You do get the feeling with some that the mere whisper of co-governance is such a threat to their fragile sense of identity that they just scream hate at it without even understanding what is being discussed.
How dumb angry are banjo twanging Groundswell anti 3 water rednecks?
They didn’t even bother reading the bloody legislation…
Groundswell co-founders haven’t read Three Waters bill they’re against
The co-founders of Groundswell admit they have not read the Three Waters legislation they are so vehemently against.
…they hate the idea of sharing with Māori sooooooooooo much that they haven’t even read the laws they are protesting against because this entire 2 Waters fiasco has been about our petty racism against Māori, it hasn’t been about genuine concerns over water management.
This is a fucking infrastructure bill, not a Malcolm X socialist theft of water for Maaaaaaoree.
My criticisms of 3 Waters is as follows:
- Should have seized all the water assets under the Public Works ACT and nationalised water
- Should have given Māori the right to always oppose any attempt to privatise water no matter what National and ACT try.
- Should have stopped all foreign water bottling operations.
- Should empower Councils to fine farmers more for cow piss in our water.
What its most hilarious about this, is that we are only having this co-governance debate because John Key sold 49% of our hydro assets thus putting a direct value on the water that empowers those hydro assets calling into question Māori property rights over water!
This debate wouldn’t be required if Key hadn’t crossed the red line of selling off hydro assets!
What Labour have attempted here is a means to settle the water ownership issue without going to Court because let’s be very clear what its actually at stake here, if Māori don’t get their co-governance in 3 Waters, they are going to go back to the Waiting Tribunal and demand the issue be heard there and that will be far more damaging in the long run than the decency of what 3 Waters proposes.
The fear of a brown planet that seems to rule so many Kiwis is difficult to get angry at when they are so busy fighting shadows they don’t seem to understand.
There are lots of reasons for you to be angry when it comes to water.
You should be angry at the open immigration used to falsely inflate our GDP without funding the necessary infrastructure.
You should be angry at feckless councils who haven’t invested into water infrastructure.
You should be angry farmers can cow piss and pollute our water.
You should be angry at Governments who allow foreign water bottling plants despite water running low on a heating planet.
You should be angry John Key privatised 49% of our hydro assets while giving investors taxpayer funded sweeteners all to fund a $400million irrigation slush fund for corporate farming to intensify cow herds which in turn lifted our climate crisis gases WHILE polluting and stealing more water.
Being angry at the solution to all those issues seems misplaced.
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sorry but parcelling public assets into ‘saleable packages’ attractive to overseas investors is a recipe for disaster whoever gets to administer it…the bribes will flow and the desired (privatisation) result will be achieved…
it’s not about race (or shouldn’t be) it’s about securing national assets and 3 waters makes that dubious at best.
+1
The prospect of this being a stepping stone to privatisation is the real concern here for the left.
Cannot trust any of our right wing parties (ie all of them)
Agree with you Jase. Friends of mine in Christchurch are LIVID, that Cloud Ocean Water privatized aquifer drinking water. Apparently, Cloud Ocean Water bought the water rights of the Belfast Freezing works.
A cursory Google search:
Cloud Ocean Water has consent from Environment Canterbury to take up to 4,320 cubic metres a day of water from the West Melton aquifer, an annual volume of 1,577million cubic metres. This consent has been in place since 1994 and was previously used by a wool scouring company.
Is this not PRIVATISING water?
This water is going overseas and being sold. Where does the income from this go? Is there GST paid on it?
Wouldn’t a Treaty-style Partnership use of water for the benefits of Tangata Whenua, and Tangata Pakeha be a better solution than selling water rights to the open market corporates?
Is it because the “co-owners” will be Maori? Is it the inherent racism of the corporate class in NZ?
Surely, it would be better to co-own the resource with Maori, than have the resource in the hands of ? ??
It’s like privatising the to water resources to “mum and dad investors”, just like John Key did with state–owned energy companies? https://www.interest.co.nz/news/58248/new-zealand-mum-and-dad-investors-number-one-priority-pm-key-when-it-comes-soe-share
At least it stays in New Zealand hands, rather than overseas corporations
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/corporations-grabbing-land-and-water-overseas/
But, water’s a state owned asset….. for the moment.
in NZ ‘mom n pop’ investors are rarer than hens teeth…kiwis invest in property NOT in NZ.
And yet the Labour Government is still pushing this despite wide spread concerns
Without clean water, we, as a species, will cease to exist…it needs to be sorted out ….National and many councils around the country are not capable and have a short term profit driven at any cost mentality..
Kiwis should thank their lucky stars that we have a government that actually has the balls and cares enough to do something about it…
‘N.Z clean green’ has been our marketing brand. That simply does currently not stack up.
Lie to the world and you end up with no credibility !! The goose that lays the golden egg is killed.
End of story!
Of course they are it’s another example of their secret agenda.
You sound like an eyes wide shut paid up member of Groundswil. How can a Bill before Parliament be part of a ‘secret agenda’?
Haha, it’ll be a cold day in hell before you’ll get one over wee Bob, aom… oh wait, you just did.
Simply because none of this was made public until after the election like a swag of things.
Presumably therefore you know every bill before parliament if these bills were part of a secret agenda?
Good heavens Bert really?
Good heavens is no defense, you just make shit up, come on Bob, give it a rest.
Not the solution.
Maori “ownership”of water needs to be decided in the correct forum The Waitangi Tribunal.
Open transparent and legal.
This radical interpretation of of the Treaty is not constitutionally valid.
It is an arrogant entitled asset grab( Of course Maori WILL PRIVATISE water ..Duh!!)
It will create more problems than it will solve.
It is a lie built on lies.
And centralization will not work.
All ratepayers know that.
We will all end up paying for something we already own.
It unjustifiably anti democracy.
And as a result we will have National governments for 3 terms.
The resident banjo twanger has spoken.
I felt 3 Waters sounded wrong when it was first introduced then 60 out of 67 councils including Labour led councils like Chch and Auckland said it was bad news so I feel my thoughts were correct. It seems to be a underhanded way of gaining control of a vital asset and using it as a gift to Maori to get their vote and expand the buracrats that control the asset who owe their job to Labour being in control.
I have travelled the country enough to know there are problem areas with water quality but this is no excuse to take all assets from both good and bad just because they can.
I think at this point the election next year will be won or lost on 3 Waters ,crime , health especially mental health and housing wether buying or renting which feeds into poverty
What’s all this crap about taking assets. It would be a bit hard to move catchment areas, reservoirs, sewerage ponds and whatever else is associated with 3 Waters. Get a life. Under Council ownership there are numerous ticket-clippers chronic underfunding incompetence and God knows what other problems. Do we need the plague under the current disjointed system before Government takes action to resolve a shitfest of problems that will predictably lead to privatisation, or worse still, PPPs without some sort of change.
Chch council may not be perfect but at least they are contactable which is more than Wellington bureaucrats are. Water and health are both being taken from local control and given to the same group of people who are running kiwibuild.
I read an interesting article in the Australian. To summarise, it says:
Labour hasnt been open and honest about its co governance intentions and the implication of Maori placing a levy on water and hence rednecks havent been honest about their true concerns with 3 Waters. Sounds about right to me.
My issues with 3 Waters: – Cant see anyway that it is efficient and I dont trust this govt to have come up with a robust cost effective solution just because —- housing, hospitals, infrastructure – yeah. Many other alternatives not explored, Scottish comparator was similar on population grounds but distribution and network very different. Also havent considered source water in their calculations.
As a ratepayer who is in a well run council, we are looking at a $2K a year rise. And Maori may have the right to take a levy (tax free at that) just because – yeah/nah to any group who is going to add to the cost.
Co governance is incredibly undemocratic. It is not based on either suffrage or equal suffrage.
We need more local governance and more representative democracy not less. Also not at all opposed to co governance but how about 50/50 co-governance of locally elected people including Maori. That way we can vote them in or out and the local area will decide performance particularly if they are not allowed to run on party tickets. (Hold up, isnt that what we have now except its 100% local people!)
Also, you will likely have noticed that the NZ people were never consulted on this? Maori were extensively but what the rest of us got was advertising and disinformation via a captured media. Stuff’s summer series every week, sometimes 3 times a week on Knackered water networks, stagnant Lake Ellesmore or munted braided rivers. All done to counter the Stop 3 Waters campaign and support our NZ on Air aims. What about the X number of thousand people getting water borne illnesses each year? Utter disinformation.
Finally the biggest threat of all. The upcoming local government review.
Many district councils will have a third of their function stripped away from them and lose economies of scale so other services will necessarily get more expensive, some small ones may not be able to function. Is this good? Is this fair?
But that’s why the govt plans a review of local government following on from 3 Waters? Suddenly 1/2 the District Councils will be gone and amalgamated resulting in you guessed it – less representative democracy. How about in 3 or 4 years, we then restructure them into 4 super entities called Taumata? Arowai and we can hand all local government over to unelected boards that are 50% co governed.
We are a multi cultural country founded on the principles of equal suffrage. Why is this being made about race? Why not call a spade a spade and call this constitutional change by stealth. Democracy is so 20th Century….
And even worse, the vast majority of poor and middle income brown people will end up paying a lot more in rent and rates. (And most other NZers as well). The property investors will tack $50 a week on to rents to cover this cost.
Forget race, think class and how we build and maintain robust communities for all New Zealanders.
We should be beefing up local services and
Well said.
Spot on Fantail.
So calling out racism is now in itself racism according to the left? uh oh ok
Yes you are correct XXX.
Or the right.
So when you yourself use BLM as an argument and you being hard right given you think the Capitol Insurrection was just an opportunity for a few people to take a few selfies and put them on social media, how is that not racist, or is it right wing denial? uh oh ok
How’s that brown planet looking so far bomber? Somalia, Uganda, Zimbabwe, Yemen, etc etc
all shit holes 🙂
what the fuck is your malfunction?
Unkind to banjos. But perhaps our election will be compared to the Duelling Banjos playoff and the election will provide Deliverance.
Very clever Greywarbler enjoyed your post.
Thanks Bob – I enjoy your Bert and Ernie combo. Brings life to otherwise sad prognostications.
Starring Bert…Reynolds?
Must be your turn for changing the nappies Adolf.
cabbage can barely change his own pampers bert.
Are they in court for corruption like Labour and NZF, National and the moaning Maori parties?
Arrrh Nah. They’re just poor pakeha farmers and workers worried about their jobs and businesses.
Yes no farmers New Zealanders living in caves.
100% Tane – For the first time we agree!
If everyone greeted the morning to the sound of a banjo the world would be a happier place.
Loved that Badger I smiled on reading your post, widely.
Redneck cousin botherers… oh wait?
Careful Slobber Bob will be smiling widely at your post.
“Dr Cindy” to you hillbilly goat f$&+@ers!
3 waters is nothing about sale of water assets and everything about the control of those assets. I can’t see why Bomber and others can’t (or won’t) see that public ownership isn’t worth a tin of the proverbial if it doesn’t come with public control. Control where 15% of the population have the same voting rights as the other 85% simply won’t cut the mustard. If that makes me a “banjo twanging Groundswell anti 3 water redneck” then that is a label I will wear with pride.
Sorry… probably the phrase “the same voting rights” should be changed to “different voting rights” for clarity. The net result is 15% of the population has a vastly disproportionate ability to control an asset that 100% of the population paid for.
It is far better if 1% has a vastly disproportionate ability to control the asset.
So sell it. Sell it all to overseas banks and fuel companies. The money for it can be given to the 100% of the population that paid for it.
What are the criteria for success with 3 Waters?
How will we know how well it’s performing?
Why ban exporting bottled water. Its nothing volume wise.. driven down the West Coast lately and see how much fresh water flows into the sea each day!
maninblack, the difference is NZ shit polluted surface water, and clean filtered through rock for 100s of years aquifer water.
People ignored (and Cancelled) by the political media groups will express them selves in different ways.
Frustrated they won’t always use the system thats blanking them.
It’s interesting how ground swell was reported protesting SNAs, as compared to Maori protesting the same thing.
Maori protests were reported, matter of fact which is good.With non of the smear placed on the banjo playing ground swill.
The farm management Overseer system, clearly had major proplems, but no one was interested.
Don’t think health workers are happy either, basically the working class are going off,the government that calls itself Labour.
Who needs them, the P.MC is doing fine.And there maxist friends from university .
Totally with you on the selective smearing of Groundswell by media (including this column). The photo of the sign on the tractor is a good case in point. It was not an approved message (Groundswell provided a list of approved sign messages prior to the protest), but as Mr Minto will no doubt concur it is impossible to control all the messaging in a massive street protest – which the Groundswell movement surely was. It was a massive uprising of working-class people who feel disenfranchised by the elites, only they came from the small towns and countryside – not from the cities.
“They didn’t even bother reading the bloody legislation…” to be fair Bomber most of the MPs voting on this won’t have read it either
Good observation Fred.
Yes Martyn you are probably correct but you seem to scream hate every time Groundswell is mentioned.
I don’t see why Māori have anything to do with 3 waters in the first place….co governance can not exist…The treaty is a surrender document and made them British citizens with all the benefits…great for the slaves…freedom…It’s all a scam …the same as global cooling , warming , changing , or what ever…This duel governance needs to be nipped in the bud now before the touchy-feely crowd get some traction…ACT , National here we come…
slow day in the retirement home then rob? Whats your next complaint going to be? that the tapioca is overcooked?
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