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	Comments on: Driving Out The Money-Changers of Reactionary Christianity	</title>
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	<description>Read the Other Side of the Story</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2020 23:04:38 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Geoff Fischer		</title>
		<link>https://thedailyblog.co.nz/driving-out-the-money-changers-of-reactionary-christianity/#comment-148017</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Geoff Fischer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2020 23:04:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thedailyblog.co.nz/?p=131840#comment-148017</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://thedailyblog.co.nz/driving-out-the-money-changers-of-reactionary-christianity/#comment-148016&quot;&gt;Debsisdead&lt;/a&gt;.

Many Polynesians would rather give their money freely to their own church than have it extracted in the form of taxes by the colonial state.   That may upset left-wingers, but the left will just have to live with that reality until they can give Polynesians some good reasons to trust and love the colonial regime.   Which, frankly, will never happen.
The missionaries did not and could not impose their religion upon the iwi of Aotearoa.  The process of evangelisation was slow and protracted, and really only gained pace when Maori converts began evangelising among their own people.   I believe that the same broadly held true in other parts of Polynesia.
The civil power - the British imperial establishment - could theoretically have imposed Christianity on Maori, but never gave the slightest consideration to such an enterprise.  Since the mid-seventeenth century, despite the presence of an established church, the governing classes in Britain had endeavored to keep a safe distance state and church, proscribing far left religious tendencies (such as the Quakers) and discriminating against Catholics and Jews but otherwise allowing a modicum of religious freedom.   The British had learnt in the course of the Great Rebellion that religion is a double edged sword, which could neither be encouraged nor effectively suppressed without bringing the authority of the state into jeopardy.
So in Aotearoa colonisation and evangelisation proceeded separately albeit in parallel.   The colonial state was imposed by force of British imperial and Australian regiments, gunboats and artillery.   Christianity was introduced and disseminated by European missionaries and local converts.   The fact that when push came to shove many missionaries put allegiance to the Crown before loyalty to Christ was not lost on our people, and explains the rapid rise of indigenous churches and religious movements from about 1860 onwards.
My beef with Chris Trotter is that he is quite comfortable with and supportive of the colonial political regime which was imposed by force, while railing against the Christian religion which our people freely adopted and modified to their own needs through such channels as the Hahi Mihinare, Ringatu and Ratana churches.
He claims to be anti-colonialist, which he clearly is not, and his anti-religious tirade simply muddies the waters of the controversy over colonialism.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://thedailyblog.co.nz/driving-out-the-money-changers-of-reactionary-christianity/#comment-148016">Debsisdead</a>.</p>
<p>Many Polynesians would rather give their money freely to their own church than have it extracted in the form of taxes by the colonial state.   That may upset left-wingers, but the left will just have to live with that reality until they can give Polynesians some good reasons to trust and love the colonial regime.   Which, frankly, will never happen.<br />
The missionaries did not and could not impose their religion upon the iwi of Aotearoa.  The process of evangelisation was slow and protracted, and really only gained pace when Maori converts began evangelising among their own people.   I believe that the same broadly held true in other parts of Polynesia.<br />
The civil power &#8211; the British imperial establishment &#8211; could theoretically have imposed Christianity on Maori, but never gave the slightest consideration to such an enterprise.  Since the mid-seventeenth century, despite the presence of an established church, the governing classes in Britain had endeavored to keep a safe distance state and church, proscribing far left religious tendencies (such as the Quakers) and discriminating against Catholics and Jews but otherwise allowing a modicum of religious freedom.   The British had learnt in the course of the Great Rebellion that religion is a double edged sword, which could neither be encouraged nor effectively suppressed without bringing the authority of the state into jeopardy.<br />
So in Aotearoa colonisation and evangelisation proceeded separately albeit in parallel.   The colonial state was imposed by force of British imperial and Australian regiments, gunboats and artillery.   Christianity was introduced and disseminated by European missionaries and local converts.   The fact that when push came to shove many missionaries put allegiance to the Crown before loyalty to Christ was not lost on our people, and explains the rapid rise of indigenous churches and religious movements from about 1860 onwards.<br />
My beef with Chris Trotter is that he is quite comfortable with and supportive of the colonial political regime which was imposed by force, while railing against the Christian religion which our people freely adopted and modified to their own needs through such channels as the Hahi Mihinare, Ringatu and Ratana churches.<br />
He claims to be anti-colonialist, which he clearly is not, and his anti-religious tirade simply muddies the waters of the controversy over colonialism.</p>
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		By: Debsisdead		</title>
		<link>https://thedailyblog.co.nz/driving-out-the-money-changers-of-reactionary-christianity/#comment-148016</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Debsisdead]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2020 05:52:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thedailyblog.co.nz/?p=131840#comment-148016</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://thedailyblog.co.nz/driving-out-the-money-changers-of-reactionary-christianity/#comment-148004&quot;&gt;Geoff Fischer&lt;/a&gt;.

Tosh.  Read the contemporaneous accounts of the &#039;missionaries&#039; who foisted themselves on the people of Pacifica from around 1830 onwards and you&#039;ll discover these petty-minded puritans whipped traditional people for not dressing like victorian englanders.  They cut deals with one or two local leaders, ordained them and continued to ordain descendants making &#039;man of the cloth&#039; an hereditary position.
Those village leaders who did as these english &#038; german preachers wanted, soon had extraordinary power over other villages that were none of their damn business &#038; in doing so creating conflict where previously there had been none.
The aggressive tithing those original god botherers instituted continues to this day, stealing from the poor to give to &#039;the church&#039; ie the scum claiming they know what &#039;god&#039; wants.
Unfortunately this has meant that as Pacifica people emigrate to Aotearoa their sole community focus is not a village community center, it is a &#039;church&#039; usually in a low rent building where the villagers are harangued &#038; embarrassed in to handing over large chunks of change just for the right to meet up with their family &#038; friends.
Some friends in the local Pacifica community are well aware of this but are unable to right this awful wrong because of the stranglehold on power these xtians cling onto, including resorting to violence to ensure that their power isn&#039;t taken away from them as well as consorting with politicians who protect these charlatans on the understanding the preacher will get his congregation to vote for them.
This corrupt &#038; criminal yet no politician is interested in righting this wrong.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://thedailyblog.co.nz/driving-out-the-money-changers-of-reactionary-christianity/#comment-148004">Geoff Fischer</a>.</p>
<p>Tosh.  Read the contemporaneous accounts of the &#8216;missionaries&#8217; who foisted themselves on the people of Pacifica from around 1830 onwards and you&#8217;ll discover these petty-minded puritans whipped traditional people for not dressing like victorian englanders.  They cut deals with one or two local leaders, ordained them and continued to ordain descendants making &#8216;man of the cloth&#8217; an hereditary position.<br />
Those village leaders who did as these english &amp; german preachers wanted, soon had extraordinary power over other villages that were none of their damn business &amp; in doing so creating conflict where previously there had been none.<br />
The aggressive tithing those original god botherers instituted continues to this day, stealing from the poor to give to &#8216;the church&#8217; ie the scum claiming they know what &#8216;god&#8217; wants.<br />
Unfortunately this has meant that as Pacifica people emigrate to Aotearoa their sole community focus is not a village community center, it is a &#8216;church&#8217; usually in a low rent building where the villagers are harangued &amp; embarrassed in to handing over large chunks of change just for the right to meet up with their family &amp; friends.<br />
Some friends in the local Pacifica community are well aware of this but are unable to right this awful wrong because of the stranglehold on power these xtians cling onto, including resorting to violence to ensure that their power isn&#8217;t taken away from them as well as consorting with politicians who protect these charlatans on the understanding the preacher will get his congregation to vote for them.<br />
This corrupt &amp; criminal yet no politician is interested in righting this wrong.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mike		</title>
		<link>https://thedailyblog.co.nz/driving-out-the-money-changers-of-reactionary-christianity/#comment-148015</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Sep 2020 23:21:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thedailyblog.co.nz/?p=131840#comment-148015</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;The fat little pastors who strip their already poor congregations of what little spare cash is left to them and slip it to their own pockets. The petty tyrants who swathe their followers in ignorance and poison them with prejudice. The high-living preachers who rail against every manifestation of human happiness and pleasure. The ruthless commissars of a cruel and unforgiving dictator god.&quot;

Are you talking about these guys?

https://aucklandev.co.nz/
https://aucklandev.co.nz/about/health-and-safety/

Well, I would not be interested in having anything much to do with them, but are we not perhaps also getting a bit over the top misinformation through the media and so?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The fat little pastors who strip their already poor congregations of what little spare cash is left to them and slip it to their own pockets. The petty tyrants who swathe their followers in ignorance and poison them with prejudice. The high-living preachers who rail against every manifestation of human happiness and pleasure. The ruthless commissars of a cruel and unforgiving dictator god.&#8221;</p>
<p>Are you talking about these guys?</p>
<p><a href="https://aucklandev.co.nz/" rel="nofollow ugc">https://aucklandev.co.nz/</a><br />
<a href="https://aucklandev.co.nz/about/health-and-safety/" rel="nofollow ugc">https://aucklandev.co.nz/about/health-and-safety/</a></p>
<p>Well, I would not be interested in having anything much to do with them, but are we not perhaps also getting a bit over the top misinformation through the media and so?</p>
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		<title>
		By: saveNZ		</title>
		<link>https://thedailyblog.co.nz/driving-out-the-money-changers-of-reactionary-christianity/#comment-148014</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[saveNZ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Sep 2020 23:19:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thedailyblog.co.nz/?p=131840#comment-148014</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Good post, Chris.   and it is not just christianity that preys on it&#039;s worshippers. 

Charities are the new vehicles of the super rich and lobbyists. 

Sad that Greenpeace fights to keep charity status, while those charities that exploit and even sexually abuse children are protected financially. If criminal activity is found by church founders and leaders, the charity should be revoked and they need to reapply for charitable status.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good post, Chris.   and it is not just christianity that preys on it&#8217;s worshippers. </p>
<p>Charities are the new vehicles of the super rich and lobbyists. </p>
<p>Sad that Greenpeace fights to keep charity status, while those charities that exploit and even sexually abuse children are protected financially. If criminal activity is found by church founders and leaders, the charity should be revoked and they need to reapply for charitable status.</p>
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		By: millsy		</title>
		<link>https://thedailyblog.co.nz/driving-out-the-money-changers-of-reactionary-christianity/#comment-148013</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[millsy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Sep 2020 23:10:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thedailyblog.co.nz/?p=131840#comment-148013</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I know a woman who was confident, sexually liberated, socially liberal and independent minded. Then somehow she walked straight back into the religion she walked out of, and had a complete turn around with regards to her world view. In simple terms, she was like Mae West, now she is like Phyllis Schlafly.

Kinda depressing really.

I really think the left needs to start having the same attitudes to religion that the Spanich Republicans back in 1936, the Mexicans had in the 30&#039;s and 40&#039;s and the USSR had in the 1920&#039;s, 50&#039;s and 60&#039;s.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know a woman who was confident, sexually liberated, socially liberal and independent minded. Then somehow she walked straight back into the religion she walked out of, and had a complete turn around with regards to her world view. In simple terms, she was like Mae West, now she is like Phyllis Schlafly.</p>
<p>Kinda depressing really.</p>
<p>I really think the left needs to start having the same attitudes to religion that the Spanich Republicans back in 1936, the Mexicans had in the 30&#8217;s and 40&#8217;s and the USSR had in the 1920&#8217;s, 50&#8217;s and 60&#8217;s.</p>
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		By: MartinC		</title>
		<link>https://thedailyblog.co.nz/driving-out-the-money-changers-of-reactionary-christianity/#comment-148012</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MartinC]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Sep 2020 06:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thedailyblog.co.nz/?p=131840#comment-148012</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://thedailyblog.co.nz/driving-out-the-money-changers-of-reactionary-christianity/#comment-148003&quot;&gt;Bonnie&lt;/a&gt;.

but what say you of the charges?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://thedailyblog.co.nz/driving-out-the-money-changers-of-reactionary-christianity/#comment-148003">Bonnie</a>.</p>
<p>but what say you of the charges?</p>
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		<title>
		By: John W		</title>
		<link>https://thedailyblog.co.nz/driving-out-the-money-changers-of-reactionary-christianity/#comment-148011</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John W]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Sep 2020 09:05:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thedailyblog.co.nz/?p=131840#comment-148011</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://thedailyblog.co.nz/driving-out-the-money-changers-of-reactionary-christianity/#comment-148009&quot;&gt;austringer&lt;/a&gt;.

The grip and fear the Pentecostals create is carefully designed and contrived by their USA based  psychological advisers using the works of Freud and later research.   The women are targeted and so the children
Destiny Church and Arise church are particularly arrogant and nasty.  
Both the self elected &quot;prophets&quot; and their families and body guards live in luxury.  
Cameron of Wellington based Arise church breaks the founding trust statement and does not issue receipts.  His body guards hassle anyone who questions this.

Tamati of the destiny ilk insisted all followers present cheer and applauds when he speaks.

Two very sick situation with the flocks being brainwashed into supporting the situation.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://thedailyblog.co.nz/driving-out-the-money-changers-of-reactionary-christianity/#comment-148009">austringer</a>.</p>
<p>The grip and fear the Pentecostals create is carefully designed and contrived by their USA based  psychological advisers using the works of Freud and later research.   The women are targeted and so the children<br />
Destiny Church and Arise church are particularly arrogant and nasty.<br />
Both the self elected &#8220;prophets&#8221; and their families and body guards live in luxury.<br />
Cameron of Wellington based Arise church breaks the founding trust statement and does not issue receipts.  His body guards hassle anyone who questions this.</p>
<p>Tamati of the destiny ilk insisted all followers present cheer and applauds when he speaks.</p>
<p>Two very sick situation with the flocks being brainwashed into supporting the situation.</p>
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		By: Draco T Bastard		</title>
		<link>https://thedailyblog.co.nz/driving-out-the-money-changers-of-reactionary-christianity/#comment-148010</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Draco T Bastard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Sep 2020 07:56:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thedailyblog.co.nz/?p=131840#comment-148010</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;The social conservatism which missionary Christianity has entrenched, along with the political quietism and ruinously competitive piety it has encouraged, have stood, unrebuked by left-wing activists for far too long.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Of course it has. That&#039;s what &lt;i&gt;toleration&lt;/i&gt; is all about.

I prefer acceptance. Accepting people for who they are allows people and society to move against those who are detrimental to them such as psychopaths and financiers, to pull them in line.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The social conservatism which missionary Christianity has entrenched, along with the political quietism and ruinously competitive piety it has encouraged, have stood, unrebuked by left-wing activists for far too long.</p></blockquote>
<p>Of course it has. That&#8217;s what <i>toleration</i> is all about.</p>
<p>I prefer acceptance. Accepting people for who they are allows people and society to move against those who are detrimental to them such as psychopaths and financiers, to pull them in line.</p>
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		By: austringer		</title>
		<link>https://thedailyblog.co.nz/driving-out-the-money-changers-of-reactionary-christianity/#comment-148009</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[austringer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Sep 2020 04:55:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thedailyblog.co.nz/?p=131840#comment-148009</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Both my daughters moved to Aussie to live with their mother, a Pentecostal believer, a  world wide secular church also Branchs here in N.Z. in towns and cities. They are full-on weird very secular in themselves and only them, they say its don!t like to be judged by others, serious male Dominated and stringent censor of those family friends outside their warped doctrine and believe me its warped. My eldest daughter left her husband taking her children last year after decades of this Male/dominated doctrine, yet still attached brain washed in this sects washing.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Both my daughters moved to Aussie to live with their mother, a Pentecostal believer, a  world wide secular church also Branchs here in N.Z. in towns and cities. They are full-on weird very secular in themselves and only them, they say its don!t like to be judged by others, serious male Dominated and stringent censor of those family friends outside their warped doctrine and believe me its warped. My eldest daughter left her husband taking her children last year after decades of this Male/dominated doctrine, yet still attached brain washed in this sects washing.</p>
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		By: reason		</title>
		<link>https://thedailyblog.co.nz/driving-out-the-money-changers-of-reactionary-christianity/#comment-148008</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[reason]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Sep 2020 01:10:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thedailyblog.co.nz/?p=131840#comment-148008</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[“What would Trump say?” ...............

....&quot;Trump just hired televangelical Paula White as his faith advisor, which doesn’t come as a surprise given that both of them worship the same god: Money.&quot; ..  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYE5Lipyh_Q

The very cult like &#039; end of days&#039; ,,, Armageddon and &#039;the rapture,,, is a delusion dangerous to the everyone in the world  ,,, especially as USA evangelists support dogs of war super sinners ...who move things in the direction of their &#039;final; battle and  end of earth&#039;  prophesy.

Bad preachers are getting in the way of true Christian values  ,,  and the same is true in  all religions 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYWCpOHiNjk

Any religious leaders lauding trump should self flagellate themselves severely ,,, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=af59U2BRRAU]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“What would Trump say?” &#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8230;.&#8221;Trump just hired televangelical Paula White as his faith advisor, which doesn’t come as a surprise given that both of them worship the same god: Money.&#8221; ..  <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYE5Lipyh_Q" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYE5Lipyh_Q</a></p>
<p>The very cult like &#8216; end of days&#8217; ,,, Armageddon and &#8216;the rapture,,, is a delusion dangerous to the everyone in the world  ,,, especially as USA evangelists support dogs of war super sinners &#8230;who move things in the direction of their &#8216;final; battle and  end of earth&#8217;  prophesy.</p>
<p>Bad preachers are getting in the way of true Christian values  ,,  and the same is true in  all religions<br />
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYWCpOHiNjk" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYWCpOHiNjk</a></p>
<p>Any religious leaders lauding trump should self flagellate themselves severely ,,, <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=af59U2BRRAU" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=af59U2BRRAU</a></p>
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