Boot camps for young offenders are back – the psychological evidence they don’t work never went away
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- The Government is reintroducing boot camps to crack down on serious youth offenders, with the first due to start by the middle of this year.
- The first pilot camp will feature both a military-style component and a “rehabilitative and trauma-informed care approach”.
- New Zealand has a 50-year track record with military-style boot camps for unruly youths, from“corrective training” camps of the 1980s and 1990s. By 1997, the reconviction rate for participants was 92 per cent and the programme was scrapped a few years later.
You all know Military Boot Camps don’t work.
You know that, I know that, National knows that, and Oranga Tamariki should be ashamed.
Let’s be 100% clear here.
If you are Right Wing you don’t care Military Boot Camps don’t work, all you care about is that kids you despise get the bash from some brutal Full Metal Jacket level Boot Camp fantasy!
Admit it, you known this doesn’t work, you just want revenge and a sense these kids are frightened and yelled at.
You know it’s all counter productive but this is redneck vengeance being passed as social policy to make right wing voters feel a sense of power in their powerless lives.
There is no science based research that proves these things work and that’s fine by the Right because it’s not about facts, it’s about right wing revenge.
Right wing ‘feelings; have replaced Left wing ‘feelings’ as policy and we are all worse off!
Feelings, nothing more than feelings.
Morris Albert’s 1974 classic ‘Feelings‘ kinda manages to sum up the current political culture.
Right now in New Zealand, you can win an argument with nothing more than ‘feelings’.
If you ‘feel’ the argument more than the other, then you win.
Crazy no?
Because objective truth, logic and rational debate are all heteronormative white cis male privileges, ‘FEELINGS’ are all that matter now and once the middle class woke activists triggered that new threshold for truth, the feral anti vaxxers and Incels and redneck racists and Groundswell astroturf protests have done exactly the same!
This is the new politics of the neoliberal subjective!
We have too many fucking feelings and we have allowed a culture where feelings trump rational objective logic because the ‘lived experience’ of victims, racists, rednecks, Incels, feral antivaxers and woke middle class activists all replace reality, objective truth and class solidarity.
The only people who should give a fuck about your ‘feelings’ are you, your family and close friends.
Outside of that, fuck your feelings.
Your feelings ain’t my problem.
If your self-esteem is hurt by my thoughts, the clue is in the ‘self’ part of word, ‘self-esteem’.
You decide how you feel about shit, it ain’t no one else’s problem OR responsibility!
We have replaced feelings for rational debates.
We have replaced feelings for objective truth.
We have replaced feelings for wider context.
The Woke started this in 2016 with their social media Lynch mobs, the feral Right have now perfected it.
Everything we are seeing right now from this far right racist Government is ‘feelings’ based, not evidence based!
This Government is passing conspiracy theories into social policy because deranged antivaxxers ‘feel’ angry about a vaccination.
This Government will cut public funding to Community Sports if they have a Trans player because their angry anti-Trans voters ‘feel’ angry!
This Government is bashing beneficiaries, prisoners, renters, Māori, the environment and workers because the right wing voters ‘feel’ angry no matter how counterproductive those culture war revenge fantasies are!
FFS – we are seriously going to go against all the science and just raise the speed limits on roads because people feel angry at not being able to rush home!
Fuck! Your! Feelings!
The Right have perfected the Woke’s outrage olympics and all politics is now your ‘feelings’!
This is the new politics of the neoliberal subjective.
The greatest danger posed by Idenity Politics is if white males start seeing themselves as a victim as well, which is exactly what the woke managed to achieve.
If we on the Left will be dictated to by our feelings, then the fucking Right will gleefully play that game too!
Can the Left move from Pure Temple politics towards Broadchurch Class Solidarity, because if we can’t, the most hard right racist Government ever elected will remain in power.
The new politics of the neoliberal subjective have robbed us of a unity based on rational logic and argument and replaced it with the sandcastles of feelings.
I’m not interested in your feelings, I am interested in your thinkings!
New Zealand Aotearoa deserves a State that helps the people and builds the nation, not one that tears everything down and punishes those their voters despise!
We should base policy on evidence, not fucking feelings!
Agreed we are in serious trouble when the 8% anti social river of filth are pulling the strings of the other 92% that never elected them .They do not have one single elected member of parliament they just slithered their way in .
“The anti-social river of filth” the deplorables, the lowest of the low, the scum – the ones that only Winston Peters would talk to in a democracy.
You mean the people who didn’t go with the flow. Who thought maybe the most likely cause of the pandemic was a lab leak. Who thought how come the vaccine maker needs 75 years of freedom from indemnity for vaccine side effects, if the vaccine is safe. Who thought being fired for refusing to take an experimental vaccine was a little bit over the top?
At this stage, one of the major vaccines has been withdrawn because it’s proven unsafe due to its side effects. The data shows the covid vaccines did not stop transmission. The vaccine may alleviate symptoms but it doesn’t stop you from getting covid. The CDC had to change its definition of what a ‘vaccine’ is to accommodate this fact.
I was vaxxed and boosted and think Jacinda did a good job in the circumstances. Can we stop calling people who had legitimate, reasonable concerns, “river of filth”.
Regarding 8% pulling the strings of 92% – the 92% can rearrange themselves or call a snap election at any time they choose.
Yawn
100% Gordon
Yes ..slithered in on the back of big money.
These are the same people who tell everyone that money doesn’t matter when it comes to being a success.
It’s just simply a matter of application, hard work, and diligence and the rest will fall into place.
Oh really…that simple???.
Then let’s take the money way from them and then see how successful
they are!!
Jesus said, “if you love me keep my commandments”. Luxon says he is going to force people to obey, there is not a Christian thought in him is my thinking about him.
The corrective Training boot camps breeds discontent and these damaged kids bully other damaged kids! Maori make up a large percentage of these damaged kids and a lot will end up in the prison pipeline committing serious crimes against their own communities.
This government redneck fantasies of continuing this proven failure show that they are not interested in turning this tide actually it seems that they just don’t give a fuck.
Intervention and rehabilitation is put into the to hard basket but changing isn’t easy either when you come from a dispossessed society where your culture is demonized at the highest levels and subtly thru society it no wonder Maori are prone to disproportionately overrepresented in all negative statistics similarly affecting other indigenous populations colonised by european exceptionalism.
Boot camps provide a career pathway to the armed forces for the students.
Ironically the CT, DC, Borstal and other such youth punishment programs of the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s are what spawned the black power and mongrel mob and then provided a feeder group to help them grow. Very few ended up in the armed forces.
Evidence Marco?
The boot camps are like the 13 cancer drugs promised and the breast cancer screening they have hairs on them. The boot camps policy has already been dumbed down to now only three months stay yet when electioneering they said 12 months of stay. The breast cancer screening for up to 74 years olds doesn’t kick in till end of 2025. And by the time these dicks heads in power sort the logistics out (because they didn’t do their homework) to deliver, how many people will be dead. But they will blame the so-called fiscal cliff.
Agreed.
It’s like laws against gang patches; purely superficial because those boys are mostly already damaged beyond repair. Mostly born to solo mum welfare queens, neglected, many suffering from FAS and bashed by a string of boyfriends who passed through in their childhood. These boys were doomed the day they were born.
So, what does work? How do we get to the top of the cliff and impact the root causes of the problem?
I have a few suggestions. Do you?
Okay, lets hear these suggestions then.
I know that Jesus has the answer but He does not force himself on anyone. People need to see a reward for any change of behavior so unless what you suggest appears better to them than what they have now it is unlikely to succeed.
As Stand Alone says let’s see your ideas.
Yes, Andrew I know firsthand as my brother was in the killer bees and he does not fit most of the description of what you described as most likely to be or end up in a gang except for, he was touched by the crowns workers as a youth making him angrier and more prone to violent outburst.
Please share the suggestions. The TDB and the left could do with more ideas and solutions in the ring rather than everyone commenting again and again on stuff known not to work.
Well the softly softly touch from Labour did not work hlthat well either.
At some time we need to try am educate couples not to have children they cannot afford or have no interest in bringing up in a civilized way .Feeding their children, sending them to school giving them a good example to follow.
It is not the children that are at fault it is the parents and government policy that leads to the need for punishment.
So according to you Labour tried something that didn’t work so National should try something proven not to work. Wow.
We shouldn’t be in the position that you can’t afford to have a child (not five of them) for a multitude of reasons, but conversely I can empathise with the notion you should not have kids you can’t afford.
“Oh Yeah? Well Labour Bad!”
Said like a true Nat supporter…
“At some time we need to try am educate couples not to have children”
You went to the same grammar school as Bob the first Trevor?
I will forgive you for that.
With average house prices around $1million dollars and 16 times the average income, rents well over 50% of income, it is now only the rich, and the children of the rich, who can afford to have children…that’s the simple reality, and the young are doing away with the idea of ever starting a family in their droves.
And, given a sniff of a chance, this government will open up our property market to overseas buyers thus turn the housing market into a giant casino again. They are so dumb!
As it now stands, 85% of the population are out of the running from ever starting a family.
That will very quickly lead to the end of civilization! Do the math!!
So what about disappearing dads Andrew ? Few women choose to live hard lives, and most mothers want what is best for their offspring. You’re not a mother, so you don’t know these things, and even if you transgender along the way, you still won’t. Fact is, the pollies had to be seen to be addressing law and order issues, and another fact is that the Outward Bound experience, similar to Boot Camps, has transformed some kids’ lives. Instead of bleating that you have suggestions, act on them.
Thanks Brigid, the fine line seems to be in being able to criticize any irresponsible parent without being accused of being sexist from either gender.
I think it’s inaccurate to say “The Woke started all this in 2016” – what ‘logical thought’s forms bennie bashing’? It’s just a political (and social engineering) tool to swing that feeling of unhappiness or ,at times, guilt towards something other ( or someone other) than what is actually causing it. And it is more effectively used on people who are -by their natures – more swung by feelings over facts. These kids who ‘need to go to boot camp’ are not an easy fix – do those with the ability wanna chip in the money & time for it?
By the by – where was the week-run new stories and serious political discussion about closing health camps and drying out centres? Bringing mental health care into the community without putting more money into it (when everyone knew costs more?). Running public housing like ‘housing’ not homing and turning NZ into a renting nation, without longterm renting protections? Could be why we have some of these little shit to start with?
Yes, Andrew I know firsthand as my brother was in the killer bees and he does not fit most of the description of what you described as most likely to be or end up in a gang except for, he was touched by the crowns workers at a boot camp as a youth making him angrier and more prone to violent outburst.
Yes, Trev and in the meantime, we have an unprecedented number of people sitting in prison waiting for their court’s cases a breach of their rights many can’t get an approved bail address. What happened to innocent until proven guilty. Mega prisons equal mega bucks’ equal mega social problems as they eventually have to get out.
Im boot camp survivour, as are some of my friends, we get together now and then, to remember and repent, our misgivings, that we should have repented our past indulgence, of fuck society. So enthused now our friends are we are not boot camp survivour!s, we are the boot camp gangs, that your fucked up philistine thought could alter.
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