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	Comments on: The Roast Busters actions shocked the nation, so what can we do about it?	</title>
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	<link>https://thedailyblog.co.nz/the-roast-busters-actions-shocked-the-nation-so-what-can-we-do-about-it/</link>
	<description>Read the Other Side of the Story</description>
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		By: &#8220;I got an apology&#8221;&#8230; said no survivor of rape or gendered violence ever &#171; The Daily Blog		</title>
		<link>https://thedailyblog.co.nz/the-roast-busters-actions-shocked-the-nation-so-what-can-we-do-about-it/#comment-2717</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[&#8220;I got an apology&#8221;&#8230; said no survivor of rape or gendered violence ever &#171; The Daily Blog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jul 2014 20:15:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thedailyblog.co.nz/?p=48244#comment-2717</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] context of New Zealand culture. This is something we desperately need. I called for exactly this when I recently wrote on the toxic masculinity displayed by the gang rapists known as The Roast Busters. Men who rape and [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] context of New Zealand culture. This is something we desperately need. I called for exactly this when I recently wrote on the toxic masculinity displayed by the gang rapists known as The Roast Busters. Men who rape and [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: reason		</title>
		<link>https://thedailyblog.co.nz/the-roast-busters-actions-shocked-the-nation-so-what-can-we-do-about-it/#comment-2716</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[reason]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2014 10:22:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thedailyblog.co.nz/?p=48244#comment-2716</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The police did drop the ball on this .................. over and over.

They are also hampered by the present adversarial justice system which works especially poorly  for sex crimes.

I think abuse of power is firmly entrenched in New Zealand culture from parliament down and certainly including the police force and &#039;justice&#039; system.

Making a stand against abuse of power in all its forms is whats needed.

A lot of vested interests ( those holding and abusing the power ), to overcome though.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The police did drop the ball on this &#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230; over and over.</p>
<p>They are also hampered by the present adversarial justice system which works especially poorly  for sex crimes.</p>
<p>I think abuse of power is firmly entrenched in New Zealand culture from parliament down and certainly including the police force and &#8216;justice&#8217; system.</p>
<p>Making a stand against abuse of power in all its forms is whats needed.</p>
<p>A lot of vested interests ( those holding and abusing the power ), to overcome though.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mistery		</title>
		<link>https://thedailyblog.co.nz/the-roast-busters-actions-shocked-the-nation-so-what-can-we-do-about-it/#comment-2715</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mistery]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2014 07:55:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thedailyblog.co.nz/?p=48244#comment-2715</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://thedailyblog.co.nz/the-roast-busters-actions-shocked-the-nation-so-what-can-we-do-about-it/#comment-2711&quot;&gt;Lara&lt;/a&gt;.

Lara.

There is absolutely nothing patronising in my comments.

They are simply stating the reality of the facts without the PC window-dressing.

Perhaps this article should have come with a &quot;trigger warning&quot;.

The negative votes to my posts here on this topic merely point to reality that most people cannot cope with the reality and factual account of rapes - and this is why nothing is ever done about it.

The situation has now become so serious and prevalent in our NZ culture, and this, I believe, is because of the window-dressing it has received over the years - to the point where it is usually no longer even referred to as rape, but rather given new user friendly monikers like: child molesting, sexual assault etc.

Just not good enough to get the job done - obviously.

Opinion.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://thedailyblog.co.nz/the-roast-busters-actions-shocked-the-nation-so-what-can-we-do-about-it/#comment-2711">Lara</a>.</p>
<p>Lara.</p>
<p>There is absolutely nothing patronising in my comments.</p>
<p>They are simply stating the reality of the facts without the PC window-dressing.</p>
<p>Perhaps this article should have come with a &#8220;trigger warning&#8221;.</p>
<p>The negative votes to my posts here on this topic merely point to reality that most people cannot cope with the reality and factual account of rapes &#8211; and this is why nothing is ever done about it.</p>
<p>The situation has now become so serious and prevalent in our NZ culture, and this, I believe, is because of the window-dressing it has received over the years &#8211; to the point where it is usually no longer even referred to as rape, but rather given new user friendly monikers like: child molesting, sexual assault etc.</p>
<p>Just not good enough to get the job done &#8211; obviously.</p>
<p>Opinion.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Z		</title>
		<link>https://thedailyblog.co.nz/the-roast-busters-actions-shocked-the-nation-so-what-can-we-do-about-it/#comment-2714</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Z]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2014 01:44:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thedailyblog.co.nz/?p=48244#comment-2714</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://thedailyblog.co.nz/the-roast-busters-actions-shocked-the-nation-so-what-can-we-do-about-it/#comment-2709&quot;&gt;Sancho&lt;/a&gt;.

Thanks for having the courage to discuss this.  
Many of us act without thinking - I did the same to a male and I would call what I did rape. 

It happened because I was convinced that sex was what all men wanted.  I didn&#039;t think nor understand about consent.  I needed lessons!

I hope if he said something he&#039;d be taken seriously but I know it isn&#039;t likely.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://thedailyblog.co.nz/the-roast-busters-actions-shocked-the-nation-so-what-can-we-do-about-it/#comment-2709">Sancho</a>.</p>
<p>Thanks for having the courage to discuss this.<br />
Many of us act without thinking &#8211; I did the same to a male and I would call what I did rape. </p>
<p>It happened because I was convinced that sex was what all men wanted.  I didn&#8217;t think nor understand about consent.  I needed lessons!</p>
<p>I hope if he said something he&#8217;d be taken seriously but I know it isn&#8217;t likely.</p>
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		<title>
		By: jane		</title>
		<link>https://thedailyblog.co.nz/the-roast-busters-actions-shocked-the-nation-so-what-can-we-do-about-it/#comment-2713</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jane]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2014 19:42:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thedailyblog.co.nz/?p=48244#comment-2713</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://thedailyblog.co.nz/the-greens-politics-of-fear/#comment-226935&quot;&gt;James+Brown&lt;/a&gt;.

It is easy enough to criticise the police, considering the amount of things they have to handle, victims of crimes can be hard to understand  if they have been traumatised.  
One thing that strikes me is that when the police ask you, &quot;what were you wearing?&quot;,  that it is not necessarily an inference that you were inappropriately dressed but because certain items of clothing, colours, footwear, whatever, may stick in someone&#039;s memory as an identifier, perhaps better than a purely physical description of an abductee or victim.  The other thing is that many people will not have any memory of a sexual assault per se because they will have been drugged with the sort of pharmaceutical which, when administered on the sly, completely obliterates memories but does not necessarily show up in a toxicology report.  In our society we permissively adore alcohol and condone the wholesale use of pharmaceuticals and genetically enhanced weed.  To imagine that this does not affect our young people in awful ways is erroneous at best.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://thedailyblog.co.nz/the-greens-politics-of-fear/#comment-226935">James+Brown</a>.</p>
<p>It is easy enough to criticise the police, considering the amount of things they have to handle, victims of crimes can be hard to understand  if they have been traumatised.<br />
One thing that strikes me is that when the police ask you, &#8220;what were you wearing?&#8221;,  that it is not necessarily an inference that you were inappropriately dressed but because certain items of clothing, colours, footwear, whatever, may stick in someone&#8217;s memory as an identifier, perhaps better than a purely physical description of an abductee or victim.  The other thing is that many people will not have any memory of a sexual assault per se because they will have been drugged with the sort of pharmaceutical which, when administered on the sly, completely obliterates memories but does not necessarily show up in a toxicology report.  In our society we permissively adore alcohol and condone the wholesale use of pharmaceuticals and genetically enhanced weed.  To imagine that this does not affect our young people in awful ways is erroneous at best.</p>
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		<title>
		By: jane		</title>
		<link>https://thedailyblog.co.nz/the-roast-busters-actions-shocked-the-nation-so-what-can-we-do-about-it/#comment-2712</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jane]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2014 19:23:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thedailyblog.co.nz/?p=48244#comment-2712</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://thedailyblog.co.nz/the-roast-busters-actions-shocked-the-nation-so-what-can-we-do-about-it/#comment-2702&quot;&gt;Cassie&lt;/a&gt;.

Good points Cassie, and good article Chloe, thank you. 
There is little doubt that the sort of treatment one receives when attempting to report rape is related to people, with or without the support of their families, actually not doing so.  
There are myriad media incitements to objectify women as nothing more than mere punching bags and worse.  For intelligent analysis watch Anita Sarkeesian&#039;s excellent videos about gaming behaviour, modelling and tropes at: 
http://www.feministfrequency.com]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://thedailyblog.co.nz/the-roast-busters-actions-shocked-the-nation-so-what-can-we-do-about-it/#comment-2702">Cassie</a>.</p>
<p>Good points Cassie, and good article Chloe, thank you.<br />
There is little doubt that the sort of treatment one receives when attempting to report rape is related to people, with or without the support of their families, actually not doing so.<br />
There are myriad media incitements to objectify women as nothing more than mere punching bags and worse.  For intelligent analysis watch Anita Sarkeesian&#8217;s excellent videos about gaming behaviour, modelling and tropes at:<br />
<a href="http://www.feministfrequency.com" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.feministfrequency.com</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Lara		</title>
		<link>https://thedailyblog.co.nz/the-roast-busters-actions-shocked-the-nation-so-what-can-we-do-about-it/#comment-2711</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lara]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2014 07:47:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thedailyblog.co.nz/?p=48244#comment-2711</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://thedailyblog.co.nz/the-roast-busters-actions-shocked-the-nation-so-what-can-we-do-about-it/#comment-2705&quot;&gt;Mistery&lt;/a&gt;.

Your choice of words is most unfortunate. Your tone comes across as condescending and patronising.

I am in my 40&#039;s. I have experienced the whole continuum of harassment to rape, and so I am unfortunately rather well informed and experienced to discuss this. Do not patronise me.

Innocent until proven guilty is an important aspect of a civilised society. If you cannot think this through and maintain that the opposite, guilty until proven innocent, would work in cases of rape, then I have nothing further to say to you.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://thedailyblog.co.nz/the-roast-busters-actions-shocked-the-nation-so-what-can-we-do-about-it/#comment-2705">Mistery</a>.</p>
<p>Your choice of words is most unfortunate. Your tone comes across as condescending and patronising.</p>
<p>I am in my 40&#8217;s. I have experienced the whole continuum of harassment to rape, and so I am unfortunately rather well informed and experienced to discuss this. Do not patronise me.</p>
<p>Innocent until proven guilty is an important aspect of a civilised society. If you cannot think this through and maintain that the opposite, guilty until proven innocent, would work in cases of rape, then I have nothing further to say to you.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Chloe King		</title>
		<link>https://thedailyblog.co.nz/the-roast-busters-actions-shocked-the-nation-so-what-can-we-do-about-it/#comment-2710</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chloe King]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2014 03:31:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thedailyblog.co.nz/?p=48244#comment-2710</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://thedailyblog.co.nz/the-roast-busters-actions-shocked-the-nation-so-what-can-we-do-about-it/#comment-2709&quot;&gt;Sancho&lt;/a&gt;.

Well it sounds like sexual coercion at the very least, if you pressure anyone into having sex then it is coercing them into an a sexual act they did not want to do. 

I have a boyfriend and sometimes he does not want to have sex with me and I sometimes do not want to have sex with him, I only EVER ask once I never EVER ask a 2nd time because, simply, if he said yes I would have pressured him into it. Plus having sex with someone who does not want to at that moment, is a turn off for me. 

The fact you are worried about your own sexual behavor says alot. You probably need to think long and hard with how you interact with your sexual partner/s. It sounds like you really need to make some changes. 

&quot;I also fear this is a reason why we find it hard to acknowledge this “blame the victim” mentality, because it means we have to assess our own sexual histories.&quot;

Well said, and yes that is one of the reasons why we live in a culture that endlessly blames victims of rape and questions their actions and not the person who committed the violence.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://thedailyblog.co.nz/the-roast-busters-actions-shocked-the-nation-so-what-can-we-do-about-it/#comment-2709">Sancho</a>.</p>
<p>Well it sounds like sexual coercion at the very least, if you pressure anyone into having sex then it is coercing them into an a sexual act they did not want to do. </p>
<p>I have a boyfriend and sometimes he does not want to have sex with me and I sometimes do not want to have sex with him, I only EVER ask once I never EVER ask a 2nd time because, simply, if he said yes I would have pressured him into it. Plus having sex with someone who does not want to at that moment, is a turn off for me. </p>
<p>The fact you are worried about your own sexual behavor says alot. You probably need to think long and hard with how you interact with your sexual partner/s. It sounds like you really need to make some changes. </p>
<p>&#8220;I also fear this is a reason why we find it hard to acknowledge this “blame the victim” mentality, because it means we have to assess our own sexual histories.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well said, and yes that is one of the reasons why we live in a culture that endlessly blames victims of rape and questions their actions and not the person who committed the violence.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Sancho		</title>
		<link>https://thedailyblog.co.nz/the-roast-busters-actions-shocked-the-nation-so-what-can-we-do-about-it/#comment-2709</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sancho]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2014 00:56:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thedailyblog.co.nz/?p=48244#comment-2709</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://thedailyblog.co.nz/the-roast-busters-actions-shocked-the-nation-so-what-can-we-do-about-it/#comment-2699&quot;&gt;Lara&lt;/a&gt;.

I need to ask a question.
I lost my virginity to a girl when I was 15. She was younger than me, but we were in 4th form together. She was my girlfriend and I guess I pressured her into doing it. It definitley wasn&#039;t something she was keen to do at the time (it was her first time too) but she said &quot;yes&quot; and we did it. I&#039;m unsure if she was old enough to give informed consent, hell, I don&#039;t even know if I was old enough to do that. We remained a couple for a while after that. Anyway , my question is- Did I rape her?
I dare not try to contact her for fear of hearing an answer I don&#039;t wish to know.
I also fear this is a reason why we find it hard to acknowledge this &quot;blame the victim&quot; mentality, because it means we have to assess our own sexual histories. The drunken one night stands I barely remember... did I rape them too? Or did they rape me? I once woke at a party to find a woman fondling my genitals. I was in a relationship with another woman at the time. I don&#039;t know if I was in a drunken stupour and initiated the contact, or did this woman sexually molest a passed out man? Thankfully I was clear enough to remove myself from the situation.
It&#039;s these kinds of questions which scare me. I don&#039;t want to learn that I was a sexual deviant. Or that I am still one! I have been married for 13 years now and have 2 wonderful children. But even my own sexual history with my wife could throw up some questions. I&#039;m sure there have been plenty of times when I have wanted sex and she has just done it for my own selfish sake. Have I raped her? I once woke her by perfoming oral sex on her, is that considered rape? We had sex, but I initiated it without her consent.
I apologise if this has become a bit graphic, but I am struggling with drawing a line and understanding where it can be crossed. I think this is what a lot of people will battle with when considering this discussion.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://thedailyblog.co.nz/the-roast-busters-actions-shocked-the-nation-so-what-can-we-do-about-it/#comment-2699">Lara</a>.</p>
<p>I need to ask a question.<br />
I lost my virginity to a girl when I was 15. She was younger than me, but we were in 4th form together. She was my girlfriend and I guess I pressured her into doing it. It definitley wasn&#8217;t something she was keen to do at the time (it was her first time too) but she said &#8220;yes&#8221; and we did it. I&#8217;m unsure if she was old enough to give informed consent, hell, I don&#8217;t even know if I was old enough to do that. We remained a couple for a while after that. Anyway , my question is- Did I rape her?<br />
I dare not try to contact her for fear of hearing an answer I don&#8217;t wish to know.<br />
I also fear this is a reason why we find it hard to acknowledge this &#8220;blame the victim&#8221; mentality, because it means we have to assess our own sexual histories. The drunken one night stands I barely remember&#8230; did I rape them too? Or did they rape me? I once woke at a party to find a woman fondling my genitals. I was in a relationship with another woman at the time. I don&#8217;t know if I was in a drunken stupour and initiated the contact, or did this woman sexually molest a passed out man? Thankfully I was clear enough to remove myself from the situation.<br />
It&#8217;s these kinds of questions which scare me. I don&#8217;t want to learn that I was a sexual deviant. Or that I am still one! I have been married for 13 years now and have 2 wonderful children. But even my own sexual history with my wife could throw up some questions. I&#8217;m sure there have been plenty of times when I have wanted sex and she has just done it for my own selfish sake. Have I raped her? I once woke her by perfoming oral sex on her, is that considered rape? We had sex, but I initiated it without her consent.<br />
I apologise if this has become a bit graphic, but I am struggling with drawing a line and understanding where it can be crossed. I think this is what a lot of people will battle with when considering this discussion.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mistery		</title>
		<link>https://thedailyblog.co.nz/the-roast-busters-actions-shocked-the-nation-so-what-can-we-do-about-it/#comment-2708</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mistery]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2014 00:38:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thedailyblog.co.nz/?p=48244#comment-2708</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://thedailyblog.co.nz/the-roast-busters-actions-shocked-the-nation-so-what-can-we-do-about-it/#comment-2707&quot;&gt;Chloe King&lt;/a&gt;.

Yes. I agree, my language is totaling. And it needs to be.
Too much PC going on here about rape, and rape needs to be taken right out of the PC closet it has become buried in.

It needs to be brought out into the light of reality, so it can be dealt with. Hence my words. And likely hence this article in the first place.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://thedailyblog.co.nz/the-roast-busters-actions-shocked-the-nation-so-what-can-we-do-about-it/#comment-2707">Chloe King</a>.</p>
<p>Yes. I agree, my language is totaling. And it needs to be.<br />
Too much PC going on here about rape, and rape needs to be taken right out of the PC closet it has become buried in.</p>
<p>It needs to be brought out into the light of reality, so it can be dealt with. Hence my words. And likely hence this article in the first place.</p>
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