Is there even a pointing having the Greens anymore?

By
Martyn Bradbury
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65
1503

GRANT: “Winston calm down, you don’t even have to look him in the eyes”
WINSTON: “And Marama, I can ignore her too right”.
JACINDA: “Guys, kindness please, James is right there, he can hear us talking about him”.
JAMES: “….”

I don’t wish to be rude, but is there a point to even having the Greens?

Greens’ James Shaw says party wanted more for welfare in $50b Covid-19 Budget spend

Shaw says the Covid-19 crisis has revealed the inequalities in New Zealand’s economy, and the investments being made today start to address that.  In terms of welfare spending, the Budget doesn’t go as far as the Greens would like. There is more to be done.

…yeah, I think it takes more than thoughts and prayers James.

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So let’s count up what the Greens have managed to get here.

$1.1b in ‘environmental jobs’, there’s $400m to clean up rivers  plus $2.7b for rail (which isn’t directly their own policy) gets us to say $4billion.

That’s $4billion out of a budget of $50billion?

James says he’s sad that the Government couldn’t do more for welfare, but when all you’ve managed is a measly $4b out of a $50b budget, it’s safe to say you’ve almost given up altogether really.

It’s like aiming for Mt Everest, flying to Australia and taking a selfie at Ayers Rock.

Don’t give me ‘But Winston is mean to us” as an explanation for getting next to nothing here, you’ve had 3 years to find a strategy to deal with Winston, maybe you need to look at your tactical team, I mean Andrew bloody Campbell is in Jacinda’s office, he’s previously Green, if you can’t get access to policy gains, something has gone terribly bloody wrong in the backroom!

This was an opportunity to make a mark upon the rebuild of Aotearoa, the Greens have missed that moment. They have from now until the election to wrestle something meaningful out of Labour and claim it as their own.

65 COMMENTS

  1. Ha ! it seems the budget was designed in secrecy to avoid general time wasting haggling. You cant blame the Greens, Martyn,…when Labour owes its term in office to NZ First.

    Soooo,.. one could easily turn that question around and say : ” would you have preferred the ( 100% unlikelihood BTW…) of the coalition being made up of National and Labour?”

    I wonder how high the howls of lament would have reached to the sky’s in that scenario?

    Nothing would have been achieved.

    Absolutely Jack shite.

    So at least the Greens did not impede what we have got by being obtuse and obstinate. We can at least credit them that. Again , patience required, we do not yet know if the Greens will come to shine once the unorthodox economics of neo liberalism are shed, done and dusted.

    • The Greens have been running on inertia ever since since elements of there supporters, tacticians and MPs started threatening to cancel there own participation in the government. Well go ahead then you muppets. Winners always find a way.

      • Yes, – and bring back Peter Dunne while your’e at it.

        Because that’s your choices. The Maori party?… were they not another ‘Peter Dunne’ style outfit?

        • if I was to bring back people it would be Don Brash, Rodney Hyde, Murices Williamson, Michel Boag and so on and so on. My only objective is to have all the stability on my side, and all the chaos on there side. If the electorate had of listened to us in 2017 Epson, Auckland Central and most of Wellington, West Auckland would have been ours and the Greens would have had Thames.

    • coalition being made up of National and Labour?

      Isn’t that exactly what we now have, wrapped up in this budget? How would a National-Labour Coalition Budget differ? Any way at all?

      …Noting that mr bridges was perfectly happy to let it go straight through: Opposition Decides Against No-Confidence

      • I don’t think you want to go there because those differences involve melanin and gonads. There really is only a few ways of managing a capitalist economy, incompetently or competently.

        • Try noeliberal, Keynesian. Marxist , socialist or cooperative economies all work differently.
          Or try Henry George’s set up that Kirk looked at.
          Nothing is just black or white in spite of who that might suit.

          Lange with a private schooler Picot changed the education system over night but not for the better..

          • I mean it’s hardly a glorious day for capitalism or democracy a lot is due to pure dumb luck. Clearly when infections started showing up national leaders one by one started freaking out as it became abundantly clear that all the theoretical economists particularly the ones that you and I talk to on a daily at TDB has been bullshitting themselves and everyone else this whole time, John Keys the biggest bullshitter of them all. John Key literally had to convince his supporters to lose at least 20 IQ points each so that John Key could have a stupid and docile set of electorates so he could get one over them. And now the evidence is plain as day. 56 is greater> 30 folks.

      • Oh pfft, pfft pfft pfft on bulshit dollars.

        Why don’t we put it this. If The Coalition can get a super majority of 90 seats meaning The Greens and NZFirst in caucus and the Greens slips in some constitutional reforms in the coalition agreement then that would just open the door wide open to the greens but they’ve got to complain on getting a super majority and NZFirst and labour has to be shoulder to shoulder with the Greens.

        • Yes a solid majority may allow not so brave politicians to move in the right direction promptly and get a basis for a better care of NZ and its people.

  2. Good laugh

    GRANT: “Winston calm down, you don’t even have to look him in the eyes”
    WINSTON: “And Marama, I can ignore her too right”.
    JACINDA: “Guys, kindness please, James is right there, he can hear us talking about him”.
    JAMES: “….”

    • You may be able to mind read, but the Greens may have agreed with prioritising budget provisions so their usual aims are not a part of this temporary emergence situation and contingencies to deal with it.
      Begging for more just to have a green stamp showing, may be viewed as undesirable if it means a higher debt level potentially. which may be viewed as an unwanted consequence.
      The rail addition is positive and significant.

  4. Here we go again. Commentators ask what use are the Greens if they aren’t dominating the government’s policy agenda? They never explain how they think a party with 6% of the vote might dominate the agenda, nor explain how discouraging people from voting Green will help the Greens get more influence over policy and spending.

    So it’s a stupid question to start with, but if you’re determined to establish what effect the Greens have had on this budget, compare it with the Clark government’s 2002 – 2008 budgets. Those are what we could expect if the Greens weren’t involved.

  5. Concerning Welfare: Unemployment Benefits/WINZ specifically ..

    The reality is; the Ideology, Voting Behavior and Lack-of-Interest of Kiwi’s has produced the current unemployment system. Now many of those same Kiwi’s are subject to it.

    “You’ve made your bed, now lie in it”. Are people already not complaining? The wage subsidy scheme for many will just prove to be a temporary, topped-up benefit.

    • Are people already not complaining?

      Yep. Mark said he had been shocked to see the realities of New Zealand’s welfare system, and had struggled to access his superannuation which had made things even harder. Social justice group ActionStation has been contacted by hundreds of people in a similar situation to Mark.

      Campaigner Ruby Powell said Covid-related job losses meant thousands of people were quickly realising how harsh New Zealand’s welfare system is. She said they struggled to get support and when they did were shocked to see how little they received on the benefit – with a single person without children receiving $210 a week.

      ODT – Hidden Unemployed – Many Denied Benefit

    • Zack Brando – temporary, topped-up benefit to some of the worst exploitive gig employers! https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/300013869/nz-couriers-claim-drivers-covid19-wage-subsidy-theyre-rorting-everyone

      The government trusts the exploiters more than the people and that is their problem.

      That and too many lawyers and accountants and communications and networkers, filling up every single government group, who tell them to acquiesce to lobbyists to avoid being sued. (Maybe what happened with the Chinese water given away by the stupid Greens???? who knows!)

      Our government is obsessed with lawyers, accountants and communications to the point that someone told me the government has set up an Information Technology Digital group for NZ – but out of 7 people 2 are lawyers, 1 accountant, 1 in comms part of the CHCH reconstruction screw up, 1 refugee whose probably the only one with a bit of tech experience, 1 ex-scientist, strategist, business developer and 1 Māori-led design and animation expertmarketer.

      Ok then, so looks like zero tech qualifications or any big tech experience, in the entire group and all on the absolute peripheral of tech, but are great at self marketing then!

      The problem with that, is they come up with bogus stuff on paper that will never work and then on the backs of that go onto more government tech groups as experts in tech without being qualified….. and the same mistakes are constantly being repeated.

      Great to be diverse but what sort of advice can you get out of people who have no technical qualifications or deep technical experience advising the government of what, diversity instead of digital standards??? No wonder nothing in government tech works!

      Tech is now NZ’s third biggest export, you kinda feel they are keen to fuck that one up too by being seen to do something without too much thought into the risks of impractical or poor advice…

      This is on the back of their failed government CTO who with much time and expense was head hunted by a marketing recruitment agency, given the job, before withdrawing it, maybe when someone noticed he had never been a CTO or have any technical qualifications either… marketing technology or sales is a different role from a CTO, as is, being a lawyer or accountant, but the government neoliberals and woke officials seemingly think they are the same (or maybe they are expected to pick up deep technical experience overnight on google, who knows? We have fake news, now we have flaky advisory bodies, picked for diversity (and maybe low costs) than skills???)

      • “water given away by the stupid Greens”
        Was that a green policy or was it a green party member as minister signing off a caucus decision.

        • There were times when it was clearly Eugenie’s call and she chose to quietly pull the plug, always under the suggestion that they’re “Just following orders”. Who else claimed to be “Just following orders” back in history, and how much grief and devastation did they cause. NOT good enough. Shockingly bad. Some things are unforgivable.

          • I agree Kheala that the minister should never have signed off water piracy no matter who or what they were paid off stage.
            My doubt is that the cabinet was against it.
            If their minister signed then cabinet is responsible or they should have disciplined a rogue minister.
            Many Chinese companies have deep pockets.

  6. I want to support the Greens, but they just make it so hard!

    I’ll probably have to vote for them anyway, because if you believe in the environment, every party is even worse, aka Labour and NZ First as well as Natz and ACT are hell bent on destroying the environment while putting the county into massive debt to aid big and small polluters, and don’t believe in the environment either!

    What can you do? This is my view of the budget. I accidentally put in into Chris Trotter’s post, but really it applies to the Greens in terms of aiding pollution, just as the promotion of he gig economy and low wages does not really seem like ‘old’ Labour to me, as Chris advocates.

    NZ, the polluters and gig economy paradise to import in poverty to out compete NZ’s poorest!

    The budget is more roads, roads, roads, billions for roads and road users… it seems

    Roads that might not really work, be on time or budget, or even hire NZ workers, but who cares, roads, roads, roads ,https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/415959/transmission-gully-project-a-circus-sections-to-be-re-laid

    Helping Uber drivers and the gig economy for tax avoidance multinationals is a priority and of course roads, roads, roads, https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/budget/121514050/uber-driver-says-the-government-has-looked-after-the-worstoff

    To the government the retail, cafe workers and big businesses like Harvey Norman, seem to be the worst off in NZ and deserving of all the support?

    I guess those without much voice or lobbyists can’t really compete.

    Child who has lived in van has message for PM
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/305949/child-who-has-lived-in-van-has-message-for-pm
    (Hopefully this poor kid has a roof over her head now and can concentrate on her studies, but what about the 16,000+ waiting for a state house?

    Importing in poverty workers, does not help this girl or her family with more and more competing in NZ for low wage ghost job opportunities and social housing).

    Auckland teen was kidnapped and tortured, court hears
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/398171/auckland-teen-was-kidnapped-and-tortured-court-hears

    Another sad story of another teenager in care that in stead of being protected and rehabilitated ends up in prison for a decade over a fake rape allegation from another ‘troubled’ youth.
    https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/false-rape-claim-teen-serves-10-years

    82 Southland disabled workers face losing jobs over cost cuts
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2019/05/82-southland-disabled-workers-face-losing-jobs-over-cost-cuts.html

    Nothing for the arts from what I can see in the budget, keep polluting everyone and don’t actually support a well rounded society in NZ from the COL government!

    BTW for the neoliberals one of the richest teens in the world, is through the arts but I guess ‘trade work’ putting down concrete and kerbs for $20 p/h for roads, roads, roads, is the only NZ vision allowed for people here now. https://www.worldstrendingtopmost.com/2017-2018-2019-2020/richest/top-10-richest-teens-world-teen-celebrities-kids-stars-teenagers/,

    Give those big business lobbyists a bonus (sarcasm) they have totally incapsulated this government’s thinking in very niche directions of massive corporate support for roads and construction or low wage sunset industry, aka just like the Natz, and the money certainly aint being shared out to NZ citizens, higher wages, growth industries or enlightenment here.

    • Winston out hustled everyone to get a cannabis referendum, Andrew Little wrote the bill and Chloe said oh Kia ora, I’ll take that.

      • @Sam, funny thought, (don’t know if true or not, but you can imagine it) but shouldn’t it be “Kia ora, I’ll take that. Ok Boomers?”

        • Depends of Chloe can do a seemore and Shepard it across the line. If the referendum comes back no then sad one really.

  8. Before the election? No chance. The Greens are just about dead in the water, imo.

    But there are at least a couple of bright lights on the horizon if they’re given a chance. One is Ricardo Mendez from Auckland Action Against Poverty. He is standing for Maungakiekie, One Tree Hill, and he has a chance of winning that seat. …If Labour allowed him to do so, he would take it out.

    The other bright light is Luke Wijohn. He is a true Climate activist, which is exactly what we most need, now and into the future. He represents the Youth vote of Aotearoa.

    However the Greens have chosen to run him agains Jacinda. Why are they doing that? He will be effectively ‘disappeared’. He should be given a chance to show his drawing power, to show his true worth.

    • Just to add, re: Maungakiekie, One Tree Hill: If Labour insist on dividing the vote of the wider left for this seat, they will be repeating their mistake of the last election and likely again gift it to National. (I can link to the results of the last election to show this, if need be.)

    • +1 Greywarbler – good point!

      Although I think the way the money has been allocated that is the bone of contention, not the sum.

  10. The Greens are being credited with the “Pest Control” initiative, which has a vast budget allocation of funds of around 200 million dollars. Just to note, this originated under Mr Key’s National Govt: Beehive Release – PM John Key 26/7/2016 – NZ to be Predator Free by 2050

    I note this in part because I consider it to be a diversion of funds and of our awareness, away from the more urgent and more serious needs of Aotearoa, of the environment, and of Climate Change.

    • +1 Kheala

      It’s not the sum that the environment is getting in NZ that is the biggest issue, it is how it’s being spent on the same industries and people – not reducing pollution of the biggest polluters and improving the environment in a fair and practical way, but money to groups at the periphery of the environment, that are the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff.

      What is the point of spending money of pest control when everywhere else you are encouraging more rats and pollution and preserving the water when you are putting landfill in flood areas that could wipe out natives and pollute the Kaipara harbour, increase trucks and traffic and congestion and air pollution, when the onus should be on less waste going into landfill.

      Of course the company wants to encourage more tipping – they are profiting from it! And the Greens just gave permission for the Chinese waste management company to buy the land!

      Canny China, they export a lot of the junk that goes to landfill within a short period of time that is wiping out local business and jobs, then they buy up waste management companies and profit from the pollution they import into NZ while saying they are creating jobs in exchange for the free water… maybe stop and heavily tax imported goods that end up in landfill within short periods of time will be a start!

      Auckland’s proposed Dome Valley landfill could spark rahui
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/113228228/aucklands-proposed-dome-valley-landfill-could-spark-rahui?rm=m

  11. Repy to Ben Waimata.

    Ben, my comment was about the state of the NZ Green Party today, considering the question that is the title of this page. Where are the NZ Greens at, now in 2020? What are they about? Where are they going? What is their potential and actual relevance, particularly in light of the newly released budget.

    What does it say about the Greens that the centrepiece of their future, the recipient of vast amounts of funding, is a policy that originated from Mr Key and the National Party. (Yet the Greens seem to be claiming it as their own.) That’s the best that they have? Now in 2020, while we are experiencing the first crashing waves of Climate Change on our shores, an unprecedented drought across the North Island in particular. Which will likely be followed by devastating floods at some point. Where have they begun to address any of this?

    I’m not getting into a discussion on the various aspects of pest/ predator control as such. It is just a question of the NZ Greens’ priorities, now and into the future. Who are they, now in 2020? What do they stand for? Where are they going?

    • johnky’s predator announcement was a feel good PR stunt. Don’t fall for it
      The words mean very little.

  12. Martin- don’t be fool hardy about the railway investment – that’s all NZ First’s doing alone.

    Greens wanted some trams and highspeed train to Timaru.

    Winston and Shane control Kiwirail and probably are the best negotiators in Govt.

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