What the hell do Fairfax think they are doing by allowing a climate denial pimp like Doug Edmeades a platform?
The line up of cherry picked ‘fact’s Edmeades vomits up are all the usual bullshit and bluster climate deniers use.
He claims he is being skeptical because that’s good science when really this is just a collection of contrarian bullshit pretending to be facts.
Edmeades is an industry stooge whose job it is to sow scientific doubt about client change so the industry can get away with creating more pollution.
He claims the climate is always changing, which of course it is and if we were changing as we should based on the very rhythms of geological life he points to, the planet would be entering a cooling period.
It is not.
It is dangerously super heating.
Edmeades attempts to claim that the medieval warm period and the little ice age all mean the current warming us something else and not man made pollution. The simplicity of the stupidness from this arsehole is dangerous because it’s quack science and he’s trying to purposely confuse people away from what the science actually says, which is that dangerous climate change caused by human pollution is pushing the planet to v very brink of catastrophe.
Just because it got very cold and very hot before human pollution from the industrial age was being used doesn’t mean the pollution is causing enormous planet wide distress to the biosphere now.
Why are Fairfax giving this bullshit platform?
They already have  a track record of being the voice of climate deniers by giving Doug Edmeades a previous column where he attacked Mike Joy as a scientist. Â
Imagine if Fairfax had been allowed to merge with the NZME how much more climate denial propaganda would have been produced?
Fiarfax’s climate denial must be challenged and attacked at every step.
quite simple bomber old chap. the motor trade buy all the advertising.
‘A marine heatwave has led to New Zealand’s coastal waters jumping 2-4C warmer than a year ago.
The South Island has seen the most drastic change with some waters recording a jump of 6C, and temperatures sitting as high as 20C in December, according to the National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research (NIWA).
………It’s nothing to be too alarmed about….’
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/sea-temperatures-rise-across-nz/ar-AAuM5Fh?li=AAaeXZz&ocid=spartandhp
And so, as the meltdown of the planet accelerates (as is clearly indicated by the Antarctic sea ice cover, which is not only the lowest ever recorded but also showing the most rapid fall on record https://ads.nipr.ac.jp/vishop/#/extent )
we are told by the corporate media (quoting someone who is not a geochemist) that it’s nothing to be alarmed about.
Of course, we now know that NZ is run by banks and corporations for the short-term benefit of banks and corporations, and that the fossil fuel lobby sector and the road transport sector can churn out any misinformation they like and get away with it.
Business-as-usual is the only narrative the corporate sector knows. Business-as-usual is the only narrative the media knows. Business-as-usual is the only narrative central and local government know, even if business-as-usual leads to utter catastrophe in the medium term and ultimately results in extinction of the human species (along with extinction of most other species on this planet).
Business-as-usual means continued mass consumption of fossil fuels, so we can look forward to continued increases in atmospheric CO2, more overheating, and ever worsening climatic conditions, until the insane economic system collapses.
Patrick you believe the media believe in balance????????
Go back to your media and chirp that climate change is not real to collect your pay chappy.
Good for you when your property is under water you may wake up then perhaps or not.
Martyn you ask “Why are Fairfax giving this bullshit platform?”
Simply fairfax are desperate for funds, and will take even the oil companies ‘dirty money’ sadly theyb have no moral compass..
I think it is a pertinent time to explore the New Guinea Cargo cult. Why? Because we have the modern day equivalent sprung up in our midst!But more of that later.
During the second World War New Guinea natives observed American forces building airstrips in the jungle,and then cargo planes would arrive and disgorge a vaste array of goodies.So, the enterprising natives constructed their own airfields in the jungle, complete with control towers and wind direction instruments and waited. And waited!
Today we have, and I coin the phrase “The Great Inundation Cult” who are waiting for the sea levels to rise catastrophically .Unfortunately the world wide tidal gauges measuring sea levels don’t show the sea level rising to the requisite level. So, our High Priest Cultists have come up with the cunning plan of falsifying the tidal gauge data to fit in with their theories.There is another snag. Throughout the West there has been an almost universal phenonema of journalist and scientists getting into line and echoing the ‘Western Narrative”. Dr. Worner, who was chief scientist for the tidal gauges ,is that rare individual who refuses to be bullied or silenced. This hoax has been aided and abetted by the IPCC falsifying data and NASA.[with bogus satellite measurements.]
Unfortunately for the GIC [Great Inundation Cult],this is not a great long term business plan,as it is going to be obvious to the casual observer in the near future that the sea levels are not rising more than 1.1 mm universal mean per annum!
Cultists like to identify themselves,so I would expect that they will start wearing a uniform of sorts,- perhaps a matching ensemble of gumboots,waterwings, tie or scarf,emblazoned with suitable doom phrases.
As the years go by , I suggest you will see sporadic outbursts of anger at the sea for refusing to rise above the 1.1 mm mean level.It will be much like King Canute raging at the temerity of the tide coming in.
I predict Basil Fawlty like outbreaks, with GIC disciples thrashing the foreshore with branches of trees, in a vain attempt to teach it a lesson!
And those not fooled by the Great inundation Hoax, like me, will chuckle, and wonder that Mankind ever managed to climb out of the primeval ooze , with such stupidity abroad!?!
The corruption that is indicated among environmental scientists falsifying data from the physical environment begs the question ,where did this come from? Is this corruption exceptional or is it endemic? The answer lies in the endemic corruption that can be observed in the U.S. in just about every occupation and discipline.No surprises about the lawyers [most members of Congress], and bankers/financial consultants.Only four Economists predicted the 2008 Financial crisis, out of thousands.There are the Doctors:70,000 who were found to be over prescribing their patients with opioids, which has led to mass addiction and a progression to heroin addiction and all the attendant social problems.This is only the tip of the iceberg as can be shown in multiple areas such as unneccessary surgical operations.”Do no harm” has been replaced by “maximise the contents of my bank account”.And then we have the scientists.In the pharmaceutical and agricultural industries we have scientists involved in revolving doors with the regulatory authorities , receiving handsomely paid jobs for showing a blind eye to bogus testing.”Independent scientists” putting articles in professional journals turning out to be paid consultants for nefarious Corporations such as Montsanto.Scientists are bought and sold like prostitutes in a Bordello, except the prostitutes are more honest!
So why doesn’t the U.S. Government clean this up? You have to be joking! 95% of members of Congress vote according to the dictates of their lobbyists .And hopefully you observed [on Fox, CNN,BBC, or RT] the members of the Congress Investigation Committee cross examining the chief executives of Twitter ,Facebook, and Google about Russia interfering in the U.S election.When they confessed that they had no evidence, they were told on camera, in front of the Nation, that they better come up with some ,or there would be serious repercussions. In other words, either find it or manufacture it!
With the Man Made Global Warming movement it soon became clear that the road to a cushy job with generous research grants was to enthusiastically embrace Global Warming, and in fact the more extreme your predictions, the more your income went up!
And so we had extreme pressure on physical scientists to come up with the data to mirror the Computer Scientists predictions.In the context of a thoroughly corrupt business environment, it is probably hardly surprising that they quickly moved to the norm i.e. Fake it till you make it! They were positive that the sea levels would go up to the requisite levels eventually, so why not falsify the tidal gauge data? Like, everyone else is falsifying data! Why shouldn’t we? And everyone else has got into line. Why not Dr.Worner? And if he doesn’t ,we will do to him what we have done to others like Essange. Destroy his reputation with bogus crimes/manufactured documents/manipulation of his colleagues.
So, how does Western Civilization prosper with this scenario? Well, of course it doesn’t.The end of all great civilizations has been preceded by endemic corruption.Way back we zigged when we should have zagged.Instead of ” honesty and integrity” we went for” maximize your personal income and to hell with everyone else.” It could have been so different.” Perhaps that will be our epitaph!!!
Nice little deflecting conspiracy lecture. None of which has anything remotely to do with climate change.
But it doesn’t answer the question as to who has been “manipulating” satellite data. That’s a serious allegation to make. Surely you must have an answer ,Pete.
How many times do I have to say that NASA is manipulating Satellite Data Frank? The same group that Dr.Worner says is manipulating Satellite data.If I said it in Mandarin would it help? All I have said about the endemic corruption in the U.S is readily available if you go beyond the MSM. You don”t , so you are doomed to be always a sycophant mesmerized with your admiration for the neo-liberal establishment. Get over your Clintonista disappointment! The corruption I have itemized is very relevant as it explains how formerly honest scientists back in the days have become corrupted.I don’t believe that the scientists in the 50’s and 60’s were corrupt like they are today. I don’t believe NASA was corrupt either. Their rockets flew reliably then, unlike today.Do you have some other explanation for the ineptness of todays NASA scientists? In the same way, a journalist like Walter Cronkite, who was respected by the U.S.Nation, could not exist in the MSM in the U.S. today. He would be fired for not parroting the Western narrative, as all journalists who have done so have found out!
Where is Dr Mörner’s evidence that NASA “is manipulating Satellite data”? Just because he says it’s a thing doesn’t make it true. If you’re taking him on faith, then say so and we move on.
Why don’t you answer my questions? You only ever answer my questions with a question. Such tactics is shoddy inept journalism!
So you can’t present Mörner’s evidence then?
Actually, I’d like to see references/citations to Morner’s claims as well. If NASA has fudged data, we should be able to asses his claims.
Can you share the links with us Pete?
I will answer your question and then you will answer my questions.Patrick complains you have the mentality of a five year old. I have some sympathy with this view. Fortunately I have in the days taught 5 year olds, and indeed slow learners. So we have a chance here. I will type slowly. I want you against the odds to engage your grey matter. At this stage, in my class, I would engage your attention by directing homilies at you, such as “Frank,leave Hot Bettie’s pigtails alone, you grubby little Savage!” Or, “For Christs sake Frank, leave your tie alone!If you don’t stop touching your tie, you will go blind!” Get the picture? Now, Dr.Morner has been presenting the data on the tidal gauges for 35 years. He was the foremost authority on tidal gauges. He had an impeccable career. There was no good reason that anyone should not accept his data on the sea levels. There was no evidence that his tidal gauges were malfunctioning. And then the IPCC inexpliceably started changing his data to be 3 times his data level. And then NASA claimed their measurements to be the same as the IPCC. The explanation offered by the IPCC for changing Dr.Worners data was that it did not fit in with the computer simulations.At this stage you will no doubt be nodding your head Frank, and saying”perfectly reasonable of the IPCC and NASA.” You reside on a parallel universe where the rules are quite different from mine. On mine the end does not justify the means.
Now, my question is:Why can Nasa no longer reliably put a rocket into orbit that does not have an unfortunate tendency to fall out of the sky? Is it because of ineptitude and corruption? And are they rather embarrassed that their only way up to the International Space Station is via a Russian rocket?- Now, I know you revere NASA and are near to vomiting at having to answer these questions- but man up! Steel yourself!
Pete, your comments are becoming more unhinged.
As for the person’s name, you can’t even seem to get that right. It’s “Morner” (according to your first reference to him dated January 17, 2018 at 8:23 pm) -not “Worner”.
Resorting to ad hominem attacks now, Historian Pete? You do realise that shoots you down and shows you lacking in any counter-information. If you have valid information, share it with us. Calling someone a five year old mentally doesn’t cut the mustard.
Pete: He has answered it. When will you answer his (and mine): where is the evidence for Morner’s claims?
Meanwhile, as Patrick and Pete quibble, the Met Office has announced today;
ref: https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/348835/summer-scorcher-weekend-is-the-real-heat-the-apex
But the climate-shit will really hit the fan when the Russian Siberian frozen tundra begins to melt and releases methane into the air;
ref: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/20/hell-breaks-loose-tundra-thaws-weatherwatch
It may already be too late.
A Kiwi scientist Jim Kennet who grew up in Island bay, and a keen diver in his youth, gave new meaning to large depression in the ocean floor off Cook Strait
.
https://www.victoria.ac.nz/antarctic/about/events/s-t-lee-lecture/lecture-2004
Methane bombs and evidence of them are now much better understood. The role they play in warming of the planet is accepted in the scientific community as being part of the rapid increase in warming found in past ages.
Nothing new there but what is new it the observations and measurements of rapidly increasing methane stream from the Arctic ocean floor.
This data and what it means has not been quantified so has not be included in the IPCC summary and forecast. We are not speculative so are not prepared.
Frank, your debating on this issue has been exemplary. It’s a shame I can’t say the same for the two climate change deniers who have ducked questions, attacked you personally, and deflected all over the place.
This is why climate change deniers can’t be taken seriously. When challenged, they become belligerent and resort to personal attack.
A personal note for Patrick – you stuffed up big time by referring to Frank’s living arrangements. You got it so wrong. But as Frank said, it’s none of your goddamn business. All it shows is you had to resort to petty vindictiveness to try to close down the debate. Your a sad sad person Patrick.
And meanwhile, we’re going throuigh the hottest decade in history. Something Patrick and Pete might realise if they took notice what’s going on around them.
Priss to notice what is around them may take more than what they are capable of in their present state of belief.
They have bought into what makes them feel secure.
The dark ages are full that sort of stuff. Humans come in many shapes, shades of thinking and beliefs. Relatively few can openly examine evidence without their beliefs giving strong bias and confusing their ability to apply logic. False arguments are an interesting study.
Reductionism is a very common and misleading arena that many do not pick up on. Reductionist standpoints may be of interest but cannot be applied to a bigger picture. That is where they have find themselves, arguing away and talking basic nonsense.
But they often notice spelling mistakes and other insignificant points which may irritate them.
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