The noise of the 3rd leaders debate has finally died out and it was the raucous shout fest we’ve all come to know and love from the Fairfax cow shed events.
Yes, yes, yes – Jacinda won. We all saw that, but the reality is we all lost.
There’s no fucking plan to mass build housing, there’s no fucking plan to deal with actual poverty and inequality, there’s no actual plan to reform neoliberalism in the state service, there’s no actual plans to radically alter and rebuild the economy so that it can deal with the Pandemic economic fallout and prepare NZ for the climate crisis.
There is zero focus on foreign affairs, there is no real plan to lower our Prison population or boost public services and we are missing in action on suicide, depression and mental health.
Labour inherited a neoliberal monster and have put a bow on it and called it Trish.
That’s sweet, but not transformative.
These debates are increasingly the veneer of participatory democracy without any of the actual challenge. Kiwis are grateful Labour saved us from Covid meaning this election has all the mandate of your average pity-fuck. No one is looking beyond the political gratitude of the moment to look at the enormous mess we are in with clear directions of how to get out of that mess.
The poorest and most vulnerable amongst us have had their interests eclipsed by the fears of the middle classes who don’t normally feel this insecure.
Labour have earned a second term, but they still have no real vision.
The Greens are the only hope for some of the radicalism required for real transformation, unfortunately the Greens are worse than useless.
Labour is winning the election, that is certain. The question is will they get there on their own or with the Greens.
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Reality sucks?
A very good summary.
Labour will never deviate from their centralist pragmatism because that is how elections are won and lost in NZ. Once you have got a hold of the middle and they become ‘sticky’ there is no real desire to rock the boat. Same thing happened with Clark, same thing happened with Key and yes the same thing will happen with Luxon when the turd polishers are finished with him.
Right or left, most people with half a brain realise there are major structural problems with our economy and society. Rightly or wrongly we have developed a low wage, commodity based economy with a smattering of high income micro industries. Until we address this, like South East Asian countries in the 1970s or Northern European countries in the 1950s/1960s we will continue to see inequality and welfare dependency increasing which in effect leads to the majority of the social problems we see in our society. The issue is that this requires major change for the majority of NZers for up to 2 decades – neither main political party at present views the rewards greater than the risk.
All of which shows that if we think a four year term is a good idea BEFORE we have a few fundamentals [to use the neo-libs buzz] in place, is a very bad idea.
If people wonder how the US of A (supposedly with all its “founding fathers” built in ‘protections’) can descend into such a complete fuckup, they should consider how effective the “checks and balances” are in this little old nation that punches above its weight.
Watch what happens for example if Judith gets elected and goes full-on Trump rather than merely trying to channel Him. We already know what Sir John thought of the OIA, and we know most politicians regard the BORA and Treaty as a nice-to-have aspirational target to be me some time in the future.
To put it in neo-lib speak, the choice this election is whether or not we have a “hard Landing” – possibly a crash landing, or a “soft landing” (in this space, going forward). Pivot now before the rush rhubarb rhubarb
I didn’t watch the debate but checked out what had unfolded this morning.
Most of us recall journalist Henry Cooke having the audacity to question the despicable Collins about her bullshit claim that no person escaped from a NZ Prison when she was the Minister of Corrections.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/422190/judith-collins-claims-prison-escapes-false-statement-a-joke
“She dismissed any suggestion she had been misleading the public with her comment.
“I think you might want to understand a joke when you hear it”, she said, when asked why she had said something that was clearly untrue.
“I think you want to get your Monty Python right.”
When will the public know when she’s joking, reporters asked. “When my eyebrows go up.”
One reporter (Henry Cooke) was told by Collins to “bone up on your comedy skills” when he asked to explain why her joke about prisoners escaping was funny”
Henry Cooke has made no negative comments about Collins since that interview on 28th July some 10 weeks ago. That’s a VERY long time to be viewing Collins on the campaign trail and not find anything to confront Collins over. I ask a sincere question. Did Collins intimidate Cooke?
If so, I feel confident Cooke is in for another “chat” from Collins after his review of last nights third leaders debate seen below.
“After two debates where Judith Collins managed to steer the discussion, Jacinda Ardern commanded the stage at The Press Leaders Debate.
She interrupted Collins whenever she felt like it. She didn’t pause or hesitate when Collins interrupted her – steam-rolling all the way through. And she played the room like a fiddle”
If Labour and (hopefully) Greens are the Govt. in two weeks, it is up to “us” as in those that give a shit, to get to work among the people and in all groups and organisations we may belong to.
Community organisation and direct action will be needed in spades to effect the changes Martyn alludes to. Thousands of state houses, rent control, rollling back the neo liberal state, will take disruptive and constructive campaigns. The NZCTU will need to be restored to a working class fighting organisation.
“Entrism” as in lefties infiltrating Labour and Green parties may need to be revisited, and staunch climate activism renewed. We will have three years to raise hell, and the good news is that the boomer replacement generations will come into their own in 2023.
Don’t moan-ORGANISE Comrades, brothers and sisters-unite all who can be united for justice in Aotearoa.
it is up to “us” as in those that give a shit, to get to work among the people
YES!
However, don’t expect Labour to do things that are contrary to their campaign commitments. They count for more than any activist campaigns. And so they should. The campaign commitments are the basis of a democratic governments mandate.
Activist campaigns operate on the margins of the mandate. They don’t override the mandate.
But do your best to be provocative. As long as we believe that democracy will bring about justice then we will not win. I am a true kiwi and now we must fight for New Zealand.
Wimpishness is not the requirement–boldness is, don’t forget Rogernomics was bought in by stealth not popular mandate. How do you think “we are going to gut rural communities, the MoW, close Post Offices and sell off public assets would have gone down with most Labour voters in 1984?
Paid Parental Leave, Pay Equity for carers, Zero hours protection, worker status for previous contractors etc. were won by working class led campaigns–I am suggesting more of those to be applied. Which includes involving and organising communities and influencing selection of candidates if necessary.
Perhaps our Unions could be beefed up to take the fight to Govt. If the workers can unite in large numbers they already have a type of management that could facilitate strike action and so forth. They need a serious overhaul since being almost neutered by the employment contracts act. A rising up using the unions?
Business NZ ( euphemised as The NZ Initiative ) will do all within its widespread power to prevent Unions from becoming stronger. B NZ run the MSM with strategically placed personnel.
What else can we do Martyn, other than celebrate the right to participate in democracy? But yes, the façade coexists with participatory democracy, clearly visible every election cycle. And now greatly exacerbated by the new media spectacle. In the past it was mostly promises and lies. Anything to win your vote and gain power. In these strange times lies are no longer appropriate and promises have a distinctly hollow sound. In the face of REAL challenges, it appears parliamentarians know WHAT they need to do but, for the most part, are paralyzed on HOW to achieve it. Put it down to complexity perhaps. Search the academic literature and there’re pages on complexity theory and the difficulties of finding solutions to multi-faceted problems. But in difficult times – and in so many ways – we citizens are looking for actions like ‘transformational’ / ‘visionary’. Are we asking for too much?
“Democracy” is controlled by MSM which is consistently channeled to neoliberal memes and unbalanced reporting of propaganda.
“Jacinda won the debate, we all saw that” um trying telling that to the 30000 that voted in the NZ Herald poll and who picked Judith as the clear winner, just like the previous two televised debates. You’re correct though, these debates mean nothing. Neoliberalism is going nowhere and in many areas is being further entrenched. There is no one to vote for this election in my opinion, Labour dont deserve a second term but National dont deserve a first either. We are doomed.
You mean the New Zealand Herald right wing paper, I’m surprised Ardern polled so high?
If you call NZ Herald right wing, then Greens are offering tax cuts.
Their paywall of many political and contentious topics makes them ‘right wing’ in my book.
Aye!
Agreed bert with plenty of evidence visible to those who seek a balance by looking overseas and at informative open blogsites.
History gets rewritten by those with a pen and a wide public circulation, but facts on the ground don’t change. They can get buried though.
Agree. Party vote Green, or we all founder in the waves of change already washing over us.
Yes, a massive state housing building program: the one transformative change needed, and the one I dont see being delivered 🙁
Yes Anthony a massive house building program is very badly needed. Does it have to be the State? I have some experience with building State houses back in the 70’s and they were and still are over engineered, over complicated and expensive and difficult to build, relative to a economy build. In fact I own an old State house now, which very easily could have been made cheaper. That’s what we need. Cheaper houses that are easy and fast to build. Simply and clean design, not fancy and expensive slow to builds. The KiwiBuilds in New Plymouth are just round the corner. I was surprised to see how big they were. Sea views, complicated and expensive, all in our poorest part of town. Who’s the idiot that did this?
When State houses were initiated bt John A Lee during the term of the first Labour govt, the Ministry of Works laid down modest standards for what was seen as a sound family home using mainly NZ based materials including the tiled roof.
Unlike some later housing, no short cuts were made and the best building practice at the time was applied.
Sealants were not used for water tightness yet they were not leaky homes. Some are over 80 years old with original cladding and roof.
Over built would hardly be a term used at the time.
If you are in a state house then it probably is a sound building but modern living styles may encourage internal alteration.
That’s because the poor have no money, they’ve got nothing to rob. The thing is we have hundreds of thousands of people that aren’t paying rent, that’s stupid.
You came up with a reason why something can’t be done. That just means you don’t want to do nothing. I ain’t fucking stupid.
Hey Sam we are seeing virtually nothing for the poorer Kiwi family.
Modular housing with common facilities like laundry, covered recreational social space and even shared cooking facilities will have a welcome place in many communities.
Insular “nuclear” families are not the only way to live. There are many strengths in well run communal communities. Certainly a stepping stone bypassing veracious predatory landlords.
If the state house building program means kicking families who have been good tennnts for many years out on the street to build low quality high density boxes, then bugger the left.
I’m actually hearing lots of stories of people being kicked out of their state houses and into private rentals or motels and these are small sections we’re talking about, why are we replacing well built state houses with ugly boxes and why are they knocking down houses instead of freeing up crown land instead of making people homeless low lives
It was NACT that evicted state tenants to sell the sites off to private for profit developer mates.
Much crown land near housing is held for reserves and should not be taken for other purposes. We do not have enough reserve land and even when covered in gorse it will revert to native forest if the bird life distributes seed. Gorse is a great nursery for native trees providing fire is prevented for 20-30 years.
There are many solution for providing homes but we have no show while the door is open on immigration or overseas ownership of land. One of jonkey’s toxic legacies.
Housing needs to be an infrastucture asset not a trader commodity.
the Greens are worse than useless.
But if they’re not there at all, then we cannot even begin to hold them to account. And they do have several really good policies, as well as some that will at least form a base for discussion and then for the needed change. Without that, we ain’t got nothin’.
Hopefully at least a couple from The Māori Party will also be there, and the combo will power change.
Hopefully the Maori Party will encourage single story communal housing tailored for various communities.
Welling used to have camps for single men which comprised of simple huts for one or two to sleep in, communal laundry and recreational community space and some communal kitchen facilities apart from a simple cooking station in each hut. Retired men looked after the premises as a part of their tenancy. The initiative was owned by the local council and successfully homed hundreds during the years the camp existed. They social contacts made provided supportive networks far beyond the camps.
Local Employers had a good variety of workers from the camp.
Party vote Green and we might start to see some pull back from Neo-liberalism, it has been deeply embedded over the last several decades, to the point there are people now, mature adults, don’t know any different.
If you look back through history, when the masses were pushed to the limit, revolutions happened to push to restart button.
We are, hopefully, going to try to turn this ship around in peace.
Pretty hard to storm a Cayman Islands account, so it is going to take more than just pitchforks and guillotines.
So when the political system doesn’t reflect the people, what do those people do?
(Clue: read some history books folks…)
Record sales of firearms in the USA at present.
There is a hope that NZ is not that divided and we can act towards demanding social goals as a majority group.
MSM is a significant enemy.
Sam Sachdeva, The Bell Tolls
What the hell is the matter with us.
The Mackenzie Basin is on fire. Lake Ohau exploded and is devastated. Many have lost everything. Not that far away massive flooding closed the roads. The North is preparing for drought. Auckland’s water is running out..
Given all that, Climate Change would dominate any and all ‘debates’, right? Right??
What IS WRONG with us? Why are we choosing to be so wilfully blind? So STUPID?
Aren’t many of those Ohau homes, holiday homes? most will have insurance so their homes can be rebuilt. It is sad with the lost of personal irreplaceable items and the disruption to peoples lives. And second time around the surrounding land issues will need to be sorted or at least minimised. However they may be hit with higher Insurance premiums just like we have in Wellington with earthquake risks. Living in paradise comes at a costs now.
That paradise is called Planet Earth.
Paradise lost.
Iinto the pockets of a few psychopaths.
Their supporters well groomed and dangerous get the crumbs.
We are enslavened into working within the system that supports them.
Mind control is real and presently based on false information heaped upon us daily. It has become normalised for many strugglers.
Nah I am voting party TOP. They are the only ones who are seriously reseaching and planning a new way forward for NZ.
But TOP is still neoliberal and not basically transformative but tinkers with detail. Look at who started TOP.
Basically a capitalist trader who has reaped enough dosh to sit back with opinions. Yes master thank you for offering crumbs.
I agree with you. Martyn. The choice is between bad, worse, diabolically bad or worse-than-useless when it comes to major contenders in this farcical election. And anyone who is not promoting more-of-the-same-with-slight-tweaking is pretty much invisible -made so by the corporate media.
Secure in the knowledge that none of the major parties intend to do anything at all to address any of the predicaments we face and that all of the parties are promoting impossible-to-achieve goals, I continue to pursue projects relating to my personal strategy of preparing for the impending meltdown associated with the ‘triple tsunami’ -financial, energetic and environmental- that has been ‘thundering up the beach’ for quite a while and is now starting to ‘drown’ people.
Many years ago Ugo Bardi, university professor of chemistry, wrote an article in which he suggested that if it were possible to go back i time and warn emperors of the failing Roman Empire that their policies were not going to save the empire, and that they needed to shut down the ‘bread and circuses’ -particularly the circuses- and bring the centurions back home instead of attempting to hold on to conquered lands, the emperors would have laughed and insisted that the empire be preserved at all costs and that the circuses had to continue.
What we are witnessing is also very like the Easter Island (Rapa Nui) culture, in which the worse thing got, the more the leaders insisted that building of more statues was the answer!
Well, we all know how that worked out!!!
(If you don’t, I suggest you do some research.)
I keep saying we all lost when real issues became the ring for take no prisoners, blood on the floor sports entertainment.
Christians and Lions is an approach which may have merely seeped out years ago but now it is full throated every-which-way.
The gormless ‘who won’ as if some finite answer could be found to a question and exercise so infinitely limited and stupid when it really should be about something so significant.
PARTY VOTE GREEN .
With potentially around 77 labour MP’s coming in , I would rather vote back the best 10 Green MP’s with proven Government experience than a truck load of new inexperienced Labour newbies.
They also provide a buffer to the Labours center-right as well as as keeping climate change firmly on the daily discussion.
With handbrake Winston gone, the greens make sense .
Agreed. If the best Green MP’s can be managed by Labours top hierarchy then this could strengthen the centre-left and we could end up with a half decent Govt. JA would have to show some steel at the table.
I guess we can just be thankful that global heating isn’t urgent or important.
SARC?
I agree with you. Martyn. The choice is between bad, worse, diabolically bad or worse-than-useless when it comes to major contenders in this farcical election. And anyone who is not promoting more-of-the-same-with-slight-tweaking is pretty much invisible -made so by the corporate media.
Secure in the knowledge that none of the major parties intend to do anything at all to address any of the predicaments we face and that all of the parties are promoting impossible-to-achieve goals, I continue to pursue projects relating to my personal strategy of preparing for the impending meltdown associated with the ‘triple tsunami’ -financial, energetic and environmental- that has been ‘thundering up the beach’ for quite a while and is now starting to ‘drown’ people.
Many years ago Ugo Bardi, university professor of chemistry, wrote an article in which he suggested that if it were possible to go back i time and warn emperors of the failing Roman Empire that their policies were not going to save the empire, and that they needed to shut down the ‘bread and circuses’ -particularly the circuses- and bring the centurions back home instead of attempting to hold on to conquered lands, the emperors would have laughed and insisted that the empire be preserved at all costs and that the circuses had to continue.
What we are witnessing is also very like the Easter Island (Rapa Nui) culture, in which the worse thing got, the more the leaders insisted that building of more statues was the answer!
Well, we all know how that worked out!!!
(If you don’t, I suggest you do some research.)
Another blog’s take on the debate…
https://thebfd.co.nz/2020/10/08/a-deplorable-debate/
What does Judith have to offer. She has had many times the mention on RNZ over the last few weeks than Adern. Who organises that.
NACT’s history is worse than Labour’s even when taking into account the damage done by the douglas Lange Govt.
Remember Banker key sold off half of our energy giants in spite of a referendum clearly showing nearly 70% of Kiwis said NO!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_New_Zealand_asset_sales_referendum
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