I’ve got to get this out, but first I need to make a disclaimer. I am an atheist. I wondered if I was agnostic but the weight of science and rational thought led me to atheism.
What do I need to get out? Sometimes in life you see hypocrisy so crisply defined that you just have to marvel at the complexity of the scaffolding that holds it all together.
Now remember that I have a wafer thin knowledge of the Bible. Apart from the miserable year I spent at a Presbyterian private school and the still to be explained years of Sunday School my parents inflicted on my brothers and I in the 1960’s, I have nothing.
My father was raised Anglican and my mother wasn’t aware she was Jewish until she was informed of it in the school playground. As the decades rolled by, Mum and Dad dropped all pretense of religious affiliation and as they entered their “golden years”, became not only atheistic but deeply offended by the harm religion seemed to do around the world.
My three brothers and I have a shared sense of the nonsense of deep religious faith but accept that it is the choice of individuals so we don’t go around making a noise and embarrassing or challenging those of faith.
However, what I cannot get past is what seems to be colloquially called prosperity gospel. The affinity I do feel for all religions is the fundamental tenet of service. The unifying principle of responsibility to those around us who are vulnerable or suffering is something that is a a universal human trait.
How anyone can take the Bible and make it say that personal enrichment is one’s responsibility or right or whatever the interpretation is defies belief. What it shows is that nothing cannot be corrupted with enough effort, suspension of humanity and cynical self-regard.
It’s ironic. I quite often say to myself or others in a business or personal context “what would Jesus do?” and I don’t do it in a sneering and dismissive way. I ask it for a couple of reasons. The first is because it has a touch of ironic humour since I am an atheist, but also because I am quite clear that the answer would always be doing the right thing by others, give generously of yourself, try and walk in the other guys shoes, be selfless and serve.
Prosperity gospel seems to provide some with the excuse they need to serve themselves and call it God’s will. Why does this bother me? Because I try and live a life that contains service and a commitment to humanity and the possibility of equity and a good life for others. I don’t do it for Jesus. I do it because it’s the right thing to do.
I stumble and fall, I make bad decisions and hurt people unintentionally, but my heart is in the right place and I try and clean up my messes. I am terribly flawed and am well aware of it. I try and work on that stuff.
I don’t believe in God, but I reckon if there was a God, people who follow the prosperity gospel will burn in the fiery pits of hell for all of eternity.
Margaret Thatcher, global misanthrope, once said — “there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women and there are families.” I universally reject this cold and soulless philosophy. My Jewish grandfather, whom I never met, apparently used to ask himself the question — “am I my brothers keeper?” and from this atheist I say resoundingly YES I am.
This is not a criticism of religion. It is a calling out of the hypocrisy that is giving it a really bad name amongst the people who believe we need to put our efforts into building a better, more equitable society for the benefit of all.
If we don’t, what is the point of anything? Is it just about our relentless pursuit of personal enrichment and “freedom”? Is this how humanity dies? In a cauldron of hot takes about the sovereignty of the individual.
Look at us as a species. We aren’t Lions and we aren’t Great White Sharks. We are the equivalent of otters (on our best days). We are 80 pound weaklings as individuals, but when we act collaboratively and generously, we can do almost anything.
Why are we so hell-bent on expressing the worst of ourselves? We have the potential to be great, yet we are on a trajectory to extinction. You may not agree with this analysis, but is it really worth testing the parameters?
I cannot help but use our very own Brian Tamaki as a glittering example. Full of piousness and judgement and expecting to influence so much of how society thinks and functions. In the end, out of all of New Zealand, only 7,000 people bought into his Handmaid’s Tale future vision.
Maybe we aren’t as doomed as I thought, but please feel free to disagree.
John Luxton – I’m a 62 year old white male, living and working in a privileged position, with own home, boutique business advisory and happy family. I come from a true blue dairy farming background but from my first ever vote (Values), have been a bit of a lefty. The longer I live and the more unfairness I see in the world, the more lefty I become. I’m sick to fucking death of neo-liberal economics and I find this government to be almost comically evil. www.regenerationhq.co.nz
What the fuck did I just read…?
It might be hard to relate to if you have never spent any time in Pentecostal churches where this (“prosperity gospel”) is taught – but many kiwis have, and I for one can relate.
I have never met Brian Tamaki but about 10 years ago was invited to teach a two day seminar to a group of 32 on how to start a business. I was told that it was for a church group and was completely unprepared for the group of men I encountered and realised my material and presentation was unsuitable as many could not read.
Every man had a problematic background and all had huge respect for Tamaki who was running the program and each man seemed determined to do better and put the past behind them.
We decided to try to start a number of “character” based businesses- lawnmowing, cleaning etc and those in the church with money donated to buy lawmowers and trailers. We had a BBQ to finish and some of the wives and older children offered to deliver pamphlets offering the new business services.Tamaki definitely changed the trajectory of those lives.
I’m thinking character based businesses and groups of individuals with supportive and practical ideas connecting and deciding to form extended groups keeping in touch, working in with each other, and disciplining themselves as reliable individuals need to, will be the way forward.
General society seems to be sleep walking or apathetic or enveloped in its own ego, and that will include many of your own family. Looking at the people who have left Gloriavale and conferring with them would be wise and helpful to all. They have been through the mill and seen the soulless result of warped business people and those of shallow and conventional morality, manipulate people an turn some into exhausted brainwashed virtual slaves. It is important to respect each person for what they are and their innate skills and mindset and when that happens some can rise and achieve to their wonderful potential.
Remembering that it is wonderful to have life and be in this amazing and aweful life on this wonderful planet. We just have to stop taking it, ourselves and each other for granted and enjoy striving for that sweet spot that may come if we can get balanced in attitudes. Learning how is a lifetime’s work and on the way being kindly and practical and useful to each other and reaping a benefit beyond heaped assets.
Am probably more agnostic and happy to wait till after the final breath to either slip into the darkness of an everlasting sleep or walk into the light. Either way no concern for now. Like you I hate organised religion that are leaches on society. I prefer we all followed the AA ten steps to self actualisation.
What I find hypocritical on your part is the smug attitude of living in a privileged position with your own home and having a secure income. You have gained those as a child off, having gotten to a comfortable position in life and continue to do so; thanks to neo-liberal economics.
Now you want to draw that bridge up for others to lever themselves up to your neo-liberal economics derived contented and happy life, but have no alternative to offer those who struggle here in deepest darkest South Auckland. Who would love to lead a full and happy life in say Taupo.
You do realise that one alternative to a neo-liberal economy is Marxism where your assets (especially that nice home you own) would be confiscated by the state and redistributed to the people?
So please save the glib and condescending rhetoric and give up the now-liberal fueled gains and sell up to work for the people not reached by your “boutique business advisory” stuff. Stuff that is still mired in neo-liberal economics.
How happy will your family be if you actually walked the talk and kicked neo-liberal economics to the kerb in your own life?
Remember that Marx watched what others developed from his ideas with misgiving. He said he was not a marxist.
From Marx’s letter derives Marx’s famous remark that, if their politics represented Marxism, ‘ce qu’il y a de certain c’est que moi, je ne suis pas Marxiste’ (‘what is certain is that I myself am not a Marxist’).”
Marxism – Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Marxism
Jesus could look at the prosperity churches now, even noting an education program on how to run a church of wealth, he would probably say that he was not a christian. His message has a trend against money or waiting to receive manna by praying. I think he was for everyone pulling their weight, especially on the fishing nets, and remaining rather humble, kindly and
not getting off track with obsessions for idols with no divinity.
Thanks for your opinion, while I am the same age I have almost the complete opposite relationship with religion (one of them anyway) yet I agree with your assessment of most of Christianity. Good people exist inside or outside the numerous faith systems worldwide (probably most often outside) and our understanding is that all will get a chance to choose and determine their future.
As soon as people try to force ideas on anyone you can be sure that it is a false teaching so keep an open mind and be prepared for rapid changes.
Man you sound so much like myself .Same sort of up bringing but the more I had to do with so called christians the more I disliked them .My worst employer was the bigest hypocrite ever and treated his beautiful wife like a dirty sex slave .
Why a christian thinks he needs 7 houses is fucken astounding ,should he not be building homes for the homeless .
A local man drives to Ohakune once a month and brings back a small truck load of potatoes and carrots that he then donates to the community and any other passers by .That is what I call being a christian
Atheists have every right to comment on religion, but that does not mean that they are necessarily qualified to do so. One who has completed a course in religious studies might be better equipped to assess the pros and cons of religious belief, as would one who has had a close relationship with or been in close communication with people from a range of different faiths.
The prosperity gospel (more correctly the prosperity heresy) has a rational foundation that is common to most faiths. Put simply, it is the belief that if you live your life well, being sober, industrious, honest and compassionate then you may come out better than those who are intemperate, lazy, dishonest and callous. That proposition is very hard to rebut, and I don’t know why anyone would want to try. However it does not work in reverse. One cannot conclude that because a person has “done well in the world” they must be virtuous, or that because a person has had a difficult life they must be lacking in virtue.
So the idea that wealth is a sign of God’s grace is a heresy: a perversion of the truth. Christopher Luxon gets away with being a prosperity heretic precisely because so many New Zealanders are atheists who have no ability to examine his claims critically, and lack the knowledge of scripture which would enable them to refute his heretical claims and to properly judge his immoral policies at home or abroad.
Brian Tamaki shares the same heresy and on account of that has similar policy positions to Christopher Luxon. The difference between the two is that Tamaki is more open than Luxon. Take the Gaza genocide for example. Tamaki endorses it because he sees that Israel is a powerful, successful expansionist state which has the backing of another even more powerful state, the United States of America. Using the false logic of which the prosperity heresy is but one particular expression, he concludes that these two states must have been chosen and blessed by God. Luxon probably follows the same reasoning. When the genocidal criminals of Israel and the US come to grief, as they surely will, Luxon and Tamaki will go looking for a new world power to be hailed as the anointed one of God.
Hypocrisy does not give religion a bad name. On the contrary, as the saying goes “Hypocrisy is the tribute that vice pays to virtue”. Any virtuous movement or organisation will inevitably attract hypocrites, for two reasons. First, because the genuine believers are often easy prey for the hypocrites and dissemblers, the “wolves in sheep’s clothing”. Second, because a faith built on righteousness provides the perfect cover for those with sinister intentions in relation to the wider world.
However, as another saying goes, let us not throw out the baby with the bathwater. There are millions of Christians, Muslims, Jews and people of other faiths who follow the simple teaching “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you” out of devotion to their God.
“One who has completed a course in religious studies might be better equipped to assess the pros and cons of religious belief,”
Lols.
Only those with advanced knowledge of Santa Claus and flying reindeer are qualified to discuss the reality of their existence.
Richard, do you not understand the difference between my remark that those with knowledge “might be better equipped to assess” religious belief and your own distorted rendition that “only those with advanced knowledge…are qualified to discuss” the same? I don’t blame you for your ignorance of religion, but your inability to comprehend a simple statement in the English language leaves you unqualified to discuss pretty much anything on this blog.
Fabulous – could not agree with you MORE. Your comment above bears endless reiteration . “I am quite clear that the answer would always be doing the right thing by others, give generously of yourself, try and walk in the other guys shoes, be selfless and serve.” Any system religious or political (we can argue as to whether in fact they are at bottom the same thing) encourabing competition rather than cooperation will surely fail its adherents and the society around it. WAKE UP PEOPLE – if one person loses we all do.
The prosperity gospel has one function and one function only. To draw in the gullible, and get them to contribute money to people like Tamaki. It’s allied with the concept of “seed money” – that if you give the pastor money, it acts like a seed and your wealth will grow. It may well have started out as the belief that sober industrious people will prosper and others won’t, but it’s gone far beyond that now.
Interesting that I’m not qualified to comment on religion – specifically Christianity I suppose. Christians seem to be able to comment about other religions like Islam without knowing anything much about it at all, in fact without reading any of their holy books. I at least have read the Bible, although not for a long, long time.
It is not a gospel. It is a heresy. So call it that. The “prosperity heresy”, not the “prosperity gospel”.
Ah, the no true Scotsman defence. Always the go to for Christian apologists. You have not perhaps thought that they consider whatever you believe a heresy? Just sayin’.
I am not claiming that the members of Destiny Church are not true Christians. I am saying that one particular theological doctrine they espouse is illogical, has no real basis in scripture, is in fact contrary to scripture and therefore is heresy. Brian Tamaki and his supporters (or for that matter Prime Minister Luxon) are free to debate the prosperity heresy with me, here on TDB or anywhere else.
If anyone wants to accuse me in my turn of heresy they can bring their case, but no one has. Therefore your “Just sayin’ ” is irrelevant and mischievous.
I have accused Luxon of being a fake Christian not because of his theological error but because of his material support of genocide in Gaza, indiscriminately directed against both Muslims and Christians. Theological error must be tolerated if it is the result of a sincere belief, but no toleration can be shown towards outright mass murder used as a way to gain and maintain power in the world.
“I am not claiming that the members of Destiny Church are not true Christians. I am saying that one particular theological doctrine they espouse is illogical, has no real basis in scripture, is in fact contrary to scripture and therefore is heresy. ”
Which in effect makes them in some way unchristian. So yes you are. Your defence of this is simply semantics, and it seems to me disingenuous. The idea of sincere heresy being tolerated must be new to Christianity given the history. The Luxon thing I agree with.
You had better argue with God who inspired the bible where it is written “Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent,”
But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
We are told not to judge others but God who knows all can determine the genuineness of people’s faith even though they might not have been taught all the truth yet.
You are the one that says they are “in some way unCbristian”, not I. Do not try to substitute your own words for my words. I disagree with some Destiny Church doctrines, and agree with others. God may judge people according to their heart condition, but I cannot see into the heart of man, so I judge him according to his actions, not according to belief. You say “The idea of sincere heresy being tolerated must be new to Christianity given the history.” That is an incorrect supposition. We have accepted difference of belief since 1814 and arguably long before that. Hahi Mihinare, Hahi Weteriana, Hahi Katoriko, Ringatu, Ratana and others all get along, share the same marae, often lie in the same urupa, and sometimes even share the same ministers. Religious belief is something we talk about, not something we fight over.
Prosperity = Freedom from poverty
Gospel = Good news
Prosperity Gospel = The good news of freedom from poverty.
It kind of sounds like tautology to me.
Pretty sure that anyone who cares about people would want them to be free from poverty, let alone God. I’m also pretty sure that He finds the idea that people should have to purchase that, by supporting a particular ministry, abhorrent.
This isn’t just a hypocrisy limited to the religious. After all, we have a main stream political party that doesn’t give a shit about working people but call themselves ‘Labour’.
Comments are closed.