When the West use cluster bombs it’s for democracy and freedom!
US to give Ukraine cluster bombs, defends controversial decision
The Biden administration will provide cluster munitions to Ukraine, national security adviser Jake Sullivan said, vowing the US will not leave Ukraine defenceless and asserting that Kyiv has promised to use the controversial bombs carefully.
The immorality of what we in the West have just agreed to here, to allow cluster bombs to be used in conflict so as to maintain the political support for Ukraine’s resistance to Russia’s illegal war is ugly, nasty and cheap.
Rather than supply Ukraine with the real weapon muscle to finish the job, we are agreeing to the cheapest most insidious model because US Taxpayer’s matter more than one legged Ukrainians.
When you are forced to use immoral tactics to win, can you ever win?
The hypocrisy of the West sanctioning this means we have no moral high ground in this conflict any longer.
It is clear America will fight Russia until the last Ukrainian. Is this really about protecting the Ukraine now or destabilising Russia?
The only clear winner is the Military Industrial Complex and American Hawks.
Chippy’s recent speech on NZs foreign affairs was a rare moment of recognition there are other things beyond these shores.
We face geopolitical shockwaves unlike any before them.
Climate change, pandemics, refugees, war – they are all coming here.
Our distance is no longer a tyranny, it’s a blessing.
An Independent Foreign Policy is not enough to protect us from the shocks coming.
If we are serious about an Independent Foreign Policy, we have to accept Neutrality is going to cost us a lot more.
The Māori Party suggestion of neutrality is worth considering.
I believe that the climate crisis means we need a vastly larger military to cope with civil disasters and if we are attempting to distance ourselves from China and America, we need to make a decision to dramatically lift what we spend on the military for purely defensive and civil disaster capacity.
How would we go about defending the realm of NZ and all our economic exclusive zone?
We can’t pull away from America and China and pretend there is no cost to being Independent.
We need to increase Military GDP spending to 5%. Interestingly Labour have quietly ratcheted GDP military spending from just over 1% to just under 2%.
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“But one thing we did learn [from the Persian Gulf War] is that we can use our military in the region… and the Soviets won’t stop us. And we’ve got about 5 or 10 years to clean up those old [pro] Soviet regimes — Syria, Iran, Iraq [etc.] — before the next great superpower comes on to challenge us.”
— Paul Wolfowitz, fmr. Deputy Secretary of Defense, in 1991
“America is now the only global superpower, and Eurasia is the globe’s central arena… it is imperative that no Eurasian challenger emerges, capable of dominating Eurasia and thus of challenging America…
A power that dominated Eurasia would exercise decisive influence over two of the world’s three most economically productive regions, Western Europe and East Asia. A glance at the map also suggests that a country dominant in Eurasia would almost automatically control the Middle East and Africa…
Ukraine, a new and important space on the Eurasian chessboard, is a geopolitical pivot because its very existence as an independent country helps to transform Russia. Without Ukraine, Russia ceases to be a Eurasian empire… Russia’s first priority should be to [break up their country into] European Russia, a Siberian Republic, and a Far Eastern Republic… rather than to engage in a futile effort to regain its status as a global power…
What happens with the distribution of power on the Eurasian landmass will be of decisive importance to America’s global primacy… no state is likely to match the United States in the four key dimensions of power… preventing the emergence of a hostile coalition that could challenge America’s primacy…”
— Zbigniew Brzezinski, 9th U.S. National Security Advisor, in 1997.
Nice read.
Nobody has ever un-invented a weapon. If there is a tactical advantage in its use, ultimately it will be used. The Russians have already used banned white phosphorus in this war, so as far as I’m concerned, if cluster munitions helps Ukraine, then fine.
The thing I like about skirmish forces going ahead of the main army is you use it to stop an enemy from forming up but that’s not what happened in Ukraine. After apparently getting thier ass kicked, for the last three years Russia has been able to create defence in depth. Seven Hundred Thousand Russian Military Personal and a media who forgets how effective the Russians were in Syria. Long Range Russian missiles and artillery are very effective let’s not get it fucked up here who actually has tactical superiority.
After 2, 3 years Ukrainian Tactics are carput. In 3 to seven years we lose strategic superiority. There is nothing decisive about this war. Still can’t invade Russia with Russian Infantry and Artillery on its border. What a bunch of rank fucking amateurs playing at fucking war. Only people we have that could end this war is Tulsi, Robert F Kennedy. And God help us Trump vs a bunch of western uni grades who have lived far to good to be bad.
Democracy and freedom always has costs, and there are no rules except you must win.
Ukraine used cluster bombs on it’s own citizens starting 2014. Now these people have voted to join Russia and live in peace.
Spot on and the linking of Indo-Pacific to NATO is very calculated. The tragedy in Ukraine is the lack of appetite for a ceasefire and negotiation that is coming entirely from the US and NATO even despite what Ukraine wants. By the US making complete Russian withdrawal the pre-condition for any ceasefire what they are really saying is they do want to war to continue and don’t care about Ukrainian lives. The way ceasefires work is that everyone stops where they are now and tries to negotiate a permanent end to the war. It might not work out, but it is always worth trying. As Putin showed to the Sth African delegation a couple of weeks ago, an agreement had been struck back in March last year between the Ukrainians and Russians but that clown Boris Johnson was sent over to tell Zelensky that the West would not accept it. That proved that Ukraine has no independent power and that this is proxy war.
Considering the Russians are willing to cause massive environmental destruction by blowing up dams, or threaten to blow up nuclear power stations. That and threats every other week of the use of nuclear weapons, they, or any other party don’t have any validation to protest over the use of cluster weapons. Particularly when it is only to extract the invaders of your own sovereign country.
Ukrainian children will pay the price, you armchair generals are safe.
You are so vocal and smart about wars because you have never experienced any.
What does it say about the Left when an ‘elder’ call for an insane level increase in military spending. Makes you wonder, huh, why the Left is what it is today….
There’s no evidence that Russia has used cluster bombs against the Zelensky regime, given the lies of that perfidious dictator. I hope that one of the brothers of the little Russian and Ukranian kids that the Zelensky regime will use these weapons against delivers personal justice to Netanyahu, Victoria Nuland, Joe Biden and so on and so on down the chain of command.
It always amazes me how the Russians love to attack themselves. Nordstream gas pipelines, shell themselves while protecting a nuclear power plant, blow up a dam that supplies water to 6 nuclear power stations and the whole area of Crimea.
I guess the total destruction on Moscow must be on the cards. President Putin will likely light the fuse himself.
What amazes me is how many in this country and elsewhere actually believe this, it shows a total lack of free thinking, as you say. There is a legal principle (in Latin, of course) called cui bono – asking who benefits from the offence. And the answer is USA all the way.
Hey Chippy, I know you don’t speak for me on foreign policy or security, but when you get to your jamboree can you take Germany aside, sit them down and explain to them like a little child that they had their chance in the 1930s: they almost destroyed humanity with their bullshit. So Germany sending weapons and support to Ukraine now, or having anything to do with war around the world, is completely unacceptable. Forever.
It’s Ukrainian civilians at risk of the unexplored ordnance in this case and they want the munitions, is it better to let their women and children die to Russian missile strikes kamikaze drones, cluster munitions and white phosphorus instead?
Do Ukrainians not get to choose?
It’s not like they are going to be used beyond their own borders, what’s the big deal?
Certainly a good debate in reference to survival for Ukraine. To be fair even before cluster bombs killing at the start by any means in war is the issue. Tit for Tat in armaments maybe an unavoidable issue in war? Having rules in war can’t be comprehended by who is not involved? Looking from the outside it seems obvious but is it really?
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