Poto Williams & Police Commissioner embark upon gang crackdown that will probably make things worse (why drive by shootings are the least of our worries)

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The current crack down and arrests of gang members by the Police is not the great sweeping well thought out counter strike it’s currently being sold as.

What the Police are doing is a reactionary policing action where cops have simply identified Sergeant at Arms and kicked in doors to find guns and take the opportunity to privately talk to enforcers within the gangs in a desperate attempt to gain intelligence and de-escalate.

The problem is that the dynamics of what are actually happening here are well beyond the scope of this current Policing action.

What is happening are unpatched 501 syndicates are pulling strings behind the scenes to escalate conflict between the Killer Beez and Tribesmen in an attempt to gain meth importation from South American Cartels smuggled straight across the border.

That’s a half billion dollar meth trade.

Kicking in doors to warn everyone to play nice or there’s more Police attention coming won’t diminish the fact South American Cartels now see NZ as a viable market and they are actively working with 501 syndicates to gain access to that market.

Kicking in doors and roughing up local enforcers misses the far greater forces at play here and seems almost child like in its optimism.

The fact that all Police have is a list of names to kick in suggests this is a fishing expedition, not a surgical strike.

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The danger to us as NZers is that the South American Cartels now see NZ as a legitimate market and their uber violence and counter-terrorism sophistication will cut through local law like a laser through butter.

THAT is why this requires far more strategy and consideration than this knee jerk response at containment.

There are far worse things than dive by shootings.

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67 COMMENTS

  1. I would thinking there is absolutely nothing wrong with “kicking in doors” and confiscating illegal firearms ( I assuming this is within the law) It’s a long road but the more you can confiscate the better. Surely that would make a gun register more workable over the long run.

    • The gun register is a fantasy solution, an easier but ineffective alternative to hard Police work dealing with crims.

      It won’t make a difference – gun crime didn’t go up when we got rid of the old one, in fact it continued to fall. A register relies on: a gun actually being registered (crooks don’t bother); the register being accurate (Police couldn’t accurately register the 15000 E-cat firearms); the serial number being present (most illegal firearms now have it removed already; that will increase). And it only works after a crime, by definition

      It’s coming, it’ll cost money, it won’t help. But it’ll be a ‘feel good’ thing for Govt and Police to tout.

      In Australia, gun thefts are soaring despite the register. Crims already have MSSAs and handguns here in NZ despite these having always been registered – maybe they come into the country illicitly? We have dog and car registration and that doesn’t seem to help.

      Maybe the money this will cost, and that the buyback cost, would have a better return if invested in Police and policing?

      • oscar, registration of cars works fine here and around the world it facilitates tracking of sales (both original and subsequent) and CURRENT ownership, if you make possession of an unregistered firearm mandatory prison, no arguments you do time..then that should help reduce if not eliminate the problem…harm reduction is better than no cure ask any doctor, of course a cure would be optimum but sometimes you have to settle.

        and threatening ‘law abiding’ gun owners will commit criminal acts if laws they don’t like are passed…undermines the ‘law abiding gun owner’ line kinda, dunnit? yeah it does.

        • Don’t see anywhere I suggested Licenced Firearms Owners will commit crime in response to a law they don’t like, so lets leave the straw-men out of the discussion.

          Just make possession of a firearm by an *unlicenced* person the crime you target, easier and simpler and cheaper and more effective going by the evidence from NZ’s own history.

          Registration of cars doesn’t significantly stop speeding, the road toll, car thefts. And that’s with something that can effectively be identified. Registration of dogs didnt help with dog attacks either.

          Its a pity – the money will be burned on the ‘feel-good’ project, Licenced Owners will overwhelmingly comply, there will be negligible impact on gun crime, and the opportunity to invest the money more wisely will be lost.

          • several gun rights activists have suggested selling on the black market rather than giving up their semi auto dick extensions so no not a ‘straw man’

            is the ‘possession’ of child porn a crime?

            registration of cars doesn’t ‘prevent’ crime no one said it does but it’s an aid in identifying criminals…

            • If you’re choosing to misinterpret something I’ve written because you’re somewhat feeble-minded. Yes, a small minority of licenced firearms owners may sell to the black market, in the same way as some Police officers will shoot their wives, rape their colleagues, sell information to gangs or plant evidence to frame the innocent. These people are a small minority, in case of firearms owners those that do were probably criminals who were granted licences due to poor vetting by the Police.

              As you don’t seem to understand, here’s another explanation for you. When the buyback ended, some people kept their banned items, possibly because they hoped a new government would reverse the poorly thought out laws & their guns would be legal again, others may have not considered the amounts offered adequate, others may not have wanted to see their prized possessions, historic items or family heirlooms destroyed, so for whatever reason they had, they kept & hid their guns and technically became “criminals” (in the same way anyone who buys or uses Marijuana is a criminal under the misuse of drugs act).

              These guns are now illegal and can not be sold legally. The grey market is were illegal items are sold to people for legal purposes ie a friend doesn’t have a licence (can’t afford one or has past brushes with the law etc) but wants to go hunting to feed his family, so someone gives or sells them a firearm. The black market is where illegal things like drugs & guns are sold for illegal purposes ie needing a gun to protect your drug stash. People trading in this market are real criminals & have to be careful with who they trade, otherwise they get reported or do deals with undercover officers. All illegal guns have the potential to seep into this market regardless of source (stolen, illegally imported, lost or whatever), but few non-criminal would have the connections to trade here, and those who try are likely to end up the victim of a crime rather than the perpetrator.

              As to your other comment, given a limited budget & resources, who would you rather the Police targeted a hippy smoking some weed or a gang member toting a machine gun with 200kg of meth in his car boot?

        • Registration works fine for vehicles? Does it? Really?

          It works fine as far as a taxation system, but has little effect of vehicle related crime. Stealing a car? Gone in 60 seconds. Stealing fuel? Use a stolen plate? Committing a crime? Use a stolen car.

          Do you know anyone whose had a vehicle stolen? Did they get it back? Were the perpetrators caught? I had a vehicle stolen & when I caught up with the people who had it, it had a new plate (from a trailer I think) & looked very different. The Police did nothing I didn’t initiate and if I’d done nothing, opening a file would have been the end of the matter. As it was, there was some small satisfaction in see the offender dragged out of his house in his socks on a sunny Sunday morning by multiple armed officers, but that was it.

          If registration is a cure, it is a most ineffective but expensive one, similar to amputating both your legs because you broke your arm playing rugby.

          Interestingly the technology is available to mount registration plate cameras in all Police cars, these could be linked in to issues alerts in real time if a vehicle was stolen, who the owner was, outstanding arrest warrants, gang connections, likelihood of weapons, expired WOF or rego etc. It could be fitted & would be relatively effective at detecting vehicle related crime, but it currently isn’t, why is that?

          • so no sex offenders register necessary for the reasons you cite dick?

            the failures of enforcement doesn’t mean registration is a bad idea, it just means enforcement is shit.

            • So your solution to crime is to pile 500 million dollars up & set it on fire is it?

              Now cite a real world example where firearms registration has solved a crime that isn’t on CSI or NCIS?

            • Your analogy is a fallacy, but inadvertently reveals what has worked well – the sex offenders register is the about the *individual*, and that’s the successful system we moved to for Firearms Licences when we got rid of the general firearms’ register originally – and gun crime continued to fall

              • registration works everywhere except your beloved USA….ask a swiss, ask a norwegian, ask a finn…all gun toting countries…with strong military service and hunting traditions.

                as for sex offenders being individuals the register helps track their whereabouts gun registers track the whereabouts of individual weapons

                • Registration works nowhere, we’re still wait for you to cite an example where a firearms registry has solved an actual crime.

                  Also you seem obsessed with the sex offenders register, did you want your name removed or something?

                  As to your false idea that a firearms register will track individual firearms, here’s an example of how it will work…

                  Bob has no guns, 5 days later Bob purchases 10 guns, Bob is now required to register those firearms with 30 days of his purchases, 15 days later, how many guns do the Police think Bob has?

                  Alternatively Bob has an A-Cat firearms licence, Police assume Bob will have firearms, if Bob has 10 guns, how many guns can Bob fire at one time? 1

                  Steve is a member of the Killer Beez recreational club, Steve doesn’t have a firearms licence, Steve can’t get a firearms licence due to a history of drug dealing & violent assaults. How many guns does Steve have? How many guns will Steve register?

                  • so you judge the ‘respectable gun owning’ community by the standards of the killer bees dick.

                    any ‘respectable gunowner’ would go out of his way to comply with the legislation of their govt…or are gunowners above the law?

                    • Armed criminals are the problem, not law abiding firearms owners, hence the continual targeting of law abiding firearms by increased restrictions & poorly thought out laws, isn’t dealing with the problem. It’s the equivalent of you with your semi-auto, spraying around in a crowded church, hoping you’ll hit an actual criminal, not realizing that most criminals aren’t generally in church on a Sunday morning.

                • Hey Gagarin, here’s a story from Norway for you, looks like they are really on top of the illegal weapons situation…

                  “Hans Sverre Sjøvold, a former chief of police in Oslo, resigned in disgrace on Thursday as head of Norway’s police intelligence agency PST. Sjøvold has been at the center of a scandal over his illegal possession of weapons privately, and how he allegedly used subordinates to help him get rid of them.”

                  https://www.newsinenglish.no/2022/06/02/pst-boss-quits-under-pressure/

                • Oh Gagarin, here’s another story from Norway (who have 2 more guns per 100 people than New Zealand), looks like their Police have a good handle on controlling illegal weapons (by selling them).

                  “Norwegian police have revealed a fairly brisk illegal weapons trade, after finding and seizing stashes of more than 2,000 firearms believed to stem from illegal sales. Several of the nearly 70 people charged in the case so far have worked within the armed forces or the police themselves.”

                  https://www.newsinenglish.no/2019/05/22/police-military-tied-to-weapon-scandal/

      • I wasn’t suggesting the police shouldn’t do hard work dealing with crime. Why do you think supported kicking in doors? There always seems to be a reason not to try things, but it seemed the less unregistered guns in existence the better. Register aside, guns (unlike cars) are supposed to be stored in an unworkable state ( bolt gone etc), so in terms of a theft for use comparison, a bit different ( if gun owners are storing them properly)

        • Semi-autos, pump & lever action firearms are generally stored in working condition, just not loaded. The thing with security is that it prevents casually thefts, people who really want a safe opened, just wait for the owner. Most people will open a safe after their wife or child loses their second finger. Registration does nothing, it is merely a sop for morons, a comfort blanket for the scared so it looks like a Government has actually done something or than waste a few $100 million. Can you think of better uses for a few $100 million in a land overflowing with poverty & crises?

          • Id suggest many semi autos etc are stored with a form of slow down device fitted ie trigger locks, locks thru the mechanisms etc. even when in safes. Or at least the majority I know/see are.

            Totaly agree on the register, a huge waste of time and money that should be used for programs that will have a positive outcome.

            • That seems a much better approach – the cost of registration (and, I’d suggest, the so-called ‘buy-back’) could have been a lot more effective if invested in security and policing of that security. Make all semi-auto centrefires (and centrefire magazines over say 10 rounds) E-Category if need be. Support even better security measures and more frequent checks.

              Focus on the object might get headlines, cant see it helping with bottom-lines. But ‘Keeping Up Appearances’ seems to be the obsession of politicians, whatever their ilk

            • At $30-40 for a trigger lock per gun is a waste of money unless you leave the firearms lying around for kids to play with (not suggested). If they’re locked in a safe, another lock isn’t going to change anything, if your safe is breached, your guns are gone & an angle grinders/bolt cutters can be used at leisure. All they do is slow you down and add another key to carry or combination to remember. The ammo is locked up separately so without further actions, they are just inert lumps of metal, wood & plastic.

              It doesn’t matter how strong a safe or lock is, if a criminal has a pair of secateurs & the will to use them, where burglary fails, home invasion succeeds, then we are all less safe or we build prisons for ourselves to cower in.

            • how about we cut the BS and admit there is no practical legal use for semi-autos in NZ, I’ve asked several times and no one can come up with one..useless for target shooting and hunting so don’t even try….let’s just deep six ’em and encourage people to put in the hard yards and learn to shoot not spray.

              • How about you you admit you know nothing about the subject, otherwise you’d realize there has been an explosion in pest species such as wallabies, deer & goats due to the removal of the most effective tool to deal with large groups of pests.

                Semi-autos are great for target shooting too, try competing in a 3-gun or IPSC competition with a bolt-action and see how well you do.

                You could just admit you hate all firearms (except for those in the hands of the Police or military because they are only used to kill bad people) and that you would like to see them all banned so only criminals can use them to shoot up peaceful neighbourhoods.

                https://www.nzherald.co.nz/rotorua-daily-post/news/photo-showing-paddock-full-of-wallabies-in-rotorua-sparks-conversation-about-the-pest/TY6OUQAXWHDS2U5CSEUXW4HM2M/

                • how about you admit you don’t like pushback from someone who does have an idea what they’re talking about….
                  2 words ‘barrel creep’

                  check my previous posts, I won’t say read as you clearly have difficulty, get a mate to run their finger under the words for you
                  I have on NUMEROUS occasions advocated for bolt action rifles and even possibly handguns for home defence..
                  your forthcoming apology will be noted but not accepted.

                  • I know that you have some idea about what you are talking about, you may currently even own firearms now (or at least have done in the past), this sadly puts you in the Fudd category, while my primary purpose is to oppose any attempts at civilian disarmament, which I believe has the potential to seriously undermine the strength of our democracy. Civilian gun ownership is literally the power of the State in the hands of the People. So I’m hardly likely to agree with your appeasement strategy am I?

                    Gun control is death by a thousand cuts to civilian gun ownership. Each little cut, new restriction, minor law change, many not effect individual shooters, but the more shooters we throw under the bus, the smaller our sport/hobby/recreation/lifestyle/work or whatever becomes and the weaker we are as a group. There are probably plenty of Fudds that still have a Model 60 or BAR in their safe not realising their old bunny gun or favourite hunting rifle was banned after 2019.

                    I may be incorrect in assuming that you’re a British immigrant so you’ll be familiar with how law abiding firearms owner have largely be eradicated (unless you own a large country estate), while the country is awash with illegal firearms from Europe. Groups of shooters happily threw other shooters under the bus, until there was almost none left, that is what we are trying to avoid here.

    • The gun register will be just a colossal waste of time & money. Criminals have angle grinders and when you’re bringing in shipments of “product” worth over $100 million a pop, do you want to protect it with a stolen WW2 revolver you cant get ammo for or a cut down 22? Just get your suppliers to add a few extra items to the container, there’s plenty of room & they are very unlikely to be searched. AKs from the Chinese or ARs from the cartels, plus handguns for everyone. Theses should be already registered if they are here legally, but if they are in criminal hands, they’ll never be registered, ever.

      All vehicles are theoretically registered, does this stop theft or use of stolen vehicles in crimes? Ram raids? Do all stolen vehicles get recovered & returned to their rightful owners? The answer is NO and it will be even worse with firearms due to the high number of illegal (“lost”, stolen or illegally imported) firearms and there is likely to be compliance issues due to past confiscations.

      https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/383309/two-arrests-over-meth-loaded-guns-found-in-shipping-container

      • forensic science trumps angle grinder.

        so let’s legalise meth cos it can be smuggled into the country…by criminals no less…muppet

        • Cite an example where registration has actually be used to solve a crime? Waiting…

          As to legalizing meth, doing so would remove billions from the pockets of criminals & enable those with addiction issues to safely seek help.

      • “The gun register will be just a colossal waste of time & money.”

        Who’s time, who’s money?

        Car rego is $109 per 1 year. Gun owner rego is only $126 per 10 years. When each gun is individually registered you are looking at around 1.2 million guns at say $109 per year giving a budget of $130million per annum to assist in controlling murder and mayhem by gun users. As far as time goes I re-registered my car on the LTSA website the other day it took all of three minutes.

        • You’re focusing on the cost which is understandable but not actually the important point – what is the *return* on that cost and is it the best use of the money? Same question for the so-called ‘buy back’.

          How does registration stop crime? The Australian experience (and NZ’s with the handgun and MSSA register) show’s it doesn’t stop supply.

          • nor do drug laws stop supply your point being oscar?
            merely because we can’t eradicate something does that mean we don’t fight it? christmas for kiddy fiddlers then.

            • We don’t register legal drugs, no, even though they can be used illegally. Leaving aside your poor analogies, any evidence from Australia of their gun register working would be useful, wouldnt it.

              Not sure I follow your repeated references to paedophiles – you’re not inferring licenced firearms owners are of a similar ilk? But, case in point – register the person, not their computer.

              As I’ve said, the register is coming. It’ll be touted but will be like Kiwibuild. Sounded good, didn’t deliver. Best we can hope for, is that the register is closer than usual Govt work, but at least doesn’t actually do harm.

              • my ‘poor analogies’ successfully counter your arguments so that says something about the weakness of your position oscar

                I suggested padeos whereabouts can be tracked by register as can guns..I never even alluded to anything else..but hey if the cap fits…

                • Calling your analogies weak, would be greatly overstating them, you are yet to cite a single example of where a firearm register has been used to solve a crime.

        • If you make registration expensive for users (and actual user is the NZ Police, not firearms owners), then you reduce compliance & without compliance, the system is even more useless.

          Cars are easy to register, they are big & have uniform numbers clearly printed on the front. Firearms have random numbers printed all over them, often in tiny characters, as a result serial numbers, model numbers, even calibres end up being recorded in “serial number” field by inexperienced officers resulting in a hopelessly inaccurate database. The current register for pistols & restricted weapons is riddled with errors & ghost guns (firearms you used to own or never owned), and people have a hard time getting them corrected, as the “recorded here shows you own an AR15…but I surrendered it at the buyback… can you prove that?… it should have been recorded by you… well it says here you still have it…”. Can you prove that you don’t have something you never owned, under the law now, the burden of proof is on firearms owners not the Police, this will only get worse as the register expands and no crimes will be solved & no one will be any safer.

          • Well sounds like the price to register a gun each year should be $200 or $500 or even a $1000 because as you say its more complicated than registering a car. You also say that gun owners are likely not to register their guns if they have to pay an annual rego – you are making the case that gun owners are not law abiding. And finally you say that guns have small numbers and they are not uniform. Cars have chassis numbers, engine numbers, number plate numbers and places like Repco and Supercheap Auto and CarJam have databases that know every last detail about all the cars in New Zealand, detailed down to the paint colour formula used . The government just has to pass a law to require all gun manufacturers who want to export into New Zealand to abide by a New Zealand gun number register system. If they don’t want to do that, no biggie. If they cant get with the program their guns don’t come into New Zealand. Once the guns are here gun nut gun importers are obliged to register every last identifying detail of the gun in the database and get the Gun Rego Number Engraved or Laser Cut onto the various working parts of the gun in great big identifying numbers and letters. (It doesn’t matter if it ruins the look of the gun or its resale value, the gun will still function to shoot pests or people).

            If an un-registered gun is used in a crime and the gun is found then both the gun manufacturer and importer have to explain how it came to be that the gun was in New Zealand un-registered. The onus is then on the manufacturer to report errant New Zealand importers and retailers.

            New Zealand has user pays taxes for these kinds of problems. Cigarette tax is collected to pay for the health costs of cigarette users and as an ambulance at the top of the cliff to stop cigarette use. Vehicle owners pay car rego to pay for the ambulance at the top of the Road Safety cliff and includes ACC collection to pay for the hospital treatment of road users involved in vehicle accidents.

            A “gun user pays tax” has to be high enough to cover the cost of a Gun Safety Authority (GSA), to cover the costs of Rego (so you don’t have as you say inexperienced cops running it, instead you have professional trained experienced gun rego personnel), cover the hospital treatment of gun shot victims, cover the cost of fighting gun user crime, cover the psychological welfare of gun victims like those from the mosque.

            Of course you will thinks its unfair but once legit gun owners are sensibly taxed they will take an interest in ensuring their favourite toys are not damaging the rest of the population.

            • Do you know why the Gun Buyback failed so badly? They went cheap & quibbled over pricing, condition etc, so what they got was a lot of rubbish guns, magazines & parts that they paid over market value for, while missing out on many of the ones they really wanted to get.

              Compliance with any law is purely voluntary, especially if it is a bad law. How many people here have breached the misuse of drugs act because they have tried weed? How many speed or run red lights? Licenced firearms owners are generally more law abiding but the more a group gets screwed over by bad laws that serve no purpose, the more the law becomes a joke, especially if it isn’t enforced. Did you see the mass arrests at the last J Day? No? But all those people were breaking the law, wah!

              Do you want to know how to get rid of all the legal firearms in New Zealand, simply & cheaply? It’s really easy, all you do is revoke all firearms licences & ban all guns in civilian hands. You could put rubbish skips outside every Police station so people could dispose of the banned items. See it is really that easy, however compliance would be woefully low and all you would have achieved is to turn all the legal firearms into illegal ones, and their owners into criminals, much like what happened with the buyback.

              The way gun control is usually pushed, is to generally make it more difficult & expensive to legally own firearms, with more hoops to jump through, more administrative costs, more expensive security etc, with the aim of reducing legal firearms ownership, sometimes people get rid of their guns, sometimes they just surrender their licence & keep their guns.

              To be effective, firearms licencing needs to be accessible & affordable, that way you have the opportunity to vet more people, check their security & know who has firearms. This is what makes it work, what makes societies safer. If it is too hard or expensive, for little or no advantage, why submit to a system, especially if there is little enforcement & the punishments for those caught & convicted of breaches are laughably low.

              With registration, the real aim is always confiscation no matter what anyone says. Registration saw the effective confiscation of almost every single E-cat, while A-cat semi-autos largely just disappeared. If they actually introduce full registration, most of the cost will be born by the taxpayer with resources coming out of the Police crime fighting budget, taking officers off the street. They will do this because they want maximum compliance, otherwise the system is even more of a waste of money than it is already. They will probably ramp up costs once the system is in place, to tightening the screws on the law abiding, but initially they will try to make it as easy as possible.

              However none of this will stop crime or make anyone any safer, but that was never the intention. It is only fools & morons that believe otherwise.

              • switzerland has high gun ownership and shit loads of hoops..and they don’t massacre each other..so yeah yank style open slather not such a good idea.

                • New Zealand has 26.3 guns in civilian hands per 100 people (Switzerland has 27.6) and we don’t massacre each other either, we had to import a foreigner to do that for us.

          • proof-marks etc are not serial numbers, dick, now you know that..

            and switzerland is a prime example of registration and hoop jumping to get a firearm…isn’t it?

            • Police officers don’t necessarily know anything about guns other than they go “bang”, so in some cases write the first number they see down, model numbers, armoury marks calibres are all numbers. Apparently with a lot of German firearms, the recycled serial numbers to meet Treaty of Versailles production restrictions, so even the serial number is not a unique identifier.

              However at the end of the day, a serial number is largely useless to solve crime unless the criminal abandons a gun registered to them that they haven’t filed the serial number off, at the scene of a crime or the victim carefully remembers the serial number of the weapon they were shot with and that was actually registered to the shooter. Still waiting for you to cite a real world case where a crime was solved using a firearms registry.

        • You, the taxpayer, will pay. Gun registration will take money away from the poor & downtrodden and waste to achieve nothing. But worse than that, it will take time & resources from the already overstretched Police. 250000 licenced firearms owners & 1.5 million gun in civilian hands, each requiring a visit, each individual gun needs to be inspected & it’s details accurately recorded in a robust & secure database (not the excel spreadsheet they currently use). Is that how you’d like your crime fighting dollars spent? Flushed down the toilet while taking actual Police officers off the street to chat with the law abiding? Safer communities? Not likely.

            • Glad your happy for the Government to waste your tax dollars or maybe you don’t actually pay tax? Fortunately for you the National / ACT Government of 2023 will slash welfare and revoke many of Labour’s flawed policies. Most likely the money earmarked for the firearms registry will be used for some actual policing of criminals.

        • “to assist in controlling murder and mayhem by gun users.”

          This is the interesting bit – can you expand on how a Register achieves that? Given Police stats show nearly all gun crime is by unlicensed people.

          • Well unlicensed gun users got their guns from somewhere – other gun users either, licensed or unlicensed. That would include unscrupulous overseas exporters, unscrupulous importers and retailers that sold to unlicensed buyers, licensed owners who died and whose family allowed the guns to enter the black market, licensed gun owners who buy guns to supply to criminals, licensed gun nuts who have too many guns and have their armoury raided by criminals, licensed gun owners that refused to participate in the gun buy back. The figure bandied around for unregistered military style semi-automatics in NZ is 150,000 – these guns were all originally imported and sold to licensed gun owners. The problem is the gun user industry has not been incentivised with a high enough rego tax and legal penalties to ensure they don’t let guns fall into the hands of criminals.

            • That’s the theory – yet firearms that are supposed to be registered keep turning up here in Police raids, maybe smuggling plays a part too. And the Australian evidence doesn’t show any gain from the register – as you suggest, its almost as if the unscrupulous aren’t bothered by it.

            • The Police didn’t need a register, they signed off on most of Tarrant’s firearm & ammo purchases. As to all the other Police failings, we covered those up, that’s why that article is in the Sydney Morning Herald, not an NZ paper.

              • AGAIN JUST BECAUSE THE COPS FUCK UP…it doesn’t negate the idea.
                bring up as many ‘examples’ as you like it doesn’t change that…now if you wanna talk about fixing our ‘keystone cops’ that’s a different issue.

                • No it just make a bad idea even worse. When you have a bad idea & then you get incompetents to implement the idea, the likely result is a complete cluster f**K. That was the reason we wanted administration of firearms licencing removed from Police control & given to an independent agency as proposed by the Royal Commission. Labour instead just created a group with the Police to carry on mishandling it.

            • How would a register have stopped the Chch terrorist? The Police knew the firearms he had, as he declared them on a form when buying ammunition.

              Vetting and background checks should have stopped him – so putting the Police resources there rather than into a glorified accounting exercise would make a lot more sense

  2. “That’s a half billion dollar meth trade.”

    So on the sleepy streets of suburbia middle class NZ where the affluent hit the pipe for fun.

    How many gazzilion dollars would that be if the cops managed to catch these cooks and crooks and then do them in court and then claim all the cash and assets?

    It would be in the police’s interest to keep this little money earner going ay?

    Arrest a few low-level players to keep the media busy and the public kinda happy by seeing that they are doing something ay?

    We’ve been here before I recks?

  3. entering a dialogue with those who reject your society isn’t gonna work, years of ‘toleration of gangs’ for whatever political reasons has let them be normalised….I was amazed that ‘gang pads’ where tolerated here, fortified camps more like…as for the ‘alternative iwi’ thesis.

    • Now if we had building codes which stipulated exactly the details and designs of buildings people lived in and met in we would have ‘gang pads’ as they are. And if fortifications, fences and whatever around houses were exactly specified, the same.
      We should specify what people should wear too, and not wear.

      Roll on North Korea.

  4. indeed let’s see some of those organising and FUNDING the import of drugs….low level dealers are infinitely replaceable….let’s see some ‘respectable’ businessmen doing hard time…never happen though will it?

  5. Worth remembering that the ‘501’ problem is one that always was easy to address, if we had a government with guts.

    Australia sends us an Australian who happened to be born in New Zealand? Send him back. Simple as. Wouldn’t have taken long to resolve the problem.

    • “Australia sends us an Australian who happened to be born in New Zealand? Send him back.”

      How does that fit with actual laws about citizenship, here and there?

    • Agreed. Just say no refuse landing rights, refuse to allow the 501s to deboard but apparently, there is some international diplomatic protocol that you can’t just abandon your nation’s citizens. However, there are several things New Zealand could do if the government has the political will they will certainly have the community support.

      New Zealand and Australia have anti-terrorism laws that state if your citizen travels overseas to fight for a known terrorist organisation (like Isis) the citizen’s right to return to their country of origin can be revoked and they have to continue on their own way in the world (Syria).

      There is a good argument that returning 501s are terrorising New Zealand neighbourhoods and in Australia they have been foot soldiers or commanders for bikie gangs. Gangsters commonly call each other soldier.

      All the New Zealand government has to do is declare all the outlaw bikie gangs in Australia (over 30 gangs) as terrorist organisations and then we can legally refuse to accept any of the 501 Terrorists Australia wants to deport our way.

      The other thing New Zealand could do is pass a law stating that New Zealand citizens travelling overseas must always abide by the laws of other countries and any failure to abide by Australian law that results in a one year jail sentence automatically causes revocation of New Zealand citizenship.

      These ideas might be undiplomatic but when dealing with Australia they only know hardball. The majority of New Zealanders will be happy with a hardball stance and the 501s will thank us for our kindness.

      If those ideas don’t work first threaten, then kick out or nationalise all the Aussie banks and keep the $4billion bank profits exported to Australia each year because after all we need the money to sort out the problems caused by these Australian trained and armed terrorists.

  6. On the subject on 501’s, is there any reason why we can’t import their criminal convictions along with them? I’m guessing once they are here in NZ, they have a clean record, so their next conviction is their first.

  7. Whenever I see a picture of Potato in her role as Supreme commander of our police force…I am overcome by a warm feeling of comfort and I go to sleep knowing we are in good hands.

  8. “not the great sweeping well thought out counter strike it’s currently being sold as.”
    This government is incapable of well thought out policy. In fact, their lack of 100 day plan after both elections is proof that they don’t think they are capable of well thought out policy either.

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