Fascinating ructions erupting everywhere over the Labour-Green Civil Union, the powers that be must be spooked.
That said, this announcement has been surprisingly clumsy. Why the hell didn’t they agree on a basic policy platform and which electorates they would and wouldn’t stand in against each other? Those two things could now be the focus of media attention rather than the fact that their Memorandum of Understanding – the most colourless and visionless name ever – is as hollow as National’s Housing Policy.
If this is Labour and the Greens ‘working’ together, it explains the utter failure of the last 8 years.
Why this matters and why this is significant however is all behind the scenes, and because of the huge internal successes this announcement represents, I think the teams emerged expecting a standing ovation when most have little idea how much both parties have moved.
This move shuts down the Right with Labour and it stops Shaw pulling the Party to the Right (although astoundingly he couldn’t tell Radio NZ that he wouldn’t rule out National).
The execution of this announcement was terrible. I was a guest speaker at the Alliance Party Conference that Helen Clark made her historic visit at. It was a room full of cheering members and a genuine excitement of the two parties working together. This announcement had none of that, and a cheering room of supporters could have avoided the appalling amount of Green supporters who went to social media to vent their thoughts at being included with Labour with the same enthusiasm as a vegan finding chicken in their tofu.
The Greens working with Labour by standing candidates aside will give huge advantage to the Left and it means they have something to negotiate with NZ First over, but those advances have all been blurred by this clumsy announcement and execution.
And for fucks sake will Andrew Little stop assuring us all that it’s not a ‘monogamous relationship’. This isn’t a polyamorous Wellington flat warming.
“Why the hell didn’t they agree on a basic policy platform and which electorates they would and wouldn’t stand in against each other?”
Hopefully this will come, or at least their voters will now listen to what their candidates say. For example, in Chch Central the Greens candidate at the last election asked the Green voters to give their electorate vote to the Labour candidate, but the Chch Central Green voters didn’t listen and Nicky Wagner got in.
I’m more concerned about what Labour will do if Hone runs again in Te Tai Tokerau again. At the last election Labour teamed up with National, ACT, the Maori Party, NZ First and United future, to eliminate MANA. Disgraceful.
Hone himself will make little difference on the whole. He may have principles and deserve his place, also representing many down the bottom, but he is representing a party that is just a one percent party, that is for those at the bottom. That will hardly change the political landscape, as it did not do so before.
“Hone himself will make little difference on the whole”
Yeah, this is true, but the left has to start somewhere. I’d give my vote to Mana again, or any left party that emerges in the future. I can’t vote for Labour considering what their policies have done to my life.
Perhaps the Greens, but I’d like to see them return to their more radical roots.
Also, I wouldn’t underestimate the power of having a Mana MP in a coalition. The effect could be the same as what ACT do, but Labour choose not to play MMP…maybe this election eh?
About now, without going into the lying depravity of Crosby Textor, Labour especially need PR and marketing assistance urgently! No doubt Little is straight up and compared with the wall of lies and deception emanating from every pore of the National party that’s refreshing, but presentation is parsmount. Our awful corporate media will look for any excuse to destroy this.
1000% XRAY you hit the mark there.
Indeed why doesn’t labour fund drive for an effective PR machine to counter NatZ toxic Crosby Textor mob?
Oh good, you got to exercise some words emphasising the negative again. Whose side are you on?
The first kiss in a successful romance can sometimes be clumsy
+1000 Esoteric Pineapples!
I’m not a green Party member or advocate (despite my name I have more in common with Greenpeace) but do commend the greens’ for not doing the unthinkable, as they signalled earlier to court National.
Our real king hit will be getting Winston & NZ First on board in some support arrangement now, since the crux strategy of this grand campaign to un-seat the national party grip on the treasury benches come the election has been graphically made clear during the press release.
Yes it was somewhat clumsy.
Martyn’s comments that there should have been some prior groundwork as to what Regions/Electorates they would not cross during the election but this may come later.
Yes this effectively does shut the door on “National aspirations” to pocket/bag the greens now and that will cause immense damage to National light voters as they had thought greens were actually veering right.
Yes this is very interesting times now.
I always believe the coalition between at least all three opposition Parties must occur to finally unseat these crime ridden toxic right wing regimes and sweep them from power in 2017 which is creeping ever so closer by the week.
Lastly as I have said many times, this “coalition of the willing to remove the Nat’s” must also put together a legal claim to place in the court our rights as half of the public madia TVNZ/RNZ.
We as half the voting public need them to seize half the public media so the Opposition will have a clear media platform to operate from.
So as we 50% voting public voters who voted for Lab/Greens/NZ First need to use our 50% voting block, we request them as our representatives then legally take back our rights to have them control half of the public asset we own and pay for!
This is pivital to present the electorate with a “balanced” view of all our current issues in NZ today so we may see real changes made in future and just think if we had the media before the announcement yesterday of the agreement with Labour/greens perhaps we would have had some deep and enduring public input into a better plan for all three to combine in a less clumsy way than we have today.
You haven’t quite explained that if you get this 50% of public broadcasting how you will get people to watch and not just end up speaking to the converted. There’s this pesky thing about choice – the channels you want to take over are falling behind their audience.
Michael,
What’s your suggestion?
To offer a marketing contract to Crosby Textor or someone else?
If you are really wanting to offer constructive input here rather than just questions you don’t respond to as in the last question you asked of me on Election process, and if you are on the opposition side;
Who would you recommend to be the PR machine to take on Crosby Textor?
+100 CLEANGREEN…”I always believe the coalition between at least all three opposition Parties must occur to finally unseat these crime ridden toxic right wing regimes and sweep them from power …
Completely agree too !!
I think the Greens have made a terrible mistake here: They’ve just confirmed their brandings as ‘The Other Left Party’ rather than sticking to being truly green.
In the voters minds, a vote for the Greens is just a vote for Labour so no way are more conservative greens (blue greens – for example I’m one) going to cross over from National. Thus dooming the Greens to their ~10% at every election and permanent opposition.
Their other mistake is to attach themselves to a born loser – Andrew Little. He has the smell of defeat and desperation all over him. So the Greens need to keep away for fear of gaining the same negative miasma.
The Greens need to move on from their past. They need to be Bright Green not dull green! More positivism is required and they need to stay independent so they are more ‘dangerous’ at election time. Maybe develop a subset of practical policies that aren’t totally batty and have the ability to go with National to get those implemented if the opportunity arose, thereby getting some runs on the board.
Did Andrew Little bully you as a child or something?
My guess is that he got his lunch money taken off him in the playground. 😉
Child you are aren’t you!
How could the Greens seriously be about environmentalism AND sit to the right of Labour on the left-right spectrum?
It’s not possible. Labour are as right-wing as they can go, before they start to overtake Peter Dunne and National.
Sure, it’s a wet-dream for the ‘blue-greens’ such as yourself to have the Greens team up with the pollution-producers, but ‘blue greens’ is the most idiotic position ever. Environmental neoliberalism? What next, a friendly massacre? A kind gunshot to the face? A helpful machete through your neck?
News for you Andrew, perpetual growth and environmentalism don’t go together. ‘Blue greens’ are simplistic ideologues who jump on bandwagons – the ideologue is the ‘blue’ and the bandwagon is ‘green’ politics. Have some self respect and own up to your ideology, instead of masking your shame with an environmental veneer. Thanks for the lols Andrew.
FATTY:
We are all the “pollution producers”. Companies only make what we buy.
If you’re seriously considering discarding the free market in order to improve the environment I suggest you take a hard look at the last 100 years of authoritarian socialist & communist experiments and note what an awful mess they all left behind.
A lot can be achieved within the existing framework, but that won’t happen as long as the Greens are on the outside looking in.
“If you’re seriously considering discarding the free market in order to improve the environment I suggest you take a hard look at the last 100 years of authoritarian socialist & communist experiments and note what an awful mess they all left behind.”
Only you, Trump, Whaleoil and a few other simpletons continue to red-bait after the global financial crisis. You’re stuck in cold-war logic, and your ideological outbursts will no longer work in the way they did in the 1990s. You make me laugh.
The problem of pollution is a result of growth and consumption. Capitalism today, and 20th Century socialism were based on a religious zeal for growth and mass consumption. That’s why 20th Century socialism and capitalism cannot be Green. We can limit growth and mass consumption, but never within a capitalist structure. We must go towards some other system that reduces consumption and growth – e.g. eco-socialism.
I’m sorry if this is news for you Andrew, but 20th Century socialism and today’s capitalism are barely distinguishable. I’m happy to denounce 20th Century socialism, but you cling onto your doomed ideology like a drowning rat. I’m anti- growth and mass consumption, but you’ll never be if you keep waiving your pom-poms for capitalism. No wonder you get so angry on here – deep down you know your system is the problem
FATTY:
History shows us that the worse environmental disasters occur in authoritarian socialist/communist states.
As soon as you depart from individual liberty and a free market, decisions get made by Party apparatchiks rather than those most able and with due consultation. eg Chernobyl.
Regarding your “pollution-producers”: That’s all of us, because companies only make the products we will buy. So just blaming business is hypocritical. We all own the problem
The Greens will get more traction if they develop some policies that could be implemented in the real world and they set themselves up as king-makers in 2017.
Erm…. was the Three Mile Island incident somewhere near Moscow ?….
And errr …. were the uranium mines that were on Sioux Indian reservations (still being ‘cleaned up ‘ after 50 years of neglect)
somewhere on the outskirts of St Petersburg ?
Gee whiz…
Was the Fukushima nuclear realtor meltdown at the back of a shopping center in Novosibirsk , Russia?
Hmmmm… those pesky Russky’s and their environmental disasters .
Strangely enough while I rarely agree with you on anything, and I’m not sure I do about the start of your comment but your last paragraph I do agree with. The Greens were the “not politics but principles” party – they seem to be losing that.
Says a person without a single Green bone in his body.
You are like all the Natz Keys – when you can’t divide and conquer you get confused, erratic and abusive.
The prospect of opposition parties joining forces against your messiah frightens the s..t out of you.
Diddums!
10000% – Beautifully done Mike the leftie,
Can you now wipe the bullshit that came out of Andrew’s mouth that soiled all our site off your boots before coming inside please.
God he is deranged, He should now that his Government is the worst CO2 Polluter in History all n done under a “free market” economy!
Desperate times ( New Zealand going backwards fast) call for desperate measures! And Wnnie needs to stop bleating and join them – this National Government needs to go!
were Daily Blog writers not invited to the launch or something? nevertheless this MoU initiative should be given a reasonable chance up till the 2017 election
possibly the best thing that could happen is if “Epsoms” start happening in key electorates to finally dispatch some of the real pests of parliament that have helped the Nats union bust and ramp up inequality
Labour possibly has finally realised it is-a-player not-the-player in the MMP environment and that has to be a positive in developing united action against the Nats
I have found it interesting that msm hasn’t made a “too big a deal” out of the MOU between labour and the Greens, apart from hinting it could be a disaster, which is to be expected from media.
Seems it’s been dropped like a hot potato!
Could the reason for that be, msm has been “directed” not to keep the MOU out there in focus, in case it gets attention, giving the masses a chance to consider what it might mean?
True that Mary,
very evident that their is a gag order on the slack silent gagged media.
Even RNZ is being obviously told not to mention the MOU either as I listened all morning to RNZ and a usual event of this magnitude would have been covered with Guests interviewed at RNZ on this MOU event.
But nothing during the usually critics in “morning report” or any other public affairs coverage, and strangely John Campbell also is missing this week as well???????
Again this shows what I am advocating for is we must have our Opposition Parties place a court order to seize half of our asset of TVNZ/RNZ from these NatZ, – as we represent half of NZ all voters for Labour/greens/NZ First, and also we paid taxes through public funding for these services we are not now receiving.
Pick it up labour-Greens-NZ first please!
whoar..!
..i’m a ‘natz’..?
..who knew..?…..not me..
heh..!
..you’re funny..!
..i cd call you just another blowhard/animal-eating ‘green’..
..but i won’t..eh..?
tinfoil hat back on..!
..breathe thru the nose…!
..j.c.is off ‘sick’..eh..?
..didyathink whaleoil kidnapped him..?..or sumfing…?
..look..!…over there…!
(‘ve said it before….you’re funny..!..)
Thank goodness and common sense they are showing some willingness to co-operate at last, however they’ve managed the announcement.
It is far more important to get rid of the dishonest economic fascism currently destroying our society, than to quibble over the style of the announcement or a lack of a collective policy.
I’d suggest it is too early to be talking policy, which would give National the opportunity to steal or deflate ideas well before the election campaigning begins.
A welcome move.
i find it somewhat astonishing how you and trotter are both pissing all over this..
..both of you hearkening back to some arcane political meeting you both attended..and obviously enjoyed..and why oh why wasn’t this one like this..?
..f.f.s..!..the agreement to not cannabilise each others’ votes in crucial electorates is the most significant move in progressive politics in bloody eons…
..if only for that reason (and that is not the only one)..these tentative steps towards political-sanity on the left is to be applauded…
..not given a golden-shower..
http://www.whoar.co.nz/2016/ed-excellent-electorate-component-significant-part-labourgreens-deal/
Up to your old tricks again Phillip Ure?
You still are needed by the natZ to spay their toxic crap all over the place?????
Enough with you;
We put you in their nasty NatZ camp years ago,
So you are still hearkening back to some arcane political time when you used to spray your toxic shit out last year at pre-election time?
Go back to your Whale oil mates, we don’t need your crap here, we need constructive dialogue.
Natz don’t do constructive do they, just watch parliament for 10 minutes any day operating under Toxic natZ.
Have to agree with you there Phillip, I cannot understand the anger either, Trotter yes because he’s a JK fan, but I don’t understand Martyn’s reaction.
It was clumsy and I personally hated the MOU – more corporate speak – ahhhhh!!!
But it is a victory none the less and we have to be more positive for the budding romance. They are good for each other!
If they really want to change NZ, they need to be elected and to do this they must do everything they can to do that, because National fights dirty and uses bullying, cheating, money and MSM to cling to power.
And although clumsy and you are spot on on many of your comments about their execution , commentators that want a change of government need to be supportive!
I also was disappointed no policy, BUT again thinking about it, that was a good move, otherwise they might bring disaster for middle NZ by talking about bringing in more taxes.
The less policy the better – it focused media on just the co operation so all they could do that was negative was point out Winston Peters was kingmaker!
It didn’t take the Herald’s Claire Trevett long to start raining shitbolts down on the new alliance. Ah, Granny, you’re so predictable.
Claire Trevett, taking over from Audrey Young for the Nats. Straight off the bat, fuck this , the left cooperating, this is terrible, better write a tirade of loathing and hope for the worst.
Shabby bit of partisan writing.
100% XRAY
Let me think back to the last time Labour and the Greens ‘worked together’ and Labour pursued policies based on increased globalisation, protection of the banking sector and general trashing of the environment -think Harry Duynhoven signing away fossil fuel exploration to overseas corporations- and the Greens went along for the ride.
So what is different this time? Labour is still fully committed to globalisation, protecting the banking sector and trashing the environment etc. And the Greens still want to play politics instead of actually being green.
Afewknowthetruth some of what you say is true but we are in another world now from then aren’t we?
Once the natZ are rightly ejected and their entrails are gutted along with their toxic policies that are destroying our vry fabric then we should look of how to never go back to this toxic time again by placing legislation as natZ are doing every week but new legislation to protect our rights to have protections included for us to receive a kinder caring principled governance that is enshrined in law like the US constitution was setup.
Perhaps a new NZ Bill of rights as US has must be the only way to keep future governments honest to the people of whom elected them.
It must include a policy to prevent any corporation control over our MSM or government is paramount also.
Lots more to build on this though.
Martyn why don’t you get involved with a political party and make sure that they do things properly…oh, that’s right you were…how did that go?
If you genuinely want the left to succeed why not just get in behind the cause and help build some capacity. There have been 8 long years of National’s damaging rule and the left have been fractured and demoralised. This MoU is a tentative and positive move forward, why can’t you celebrate the potential and possibilities and help build an alternative government in waiting? Instead you are just throwing stones from the sideline, easy to do but hardly helpful.
I would like to know… if there was more strategic voting in marginal seats, how this would affect Labours List. Would Andrew Little have a problem being elected even if he was number 1 on the list?
I for one applaud the Alliance as the start of something with potential to succeed. Perhaps we can put aside the endless wrangling on the Left and look for a positive way forward.
I was disheartened by Chris Trotter’s effort on the Paul Henry show.The Right produce doctrinaire cheerleaders like Michele Boag and David Farrar. We produce snide political “commentators” like Chris, essentially a good man but often lost in a world that is no more, or prey to hysterical hyperbole, Dial-a-Left-in-Name-Onlys like Josie Pagani, or cautious micro-maniacs like Mike Williams et al. In truth the future doesn’t have to be so bleak. There are plenty out there who can agree with much of the Left programme. But the discussion seems so often to get lost in the weeds of process orthodoxy.
The way ahead is not, actually, a return to powerful Trade Unions and rigid employment laws. The world has changed, whether we like it or not. We have to go out and find new unions, and believe it or not, new unions-in-waiting are out there. We still live in a one-man-one-vote. While that lasts, there is always a wy to make progress. The solution will be way less sexy than some one-size-fits-all magic bullet, but it isn’t a magic bullet we are looking for -is it?
Here’s a dirty little secret. The most effective and successful socio-economic solution will be the right blend of all sorts of philosophies. There will be some State intervention and some free trade and some capital gains taxation and some private enterprise and some government support and so on. (Just try for a moment to visualize a world where this is not the case. Is this really a world you want to inhabit?)
In the end it isn’t about all those things. They are just process: a means to an end. What matters are the targets. Once you start to list your targets you will immediately be able to see the embryo of any number of Unions. So what do you want?
Here’s one: a house. To get a house, the question of whether you are a well-paid young professional, a middle aged tradie or an older sickness beneficiary will make a big difference to how you get that house but a policy that includes all of these people will be complex and subtle and flexible. But as long as they see themselves in the mix, they can all buy in.
Here’s another one: rivers clean enough to swim in. Who doesn’t want that. Especially people who live near a river they used to be able to swim in. Suddenly Rural New Zealand come into play with common cause with the Left. (Especially the Greens? Not really. Everyone wants a better, cleaner environment). So there you have the beginning of a strategy that can invade the traditional National Party lock. Not everyone is a Marginal Land dairy farmer. But offered a plan that proposes new directions which offer a way out of the current mess for struggling farmers who drank the Milk-bonanza Kool-aid, along with a return to an environment they once knew…..?
So start with your top ten targets. Say “we will use whatever tools necessary to achieve those target”. Say: “we have no intention of being doctrinaire in seeking those targets”. And then take the fight straight to the National Party stronghold. Encourage National supporters with a conscience to see the light. Do it directly and explicitly. Tell them that when the opportunity comes, they will have no choice but to select the only political movement that can ever produce a country worth living in – for everyone!
I have no doubt that a party, or party union, aggressively and seductively going forward, rather than simply trying to hang onto whatever rump votes they can, will win in the end.
This alliance could actually go somewhere. We just need the courage and the smarts to take it there.
By the way, there is no such thing as a Blue-Green. There are only Left policy sympathisers who can’t vote their conscience for Tribal reasons.
While climate change denial and the withering of the State’s duty to protect the natural environment, in exchange for profit, are principle elements of the Right’s creed, the concept “Blue-Green” can only be an oxymoron.
Mark this down Martyn, May 31st 2016 was the day that the left handed another election victory to the National Party. You are delusional if you think that NZ First will conduct any negotiations with this new combo of the desperate and forlorn. They’ve given Winston the excuse to join up with National in 2017. Is there any long term thinking or planning be applied here?
Michael;
Iv’e now got your number – so we all will now ignore your National party crap as you are just another NatZ troll, so get lost you sad creature!
I think rather that they are playing their cards close to their chest – as the saying goes – at the moment.
If they released much detail at the moment it would only serve as an excuse by National’s MSM cronies to take the attention away from the government’s appalling response to social and housing issues.
I am happy about this, I am not an exclusive supporter of Labour or the Greens but I identify with more of their policies than any other parties so I hope it proves positive for them and damaging for this rotten corrupt National government.
I hope it leads to some electorate accommodation in the next election. But I assume it will be done honestly. I believe that you shouldn’t stand a candidate in an electorate unless you want to win. National dishonestly stands fall guys in electorates it doesn’t want to win and I hope Labour and the Greens don’t go in for that kind of jiggery pokery.
Interesting that National’s Gerry Brownlie responds in childish (but typically National) style by comparing it to TV’s The Batchelor.
This shows that National is scared at the prospect of the Greens and Labour working together. National is most successful when it can divide and conquer and if it can’t divide the centre-left forces then it has a fight on its hands, despite the false bravado from the Keystone cops in parliament.
Disappointing post Bomber. Nothing clumsy about it all. Was very smoothly run and both said they’d been working on it for months. Not sure where you and Trotter are getting your info from.
Hey guys put TB on the b list
Well said TB.
” Why the hell didn’t they agree on a basic policy platform and which electorates they would and wouldn’t stand in against each other?”
There’s no pleasing some people, is there. Is that you writing, Chris Trotter? Hello….?
Did Winston draft the MOU for them? He seems to be the biggest winner out of this. I am pleased to see the Greens and Labour agree to work together, although I agree with Martyn Bradbury that the announcement was clumsy and maladroit. The Parties’ failure to agree on some policies was a gift to the Nats – which they exploited cleverly by showing up the glaring inconsistencies between Labour and Greens policies on Auckland housing. I’ve no doubt there’ll be much mor to come in this vein. Finally, why do people assume the Greens will have to stand down their candidates in certain electorate so Labour can win the seat? FWICS, some Labour candidates are so thoroughly toxic to the electorate that a fresh Green candidate might have a better chance of winning.
“If this is Labour and the Greens ‘working’ together, it explains the utter failure of the last 8 years.”
Those accusing Martyn of “negativism” should sit down and reflect, what does this belated MoU actually mean? Does it mean much anyway, but at least a minimum level of commitment by Greens and Labour to work together?
It happened at the wrong time in the wrong way, with no fanfare and with no members’ support, which could make the difference.
It should have been done after Labour’s conference, or early next year, but again, they rushed, I fear, because Andrew is feeling the pressure, he is NO succeeding as a convincing leader. He was always a transition guy and trying to glue together what was seen as broken, and hence the broken, glued together pieces, they could not agree on policy, and hence we have almost NO real policy we know and can rely on from Labour.
The party is near DEAD, that is my honest opinion, dear friends, Andrew decided to pull this off, to try to get some momentum and attention, nothing else.
Metiria went along, thinking, well, we must work together anyway, so what the fuss.
But it looks desperate, the MSM just love “desperate” stuff, so they can dig into it and dismantle it, so they do.
It is a huge fail of an initiative, it has not succeeded as they hoped.
Meanwhile Winston will exploit this, presenting himself and his party as the only true and reliable, competent opposition, while the others flounder and have too much to deal with themselves.
For the first time in my life, I am seriously tempted to give my party vote to NZ First in 2017!
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