Dear NZ First – I will punch any Toilet Police in the face

1. Many people vote by emotion rather than logic (how else can you explain any of the political parties getting supported) so Winston has obviously decided that there are votes in the WC. My view is that the WC is the best place for him although he will be hoping over 5% think he deserves better.

2. Crazy stuff from Peters. Go to any big sports match or large gathering and it is not unusual to see ques of woman at the men’s toilet block to use the cubicles. Men use the urinals and women the cubicles. All done with great respect.

   • All these men whining away about not getting into the ladies’ loos should go before they leave home, just like their mumsies used to make sure they did.

   • “All done with great respect.”

     Respect involves respecting single-sex provisions for the significant benefits they hold for women and girls, and not using the under provision of female facilities to excuse breaking boundaries.

3. Aaaah – that’s what I come here for: calm, rational, thoughtful discussions 🙂

4. Firstly, the cops aren’t likely to be policing toilets, they’re firm supporters of the transgendered, not of biological women.

   Secondly, we used to have separate toilets for men and women, with cute little signpost designating them. No reason why this shouldn’t have continued – towns throughout New Zealand used to have appropriate pit stops, war memorials, and greasy cafes. No good reason to stop this, except for the greasy cafs.

   Thirdly, it’s not healthy, or desirable, for girls going all day without peeing, because they’re apprehensive about using the toilets with boys there.

   Fourthly, there is such a thing as natural modesty. This may be more of a female attribute but women aren’t the gender who pee communally, in rows, with competitions about how high they can go, or how quick the young guy gets started compared to grandad. Nor do blokes have to concern themselves with more intimate feminine hygiene issues.

   Fifthly, women have more reason to feel intimidated by persons with penises than they do by persons with vaginas.

   Sixthly, men don’t wash their hands. Sometimes they shake the drops off, and that’s about it. Women shouldn’t have to share personal areas with dirty people who spread germs.

   Seventhly, men are the big beer drinkers, and beer goes straight through and out again, pausing a bit to give them the tell-tale beer bellies which characterises heavy boozers. They need to clean up their act all round.

   Eighthly, just because Nicola Willis is relaxed about girls sharing girl spaces with males, does not mean that normal parents and grandparents have no misgivings about the implications which may escape Nicola.

   • “Secondly, we used to have separate toilets for men and women, with cute little signpost designating them.”
     From the image above…
     If you are wearing trousers, use the right door. If you are wearing a skirt, use the left door. Simple. Thanks for clearing that up Snow White.

     • Yep, its a universal, throughout Europe and Asia, don’t know about Africa.

       • Lucky that women never wear men’s clothes, so won’t get confused. 😉

         • Clothes don’t maketh the woman… but then again…

   • For a women you seem to know first hand what goes on in a men’s toilet block. Suggest you are absolutely wrong on points 4 to 7.

   • “Thirdly, it’s not healthy, or desirable, for girls going all day without peeing, because they’re apprehensive about using the toilets with boys there.”

     Isn’t it the other way around? It’s the boys who have to stand exposed in the common room where the urinals are. They’re the ones who should be terrified (if anybody at all needs to take this nonsense seriously). Girls generally get the privacy of a cubicle, unless I’ve been missing something.

     • You are missing something, the utter mortification of teenage girls and lower at having to do their business in proximity to boys. I imagine some boys dont like using urinals anyway for similar kinds of reason or bullying, If you havent been a young woman, you probably wont get how mortifying it is.

       • Fantail Correct. Even my mother-in- law felt this way, and she was by no means a young girl. These men are simply clodhopper chauvinistic bullies who should be ashamed of themselves.

   • No good reason to stop this, except for the greasy cafs.……Ah Snow White I take it you’re not a fan of chowing down on a 2 day old mince and cheese pie and egg sandwich with the aromatic smell of stale cigarette smoke wafting in through the windows of that quintessential kiwi small town eating establishment.

     • As an ex-smoker, I rather enjoy the smell of other people’s cigs. I’ve been known to follow in the wake of tobacco wafting softly back towards me, sniffing appreciatively in total awe at them that can afford to buy them. Old pies are ok, I prefer my own egg sandwiches, curried, fish’n’chips is soul food, but old fat smells lousy, and badly wrapped greasies can ruin perfectly good clothes as, alas, has happened, but all are still better than pc pizza. Sausage rolls are ok too, but Chris Bishop’s hungry dad drives all over the place trying to snaffle them and he’s bigger than me. End of.

5. Fuck me, this is ridiculous the debate about toilets.

   Lets keep the disabled toilet as unisex for anybody that is trans or gender unsure and for the rest old fashioned Men and Woman. Especially places where people change their clothes.

   I feel that much of the fringe inclusion debate seems to require massive amount of carbon emission hungry building and throwing away of perfectly good money. Not to mention all the legal issues.

   Has anyone seen the state of most public toilets? Lets get them all looking better and cleaner and concentrate on the essentials, which is having a place the majority of men and woman can change in safely and use.

   We already have unisex toilets everywhere called disabled toilets. Lets just rebrand disabled to unisex and gender unspecific toilets for those easily triggered. It can also be te reo.

   Woman with penises should not be changing with woman without penises for the safety of woman without penises. They can use disabled (rebranded for those easily triggered) toilets.

   Much more environmentally friendly and can stop the growing legal action around this debate for unsafe woman whose rights are being railroaded and triggered trans groups. There, they all have their separate spaces. Phew!

   Labeen push through 3 now 10 waters under urgency, but can’t protect woman from men with penises invading their changing rooms and toilets, if they self ID as wanting to.

   Look at the constant headlines, woman are not safe from Men in NZ. They are targets and they should be protected because everyday they are attacked, sexually assaulted and murdered from men.

   Pretending that a man is now a woman under law now on their say so, is lunacy for reporting.

   Victims still get nothing and actually things seem to be getting worse in 2023 for woman’s rights.

   • It’s all part of the wider genderID ideology/ scenarios now featuring in the New Zealand education curriculum, with little boys being taught that having a penis doesn’t mean that they’re a male and so on. I think that Peters has addressed the sexualisation of school children, as distinct from sex education.

6. Just as Luxon indicated, this is not really a thing in NZ. As far as I can tell anyway.
   All the new municipal facilities around Auckland are single cell toilets which anyone can access. I suppose the beach changing rooms might be remotely an issue, but really??

   As for trans people, I’ve never met one.

   My thinking is that Peters is tapping into imported US and UK outrage over the bonkers stuff that is going on over there. The UK has had to close the Tavistock Clinic and I think similar action taking place in the US over the mutilation of minors based literally on the whim of a child. We don’t have that here.

   • We don’t have that here? Are you joking? We get every stupid trend America gets! There are YouTube vids of kiwi girls (not adults) describing their transition as “catastrophic” and clearly stating that she felt bullied and none of the right questions were asked.
     We have that here.

     • Talk to kiwi school teachers, they have students transitioning back and forth and the teachers have to go along with it, it is narcissistic cultism, a quasi religion to fill the gap left in the heart now that true faith is being determinedly nailed into it’s coffin.

     • I must have missed those because I’m not a tick-tocker.

     • Every stupid trend, happens to be the ridiculous paranoia that comes out of that god bothering freak show called middle America. It’s that same paranoia that gave you Richard Ellis.

   • Andrew. “ As for trans people, I’ve never met one.” Is that right ? I worked with a transgender colleague for months without knowing that she was trans. We lunched together, talked clothes and everyday stuff without gender ever entering into the picture. Normal as you and me. They are not all tedious exhibitionists, nor want to be. Two I’ve known since are self-obsessed parakeets, but not my classy colleague.

     • I’m a retired engineer, LOL: The least likely career to involve mixing with the fringes of society.

       • Andrew. Ah. I had a Swedish neighbour in London, Barbro, lovely lady engineer who couldn’t get a job in her profession in the UK, so she worked as a fashion buyer. Painted everything in her apartment white, including the television set; inventive thinkers, engineers, except for that one in Nelson who I certainly wouldn’t want in my loo.

   • This is a hot button woman’s rights issue (amongst other related ones) for many NZ women and quite a few men. Both Chippie and Luxon are avoiding it because they know how strongly people feel on the issue and there is no vote upside to it.

7. Generally, it’s not necessary to see people naked to tell who are women and who are men. The whole skeleto-muscular structure is different for males & females.

   Humans are generally pretty good at identifying people’s sex when fully clothed, Research shows women tend to be better at it than men – probably an evolved safety mechanism.

   Men have wider shoulders and narrower hips, stronger, less flexible muscle tendons, and they have a more pronounced eyebrow ridge and jaw line. The shape of male & female feet differ (wider near the toes and narrower at the ankle for women). The 2 sexes walk and talk differently. Women’s bodies are more flexible and less stable than men’s because of the tendons, etc. So women’s hips tend to swing a bit when we walk, unlike men’s.

   Basically, single sex changing rooms and toilets have operated by social consensus/contract, without he need of much policing. This has worked pretty well. Transactivists have been trying to break down that consensus and tell us not to trust our more instinctive perception of who is male or female. The earlier transsexuals (M_to_F) who were a smaller number than the currently self IDing males, aimed to blend in and be non-intrusive in such spaces. Some of the current self IDed transwomen are different – more exhibitionist and entitled.

   It depends on the public toilet space as to how safe they are for women – small enclosed spaces (eg for the space outside cubicles) may not be safe for women, especially if not used a lot and men feel entitled to enter.

   Changing rooms and other intimate spaces are another matter. Save Women’s Sports NZ say they have been contacted by women reporting men being naked in a few women’s changing rooms in NZ – so it is an issue here.

   Also, many sports need to be sex segregated to enable fair competition for women. Women receiving any kind of intimate care (eg disabled women) or health care should be able to request they are cared for by biological women only.

   We need accurate statistics that compare the situation for females compared with males for employment/unemployment, the SEX pay gap, various medical conditions, etc. Currently Stats NZ are recording the ‘gender pay gap’ that includes males self-IDing into the women’s category. And it would be helpful to collect accurate and reliable stats on the extent of discrimination and/or inequality for gender IDed people rather than just incorporating them into stats according to their self ID.

8. Most of the posters on here want transgender people scrubbed from the face of the earth, so youre in a minority here.

   • If you want recognition and acceptance then advocate for a third category in sport, in bathrooms and language. You will not be accepted hijacking, appropriating and mocking women.
     It took women decades to fight their corner and earn their rights. They did not do so only to be usurped by a bunch of johnny come lately, selfish, faddish imposters screeching to be accepted without doing the hard yards.

     • Oh and by the way, What’s with the Koala?

     • As opposed to god bothering Christians like you who think that women should just bear children and be beaten by their husbands. Why dont you admit that you are a reactionary Christian who wants everyone to live according to the Old Testament.

       And the Koala is my profile pic over all the Web. FB, YouTube, Google. I like it.

       • Yeah I like it too.
         I’ve been an atheist for at least 50 years you knob.

     • Jack They also score the lucrative sports scholarships and prizes when they win competing against biological women, and that’s pretty damn mean.

     • Trans women are women and trans men are men, get used to it!

       • And the failure rate for gender reassignment surgery is 100%

   • Keep on trolling Millsy, you might convert the odd person if you keep at it.

9. Dunny politics my how we as country are sinking.

10. Well these guys loiter round male toilets. Now they want to loiter round female toilets. Given half a chance they’ll loiter round primary school toilets.

    But yeah Toliet Cop sounds a bit too Iranian Morality Police!

11. How did we get onto this subject anyway?

    • The Comeback Kid did it!

12. Picture an ossifer hanging about maintaining nosiness and order just as outside Min of Social Deterioration. I ask innocently, if I am allowed to walk past the door, or is there an invisible line to go round – a sort of ‘tear across the dotted line’!

    Toilet police would be an excellent job for twisted ‘sisters’ they would have the superior build to stand up against the normal smaller females. Also they could pick up mannerisms to use effectively in acting out their parts, and watch for peculiarities that feed their distaste leading to playing this insulting hoax and deception on females to gain power over the (insert animal name or slang, obscenity or offensive word used to demean females).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second-wave_feminism
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-wave_feminism
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth-wave_feminism

13. Does Winnie not realized his position would force masculine trans men (who can have penises btw) to use the women’s toilet?
    So much for protecting women…

14. Does Winnie not realized his policy would force masculine trans men (who can have penises btw) to use the women’s toilet?
    How about we just make all toilets gender neutral cubicals if this is really a big issues…

15. Can read the headlines now:
    ‘Balance of power in NZ election rests on toilet access’. But oh the missed nuances for the uninformed!

16. This is the dumbest thread i have ever read.

    • I’m now glad my post was censored.

17. If someone is old enough to use the toilet alone, they have the knowledge and cognitive ability to use the one relating to their sex.

    If not, their accompanying adult can guide them to do the same

18. Grow up people… MB, describing violence
    like that, even in jest, is stupid.

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