Comments on: How to combat Islamophobia and white supremacy

By: Brewer

Brewer — Sun, 24 Mar 2019 00:32:07 +0000

Raymond Ibrahim is a director of the Middle East Forum, an American Zionist think tank founded in 1990 by Daniel Pipes. This group has been placed on the Hate Watch list by the Southern Poverty Law Center for financing a rally in London in support of English far-right provocateur Tommy Robinson. The MEF also bankrolled Arizona Congressman Paul Gosar’s trip to the U.K. to attend the rally for Robinson. I think we can reasonably infer Ibrahim’s mind-set.
The debate between he and Michael Ryan is one of interpretation. Interpretation is highly influenced by one’s mind-set.
Exactly the same negative conclusions about Christianity can be drawn from the Bible and sayings of certain Christian leaders if one brings such a mind-set. They would be of similar accuracy when compared with the majority of Christian practice.
If your “study of Islam” is informed by such “teachers” I fully understand why we are at odds on this topic.
I prefer to read the actual History of Islam’s relations with other religions and peoples and draw my own conclusions.
One of those conclusions is that Christians and Judaics would not have survived centuries of residence among Moslems if half of what these fellows say were true – in fact I doubt Islam itself could survive.

By: Sam

Sam — Sat, 23 Mar 2019 23:49:01 +0000

Sorry. Can’t help you. You’ve spun yourself so hard you’re confused.

By: Brewer

Brewer — Sat, 23 Mar 2019 23:39:09 +0000

On the surface, you make some good points but where the error becomes obvious is in these phrases:
“Muslims don’t…” and “Every Muslim country”.
This requires a leap from the particular to the general.
One might just as well assert that the practices of the Jim Jones cult or Snake Handlers typify Christianity.
The first video does not support your case. Among the first words spoken by the interviewer are : “you asked for a copy of the Koran Terry, is that right?”
This would seem to align with my interpretation of Dawa – perfectly permissible when the acolyte exhibits an interest or asks for information.
In my view, handing out leaflets at a bus stop would probably not be considered proper by the vast majority of Moslems but that would not preclude such behavior by an individual group – just as some sects within Christianity are at odds with the mainstream on that issue.
There is also a possibility that those pamphleteers are not proselytizing, that the pamphlets are designed simply to explain Islam, to counter the widespread misconceptions. That would be Dawa but not proselytizing as such.
So how numerous are those nations where Sharia plays a bigger role in Government that, say Canon or Judaic law?
According to this map, sharia plays no role in the judicial system of the majority. The second largest group is where sharia applies in personal status issues (such as marriage, divorce, inheritance, and child custody) – rather like Canon Law in Christian countries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Application_of_Islamic_law_by_country#/media/File:Use_of_Sharia_by_country.svg
When we look at those that do incorporate Sharia to a great extent we find they are predominantly Salafist or Wahabist. This is a minority sect that is considered un-Islamic by the majority. In Saudi Arabia’s case, its relatively recent emergence can be traced to when when Mohammad bin Saud, the chieftain of a local tribe formed a pact with an Islamic fundamentalist in order to consolidate power. In this he was backed by Western powers in order to undermine the Ottomans.. This video by Adam Curtis is instructive:
https://youtu.be/VRbq63r7rys

By: Frank Macskasy

Frank Macskasy — Sat, 23 Mar 2019 07:52:33 +0000

Andy, you’re aware of Roman Catholic priests abusing children?

Do you think those paedophile priests define the entire Catholic faith?

Now, do you think that the actions of radicalised Islmamists – reacting against Western imperialist intervention throughout their countries – reflects on muslims throughout the world?

Have a thought for a moment on events in Germany post World War 1. Or in Cambodia post Vietnam War.

The common link? Societies stressed by major warfare, looking to extremist ideologues for answers. Western intervention in the middle east to protect oil interests have propped up dictators; over-thrown at least one democratic government; supported Israeli aggression, etc etc.

Do you wonder why there is a radical reaction against the West?

We’ve even seen a ‘watered down’ version in Britain and the US, with ‘Brexit” and Trump, respectively. Again, voters reacting against economic policies that have impacted negatively on their lives.

When societies are stressed by warfare or harsh economic events, people react irrationally.

The mistake is to label all people with the same reputation. Muslim New Zealanders have responded with the same tolerance, love, and humanity that non-Muslims have shown to them.

Imagine, for a moment, if the entire world conducted itself the same way.

By: Frank Macskasy

Frank Macskasy — Sat, 23 Mar 2019 07:42:28 +0000

Jason, just in case you haven’t been listening to radio, TV, or read newspapers, or talked to anyone in New Zealand – what are your thoughts on the cold blooded murder of fifty New Zealanders?

By: Frank Macskasy

Frank Macskasy — Sat, 23 Mar 2019 05:53:29 +0000

Jason, what is the point of your screeds of comments? Are you trying to make some quasi-intellectuallised point against Muslims?

If you are, this is wholly inappropriate.

By: Sam

Sam — Fri, 22 Mar 2019 02:56:20 +0000

(Apologies if this is a double up)

Well now you are back-pedalling. Muslims and Islam have been living in New Zealand comfortably for long enough. You haven’t said a single good argument about any of the other great monotheisms which just lacks reason and logic. Clearly you can’t handle the jandle and are leaving loopholes because your arguments are trash.

By: Sam

Sam — Fri, 22 Mar 2019 02:54:05 +0000

By: Brewer

Brewer — Fri, 22 Mar 2019 00:00:32 +0000

Both writers (Ibrahim and Karsh) are fully paid up Neo-Cons.
This from Jane’s Islamic Affairs Analyst:
“The recent article by Raymond Ibrahim is in this author’s opinion well-researched, factual in places but whose interpretation of taqiyya is ultimately misleading. It focuses on a very narrow use of the term taqiyya, which is sometimes used to refer to dissimulation allowed to Shias to preserve their own lives and the lives of others. It appears to be a polemical piece interspersed with cherry-picked citations from the Quran, the sayings of the Prophet and secondary works.”
Karsh is an ex-IDF officer, a member of Benidor Associates – the outfit that put it about that Irian Jewa have to wear yellow stars.
Neither are near the top of my large reading list.

By: Brewer

Brewer — Thu, 21 Mar 2019 23:43:00 +0000

@Jason.
It is, as I said, more nuanced.
Neither I nor anyone of my acquaintance has ever been door-knocked or enjoined to embrace the faith.
Dawa can be considered proselytizing only if setting an example, doing good works, creating charitable institutions is proselytizing.
I guess it comes down to two senses of the word – passive and active.
As with all belief systems, arguments focusing on texts etc can be misleading.The real test is how the doctrines are practiced in the real World. If anyone can provide examples of activity by Moslems that aligns with that of fundamentalist sects like Jehovah’s Witnesses, LDS etc. (minor sects within Islam excepted) I would be interested to see them.