb still sore from scrolling.

    • 1710 approx 🙂

11. SUFW should of course be free to broadcast their beliefs – it’s a free country (I think?). I am however surprised that their primary concern seems to be keeping the cliched “bearded guy in a dress” out of women’s toilets.

    Does SUFW have anything to say about the reflexive “gender affirmation” approach to gender dysphoria that has taken hold in medical and educational institutions. My concern is not so much policing the use of toilets, and more the damage being done to impressionable children by the peddling of gender ideology online and in schools. After their bodies have been hacked by hormones and surgery, some of them later change their minds …

    A generation ago, it was almost unheard of for a girl to want to be a boy – trans was almost exclusively male to female. Why has there been such a proliferation of gender dysphoria among teenage girls during the last 25 years or so, if it is not a “craze”?

    • Pope P – You’re right to be worried about gender ideology being peddled online, and some of it is being done by mothering groups eg teaching two and three year old girls to talk about their vaginas and their vulvas, and, possibly getting prematurely sexualised. One mother I talked with sees it as future insurance; I don’t know where these online groups originate.

      “Gender dysphoria a craze” ? I know that in schools, girls suddenly decide that they’re lesbians when their mates do, so that there can be a cluster, which may or may not later dissipate; dysphoria is different, but again, trendy mothers support primary school children being taught gender ID issues, saying that it helps them if they become confused; the fact that it may actually confuse kids, mightn’t be factored in.

      • Gender dysphoria is different alright. If a girl has a lesbian phase in her teens there’s no harm done – apart from a bit of teasing maybe. Life-changing surgery and hormones are another matter – I’m amazed at the current irresponsibility of educators and some medical practitioners.

        • The Eds are ‘just following orders’; the Meds have a new cash cow

    • SUFW have plenty to say about the issues you mention – the mainstream media just don’t pick up on them as much as toilets,and other single-sex intimate spaces, etc.

      https://speakupforwomen.nz/the-rights-of-children-in-education/

      https://speakupforwomen.nz/sufw_essays/puberty-blockers-are-dangerous-experimentation-on-children/

      And a lot more stuff on their website.

      The mainstream media, and Rainbow organistions (that no longer represent many of us, especially those of us who are lesbian) seem to be hell bent on keeping people misinformed about what SUFW and other gender critical people are arguing for.

      • Thanks Karolyn, that’s good to see SUFW is pulling no punches about the medicalization of gender dysphoria.

12. Serious Misconduct is as per definition in your employment agreement, it can’t just be made up by others. There’s no way they can get you out of your job for this, if they tell you otherwise, say you’re seeking legal advice, say nothing further until you do. It’s just bs, your colleague needs to familiarise themselves with law not make stuff up. Remember hr are the company’s friend not yours.

13. We had better pull the O.E.D. from NZ library shelves. Pronto.

14. Richard books are being pulled or rather Liberians are refusing to stock them. A number of women about 13 or so requested the Wellington library stock a book on the health consequences of transitioning medically to the opposite sex. The librarians refused to stock it.

    • We may have to start our own libraries. By “we” I mean anyone who has an interest in just about any particular topic. Some books seem to be vanishing, not just in AO/NZ. (So if you have any that you especially value, anyone, …Keep them secure!)

    • Anker – Librarians can be weird, but there could be budgetary constraints or even space restraints around the purchase and stocking of books. However Wellington Public Library could be requested to get a particular book on inter-loan from another library, and if they declined to do that, then they’d need to say why. I’d go straight to the Minister – if there is one – saves time – or to the downtrodden mayor.

15. Dear Martyn.
    I notice you have a problem I call catomania. It is when a cat, in my case a furry ginger monster, decides to take over the keyboard leading to VAST repetitions of particular words. I personally welcome the current wave of feminism, which can best be described as dealing with unfinished business. Progress may be slow, Comrade, and it may at times be annoying, but it is inevitable. Yes, the whole of human history must be overcome, and how we think about ourselves as the dominant beast on this planet must change, so that we have a future ahead of us and can save the world. Vastly.

    • “The whole of human history must be overcome “ ? I guess this is why the National Library is burning books then.

      I don’t mind too much about reverting to living in a cave without a hot water bottle, and about men being men and girls being girls, or showing power by banging bones on stones, but living without that musical magic of ‘ The Blue Danube’ wafting throughout my spaceship ? Never.

    • That will work wonders for the girls and women. (well at least the ones that with violence or not can be fucked into pregnancies and from one child to the next, as it used to be).

      Seriously is that what people learn for many years in Universities?

    • just for you, Dr Liz: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9765401/Get-meow-t-billboard-Giant-3D-cat-comes-life-brilliant-Tokyo-display.html

16. Gosh where is this dreadful Ardern Government taking us?
    Can anyone in New Zealand really believe we are on the correct path?
    I feel we are 5million guinea pigs in Arderns laboratory.

    • yes we are, as is she herself, (don’t ask me to ungender that one, 2 hard)

17. Richard yes think we should cancel the dictionary.
    Whilst doing that delete the benefits free trade has brought to the poorest countries in the world.

    • What a pathetic piece of stupidity. It is not the dictionary you need to cancel, so much as the grammar books that clearly define the use of pronouns. I saw someone had written ‘themself’ for such a non-gendered person the other day, and inwardly gagged. ‘Themselves’ is English. ‘Themself’ is a foolish barbarism by some naive people who think they can readily change the behaviour of the vast majority of English speakers in the world. Fat chance – all this will soon be forgotten.
      But far worse is your pathetic attempt to equate opposition to free trade with this linguistic idiocy. Very false equivalence. Very dumb.

18. Interesting. Are people and/or lobby groups actually upset about this.. ..or not really?

    I don’t think this will gain much traction. Can an advertising site/billboard legally refuse service like that? I guess they can. The whole thing is a bit odd.

    The idea of the billboard was clearly to create a stir.

19. Any reason my posts are not publishing? Am I cancelled?

    • Could be any reason from unreadable to ideological differences. That Martyn would respond with an argument to every indiscretion fir one guy is just not happening. He does respond though but not to all thousand of them a day.

20. Hi Terry, tell them your preferred pronoun is Maaate and that if anyone calls you a cis(y) male you will prosecute them for hate speech.

    Good luck with your case. Please keep us posted.

21. Terry – just make sure you don’t approach employment lawyer (and former winner of “Wellingtonian of the Year”) Steph Dyhrberg.

    She’s full-on “TWAW” and encouraged people to “punch terfs in the face”.

    Employment Law Firm of The Year winner, if you can believe. And (sadly) on the left.

22. In vino thankyou for your advice.

23. Um taking down that sign was an act of misogyny but perhaps it was just a precursor to the erection of a proper bilingual effort. I am as affronted by this as any ‘christian’ type person or ‘muslim’ or ‘buddhist’ (even though buddhists practice non-confrontation) because I regard my dictionary as numero uno publication in my house. While I am here can anyone explain why it is impossible to get hold of a reprint of an H.M.Ngata dictionary?

    • why it is impossible to get hold of a reprint

      Books are disappearing, mate. They’ve been cancelled, I think… Unless they’re the new dogma then they’re heresy maybe. If you can still get one 2nd hand, grab it and hide… (Not kidding.)

24. Yeah,
    well my pronoun is Bitch and this/that.
    Please adhere to it.

    Seriously, this planet is fucked, and i blame the educated idiots that got all the education studentloans and their parents could buy, but have not learned a single fucking thing.

25. Terry – I am in the same age bracket and now in a new job (finished my university studies) as the young woman who got upset and complained to HR about your comment and I want you to know that I and many, many of my (girl) friends are not like that. I, and a few of the ones I spoken to about this, are very embarrassed and angry. As my wonderful father said – “what a crock of shit, no wonder this country is in a mess”.

    I am not a lawyer but I have spoken to a lawyer friend and she can’t believe what this person has done. The question is – what is the serious misconduct when you simply expressed your opinion and declined, as is your right, to answer this person’s question”.

    So, by not answering the dumb question from this individual, who by the way is an embarrassment to all young women and women generally, you are now accused of hate speech which by its very word requires you to say something. My Dad reckons she won’t last long in her job. I agree with him.

    Good luck Terry – not all of us are like that stupid B..ch

    • My Dad reckons she won’t last long in her job….. it would not surprise me if she finds some ministry in Wellington and promoted to harrass people there, (oh I mean diversity division of some ministry)… seriously could happen!

      Practicality seems absent these days… taking a billboard down because it has a definition of a woman wouldn’t that be the opposite of good PR and make the feminists angry?…. then the mayor telling woman to meet in a dustbin? seriously bad state of affairs… and there is about 25% of people I see now putting pronouns after their names (possibly mostly from Wellington… _)

26. Once upon a time, safe women’s spaces meant places where no one could be openly lesbian because other females might be sexually insecure. So the special one was the only openly lesbian female at Yale University Graduate School.

    Then came the TERF’S, women insecure about those not born biologically female in women’s spaces (which began with hetero sexual right wingers who support marriage between a man and a woman). And some lesbian women (who had been active in feminist causes, including women’s refuges) supported the cause. But the special one (who claimed the best idea man had was God) was now openly transgender.

    But others also openly lesbian did not come out as transgender, they remained lesbian cisgender, and yet were more openly in support for the breadth of the rainbow cause than the chosen one.

    So they tried to de-platform the chosen one for being anti transgender (those identifying as women but were born male) – to be fair the chosen one annoyed as many feminists as she could could before she became transgender and did the same to them.

    To quote a cisgender male who was also to annoy people of the cultural group he was born into “it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a transgender lesbian to please everybody” (something about having too rich or fine a taste in flesh).

    Then came the queer friendly feminist cisgender female solo parent who created a character who rebelled against her creator, with these magical words “Trans rights are human rights”.

    So many are betrayed by what they create. But it always begins with a woman giving birth.

27. A man cant be a female, woman. Is that so hard to understand?
    As for the rest of the alphabet people. I’d like to hear them speak for themselves and not the ‘t’s hijacking their space too.

    • It’s happening increasingly internationally – LGB Alliances in several countries.

      Plus, in the last year, the very good Lesbian and Gay News – actually one or two supportive transsexuals also have had articles published there.

      https://lesbianandgaynews.com/

28. Comrade’s, Bro’s and menstruating people, I see the billboard has come down after the bold and fearless alphabet crew kkkeyboard warriors kicked up a stink and pressured the billboard company to remove.

    Apparently people from the trans community didn’t feel safe with this billboard being on display in the community. Were they worried it was going to fall off and hit someone? I mean come one, they can’t have been scared by the actual text?! ummm….

    Nicely played by SUFW though: they have successfully exposed the absolute lunacy of the trans community, the community that always loves to play the victim card with one hand while punching people they disagree with in face with the other

    Most unlikeable

29. Just read “Dictionaries under attack the word woman equals hate speech.”
    I’m feeling better now.
    Free trade is also apparently hate speech.
    Feeling really good now.

    • 🙂

    • John – if you’re feeling better, then may I suggest that you do not research the 72 gender pronouns or you could have a relapse. Laugh and be merry.

30. Thanks Pip I’m taking your advice.

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