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	Comments on: Citizens vs the Rogue Deep State	</title>
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	<description>Read the Other Side of the Story</description>
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		<title>
		By: Frank Macskasy		</title>
		<link>https://thedailyblog.co.nz/citizens-vs-the-rogue-deep-state/#comment-118878</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Frank Macskasy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Nov 2019 23:49:55 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[Thanks, everyone, for your thoughts. All comments have been read and considered (as always),  for adding to the discourse and in case issues have been raised that I may&#039;ve missed.

Again, thanks everyone!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, everyone, for your thoughts. All comments have been read and considered (as always),  for adding to the discourse and in case issues have been raised that I may&#8217;ve missed.</p>
<p>Again, thanks everyone!</p>
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		By: michelle		</title>
		<link>https://thedailyblog.co.nz/citizens-vs-the-rogue-deep-state/#comment-118877</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[michelle]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Nov 2019 01:32:03 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://thedailyblog.co.nz/citizens-vs-the-rogue-deep-state/#comment-118869&quot;&gt;CLEANGREEN&lt;/a&gt;.

Why does it disturb you Cleangreen the man is an idiot (nash) ps. i voted labour @ the last election but if they don&#039;t get their shit together i wont vote for them next time.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://thedailyblog.co.nz/citizens-vs-the-rogue-deep-state/#comment-118869">CLEANGREEN</a>.</p>
<p>Why does it disturb you Cleangreen the man is an idiot (nash) ps. i voted labour @ the last election but if they don&#8217;t get their shit together i wont vote for them next time.</p>
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		By: Anne		</title>
		<link>https://thedailyblog.co.nz/citizens-vs-the-rogue-deep-state/#comment-118876</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anne]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Nov 2019 23:40:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thedailyblog.co.nz/?p=120631#comment-118876</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thank-you for your erudite post Frank Macskasy.

This is by no means a new phenomenon. It has been around for decades at the least within the confines of the NZ Public Service. The main difference: with the rapid advancement of technology, the nature of the attacks have changed over the years. In the old days they were more &#039;hands on&#039; but now it is possible to remotely attack an individual without their knowledge as happened to Martyn Bradbury. 

There must be many former Public Servants who have extraordinary stories to tell, but they have never been heard. This is because there were state sanctioned cover-ups at the time and back then there were few avenues for the average person to pursue justice. The police were reluctant to to take on such cases even when criminal behaviour was evident.

My crime back in the 1970s and 80s? I joined the Labour Party. What is more I was an activist within the party. This (apparently) firmly cast me in the role of suspected subversive. My situation was exacerbated by a few malevolent individuals (one in particular) spreading false stories. The fallout from that era continued long after I left the Service.

If an enterprising journalist devoted time and energy to researching these historical cases, they would find a rich source of material revealing the nasty underbelly of The Establishment - in all its manifestations - and how they destroyed the lives and careers of individuals for no justifiable reason. It was particularly notable during the years of the Muldoon government.

I, also finish up with a quote:
&quot;The Peter principle is a concept in management developed by Laurence J. Peter, which observes that people in a hierarchy tend to rise to their &quot;level of incompetence&quot;. 

And that, based on my own case, was/is the nub of the problem - incompetency, stupidity and paranoia in both the public and private sectors.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank-you for your erudite post Frank Macskasy.</p>
<p>This is by no means a new phenomenon. It has been around for decades at the least within the confines of the NZ Public Service. The main difference: with the rapid advancement of technology, the nature of the attacks have changed over the years. In the old days they were more &#8216;hands on&#8217; but now it is possible to remotely attack an individual without their knowledge as happened to Martyn Bradbury. </p>
<p>There must be many former Public Servants who have extraordinary stories to tell, but they have never been heard. This is because there were state sanctioned cover-ups at the time and back then there were few avenues for the average person to pursue justice. The police were reluctant to to take on such cases even when criminal behaviour was evident.</p>
<p>My crime back in the 1970s and 80s? I joined the Labour Party. What is more I was an activist within the party. This (apparently) firmly cast me in the role of suspected subversive. My situation was exacerbated by a few malevolent individuals (one in particular) spreading false stories. The fallout from that era continued long after I left the Service.</p>
<p>If an enterprising journalist devoted time and energy to researching these historical cases, they would find a rich source of material revealing the nasty underbelly of The Establishment &#8211; in all its manifestations &#8211; and how they destroyed the lives and careers of individuals for no justifiable reason. It was particularly notable during the years of the Muldoon government.</p>
<p>I, also finish up with a quote:<br />
&#8220;The Peter principle is a concept in management developed by Laurence J. Peter, which observes that people in a hierarchy tend to rise to their &#8220;level of incompetence&#8221;. </p>
<p>And that, based on my own case, was/is the nub of the problem &#8211; incompetency, stupidity and paranoia in both the public and private sectors.</p>
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		By: michelle		</title>
		<link>https://thedailyblog.co.nz/citizens-vs-the-rogue-deep-state/#comment-118875</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[michelle]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Nov 2019 23:12:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thedailyblog.co.nz/?p=120631#comment-118875</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://thedailyblog.co.nz/citizens-vs-the-rogue-deep-state/#comment-118870&quot;&gt;Popeye&lt;/a&gt;.

Tolley should get the sack for what she did  and to say she was cross and tired not good enough]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://thedailyblog.co.nz/citizens-vs-the-rogue-deep-state/#comment-118870">Popeye</a>.</p>
<p>Tolley should get the sack for what she did  and to say she was cross and tired not good enough</p>
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		By: sean		</title>
		<link>https://thedailyblog.co.nz/citizens-vs-the-rogue-deep-state/#comment-118874</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sean]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Nov 2019 20:53:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thedailyblog.co.nz/?p=120631#comment-118874</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[If you look at the lack of confidence in journalism, not just here but in the US too, where Trump was elected in spite of the MSM demonising him at every turn, its clear people are thinking for themselves more than ever. Of course, this does not help when access to important stories is simply not available. Especially when most people have neither the time nor inclination, to seek out the truth. Many simply come home and plug into the MSM after a days hard work and accept what they are told. No fault of their own but a reflection of what has happened to society after 30+ years of neo liberalism.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you look at the lack of confidence in journalism, not just here but in the US too, where Trump was elected in spite of the MSM demonising him at every turn, its clear people are thinking for themselves more than ever. Of course, this does not help when access to important stories is simply not available. Especially when most people have neither the time nor inclination, to seek out the truth. Many simply come home and plug into the MSM after a days hard work and accept what they are told. No fault of their own but a reflection of what has happened to society after 30+ years of neo liberalism.</p>
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		By: WILD KATIPO		</title>
		<link>https://thedailyblog.co.nz/citizens-vs-the-rogue-deep-state/#comment-118873</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[WILD KATIPO]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Nov 2019 09:24:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thedailyblog.co.nz/?p=120631#comment-118873</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://thedailyblog.co.nz/citizens-vs-the-rogue-deep-state/#comment-118871&quot;&gt;CLEANGREEN&lt;/a&gt;.

Yes, it seems no coincidence that much of all this rot happened under the John Key led govt, esp these above. And while Labours done its fair share of power abusing , they pale into insignificance compared to the John Key crowd. And Bennett , ... that Bennett... why has she not been sacked...instead, she is now deputy leader of the same slimy morass known as the National party.

While the 4th Labour govt could be said to be the most &#039;treasonous&#039; in running roughshod over the wishes of New Zealanders and lying through their teeth when doing so , - the Key led govt and its senior Ministers would easily be the most corrupt in modern history.

And the MSM has deliberately aided and abetted this process by supporting those corrupt leaders, and helping in the smear campaigns against those singled out. I haven&#039;t posted about Mr Bradbury&#039;s victory but I was happy. I would also like to see Mr Dotcom and friends given full pardons as they were another group wrongfully targeted under that despicable Key led govt. As was Mr Hagar.

What we are seeing regards Mr Peters taking MP&#039;s from the former National party to court led by Key is an extension of that neo liberal filth ideology both the MSM and the Key led govt operated / operate under. The MSM should have been all over these wrongful uses of power like the proverbial fly&#039;s on sh-t.

Instead they weren&#039;t, and are still acting in the same way. The fact that the victory by Mr Bradbury barely got a mention demonstrates that. The fact that they tacitly supported increased covert surveillance over 9 years of Keys govt , - unchallenged, - by their silence also demonstrates their culpability. And the only time they ever spoke out was when it affected them directly , which wasn&#039;t that often and afterwards... were soon cowed into silence. Or when it was muck raking against an individual and giving more of an opinion piece rather than reporting the facts.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://thedailyblog.co.nz/citizens-vs-the-rogue-deep-state/#comment-118871">CLEANGREEN</a>.</p>
<p>Yes, it seems no coincidence that much of all this rot happened under the John Key led govt, esp these above. And while Labours done its fair share of power abusing , they pale into insignificance compared to the John Key crowd. And Bennett , &#8230; that Bennett&#8230; why has she not been sacked&#8230;instead, she is now deputy leader of the same slimy morass known as the National party.</p>
<p>While the 4th Labour govt could be said to be the most &#8216;treasonous&#8217; in running roughshod over the wishes of New Zealanders and lying through their teeth when doing so , &#8211; the Key led govt and its senior Ministers would easily be the most corrupt in modern history.</p>
<p>And the MSM has deliberately aided and abetted this process by supporting those corrupt leaders, and helping in the smear campaigns against those singled out. I haven&#8217;t posted about Mr Bradbury&#8217;s victory but I was happy. I would also like to see Mr Dotcom and friends given full pardons as they were another group wrongfully targeted under that despicable Key led govt. As was Mr Hagar.</p>
<p>What we are seeing regards Mr Peters taking MP&#8217;s from the former National party to court led by Key is an extension of that neo liberal filth ideology both the MSM and the Key led govt operated / operate under. The MSM should have been all over these wrongful uses of power like the proverbial fly&#8217;s on sh-t.</p>
<p>Instead they weren&#8217;t, and are still acting in the same way. The fact that the victory by Mr Bradbury barely got a mention demonstrates that. The fact that they tacitly supported increased covert surveillance over 9 years of Keys govt , &#8211; unchallenged, &#8211; by their silence also demonstrates their culpability. And the only time they ever spoke out was when it affected them directly , which wasn&#8217;t that often and afterwards&#8230; were soon cowed into silence. Or when it was muck raking against an individual and giving more of an opinion piece rather than reporting the facts.</p>
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		<title>
		By: freedom of speech		</title>
		<link>https://thedailyblog.co.nz/citizens-vs-the-rogue-deep-state/#comment-118872</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[freedom of speech]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Nov 2019 07:55:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thedailyblog.co.nz/?p=120631#comment-118872</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[to see nz law enforcement agencies powers grow and change  on the recommendation of the police only serve to show huge concerns where nz is heading.
when you have armed police squads roaming nz streets and attending low criminal priorities check is a disaster waiting to happen and thats only a 6 month trial ready to roll out across the country.
police state anybody??? 
there have been whistles blowers in the police force complaining about dangerous bullying practices who feared for their life.
these are the same police force who will be armed on nz streets
will we be the usa in the south pacific.
just say and know nothing against them and you are not brown you should be safe
just saying
i love the police without guns
only armed defenders only 
they are professionals and well trained 
and shoot to kill
keep nz the way we are
safe from guns]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>to see nz law enforcement agencies powers grow and change  on the recommendation of the police only serve to show huge concerns where nz is heading.<br />
when you have armed police squads roaming nz streets and attending low criminal priorities check is a disaster waiting to happen and thats only a 6 month trial ready to roll out across the country.<br />
police state anybody???<br />
there have been whistles blowers in the police force complaining about dangerous bullying practices who feared for their life.<br />
these are the same police force who will be armed on nz streets<br />
will we be the usa in the south pacific.<br />
just say and know nothing against them and you are not brown you should be safe<br />
just saying<br />
i love the police without guns<br />
only armed defenders only<br />
they are professionals and well trained<br />
and shoot to kill<br />
keep nz the way we are<br />
safe from guns</p>
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		By: CLEANGREEN		</title>
		<link>https://thedailyblog.co.nz/citizens-vs-the-rogue-deep-state/#comment-118871</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[CLEANGREEN]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Nov 2019 04:06:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thedailyblog.co.nz/?p=120631#comment-118871</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Well popeye keep your eye on this as most of those who hung around John Key/Steven Joyce gang are always acting as if criminal intent was their forte.

&quot;One rotten apple in the barrel makes the whole barrel of apples rotten&quot; comes to mind so with those two Key/Joyce makes the Wellington swamp smell rotten very quickly.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well popeye keep your eye on this as most of those who hung around John Key/Steven Joyce gang are always acting as if criminal intent was their forte.</p>
<p>&#8220;One rotten apple in the barrel makes the whole barrel of apples rotten&#8221; comes to mind so with those two Key/Joyce makes the Wellington swamp smell rotten very quickly.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Popeye		</title>
		<link>https://thedailyblog.co.nz/citizens-vs-the-rogue-deep-state/#comment-118870</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Popeye]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Nov 2019 02:46:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thedailyblog.co.nz/?p=120631#comment-118870</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Twas a pleasure to see Anne Tolley take the stand in Winston&#039;s court case and admit she had passed on personal client information to her family. Imagine, a senior member of the National government squirming in her seat as she tried to defend her big mouth, unable to rally her cabal to protect her position, and finally blurting out &quot;I wished I&#039;d never seen the file&quot; or something to that effect. Not &quot;I am sorry to the client for breaching his privacy&quot; or &quot;Sorry for misconduct and bringing the NZ government into disrepute&quot;, no just a self-preserving ridiculous excuse for lack of professionalism and weaponisation of privileged position (&quot;I was tired, I was cross). She couldn&#039;t care less.
The MSM commentary hasn&#039;t been any more favourable to this breach of privacy and actions by our public service. On RNZ Politics this morning Mike Williams giggled &quot;Give Anne Tolley a big pat on the back for honesty&quot;, castigated (Winston) &quot;Clearly he&#039;s after Utu&quot;, and dismissed (Winston&#039;s trial) &quot;It&#039;s a sidebar&quot;. Hooton went full gaslighter and suggested it was all Winston&#039;s fault:
&quot;Everyone has behaved badly here including Mr Peters&quot;, &quot;He was called by some case manager who was looking after his superannuation file and he sounds, according to one version of the story, arrogant and haughty, and I think it probably could have gone away if he just said straight away to the person who phoned him, the junior poor official who had to tell Winston Peters this news, sorry I&#039;ll fix it up. It sounds like his behaviour contributed to it being escalated to a higher level&quot;.
Williams and Hooton sound as though they have been hanging with criminals for so long  that they are starting to sound like them. The whole establishment in fact is starting to stink like high heaven.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Twas a pleasure to see Anne Tolley take the stand in Winston&#8217;s court case and admit she had passed on personal client information to her family. Imagine, a senior member of the National government squirming in her seat as she tried to defend her big mouth, unable to rally her cabal to protect her position, and finally blurting out &#8220;I wished I&#8217;d never seen the file&#8221; or something to that effect. Not &#8220;I am sorry to the client for breaching his privacy&#8221; or &#8220;Sorry for misconduct and bringing the NZ government into disrepute&#8221;, no just a self-preserving ridiculous excuse for lack of professionalism and weaponisation of privileged position (&#8220;I was tired, I was cross). She couldn&#8217;t care less.<br />
The MSM commentary hasn&#8217;t been any more favourable to this breach of privacy and actions by our public service. On RNZ Politics this morning Mike Williams giggled &#8220;Give Anne Tolley a big pat on the back for honesty&#8221;, castigated (Winston) &#8220;Clearly he&#8217;s after Utu&#8221;, and dismissed (Winston&#8217;s trial) &#8220;It&#8217;s a sidebar&#8221;. Hooton went full gaslighter and suggested it was all Winston&#8217;s fault:<br />
&#8220;Everyone has behaved badly here including Mr Peters&#8221;, &#8220;He was called by some case manager who was looking after his superannuation file and he sounds, according to one version of the story, arrogant and haughty, and I think it probably could have gone away if he just said straight away to the person who phoned him, the junior poor official who had to tell Winston Peters this news, sorry I&#8217;ll fix it up. It sounds like his behaviour contributed to it being escalated to a higher level&#8221;.<br />
Williams and Hooton sound as though they have been hanging with criminals for so long  that they are starting to sound like them. The whole establishment in fact is starting to stink like high heaven.</p>
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		By: CLEANGREEN		</title>
		<link>https://thedailyblog.co.nz/citizens-vs-the-rogue-deep-state/#comment-118869</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[CLEANGREEN]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Nov 2019 00:52:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://thedailyblog.co.nz/?p=120631#comment-118869</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Well said Frank;

The Police minister has been strangely quiet over this? 

I would expect him to step into this confirming &#039;Martyn&#039;s total vindication&#039; over this &#039;sham effort to bully Martyn&#039;.

But it seems Mr Nash does not want to clear Martyn&#039;s name entirely?

This is disturbing me greatly here.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said Frank;</p>
<p>The Police minister has been strangely quiet over this? </p>
<p>I would expect him to step into this confirming &#8216;Martyn&#8217;s total vindication&#8217; over this &#8216;sham effort to bully Martyn&#8217;.</p>
<p>But it seems Mr Nash does not want to clear Martyn&#8217;s name entirely?</p>
<p>This is disturbing me greatly here.</p>
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