Three Waters: Government pushing on with reform plan
New Zealand’s water overhaul has seen the Government accept almost all recommendations on the Three Waters proposals from an independent working group, as it ploughs ahead with transferring authority into four new regional entities.
Good. I’m glad the Government is pushing ahead with this reform!
Our water systems are a joke!
Farmers have stolen it and polluted it for so long they believe they have a right to.
Maori have been impoverished for so long they jump at anyone with a few flash bucks to give them access to water.
City Council’s have kicked the can so far down the track in terms of upgrading their water issues that we have run out of track.
So I endorse the State just moving in and taking the entire country’s water systems under its control because the mix of incompetence and corruption is intolerable for such an important resource.
The problem however is that the 3 Waters proposal can’t answer the most important question which is will it, once implemented, be able to stop water being taken by foreign companies and can it stop water privatisation?
What is the use of water reform if it can’t guarantee in a dangerously warming planet where fresh water will become scarce that overseas interests can’t simply steal our water like they do now?
Once a country becomes dependent on us for fresh water, do you think they will allow us to stop them taking it?
I’m all fine for taking water assets and running them by the State, but are they protecting our water for us or foreign interests?
We need to halt all foreign taking of water in NZ. The planet is burning, we have the water, let’s keep it for us!
To date 3 Waters has been sold by critics as ‘stealing da water for Maaaaaaaaaaaaori’, when it’s nothing of the sort!
I like the need for ACT and National to have a super majority before they could attempt to privatise the water, but the simple truth is that ACT and National ARE SO RIGHT WING they just could never be trusted to not privatise the water.
Better that we never elect National and ACT to any position of power where. they could privatise water.
If Labour fight water reforms from a position of stopping foreign interests from taking our water and stopping privatisation, they will have a political winner for the 2023 election.
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It doesn’t matter what this government “intends” to do, it has shown itself utterly incapable of achieving any of it’s intended outcomes whilst spending insane amounts of money.
$25 Million for what equated to a voter survey as to whether spending a billion dollars on a cycle bridge is a good idea.
Here’s a hint, it isn’t. Nor is Billions for a tram to the airport.
What’s your alternative to a broken water infrastructure?
Christopher Luxon was asked about his accusations of labours needless spending in an interview with Jack Tame last week & he couldn’t come up with ounce of proof surrounding his allegation.
So the areas under government control at the moment health transport education are all run so well that we should be over the moon at them controlling water . To me it is one more sneaky way of their drive to co government.
There are problems with water but we do not need a completely new system .
Agreed.
Yes agree.
“Maori have been impoverished for so long…”
and whose fault is that? Poor income? maybe thats due to leaving school early with no quals. Poor health? maybe thats to do with diet and (lack of) exercise. smoking, drinking etc etc
whatever happened to owning the consequences of your actions?
There are poor people of other races in New Zealand too: why should they be forgotten?
If someone is of (Maori) mixed race does the level of their “impoverishment” change up/down according to their racial composition?
This obsession with the colour of someones skin as an indicator of what they deserve from the world is frankly racist and toxic
Warning planet full of brainwashed pakeha slaves
So, despite serious questions/concerns being raises by numerous councils, and ratepayer associations regarding the 3 Waters model, the Labour Government is going to push it anyhow…dickheads
Councils have been doing co governance far years.
Who are you to say councils and ratepayers have been saying this or that?
The aim of 3 waters is to fund infrastructure for the purposes of safe, secure drinking water and Maori are going to have to have management rights over their assets of it’s to be managed for all.
Umm their assets??? Since when? . No one owns the water, the water infrastructure has been paid for and built by all of us.
Maori have no more right to the water infrastructure than ANY other racial group.
This is theft!
You are consiously deciding to paint Maori as a target because you need Maori to oppresse you so that you look like the victim. Psychology, economically, politically and socially that is the wrong way of looking at water infrastructure. 🙂
Shona “No one owns the water” a meme spewed by Jonkey after his right-wing govt facilitate giving consent to foreign Chinese companies and privatizing our resources effectively taking profits and resources that belong to all NZers out of our beautiful country. And the TOW guarantees Maori water rights under article 2, when you’re ready to actually sit down get off your ‘white supremacist’ narrative and start realizing that Maori rights to water can only be good for all NZers and nationalizing our water is a patriotic duty that all NZers should embrace.
“The Second
The Queen of England agrees to protect the chiefs, the subtribes and all the people of New Zealand in the unqualified exercise of their chieftainship over their lands, villages and all their treasures. But on the other hand the chiefs of the Confederation and all the chiefs will sell land to the Queen at a price agreed to by the person owning it and by the person buying it (the latter being) appointed by the Queen as her purchase agent.”
I don’t see any mention of “water” there, Stephen. And do you really think that calling someone a “white supremacist” actually constitutes an argument?
POPE- The narrative that Shona whom you blindly defend the many insensitive comments about Maori, can only be correctly described as a ‘white supremacist’ as you (pope) and Shona have showed in these blogsites utter discontent for Maori issues continually.
Secondly pope it takes two to tango when signing an international document, and given that period of time when Maori was an oral society and writing was still a foreign concept you really think that 500 chiefs that sign the Maori version were just gonna say, ‘here take everything and lead my people to generations of suffering’?
Common man what sort of a fool thinks that? Either a person is ignorant or a ‘white supremacist’, also their is amble evidence if you like reading history which clearly you don’t indicating that Maori thought, they were strengthening their long term relationship with Pakeha example rights to ports as Maori trade was vigorous in the nineteenth century and significant tribes own or leased schooners to travel the world exporting their produce, and had to pay a custom duty in British ports but British citizens were exempted. In article 3, the Crown promised to Māori the benefits of royal protection and full citizenship. This text emphasizes equality.
Article 2
The Māori version of article 2 uses the word ‘rangatiratanga’ in promising to uphold the authority that tribes had always had over their ‘lands and taonga’. This choice of wording emphasizes status and authority.
In the English text, the Queen guaranteed to Māori the undisturbed possession of their properties, including their lands, forests, and fisheries, for as long as they wished to retain them. This text emphasizes property and ownership rights.
Here a link to our beautiful country history Warts and all, in it entirety that I paste regularly and when finished, then come back and tell me what Article 2 means??
http://www.library.auckland.ac.nz/
Some of that’s a bit hard to follow Stephen. But “white supremacist” is not an argument, it’s just a truncheon-word, like “racist”.
The sticking point is Article One. Where there is an assumed Crown ‘Prerogative’.
Which is the Executive today. Which means parliament can make legislation directed by the PMs Ministerial Cabinet.
So just imagine if, there was an upper house made up of say corporate iwi, Ngai Tahu, Tainui-Waikato, Ngati Whatua Orakei, Ngati Porou and 2 or 3 others that could afford to put up the one billion dollar buy in?
The elite brown table. Then you call see where all this is heading ay?
So fund it without this Byzantine multi level bull shit that gives 16% of the population veto rights over the rest of us
Well said Yeti.
What’s with the congrats? Cant you write your own thoughts? Maybe people that cant apply their own thoughts head ova to ‘Fakebook’ seems to cater for this level of debating.
Odd that you haven’t engaged with my point then isn’t it? Instead, you’ve offered an insult to someone in much the same way as many do on Facebook
Stephen
With regards to your somewhat churlish response – I make numerous comments on various issues on this Blog site. It’s just on this occasion I happened to agree entirely with Yeti’s succinct destruction of your post – I couldn’t have said it better, so why try?
Agreed
Hey, don’t insult the Byzantines like that. A wonderful civilization that left us some magnificent artistic treasures.
Sam, its’ not me saying Councils, and various ratepayer associations have questions/concerns…IT IS THE COUNCILS, and VARIOUS RATEPAYER ASSOCIATIONS…happy?
Fine, you have concerns. What is the connection of your “concerns” with making sure half a million kiwis don’t have to boil there drinking water because there’s fucken human shit in it?
Sam, nope, again…it is Cow/Sheep dung causing concern…if Human Dung, we would have had Cholera outbreaks by now.
Your point still does not address why Councils, and Ratepayer Associations have concerns/questions about the new model being put in place under 3 Waters…
Here is an example of Maori seeking to manage resources in there interests and that bugs you. That’s the totality of everything you could be. The way you deal with it is seek out things that bother you.
How do we balance this against the fair point many are making that we now live in a democracy which whilst far from perfect has proven to be the least bad form of government.
A significant move away from the accepted practice that the vast majority of society have consented to living under needs a full debate so that it can be tested and evaluated with the intent being that we all agree it’s going to improve our collective lives.
If we fail to do that, the implicit consent given by the broader community collapses and then what? Well, the extreme outcome is civil war the less extreme is gated communities, mass tax evasion and a failed state like much of South America and parts of Africa
Be careful what you wish for ‘Yeti’ Nationalism is a dog that you wouldn’t want to contemplate? Ever thought how powerful nationalism is that can easily trump liberalism? What does nationalism look like to you Yeti?
Nope, again, Sam…how did the Government manage the water of the Conservation Estate, and Environment Canterbury — once they got control?
Not good…crazy water schemes, and ignoring Maori concerns were the outcomes…NZ Government does not have a good track record of water management
Eg, Jason Smith, the mayor of Kaipara:
Smith served on the governance group but, in the end, refuses to back its compromise solution. “I think the whole thing is terribly wrong,” he says. “Terribly, terribly wrong.”
Or Auckland Mayor Phil Goff, too, walked away from the group’s final report last month because it didn’t retain sufficient control for his council.
“Even with the changes recommended by the working group, the model does not deliver the democratic accountability to Aucklanders through their elected representatives that Mayor Goff has repeatedly called for.”
– Auckland Mayor’s office
From the link below:
Robertson’s presence [at the “going ahead” announcement] is intended to show the Government is committed to these reforms at the highest levels; it will not be swayed by a local election year mutiny by 32 of the country’s 67 city and district councils.
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/govt-under-pressure-to-guarantee-debt-of-big-new-water-corporations
Yep! not content with digging their own grave they are now quibbling over the design of the coffin and the type of nails each MP will hammer in as this government dies a steady death.
The question I want answered is: Why can’t they just focus on the task of fixing the infrastructure instead of focusing on administration? Now the whole thing is about maori politics instead of fixing broken pipes. Everything Labour touches now is about the same thing…the politics of it.
ummm there is no question. Labour are incompetent and this is theft of assets already paid for.Centralization is a worthless concept designed to create jobs for the professional managerial classes.
Our water infrastructure needs upgrading. Water supply is a Regional issue that requires local knowledge. Indebting kiwis to pay for assets already owned and built by them is a dumb idea. It reeks of an asset grab.
It is a stupid unworkable model on every single level.
And the 50% iwi control model is unnecessary and unjustified.
Dividing water catchments into Iwi controlled areas is geographical illiteracy.
But Labour does specialize in fuckwittery.
So looking forward to seeing them booted from office.
The Treaty makes concessions for Maori to manage there own resources. If we applied that treaty principle to central government control then it’d be correct at least 10% of the time and wrong atleast 50% of the time.
All the people who are hyper focused on Maori speak only english and all the people who are hyper focused on providing safe, secure drinking water for all can and do use the Maori language as well.
Those that are hyper focused on Maori through the lense of water infrastructure don’t care at all about water infrastructure and it’s deceptive.
We have the second equal highest drinking quality in the world, what is this all about?
It’s not about the resource (4th water), it’s about managing, maintaining and improving urban waste, storm and drinking water infrastructure. Infrastructure built and paid for by generations of ratepayers and their democratically elected representatives. No one has explained how any of that has anything to do with the tribes specifically, rather than the communities generally.
It follows then that: “The Treaty makes concessions for Maori to manage there own resources” is complete nonsense in this context. The whole basis of the three waters heist is bullshit.
New Zealand has only one great asset – Water.
Water is life why don’t some of you Pakeha on this site realize that? David George the only heist that should be scrutinized is when right-wingers and their elected political parties promote privatizing our resources to foreigners?? Get a life man.
Where specifically does the treaty say this? The three articles of it that I have read state that the 1. Queen is Sovereign to all, 2. property rights exist and 3. we are all equal under the law (Crown)
Yeti your ‘white supremacy’ is visible and clearly can’t be contained. I have given you amble example and meanings of the TOW. Your bigoted narrative and logic is evident that you’re not of an educated mindset that should be discussing important issues aforementioned
http://www.library.auckland.ac.nz/
The next local authority elections you’ll notice lawyers, accountants, business men seeking to be a Mayor or councilor. What do they know about 3 waters and co-governance. All they will be promoting is keeping rates rises low. In the wider Auckland CBD area the separation of sewarage and storm water main is a multi billion dollar project – so whos going to pay that, probably the south and west aucklanders. I have been associated with my awa for all my 74 years lifetime. We swam and fished in the river. I am still concerned about the awa and especially the flooding issues and effects on our papakainga. There are no pollution issues as few farms and no industries. Thats why my Maori need to have substantial inpiut to three rivers processes.
It is a corporation by another, fancier name, with the representation question serving as a giant red herring to hide many serious genuine concerns. The water of Aotearoa should not be treated in this way.
You are quite right about selling our water. Allowing (if I recall) a Chinese firm to bottle gigalitres from a site just north of ChCh (did they take over a previous right held by a freezing works? — someone may know), to the anger of locals, and charging a pathetic royalty, is complete stupidity. It’s a bit like Saudi Arabia allowing us to take their oil out of the ground, for a penny-a-barrel royalty.
Our water should never be privatized.
But Labour have messed up what should have been a no-brainer. (1) They acted in bad faith, having said that Councils could opt in or out; but then reneging, and saying opt in as the only option. (2) The puerile advertising campaign, aimed at a kindergarten level, and costing a million or more, undermined their credibility. (3) The mess-up about co-governance, and what that may, or may not, mean.
And a curious irony: Water, which we can’t live without, costs very little (free, if you collect the rain); while diamonds, completely unnecessary, cost millions.
Yes they did take over an existing resource consent .
I think it was 99 years or some ridiculous figure.
Here is an analogy:
If Aotearoa were a human being, it is as if this being were misdiagnosed with kidney failure and hooked up to a clunky, untested dialysis machine, one with NO guarantees that it will even do the job. …And, when what was actually needed was a radical change of lifestyle, and restored health in other parts of the body.
within 20yrs our water will be owned by foreign interests…this just bundles resources into saleable packages…which is of course the long game….throw maori a few crumbs to help grease the wheels and hey presto.
The mechanism will be—
we can’t afford infrastructure
we must get private investment capital
we have large debts we cannot service
we must sell our assets to pay off the debt (by percentages so people don’t get flustered)
and there you go our water is owned by a french, german or canadian company like the UKs is.
And on the way a very lucky few who happen to have a little specific ancestry will make a bundle whilst the rest of us get fucked over once again
Got proof Yeti? Or is this another ‘Pepe the frog’ moment?
Yes, the proposed legislation allows for the Māori / Iwi to indulge in unconstrained rent seeking. If this goes ahead, as sure as night follows day the price we pay will increase to line their pockets. Selling the assets would line them further
Yes, I imagine the aim of the Maori caucus was to provide a revenue stream for iwi. But they knew that wouldn’t fly, so they felt obliged to paint 3 Waters as being about water quality.
That not proof that just a bigoted way from ‘Yeti’ of saying that Maori cant be at the table to negotiate their inalienable right. http://www.library.auckland.ac.nz/
That not proof ‘Yeti’ that a meme from a NZ pakeha or (tauiwi) depicting himself as a Himalayan creature who’s been extinct for centuries which is indicative of the type of gobsmack troupes that has permeated since the arrivals of foreigners in our beautiful country.
The price of living has been rising for years ‘Yeti’ and conflate that with international issues it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure that out. What about the Pakeha elite? Little if any get mentioned in your bigoted rants, proves what type of individual you are.
no it won’t. rubbish!
We need Maori interests to balance foreign interests otherwise anyone can just rock up in Wellington and say this is my capital now like the settler colonialist government before 🙂
yes it will, rubbish…
see how complex arguments go cabbage…?
Haha brilliant response gagarin.
ok prove it. and then give me next weeks lotto numbers.
The onus of proof is on you cabbage, prove its rubbish?
Yes it will, most definitely. What else, that’s worth more than a jot, is left in this country to privatise? Fuck all! It’s all been ‘stolen’ in one guise or another over the last 38 years. Unless kiwis can really wake up and stand as one against the few who deem it necessary to own it all, at our expense, it will be lost.
How’s your power bill, phone bill, internet bill, lack of availability of forestry products, branch line train trips, banking services and everything else the neocons have hoovered up ever since that traitor Roger Douglas let his greedy politic loose on a once independently wealthy Aotearoa.
Where was all the neocon bastards money when this young country’s infrastructure was being built? Fuck that! That shits expensive to build, let the hoi poiloi pay taxes for our companies to build it, then later, when all the teething issues are sorted, at their expense, we’ll come by with a shady plan and pull it out from under them. As the snake John Key said, do it little by little and they won’t notice, or words to that effect.
Absolutely traitorous behaviour. Once water is gone, and read the rhetoric if you don’t believe they won’t try & sell it. We’ll only sell if – ‘there’s a 74% majority in parliament.’
Fuck that political language. If you’ve no intention of stealing every NZers right then have it written 100% into law and stop trying to give yourselves a weasley weasel way out through corporate double speak.
Fuck three waters and all the pricks under the covers who want to add, eventually to all NZers, another lot of payments to privateers for something they have already bought and paid for.
What’s next? Ooh look…ACC!
‘Nationalism’ trumps a ‘liberally democracy’ any day! Nationalize our water and leave the profits and the resources in Aotearoa for all New Zealanders.