So Southern and Molyneux might be coming – what do we do now?

By
Martyn Bradbury
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84
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Protesters at Lauren Southern event clash with riot police outside Melbourne venue
Protesters have clashed with riot and mounted police outside a Melbourne venue hosting Canadian far-right speaker Lauren Southern.

More than 100 protesters blocked the Hume Highway outside Somerton’s La Mirage Reception and Convention Centre ahead of Ms Southern’s Friday night event.

At one point, the group rushed at a bus filled with attendees, slapping it and chanting “surround the Nazi bus” while being mooned by a man inside it.

Inside, Ms Southern’s speech was interrupted by protesters with banners and chanting “racism off our streets”, according to the Whistleblowers, Activists and Citizens Alliance group.

The young provocateur is known for her controversial views on multiculturalism, Islam and feminism and was banned from entering the UK in March.

Every act of violence feeds this – an endless yo-yo of contempt and spite manifesting every injury into martyrdom and self righteous justification to demean and denounce the other in a collapsing cycle forever human born.

There is a shiver of the shadow of the 1920s that hangs across all of this.

As we pause to consider how best to respond to these crypto-fascists appearing here in NZ – appreciate every violent protest merely builds them – we’ve been successfully trolled by this pair, will we give them more recruits or less?

Phil Goff was right to ban these crypto-fascsists from  a publicly funded venue, but his need to appeal to liberal Auckland at a time when his Leadership as Mayor was eroding him support from the Left threw a gas bomb on this and allowed these Hate Merchants to play the free speech martyrs.

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It has given them a marketing coup and I would not be surprised if Southern and Molyneux have had an enormous spike in youtube views from NZ.

There is an argument that we should not platform these crypto-fascists, I say we’ve lost that opportunity by being successfully trolled by these two. I believe the best way to combat this venom is to stand and debate our values because you don’t beat protoNazi’s from trigger free safe spaces with built in emotional support peacock petting zones.

Debating crypto-fascists is NOT about turning them, it is about stopping them recruiting our fellow citizens. The economic shock waves of the next global financial collapse feed the far right narrative, if you think this debate is going away, you are wrong.

We must protest them and we should try and engage in a way that dismantles their argument, not add to their martyrdom.

 

 

 

 

84 COMMENTS

  1. The best way to counter their hate speech?

    Assemble New Zealanders of every race, creed, colour, sexual orientation, etc and ring their venue holding hands. Show them what an inclusive New Zealand Aotearia looks like.

    Indulge in mass hugging and singing.

    Don’t scream, yell, intimidate or otherwise obstruct anyone going into the venue. In fact, welcome them and hand out flowers. Ignore provocations.

    Hippyish, I know. But if we want to show what tolerance looks like – I can’t think of a better way to do it.

    Countering hate with love is a damned powerful message to send those two.

    It will eat them up alive.

  2. It would have been best to ignore these people from the outset, if your hair is on fire over free speech, choose a different battle to make your point (Chris Trotter hello), start with te reo maybe, or our completely stilted rich white Auckland mainstream media.
    All this self righteous angst on free speech just increases their coverage , protesting makes these two look important.

    Stupidly, if these hate speech merchants make a connection with just one listener, they will have been successful in spreading their disease.

  3. In the sixties and early seventies publicly funded venues were only for the Right. I was a protester for most of the sixties and early seventies , and the nearest I got to a publicly funded venue was to be thrown violently out of them by the police. My venue was the streets and in particular Albert Park in Auckland.So I am somewhat bemused by the championing of exclusion from said premises by personages who claim to be on the left. Those who would limit our freedom of speech will find it is a two edged sword.

    • @ Historian Pete … Our paths must have crossed many times during the sixties and seventies at protests then, in Auckland and Albert Park. I carried on protesting right in to the 2000s.

      I’m a bit long in the tooth now and not as agile as I used to be then, so much of my protesting is through my keyboard these days. But I do support those who are prepared to stand up and go forward and make their views known, preferably in a passive way, without resorting to agitation.

      Southern and Molyneaux must be reminded not all Kiwis support their repugnant bigoted perspectives.

  4. So how should we defeat these Crypto fascists with out feeding their martyrdom.

    You may remember Martyn back in 2012 when a similar chain of events was attempted by Islamphobic Racists from Australia who linked up with the fundamemtalist Christian movement to do a tour here, but were successfully defeated by a counter campaign for inclusiveness and understanding.

    As a result the Islamaphobic event withered and died and ran out of steam.

    Rather than confront these fascists directly and give them the notoriety they seek. We could do the same again.

    We have already been given the opening to do this. The New Zealand Immigration Department has banned and delayed the granting of visas to Humanitarian Heroes wanting to speak here.

    We should hold a rally where empty seats for these banned humanitarian speakers are at the front and they have to give their speeches by Skype as we did with Edward Snowden.

    We should approach the Auckland City Council to give us the Auckland Town Hall for this event. And bill it as an Inclusiveness Rally Against intolerance and racism.

    Hopefully such a meeting will dwarf any pitiable meeting that Southern and Molynieux can organise.

    Humanists conference organisers shocked at Immigration NZ denials for “hero” members

    • Those banned from the Auckland Humanist International Conference are the two edged sword I was telling you about. I am not surprised !!!

      • Those who call for free speech for fascists refuse to acknowledge that there is no level playing field. There is a long standing double standard that confirms the racist nature of our border control laws. Where fascists and hatemongers (as long as they are white) have ease of entry. But Muslims and non-Europeans are routinely discriminated against.

        • Sadly,Jenny, free speech for far-right-wingers is never “free”. Someone eventually ends up paying for it when some neo-fascist acts on the speech they’ve been listening to, and people are attacked or lives are lost. Andre Brevik, Timothy McVeigh, Thomas Mair, et al, are evidence of that.

          We appear to be ‘fetishising’ some notion of right to “free speech” regardless of consequences – just as our American cuzzies worship their “right to bear arms” (regardless of consequences).

        • @ JENNY re “racist nature of our border control laws. Where fascists and hatemongers (as long as they are white) have ease of entry”

          …actually this betrays your racism…most countries have border controls including Israel, India , China , Japan….to mention but a few…and they are definitely ‘racist’ as you define it…some would redefine it as ‘cultural’

          …or do you advocate open borders for all Western ‘white ‘ countries then?…like Soros and some old Trotsyists who have lost the plot?

  5. Phil Goff just banned them to get good publicity for himself and turn the attention away from his secret reports about billion dollar stadiums that laughably had to be hidden and redacted from his own councillors and ratepayers, so freedom of speech and transparency is something he seems to struggle with.

    But wait, lovely opportunity to yet again fill the lawyers coffer’s with ratepayer cash, by using Phils own views to ban some group that nobody had even heard of before Phil Goff inadvertently started his free publicity campaign for them.

    Banning people for speaking their views should not be the role of council. If they breach the laws while here (hate speech) then that is the time the POLICE then arrest them.

    At present many genuine human rights activists seemed to being banned from attending other countries to speak so it is a slippery slope to start a pre emptive bans based on not liking what someone has to say, or that they might incite protests!

    • +100 SAVENZ…well said ( Phil Goff , former supporter of Roger Douglas
      and Rogernomics, is nothing if not a survivor)

  6. it will be interesting to see what others come up with, “practical leadership for practical action” is required here, tough talk from keyboards is one thing, though necessary, with all the online ideological to and fro on this issue of giving filthy neo fascists freedom of speech

    personally I hope numbers are willing to put some boots on and join a demo, or help shadow and annoy these two from arrival to departure, and that a few workers and business owners deny them service…and make their stay “memorable” in unpleasant ways

    ultimately it is about making the clear link for lots of younger New Zealanders, between the nazis that older NZers know quite a bit about, and what these shitheads really have in store for people–and it is not freedom of association and assembly–be assured of that!

    • What we should be doing is listening carefully to what these people say and are saying

      ….and put our thinking-caps on

      …and engage critical faculties

      ….and question more?

      shouting them down is not really an option because it denies them free speech

      …how many here and elsewhere actually know what these people are saying and why they have a following?

  7. No-platforming is what the Aussie protestors are doing, its not Goff or govt that no-platforms. What Goff did was a ban on council venues.
    Anti-fascists do not ban fascists they confront them and expose them as cowardly idiots to abort their movement.
    While Southern blames the Antifa as violent, she excuses herself firing flares at boats full of refugees.
    Her language and her actions are one and condemn her.
    Debating fascists does not stop them recruiting.
    Nor does begging the bosses state to stop them.
    Invariably the fascists and the state forces act together against antifascists.
    The US has just enacted a law that can jail Antifa for 15 years for wearing masks.
    Some years ago a number of us went into a meeting in Auckland with Irving the holocaust denier. We few were able to briefly disrupt his meeting.
    Irving hasn’t been back since and the National Front is a pathetic sight.
    The left that understands what a threat fascism is knows that the only language fascists understand is force.
    There is one hell of a difference between fascist violence and anti-fascist violence. Its not all one giant no-no called VIOLENCE that infects the right and left equally.
    Fascist violence is in the service of smashing the organized working class. That is why they come for the communists first.
    Workers violence is in the service of smashing an existential threat to the survival of humanity.

    • for the politically educated, those with a class analysis, and or some experience of what organised neo fascists are actually capable of, Dave is dead right

      but with our largely compliant, complacent population, and current low level of political organisation in this country, negating the “violence is violence” fascist/anti fascist narrative will be quite a task–one which must be attempted though! big numbers will help…

    • This is so progressive!First we have Tiger Mountain “Put some boots on and join a demo,” presumeably to smash filthy fascists. And then we have Dave of Trotsky/Leninist Party fame declaring”Workers violence in the service of smashing an existential threat” is great. Anti- fascist violence good, Fascist violence bad! The Brown Shirts of Hitler’s German National Socialists Workers Party would be impressed! Mao’s Red Guards would give you an award!And the storm troopers of the Soviet Red Terror would want to make you both Commissars! Well done!!!

  9. The idea of confronting the fascists, (and the police that will be called to protect them) mightn’t be the best ideal. (I have seen enough life changing violence in my life to make me want to stay away from it)

    I think that the following method of humiliating the fascists might be a better template to use.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10454377

    Pastor Stuart Robinson, Australian author of the book Mosques and Miracles, has drawn about 200 people to a conference in Greenlane this weekend aimed at revealing what he says are the true dangers of Islam.

    Meanwhile, rebel British left-wing MP George Galloway is expected to attract about 450 people to a rival meeting in Freemans Bay tonight to condemn Mr Robinson’s “islamophobia”.
    But Mr Galloway, a Catholic who has backed the Palestinian cause for 32 years, said New Zealand’s 45,000-strong Muslim community was moderate and law-abiding and had never carried out any terrorist acts.

    “Have you seen any signs of New Zealand’s Muslims launching a jihad [holy war]?” he asked. “Of course you haven’t. These people [Mr Robinson’s followers] are trying to place fear and hatred in the hearts of ordinary New Zealand people against peaceful neighbours.”

    He said statements at a Mosques and Miracles conference in Wellington on Wednesday that good Muslims must kill Christians and Jews would be illegal under a British law passed last year to ban religious hate speech. New Zealand does not have such a law.

    “One of the reasons we have it in Britain is the prevalence of this kind of anti-Muslim hate propaganda which becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy,” he said. “If you generate hatred against Muslims, you will get a reaction from young Muslims seeking to defend their community.”

    Mr Galloway’s public meeting is at the Auckland Girls Grammar School Theatre, Howe St, at 7.30 tonight.

    The Mosques and Muslims conference is closed to the public but Mr Robinson will preach at the venue, the Greenlane Christian Centre, at 9am, 10.45am and 7pm tomorrow.

    The huge counter meeting humiliated the Islamophobic racist campaign of Pastor Stuart Robinson, and nothing more was heard from him and his followers in this country.

    Why don’t we use this model again and fill the Auckland Town Hall with progressive and anti-Islamaphobic and refugee speakers. We could bring in the Humanist speakers banned by the government by Skype.

  10. Martyn 100%

    Yes the more we resist this pair the more we fuel the fires of discontant among us all.

    NZ is a typical country who fights to protect our ‘independance’.

    I for one do welcome anyone telling me what to think.

    I have always used the ‘rational’ that we all were all born without rules printed on our bodies so who gave others the power to tell me what to think and do when they were also born with no rules printed on them to have their right to order me around???

    This is the real meaning of liberty.

    “The economic shock waves of the next global financial collapse feed the far right narrative, if you think this debate is going away, you are wrong.”

  11. Just who, exactly, is going to turn up?

    How many will be curious to hear what the fuss is about? How many are already convinced? Facts are important here.

    When these people have gone – is there much in society here that supports the growth of these beliefs? Fix that first. Clean up the weeds.

    And all the haters/resisters: maaate! This is not an existential threat to your diet! For the fight’em! Stomp’em! brigade – from the outside you look just like the people of whom you’re complaining: closed minded, shouty, paternalistic. Right and left.

    If you don’t like what you’re seeing in the mirror then stop villainising so many segments of society (ostensibly to ‘right historic wrongs’). All this outrage and virtue signalling has done damn’ all to create employment and a fairer deal for all in this country. We’re more divided and anti than ever, in some quarters.

    Had you noticed that? Before you put your bovver boots on.

    Of course, if you want a totally unnecessary ruckus – please proceed. And pay for the inevitable damages out of your own pockets. Including compensating the innocent ‘collateral damage’.

    Play fair.

  12. For Southern and Molyneux’s arguments to be countered by standing and convincingly debate our values ,some written and incontrovertible facts have to be acknowledged about what they are talking about. This from someone who has not sought to learn what they are saying, I’m happy to assume it isn’t good.
    But what Andy says about some of the teachings in the islamic texts is there for people to look up. And it is evident that currently in the middle east some extremists are applying it literally with murderous effect.
    The same of course has been done by western christian powers in the past, taking extreme interpretations of the bible to justify and generate recruitment for the crusades, with no more moral rectitude.
    If these two are condemning Islam from the perspective of good devoted Christians , saying Islam bad Christianity good, well that should be pretty easy to counter. But if they are saying that most, esp Abrahamic religions can be invoked to persuade recruits to murder rape and destroy the lives of people of other religions , then I don’t think that can be countered.
    I suggest Quakerism if you have to be Christian , or Buddhist if your more flexible. Agnostic if you are truly honest and determined to avoid any religious doctrine that could be read as inciting violence.
    But if the objective is to minimise the exposure of some undesirable trouble-makers then treating them with ignore would have been my grandfather’s advice. As Keepcalmcarryon suggests.
    D J S

  13. I have two words for these people ” fuck of” never mind all the bullshit people have been espousing on this site. Who will be paying the police security bill when they speak, hope its not us the tax payer.
    Also I didn’t hear anything from these freedom of speech people when bob the knob jones said he will sue the two Maori women calling him and his views racist. So much for freedom of speech what a load of bull when millionaires can sue your backside of when they aren’t happy about reactions from their long held entrenched racist views.

  14. Build a coalition willing to attend and debate, ideally large enough to comprise a significant proportion of the audience. Research their ideas, history and the format of their events. Prepare compelling arguments to dismiss their tenuous ideas. Interject in a civil manner. Film the event.

    Conclusion: engage and challenge them in a reasoned manner, not emotive, deny them an unchallenged opportunity to deliver a sermon to their ilk which would be attractive for possible future such events.

    Employ this tactic amongst other protest actions ensuring they are all reasoned and dignified.

  15. What the left should do now is stop parroting the virtue-signalling MSM’s disingenuous use of “far right” – an emotive term designed to smear and silence those who simply question identity politics, oppose open-borders, and support free speech – none of which are remotely radical positions.

  17. Always a call for debating, but it misses the point hugely. People who are attracted to alt-right (or however you wish to describe them) aren’t interested in ideas. It’s the chance to have some form of power in their lives that attracts them. Don’t believe me, check out the level of debate and comments on right wing sites, or even sites like whaleoil and the daily mail. There is a dearth of ideas being expressed, but plenty of unthinking, bigoted bile.

  18. “So Southern and Molyneux might be coming – what do we do now”

    Me, I’m doing nothing. I have familes in real need, living in garages to assist. I’ll leave countering these neo-fascists to the free speech warriors who welcome their presence as an opportunity to debate till the cows come home. For the lowpaid and homeless this doesnt rank on their radar, strangely enough.

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