Who would open immigration flood gates fastest? National? ACT? Greens? 

The many excuses the Right have used to justify their low wage culture

We need degrowth Capitalism using Think Big Economic Sovereignty to make NZ sustainable.

What we get offered up is globalist free market mantra. Both National and ACT (and to a lesser degree the Greens) see throwing open the immigration flood gates as the solution to tepid GDP growth.

It’s what Key did for 3 terms and it inflated GDP while causing infrastructure gridlock and skyrocketing rents.

ACT and National point to the labour shortage pain crippling our economy and pretend importing cheaper labour is the solution when that was the problem in the first place!

We are addicted to hyper tourism, property speculation and a low wage economy by using international labour flows.

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We have become so blinded by free market mythology we refuse to acknowledge short sighted lazy immigration and a user pays view of essential services has caused the issues we have now!

We are addicted to a low cost labour force and force our domestically trained teachers, nurses and Drs offshore to repay the student loans we saddle them with!

The bitter harvest of user pays is biting us now and all the right have to offer as a solution is more cheap labour!

That’s no longer a solution in a world beset by geopolitical shockwaves, that flow of human capital is now shellshocked and amputated. Supply chain shut down alongside soaring costs will limit travel to the wealthiest.

The Greens mumble about sustainable population rates but are culturally held hostage to migrant rights above all so while less economically chained to using foreign labour to drive down wages, they are identity politics wise bound to open migration.

Increasingly Isolationism becomes a more demanding reality, this is NZ First political territory and if articulated by Winston could have enormous political milage at the ballot box.


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  1. All of them will do it according to their political stances.

    And those that are not ok with this have no political home.

    • Stats NZ has issued population projections, noting that the number of people aged 65 years or older is likely rise from 842,000 today to hit 1 million by 2028. On current demographic trends and assumptions, this cohort could reach 1.3 million around 2040, and 1.5 million by the 2050s. No other age cohort is growing. Those 65 or older equal 25% of the working-age population (15-64) now, will be 30% by 2028, 36% by 2040, and 40% by the 2050s. The current median age of 38 will rise to 45 in the 2050s. Only immigration can prevent this imbalance, which if left unchecked will become fiscally unsustainable well before the 2050s. What kind of immigration? Highly skilled on high wages paying heaps of tax, of course, to keep us oldies in the style to which we are accustomed. A stiff land tax wouldn’t go astray, either.

      • It’t the opposite, since NZ’s mass immigration, many foreign pensioners have poured in, needing the pension and health services.

  2. Clint Smith (who is now clearly driving economic policy for Labour) believes in artificially limiting immigration to create wage growth inflation. The problem with this approach is 2-fold:

    1). It drives up inflation that in turn adversely affects cost-of-living
    2). Productivity takes a hit that it can’t recover from (i.e. you produce less for more cost)

    In other words it makes no economic sense unless of course you are a socialist.

    • except for the fact that NZ is a low wage economy and always has been, wage growth is pitiful so it can’t be driver of inflation but I”ll tell you what is, price gouging by our numerous near monopolies and extortionate rents.

      and no costs don’t HAVE to be passed on they can be absorbed by lower margins ie-the grocery duopoly and the gib board monopoly…kiwi companies who are creaming it could do the ‘patriotic’ thing and take a hit on their massive profiteering.

    • Not sure that Labour is limiting immigration – they are encouraging it.

      Almost 200,000 people apply for new fast-track residency visa

      The problem is that the fast track visas have migrants don’t need to work, don’t need an age limit, half have no incomes as they are dependants, a significant amount can’t speak English, they are unskilled jobs aka a bakers assistant can apply on low wages.

      You have to wonder who decided this idiot criteria in the middle/end of a health crisis pandemic when the obvious priority should have been only qualified doctors and nurses to get residency not more patients and low/no income migrants to compete against the low/no income Kiwis.

    • So Frank giving a few people a bit more money drives up inflation, but importing loads of cheap labour doesn’t have any impact on cost of living through rental shortages and more demand, let alone pressure on infrastructure. Pull the other one.

    • Productivity is driven by applying more capital to labour. NZ will continue on a low wage low productivity path until wage rates are inflated enough to drive appropriate capital investment.

  3. I hope you’re not losing it @Martyn because that question is pretty bloody obvious isn’t it?
    gNats and Actoids will open the floodgates in order to keep the peons in check. Whereas the Gweens will opn the doors to those (and their families) we ekshully need in this space going forward. Such as Nurses and doctors and essential workers. (I’ve only EVER electorate voted Green btw, and acted as a scrutineer, and delivered electioneering pamphlets).
    Sure we cudda shudda wudda trained ‘our own’, BUT WE DIDN’T, and we need them now.
    There’s no point grieving over it all now, clutching our pearls and gazing at our navels. Accept the fact the ‘collective we’ – the TEAM of 5 Million’ fucked up. And “we” have fucked up badly.
    We need nurses, and midwives, and el doctores, and truck and train drivers, and better experts in green creds (many of whom we’ve lied and cheated to attract, and then tipped out of the motu).


    • Krekshun:
      (I’ve only EVER electorate voted Green btw, and acted as a scrutineer, and delivered electioneering pamphlets).
      > (I’ve only EVER electorate voted Green btw, and acted as a scrutineer, and delivered electioneering pamphlets ONCE). Labour every other time. Silly me!

  4. More blaa immigration bad blaa immigrants bad blaa blaa blaa.

    Rather than just more blaa blaa blaa offer a solution, that’s what everyone is looking for.

    • Just a thought: the first step towards a solution is to identify and clearly articulate what exactly the problem is. That’s what Martyn is doing.

    • Easy ,have a $50k bond for any employers bringing in employees so that if they fail to work out, the bond is paid to fly their workers home. That immediately stops many scams.

      Have a minimum of $100k+ per annum based on a 40 hr week to bring an overseas worker into NZ. Again stops NZ becoming a low wage economy. In OZ they pay lollipop people $180k!

      NZ keeps lowering construction and health and support wages to the point, nobody wants to work or train in that industry anymore. Then it becomes very expensive (aka highest price to construct roads in world etc) and nobody can get anything done anymore, as there is not the skills to do so.

      Don’t allow visas to bring in family members. Priority of services, should be to existing residents, not continually adding more demand to an overloaded system. Our government is more worried about workers and pensioners and children who don’t live in NZ’s rights, than workers and pensioners and children who do!

      Do not link residency to work permits – people are happy to work overseas without residency if they can make good money, aka UK and OZ and Dubai work visas. NZ is doing the opposite encouraging people just to come here for residency/citizen status and then work the crap out of them with poor work conditions so that they leave, go onto benefits, ACC or change to easier jobs very quickly.

      Make citizenship and residency very hard to get and take a much longer time to achieve aka 10+ years – value it – just like the much more successful countries above who have high levels of more satisfied overseas workers, who have less rights and have to pay their own way for social services in that country – but DON’T CARE, because they get decent wages and that is what they came to do, WORK!

      Deport and revoke temporary people on visas, who don’t respect NZ laws as soon as they break the law, not wait 20+ years of constant appeals, clogging up our legal system, while they victimise more people, make videos about their crimes here or become mentally ill/protected person/refugee and then claim they have been here so long, have kids here etc, it’s not compassionate to deport them! Again priority needs to be protecting NZ citizens from crime and harm, not on the perpetrators rights to keep victimising in NZ!

      Fraud and exploitation should be considered as much a crime as violence – even if supposedly unintentional. Otherwise NZ is filling up with more people defrauded out of their money and belongings, while our justice system, says, meh, not much of a crime. That encourages the victims to leave NZ, while the fraudsters stay and proliferate. Not justice!

      End the Ponzi of international student visas by not allowing residency off the visas. It is encouraging poor students or those who come and then never even do their course, passing everyone at low standards and cheating. NZ’s productivity and innovation is dropping, as a lower and lower standard of tertiary has massive issues to NZ’s education brand and workforce.

      Make non NZ citizens NOT be able to sponsor in, overseas workers. (We have the Sroubek situation where you can start a company, bring in drugs, and still sponsor your wife into NZ citizenship based on working for your company). Billionaires are buying mansions in NZ, then bringing in slave service workers, for their estates, without even needing to be NZ citizens. When the slaves leave their job, they can then apply to get NZ social welfare.

      If the visa criteria is smaller and clearer, then it reduces the time taken to process visas for the migrants we need in NZ now. Immigration should just have a few clear, new, categories, and immediately stop the rest of the categories that are resulting in poor outcomes for NZ.

      They need to track the outcomes of immigration properly with updates on the visas and how the visa holder is doing and corruption of those doing the claims.

      Make immigration a positive for both the migrants who come to NZ and those who currently live here, not a way to make short term bucks for profiteering individuals and businesses and pretend NZ has better GDP as the ram raids, drugs, crime, poverty, continues.

      • Agreed, Stop the visa scam especially in Hospo. 34 Years in the industry and still getting offered $25 P/H competing with “Chefs” who literally have to be taught to make a toasted sandwich of poach eggs properly.

        • Now they have the wages down, the hours are going up too. Who wants to get up at 4 -5am (before public transport even starts) to do a 50+ hour week on minimum wages? No wonder NZ’s productivity is so low.

          Are you looking for a career in the meat/butchery industry?
          Are you wanting over a solid 50 hours of work per week?
          Are you hardworking and reliable?
          I have the job for you!
          Otahuhu based
          $21.20PH + 8% Holiday pay
          ASAP start
          Full training provided
          6am starts everyday with approx 10 hour days
          You will learn a variety of new skills such as making skilled meats, how to prep beef and lamb for market consumption and how to process live stock from start to finish.
          You will need to pass a drug test
          Must have own transport
          Must have the right to work in NZ

          Of course so many people are now working under minimum wages in NZ, maybe that is a wonderful deal. https://www.employment.govt.nz/assets/Uploads/employers-visa-stand-down-report.pdf

          Don’t forget Chorus subcontractors, Burger King and many other workforces, including the police have been on this list.

          Gosh I wonder why so many people in NZ are in poverty and don’t want to work????? It’s a mystery to the politicians it seems.

  5. Both Japan and China cut themselves off from the World for hundreds of years and the result was little progress and feudal type rule. With the right leadership this Island of 5 million could be a real Eldorado but to date niether left or right have shown the path to these riches . It all starts with education and over the years under National or Labour we have only achieved a top,of 75 percent attendance this has to improve. It was not so long ago teachers were paid the same as politicians and we’re treated with respect by the pupils. What went wrong ?

    • El Dorado that’s 20th century talk that landed us in the poo we are getting on our shoes at present. Sorry mate sit back and relax and watch while others do the struggling work.

  6. We’re also addicted to a welfare state that we can’t afford – if we’re going to keep immigration levels as low as they are now we will need to find ways to get many more of those people on jobseekers or the benefit in general into work.

    Increasing wages will help however we as a nation am also need to look at helping / forcing those capable of work but not working to work

    Before I get accused of being a heartless capitalist, I genuinely believe that fair welfare support is a fundamental part of a caring society however it does look like we may have gone too far and a rebalance might be in order.

  7. Hi Martyn

    Fantastic to be seeing some xenophilic restrictionism proper emerging.

    Interesting that your mate Treen disagrees (right?). Would be interested in having his response here or on TWG.

    Wondering where you got the image? That’s good stuff.


  8. “We need degrowth Capitalism using Think Big Economic Sovereignty to make NZ sustainable.”
    What does that even mean?
    “ACT and National point to the labour shortage pain crippling our economy and pretend importing cheaper labour is the solution when that was the problem in the first place!”
    “…crippling our economy…”
    What ‘economy’ are you meaning specifically? Serious question. What. Economy. ? . What economy earns our foreign exchange? The foreign money we use to buy stuff and things with that keeps domestic financial wheels turning. Please be specific because I’m hugely interested in what your answer might be.
    ” We are addicted to hyper tourism, property speculation and a low wage economy by using international labour flows.”
    No, we’re not. That shit was forced upon us because ‘that shit’ is as a result of agri-money laundering. How else does one pretend to explain where all that money comes from that seems to roll in from a mysterious, mythical source somewhere over there, or there, which is then excreted out of the four foreign owned banksters at grotesque interest rates and all aided and abetted by the crim’s down at the RBNZ? It’s death cult capitalism marketed by the fucking limp dick Kiwi mafia in my opinion.
    “The bitter harvest of user pays is biting us now and all the right have to offer as a solution is more cheap labour!”
    That’s because the Right are in deep shit. They must be shitting bricks as I write. They’ll be frantically trying to concoct a bullshit story for every crooked occasion to explain #A Where our agri-money i.e. our primary industry money, our ONLY primary industry went and goes, then comes back from and #B How to explain that same question which spans more than 140 years of refrigerated meat shipping to affluent European markets. Aye Boys?
    ” The Greens mumble about sustainable population rates but are culturally held hostage to migrant rights above all so while less economically chained to using foreign labour to drive down wages, they are identity politics wise bound to open migration.”
    The Greens have no idea what the fuck they’re talking about. They had an HSBC apologist now done for and now they have a sole, cunt word reclaimer struggling with what ‘steady as she goes’ means. The Green Party should be all over our farmers like a rash to aid and persuade our farmers to become organic, sustainable and regenerative as a matter of a national and global emergency. Does Marama Davidson even know that farms are usually flattish and green? That our farms are where our money comes from? And our food?
    ” Increasingly Isolationism becomes a more demanding reality, this is NZ First political territory and if articulated by Winston could have enormous political milage at the ballot box.”
    Jesus wept. When will people stop talking about winston Machiavellian Traitor peters as if he’s relevant? His job’s been done. He ran a game of deflection. He’s spouted drivel for years. He’s the gaffer tape over the cracks in the wall paper of lies spanning forty years. I wish he’d just shrivel off. Preferably after he explains what he was talking to don brash about in that infamous photograph outside that cafe all those years ago.
    All we have to do is to do everything completely different in a polar opposite sort of way immediately.
    Everything you think you know politically, and consequently economically, is wrong. Literally everything almost every politician tells you is a lie. The only person you can believe is either your cat or your dog and even then, get it in writing.

    • “ACT and National point to the labour shortage pain crippling our economy and pretend importing cheaper labour is the solution when that was the problem in the first place!”
      “…crippling our economy…”

      Yes that was what happened.

        • Now I know you’re talking through a hole in your arse kraut.

          They dont want to work for shitty employers who pay shitty wages and provide shitty conditions in casual, part-time insecure seasonal jobs. You’ll find that the industries that are moaning the most are these shitty employers.

          • And remember . To screw with the unemployment number. 1 hour of work means that you are employed.
            That’s how you get a low unemployment rate!

            The real unemployment figure is 11.1%.

  9. Talking to a Malaysian immigrant who has just turned 65 and eligible for the NZ Super.Great timing arrived just over 10 years ago after being rejected by Australia(not enough points).
    Only has PR ,as he wants to retain his Malaysian citizenship.Malaysia does NOT allow dual citizenship.

    How the pension is available without citizenship here,is astounding.He is a very happy man.

    • In Asia they speak in wonder about NZ, and say, ‘it’s the government that gives you free money!”.

      Sadly the money is not earned by the government it’s from the Kiwis who pay their taxes for the government to give out free money to non citizens. Of course non citizens and new citizens are happy with all the freebies they receive!!! No other nation is so foolish and self hating.

    • Yes I know a chinese landlord accountant came here worked a while bought a house and returned to Hong Kong but he remains on the payroll of his mates company doing a little bit of remote work (not really) so he can retire here on full super.

      • The ‘leftie’ darlings of media and economists often have elderly migrant parents or relatives (Chinese, Indian and UK) in the background, now on NZ pensions.

        Work it out!!!

        The majority of the lefty ‘economists’ influencing migrant and poverty, are actually adding to it, by adding in so many migrant pensioners including their own, who will be a massive burden to youth taxpayers for their pensions, aged and health care needs.

        In the opposite of fairness, they then propose to means test NZ citizens born and living here who paid taxes in NZ all their lives who will now apparently not get a pension (if they ‘earn too much)’, while the leftie’s migrant parents and those who are on low wages pay no taxes and are often wealthy get a free pension! Then they wonder why the NZ professionals are leaving NZ! Can they fuck us over any more, after making youth pay for student loans and user pays galore. They they give away our pensions (just like the water and everything else).




        There are now more Asian pensioners receiving a pension in NZ than Maori and Pacific Island pensioners and growing.

        Pensions in NZ are the biggest social spend in NZ.

        The idea of immigration was to bring more prosperity to existing NZer’s instead their pathetic policy, egged on by those who personally benefit, bought hundreds of thousands of low waged or no income migrants (with money), with many dependants who now receive a free pension and health care, adding to NZ’s pension burden not stopping it.

        People on minimum and low wages with children currently contribute no income taxes at all with all the subsidies – so the strategy is a massive failure in every avenue from taxes, skills, productivity, pensions, health care, housing, migrant satisfaction working in NZ.

        Instead of making it fair by not allowing migrants to come and get free pensions, education and health care, which has become a Ponzi and stupid, massive, waste of other taxpayers money, our failed low/no wage, migrant immigration policy made our social services debts worse.

        The wasted money could have been used to help NZ citizens who are in poverty, disabled or improve health care – instead all the other social services are being run down by our population explosion of high, social needs people.

        Funny enough, nothing about stopping migrant parents getting pensions in any lefty thinking instead the government just allowed the ability for a whole lot more pensioners in the recent one off resident visas which had no age or English speaking criteria!

  10. I do see a resurgence amongst workers, particularly in entry level jobs, to keep working in the same role for longer now than has previously been the case, and I do see this as a sign of the times, in particular as a result of the Covid-19 pandemic and the obvious effects it has had on New Zealand due to its isolation, geographically, from the rest of the world.

    I do believe that there are other factors involved in this trend, such as higher petrol pump prices and rental prices.

  11. Labour let 200k have residency for no good reason. Even Luxon would find it hard to justify that stupid decision but I can’t help but think out of all the dog parties Labour might be slightly less of a mongrel.

  12. To steal from Sukarno, ‘guided’ immigration, and immense increase in funds for needed skills education. Medicine down.

    As long as it doesn’t aggravate housing and employment problems I’m all for unskilled immigration. Our ideal is/was ‘the fair go’. Refugee intake should be much higher for instance. And more ten pound poms, though from every country. Of course the foundation of that is to give Maori a fair deal.

  13. Woah Martyn!
    Restricting immigration to uplift your own country’s poor?
    Tight borders?

    You’re sounding more like Trump every day!

    Whatever happened to kumbaya open borders and international socialism?


  14. NACT would flood N.Z. with $4 an hour immigrants. No wonder kiwis don’t want to work for that.

    Beat that.

  15. As a general rule, agree with you about low wage economy etc but I think you are all missing the point.

    “Nobody wants to work any more” is a true statement. Not just ‘nobody wants to work anymore” in difficult jobs for low wages.

    My daughter gets $22.50 an hour I think at 16 (was getting it at 15) working in a Stationary shop on the weekends. There’s heaps of work, its just down the road but she has to constantly muck them around humming and harring/ Every month I hear about how she is looking to go somewhere else so I just told her straight, you wont get a better job to see you through school and Uni. You dont work overly hard, have variety, are well paid for your age and it’s convenient and available.

    My husbands small company has a pivotal role that has traditionally been done by a new graduate. 7 years ago, it paid $40K and it was varying 40 hours starting at 8 and going through to about 5.40 some days because of the particular demands of the business. On the odd occasion, a bit of weekend work was required as well.

    It’s very busy 8 months of the year and is a full on but varied job in a good location and nice offices. Graduates used to stay 2 – 3 years. Now the pay is $60K, the graduates all want to work from home at least 3 days a week (hard to do in this particular job) and seem averse to working the full 40 hours. They stay less than a year on average.

    The latest has just resigned. Pay may need to go to $53K in order to get someone who doesnt mind coming into the office to work. Last incumbent screwed everything up by repeatedly not taking care of time sensitive details (because while at home wasnt doing the job) and was gobsmacked when told she would have to go into the office on a Sunday to sort out a mess she had made ready for paying clients at 8am on Monday. Her words – “but its Sunday, you cant make me work on the weekend”. And no, my husband didnt get angry with her or put her down, merely told her the problem needed to be fixed before Monday.

    In any event, who do you think drove 40kms into the office and fixed it all, one guess – it wasnt the employee who caused the problem.

    This is the 3rd graduate he has had in recent years and they are all the same and getting worse. Particularly the girls, the entitlement seems to drip off them. I think people understimate how polarised our kids are becoming due to all the identarian crap they are exposed to and a general laziness that sets in due to overuse of social media and screen time and parents like us, who over indulge them!. He has had dramas about veganism and pronouns whilst being forced to watch productivity decline and having to explain the basics of life like how and where to post a letter (I kid you not), why we pay taxes and how the tax rates work and the best one, how sick leave isnt part of annual leave. And we are talking about 20 – 24 year olds here, not 16 year olds.

    So AFAIK, there is a problem in the Wellington region with people who dont want to work. Employers are putting up with a lot. From what I hear from him via Managers in Auckland, it is becoming a problem there too in recent months.

  16. I agree importing cheap labor isn’t a solution so how else are we going to provide for our elderly with fewer and fewer workers in each successive generation. Every cohort has decreasing fertility rates even Maori. You have to find a solution to this or quality of life will decrease which is pretty grim for some of our elderly already.
    It’s a real pickle that Neo Libs find themselves in and they have no answer for it themselves.

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