There is currently some conversation around whether Luxon is being ‘singled out’ for his Christian faith. Or, rather, whether Christianity is being singled out – and is an ‘acceptable target’.
It’s an issue, sure – a religion is, implicitly, a set of values and adherence is resculpting the world around one to be in some measure more in accordance with same. Whether that’s just in our own personal life, or out more broadly in the lives of others and society, the nation, as a whole.
However, here’s the thing. The rhetorical question posed by at least one Nat is whether we think Luxon would be getting the same critical probing if he were Muslim. The implicit claim, as I say, is that it’s ‘acceptable’ to ‘pick on’ Christianity – and would not be so to similarly scrutinize a ‘minority’ religion.
Which leaves aside, for a start, that the particular rather evangelical flavouring of Christianity that Luxon’s previously been affiliated with is, itself, a minority religion on our shores.
And second, the very strong probability that *were* Luxon somehow a Muslim, the overarching level of potentially harsh scrutiny would, if anything, likely be worse. If, perhaps, ‘worse’ significantly because of those other quarters it would now be coming from at greater heat.
As somebody pointed out, though, the prospects of the National Party acquiring a Muslim leader in the near or even intermediate term future are … not exactly high – and in no small part because the cultural values of National (and a reasonable swathe of the rest of the country) are much more comfortable with a Christian leader than one of any other proclivity of faith.
Nevertheless, there’s some perhaps precedency value in the experiences of persons of other religions in other Anglosphere polities around the globe.
Close observation of certain of these means that I can genuinely state that if either major party had a prominently Hindu leader, I believe they’d get a pretty heavy grilling over it. It’d start out with “So, do you support Hindutva Fascism And Modi” and work out to “you oppose eating cows. Surely, for a beef exporting nation such as New Zealand, this is unpatriotic due to farming?”
It would be accompanied by commentary in some quarters about how we shouldn’t have “Demon-Worshipping” figures leading our nation. If you think I’m joking about this – it literally happened to Tulsi Gabbard during her electoral campaign efforts to represent Hawaii (a reasonably tolerant state) in Congress. Editorial cartoons would be making Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom references.
Meanwhile, closer to home – about a year ago, then-newly minted NZ Labour MP Gaurav Sharma was attacked by a journalist who claimed he was giving voice to Hindu “fascism” … by speaking Sanskrit in our nation’s Parliament.
So as I say – if we wound up with an overtly Hindu MP leading one of our major political parties, I feel pretty confident in asserting that they’d get at least as much of a ‘going over’ as Luxon is about his particular shade of Christianity.
Something which, again, probably isn’t much to do with Luxon being Christian in general terms – as the specific sort of Christianity which he’s previously been associated with.
To be clear about this – I think it’s perfectly reasonable for the electorate to want to ‘get to know’ the values and beliefs of somebody they might consider voting to support in the future. There’s ample room for probing questions about a whole host of viewpoints.
The issue arises when instead of ‘probing questions’ that seek to give us out here in the Cheap Seats an opportunity to understand what the elected representative may or may not do if given (further) power … we’re instead treated to a televised turkey-shoot wherein ‘questions’ are merely veils for invective and jeering.
In that circumstance – nobody really learns anything, and it just encourages a lack of transparency all around.
With somebody like Jami-Lee Ross being probed on his and his party’s Covid-19 attitude, it’s arguably a different story – there, it was reasonably plain that a grift was on, and in that rather prominent post-Election interview, Tova O’Brien’s ditching of the usual journalistic standards / approach effectively came across as expressing much of a nation’s boiled-over frustration with the man and his sidekick.
But that’s a door hitting a man on the way out. Something which, to be sure, with National’s ‘revolving door’ leadership scheme of late, may be a somewhat relevant concept for some of its lineup.
Luxon’s on his way in – as National Party Leader, at any rate. Enquiring about something that’s obviously very significant to him and which may have some bearing upon his political behavior in that role isn’t ‘singling out’ and victimizing a man for his faith … or, for that matter, engaging in a witch-hunt of anybody of avowed Christian proclivity in our nation’s politics.
Having said that, it’s certainly possible to do this in better and/or worse ways – but the evident claim that this is ‘just’ a Christian thing … and that no other person of faith would find themselves facing some (potentially rather severe) level of scrutiny simply doesn’t hold up.
Luxon’s Christianity is being probed not because it’s Christianity – nor, to a point, because it’s a smaller and more forthright branching thereof. Rather, it’s because it’s Luxon’s. If it were Luxon’s Islam, or Luxon’s Scientology, or other expressions of faith he’d lived ardently by – it’d be the same.
But, of course, it’s very convenient to claim there’s an Inquisition going on to unfairly single out Christians for drumming out of public life with as a pre-emptive distraction just in case some … unpalatable responses come up to the aforementioned probing of Luxon’s beliefs in question.
All I want to know is just how whacky these Upper Room people are. The main problem being one of not knowing what the fuck we are letting ourselves in for without having their beliefs exposed. Why are they so secretive and reluctant to tell it all?
I’d suggest you read American-Fascists by Chris Hedges to get a clearer picture on them. They are associated with, and fundamentally a part of the US Evangelical movement that was born out of the great depression.
Hedges also gave a very interesting talk about how the Christian churches in America, once voices for social and economic justice, were subverted and colonised by the capitalist class.
The Gospel was perverted into a self-help get-rich scheme, social solidarity was eroded and transmuted into tribal flag waving militarism, Bible study was twisted into fundamentalist anti-science fuckwittery
Thank you ignatius. Z Victor 1 will co.
I do recall the PM being asked about her beliefs in Mormonism…
It’s complicated, too, by the idea that wealth and Christianity are not compatible.
you could say the same for islam
The important aspect of this scrutiny is not the religion but the strongly held moral and social values that follow from it. Considering the governments involvement in social legislation this is a fair discussion to be having.
Curwen has put the enquiries on Luxon’s beliefs or otherwise in a useful perspective with the examples he provides.
I agree that Luxon should be pursued on this until explanations are forthcoming, and that the nature of “Upper Room” be investigated too, just as Scientology and many other cults and offshoots are subject to journalists attention.
Trumpism showed what can happen when right wing politics allies with religious extremism. Luxon is not Trump you say? well lets find out for sure if this chap really believes in “the rapture” and wants to be PM of New Zealand which has a clear separation of Church and State.
National MP’s Bolger, Finlayson and English were practising Catholics without anybody getting too forensic about it. But if they did become forensic, there is much information available about Catholicism and other Christian denominations, and about Islam and Judaism, and their sacred texts are available and easily accessible.
– The one shelf of sacred books of an impoverished Afghani farmer in the Tirigan Valley was specifically targeted by the SIS, presumably recognising the importance and the significance of the written word.
So Luxon’s sect appears to be the odd lot out here if it is a secret garden, and it’s not surprising that this may be regarded as suspicious, but not just because they’re seemingly Christian – which could be totally irrelevant.
Bolger, Finlayson and English didn’t face the scrutiny of the NZ media with $55 million from the Labour in their back pocket.
See the difference.
Really didn’t think that one through did you…. None of the three you mention used their religion as an excuse for their actions, and this is coming from a lifelong Labour voter btw.. Bolger never made an issue of the fact he was born into the catholic faith, as the other two were.. That, as those who would think about theses things with their brain, and not their reflexes, is a world away from the type of recently invented evangelical, tub thumping, money and power grabbing “christianity” that is doing incalculable damage to countries where it has taken root.. Have a look across the Tasman if you want to see where this idiocy leads… It’s not pretty, and it has nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus…. Your comment isn’t even specious.. It’s just willful ignorance..
“Your comment isn’t even specious.. It’s just willful ignorance..”
As per usual!
National MP’s Bolger, Finlayson and English were practising Catholics without anybody getting too forensic about it. But if they did become forensic, there is much information available about Catholicism and other Christian denominations, and about Islam and Judaism, and their sacred texts are available and easily accessible.
– The one shelf of sacred books of an impoverished Afghani farmer in the Tirigan Valley was specifically targeted by the SIS, presumably recognising the importance and the significance of the written word.
So Luxon’s sect appears to be the odd lot out here if it is a secret garden, and it’s not surprising that this may be regarded as suspicious, but not just because they’re seemingly Christian – which could be totally irrelevant.
I think what’s prompted the interest in Luxon’s religion is that is has been described as evangelical/fundamentalist. Which suggests rather than it being a passive private belief, he is more interested in pushing those beliefs.
Therefore I think it’s a legitimate question to put to a prospective leader. If you are standing for the job of leading this country, and you are a religious fundamentalist, the public needs to know if any decisions you make are coming from a position of rational thought or theological doctrine.
“the public needs to know if any decisions you make are coming from a position of rational thought or theological doctrine.”
Yes, and it goes deeper still.
Religious belief almost without exception is based in faith. Faith is required because of the lack of good evidence for core aspects of the system that is demanding belief.
When I allow decision making and leadership power to be exercised over me I regard it as essential to know if it is being exercised by someone who bases their thinking in rational thought or whether the person is comfortable using an irrational system of evidence-free thinking, as so much theological doctrine is.
Luxon should tell us how old he accepts the age of the Earth to be, whether he believes in the biblical flood, flying angels and talking snakes.
So who describes this as evangelical fundamentalism. The media I suppose.
In my opinion the only way I should treat others (regardless of my/their “faith”) is how I wish to be treated by others. Extra simple Simon.
Might be simple but says it all.
I definitely have gathered the impression that, if Chris Luxon were a Muslim, he would be under more intense scrutiny but he would have other Muslims to defend him and his faith; his Christianity is getting him more scrutiny than if he were an atheist and less scrutiny than if he were a Muslim; and lastly, he has a limited amount of other Christians who seem to want to put their own reputations on the line in order to defend this man and their shared faith.
Come on, we’ve had over four years of secular policies forced upon us by a socialist political party which can all too easily be mistaken for a communist one. I’m really surprised that more Christians are not speaking out in support of this Leader and his Deputy.
‘… mistaken for a communist one.” ?? Do you even know what Communism is??
You bring yourself into ridicule with such a silly statement.
Jesus was a socialist.
secret societies are anti-democratic by their very nature they seek to subvert/side step democracy to forward their ideological political convictions
picking on christians?
tosh..
don’t care about the feel feels of entitled rightard SJW evangelical snowflakes
Christians tend to shut up when they get money for nothing. Different story when they have to pay.
big tick
A rational view The media interest in Kuxon’s relationship with God is oddmore than a year of media saying he is a future leader of National, journalists are finally asking what he believes in – and inquiring on the number of houses. How would he vote on abortion? It would be a conscience vote – so his not going to change the world. His wealth is a valid issue – not so much because of allegations opf privilege – but because in PR tr\rsm Luxon is at a disadvantage saying he knows how ordinary Ne Zealanders think. I doubt he was a state house l\kid like Key. Jacinda is a morman cop’s daughter. Jacinda has recanted. But has she abandoned everything she was bought up to believe. U]\It’s irrational Clark ws a farmer’s daughter.,The other factor is the passion of people like Susie Ferguson – whose own views express in interviews, are are ideological and sometimes religio, She states boldly as fact that men are women if they believe they are. Itsound religious
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