The vaccination issue is no longer a scientific one, it is like climate denial now, it’s a culture war where reason and logic has gone to die.
The science is very, very, very clear on vaccinations, if you don’t take it, COVID can make you very sick and kill you.
I feel that the vaccination debate would be a lot less feral if AntiVaxxers weren’t so fucking stupid!
Sure big pharma are making cash, sure you can’t mandatory force vaccinations, sure there is a tiny percentage of people who will have adverse reactions to the vaccine – but all that said, you are far safer from being vaccinated than not being vaccinated.
Into this chasm of fear is a working class electorate who are barely scientifically literate being manipulated by far right white supremacy neoNazis…
Anti-vaxxers, conspiracy theorists, and the far-right came together over COVID
Scenes of protesters clad in hi-vis jackets and shouting anti-vaccination slogans have dominated the news this week. As the ABC reported: “Some of those gathered held a banner reading ‘freedom’, while others sang the national anthem and chanted ‘f*** the jab’.”
Some attacked union offices, drawing criticism from officials such as ACTU chief Sally McManus, who described the protests as being orchestrated “by violent right-wing extremists and anti-vaccination activists.”
These images may shock some but for researchers like me — who research far-right nationalist and conspiracy movements, and explore the online spaces where these people organise — these scenes came as no real surprise.
Far right nationalists, anti-vaxxers, libertarians and conspiracy theorists have come together over COVID, and capitalised on the anger and uncertainty simmering in some sections of the community.
They appear to have found fertile ground particularly among men who feel alienated, fearful about their employment and who spend a lot of time at home scrolling social media and encrypted messaging apps.
…George Monbiot goes further…
It’s shocking to see so many leftwingers lured to the far right by conspiracy theories
It’s an uncomfortable thing to admit, but in the countercultural movements where my sympathies lie, people are dropping like flies. Every few days I hear of another acquaintance who has become seriously ill with Covid, after proudly proclaiming the benefits of “natural immunity”, denouncing vaccines and refusing to take the precautions that apply to lesser mortals. Some have been hospitalised. Within these circles, which have for so long sought to cultivate a good society, there are people actively threatening the lives of others.
It’s not just anti-vax beliefs that have been spreading through these movements. On an almost daily basis I see conspiracy theories travelling smoothly from right to left. I hear right-on people mouthing the claims of white supremacists, apparently in total ignorance of their origins. I encounter hippies who once sought to build communities sharing the memes of extreme individualism. Something has gone badly wrong in parts of the alternative scene.
There has long been an overlap between certain new age and far-right ideas. The Nazis embraced astrology, pagan festivals, organic farming, forest conservation, ecological education and nature worship. They promoted homeopathy and “natural healing”, and tended to resist vaccination. We should be aware of this history, but without indulging what Simon Schama calls the “obscene syllogism”: the idea that because the Nazis promoted new age beliefs, alternative medicine and ecological protection, anyone who does so is a Nazi.
In the 1960s and 70s, European fascists sought to reinvent themselves, using themes developed by revolutionary anarchists. They found fertile ground in parts of the anarcho-primitivist and deep ecology movements, which they tried to steer towards notions of “ethnic separatism” and “indigenous” autonomy.
But much of what we are seeing at the moment is new. A few years ago, dreadlocked hippies spreading QAnon lies and muttering about a conspiracy against Donald Trump would have seemed unthinkable. Today, the old boundaries have broken down, and the most unlikely people have become susceptible to rightwing extremism.
The anti-vaccine movement is a highly effective channel for the penetration of far-right ideas into leftwing countercultures. For several years, anti-vax has straddled the green left and the far right. Trump flirted with it, at one point inviting the anti-vaxxer Robert F Kennedy Jr to chair a “commission on vaccination safety and scientific integrity”.
Anti-vax beliefs overlap strongly with a susceptibility to conspiracy theories. This tendency has been reinforced by Facebook algorithms directing vaccine-hesitant people towards far-right conspiracy groups. Ancient links between “wellness” movements and antisemitic paranoia have in some cases been re-established. The notion of the “sovereign body”, untainted by chemical contamination, has begun to fuse with the fear that a shadowy cabal is trying to deprive us of autonomy.
…the manner in which the Right have manipulated this fear and anger runs deep, but the way neoliberalism has used the white working class as economic collateral damage has built that resentment alongside woke cancel culture.
Why did Trump after 4 terrible years manage to gain votes? Because middle class identity politics cancel culture drove the rejected into the arms of Trump!
As economic anxiety builds for the working classes in NZ, look at the NZ political left’s response.
- Gerrymandering the Sexual assault laws so that any man accused of rape is convicted.
- Climate change emergency declaration that doesn’t do anything.
- Strangling off free speech with a blasphemy law and criminalizing the misuse of pronouns.
- Ending Gay Conversion therapy that proponents can’t quantify.
- Critical Racism theory in 0ranga Tamariki.
For the 190000 children in poverty, 24000 on emergency housing wait lists and generations locked out of home ownership, the NZ Left’s response is woke wankery.
Rather than focus on jobs, houses and poverty (because they are hard) we get middle class virtue signals.
Let’s remind you of the holy trinity of woke identity politics dogma.
In the name of the non-binary mother, non-binary daughter and the monthly ghost: All white people are irredeemable racists, all men are rapists and anyone defending free speech is a uniform wearing Nazi.
The Right look for recruits, the Left look for traitors and right now, the dangerous far right are winning.
Thanks to middle class identity politics, the Left have spent more energy since 2016 on fighting heteronormative white cis male patriarchy than capitalism and the most dangerous thing about identity politics is when white males see themselves as victims.
To paraphrase the Joker, “What do you get when you cross alienated white males with a society that abandons them and treats them like trash?
You get what you fucking deserve.
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Me thinks the Covid deniers (anti Vaxxers) are grouping all manner of political fuckups into one big conspiracy that the Govt and the 1 percenters are trying to control us all. Everything from Climate Change to Child Poverty is some sort of plot to keep them all under Govt control. In a way they are somewhat correct, but not for the reasons they think. Politics is a boring topic for most young people, the last thing they want is to follow politics and watch the boring and depressing real news. Here they will see the evils that are heaped upon the masses by corrupted Politicians doing the dirty work for Big Business to bolster their profits at everybody else expense. It’s call Neo Liberal Economics. Something they have never heard of. If they understood what is really going down then maybe they would not support political parties that promote even harsher neo liberal policies that make their lives even worse.
“Politics is a boring topic for most young people …”
I think you’re right, for most young people. Perhaps for every generation. Most young people are no Helen Kelly, Tim Shadbolt or Helen Clarke. As of yesterday, today no civics education in the curriculum. As par for the era, well-intentioned but uncommunicative parents. I think back to my own youth and the issues of the day: import restrictions, think big projects, superannuation, the Vietnam War , French nuclear testing in the Pacific. To be sure pushing back against the absurdity of the Vietnam War and supporting a nuclear free NZ touched me, but not in a big way. Protesting was what young people did, yes, and continue to do. Pushing back against injustice and authority because, FFS, ‘they’ just have it all wrong. Were we right to show our lack of trust. But everyday politics were boring, boring, boring. All politicians were tarred with the same brush, not to be trusted, self-interested at best, at worst, pigs with their noses in the trough. When did it become more interesting? I got older. I travelled, mixed in the world of men and women. I become educated, beyond that of the basics learned in school. I became to understand the meaning of the word ‘critical’. Neoliberalism arrived under stealth and NZ was sold off. I really becme to understood what self-interest really meant.
Perhaps this is the path for many. The passage of time. But now, yes, there is the additional world of social media, algorithms, fake news, the world of post-truth. I often wonder had the internet existed back in the day what would have happened differently.
Great comment – sums it up perfectly
I think what Martyn’s trying to say is the people don’t trust anyone anymore. We don’t know who we are and where we belong. We can’t trust the media, politicians or doctors. We can’t believe statistics because they can be manipulated. The disadvantaged have the most reason to think like this but plenty of the well off think like this also. Those in authority have lied so much they can’t be trusted. Including Jacinda. The problem is those who don’t believe anything from official sources end up believing everything they read off social media. If there is doubt in your mind you’ll find a friend who thinks the same on social media. It’s comforting and you’re not alone in your thinking. Unless every news source in the world is wrong Covid is killing millions and will continue to do so. It’s the one fact. Our health system is barely functioning now so add several thousands of Covid patients and it will collapse. If we all get vaccinated we have a far better chance of avoiding that scenario. Just get vaccinated even if it’s a bit scary.
We don’t always agree New View but I’m 100 % behind you on this one.
Bert I notice you’re encouraging common sense also . It seems in some of our thinking we’re are not so different.
Thank you.
If I don’t wish to be killed by a train I choose not to walk in front of one, the same be said of Covid and vaccination.
im not scared to die of covid but if i loose my job because im unvaccinated i might just jump in front of the train
Forget about the job and train, even if your not scared to die of covid why would you not avail yourself of the opportunity not to die of covid. Either you have a death wish or you are inexplicable.
Agree with your sentiments New View. This morning I heard Andrew Little agree we were 1500 nurses short including 100 ICU nurses but then he said it was immegration that was slowing down these workers. A sensible person can have little faith in a system that allows this travesty to happen .
The calling to account of Labour over so many issues is lost while the Opposition is wasting time name calling .
Middle class NZ is squawking about those scary numbers of possible deaths.
The facts are they are getting a wake up call for the degradation of our healthy system they allowed to happen .
They allowed it by turning a blind eye to the total underfunding of our health system from the GPs clinic through meds funding and the Hospital and dhb funding .
Now they are calling bullshit on those scary numbers.
I agree with Trevor every damn Govt since the 1990s has under funded health and now all the chickens have come home to roost.
So this situation Trevor cannot be laid just at labours door.
Is it time to ask the proponents of the last great conspirisy, 5G how many of the outcomes feared have come to pass.
Honey, the mantra is as follows
In the name of the Transwomen, the Transman and the transchild
bio women and girls (aslo called Terf ) need not apply.
Also i agree with you, rape is such an uncommon thing that literally we should just make it legal. Don’t these terfs now that a womens place is at home, and if she truly needs to leave the house (and truly could be defined somehow) then she could just wait until a male relative is there to accompany here.
but i agree with you, Labour like National, are the t wo sides of the coin that is the owning class of NZ, and both sides find building houses, building hospitals in the time of the plague, paying nurses their fair and hard earned share, etc hard work, and when you have a good look at all of them currently in government, not one of them is known for hard work.
I hear they have fancy degrees in communications, so why do you expect that they go about fixing shit, when they can just tell you in so many words why that is unpalatable to them.
Nice!
You’ve captured exactly where lil ole NZ is at, Fuck’d!
Down the rabbit hole it’s fallen.
Been battling this with the left for years and they still don’t get it!
They’re a bunch of gormless H8’s of anyone who can think for themselves!
You’ve got to take your hat off to the rights QAnon theorist because they have suckered the left in good this time.
Will the left in NZ realise and recover from this? So far, I’m not confident they will or can. They’re too full of themselves and their own bs.
But great piece M. You’ve captured what I’ve thought for quite some time.
The irony of course is when Trump (or his surrogate) wins in 2024 the left will have no idea how he won and with more votes
If he’s not in prison, he will have won by allowing all those insurrectionists, oops tourists through the capital or as Denny Paoa has said because Qanon have done their job.
I’d pay the price of another 3 years of the Blairite fucking our country over for the LOLs if Trump got in in 2024. Yep it would be worth it to see the world wide meltdown
It dissolved, melted, whilst Trump was in charge, didn’t you witness the insurrection?! Or did the T.V. lie?
Fuck your funny Fwankie.
The Blairite as you put it , has the economy booming because isn’t that what you judge everything by Fwankie, money?
“The Russians!”
Anti-vaxxers are merely shit scared and have no trust in capitalist systems of health management. ( And who can blame them? )
Ignorance is not a lack of intelligence. Ignorance is a lack of information and successive gubbimints post neoliberalism were, and are, bullshit artists, now with a high level of experience, most of your money and state funded resources.
We’re lied to every day and most evenings. The MSM lies to us in a manner that best suits the advertising industry which = money = banksters and advertising lies by buckling reality and generating the false-utopia horizon we’re meant to work ever harder to try to get a glimpse of. ( While the thieving capitalist elite are already there and doing their best to make sure we never make it.)
No wonder, then, that people are forced to draw their own conclusions about a terrifying disease, the only defence against which we have that’s guaranteed to work is to run like fuck then hide.
Anti-vaxxers fail in one vital, critical level of their thinking .
Don’t get vaccinated and you’re highly likely to get Delta/c-19, You’re equally likely to become critically ill and in many cases in an enduring way which can lead to a horrible death.
Get vaccinated ! And significantly improve the odds in your favour and never mind the bollocks.
Anti-vaxxers? Based on pure common sense, you don’t have a choice if you honestly and cooly think about it. Get bloody vaccinated.
I’m an older coot, I’ve had my first jab, or at least I think I did because I literally never felt the needle go in and the only side effect I experienced was an enduring erection that lasted about nine days.
No, it wasn’t. But it did get the attention of some of you anti-vaxxers though I bet.
I got a sore arm at the point of the jab sight. a bit of an ache, like a light bruise but only when I bumped my arm and that lasted about 48 hrs.
Since then? Nothing. No erections, no hairy palms, no sexual fantasies about a trump/collins three-way. Nothing.
The neoliberals in the DHBs and surrounding areas are trying to replace nurses with ‘health and support workers’ with a ‘quickly’ qualification that nobody apparently fails in our new neoliberal education system, middle management whose job seems to be to expand their empires, and incoming doctors to NZ who allegedly killed 3 children, and another who trained in NZ and now murdered a teenager. The mistake in Samoa with vaccinations, then you can see what is fueling the anti vax movement and fear of the health system.
NZ still has extremely good health care. If you are seriously hurt you generally get extremely good care in NZ.
NZ must band together to portray a message and expectation of increasing the quality and availability of that excellent health care to the government not let it be drowned out by private interests fuelling the anti vax ers.
Fucking hilarious side effects…or lack thereof!!!
Bahahaha!
I’m sure the thought of that 3 way would soon fix your 9 day side effect Countryboy!
Anti vexers are just another group of people who have been shaped to think that everything they do is right.
It is extreme individualism, an absence of practicality and is across the political spectrum from left to right.
There is hard ‘nutty’ left and hard ‘nutty’ right and the middle is being attacked at both ends. As they side one way, the latest fad or hated identity is used, so the slide the other way with the same result. The new individualists (left and right) are eating the edges and the middle class into a tinier piece of the spectrum.
Totally agree with
As economic anxiety builds for the working classes in NZ, look at the NZ political left’s response.
Gerrymandering the Sexual assault laws so that any man accused of rape is convicted.
Climate change emergency declaration that doesn’t do anything.
Strangling off free speech with a blasphemy law and criminalizing the misuse of pronouns.
Ending Gay Conversion therapy that proponents can’t quantify.
Critical Racism theory in 0ranga Tamariki.
But you left off
Cancelling landlords and demolishing exisiting housing, putting the renters on the streets or in motels while giving tax money to developers for grandiose McMansions or housing estates in their names, at massive costs and expecting the local community to pay for the infrastructure and risks via their council and other taxes like additional road taxes.
Cancelling protest movements as the woke message is that most people who care about protest are too racist to attend. You have to be the right identity to have the right to protest in NZ now.
Cancelled the mum and dad farmers, while bringing in more scab labour for the intensive farmers and corporations who have more farm than they can manage.
Cultural revolutions style, idealise the low paid migrant worker, toiling in the cartel supermarkets, liquor stores, retail, takeaways at minimum or ghost wages.
Idealise the small and large business owner who has environmentally wasteful businesses heavily subsidised by tax money via WFF, wage subsidies and various gig and contractor models to hire and fire at will, and the new innovation of paying back your wages in ghost or menial jobs and working illegally full time for cash all around NZ on construction sites, factories and farms.
When caught with your cash illegal labour, nothing happens or you get a paltry $2500 fine after years. If they die nothing happens except ACC pays out the widows overseas.
So easy for the accountants to work out to save money, you subcontract a crew to do the work, they subcontract to other subcontractors who send in illegal, cash workers to do the job and you can undercut 30% (just on the tax alone) the other contractors who pay tax! Then the ones with legal workers are less likely to get the work, let alone train and hire new people and the industry collapses constantly as the supply chain on labour alone is based on frauds. Let alone the new issues with materials supply, and how NZ has sold off much of it’s primary industry or it’s held by monopolies and now can’t get the materials or it’s at escalating prices.
If the work is not up to scratch, or the illegal worker is found, or they die on the job, the risk is carried by the taxpayers /government who is left to pay to prosecute and remedy the jobs when they fail via councils being prosecuted for signing off the consents. (Natz got around that by introducing ‘private’ sign offs that disappeared during leaky building and never paid out!)
We have a construction system, that is now taken over by incompetence and frauds and the sad thing, is that not a lot was learnt by government after the leaky building crisis or even the global financial crisis with banking products.
And if you do take it, COVID can make you very sick and kill you.
I’ve had both my shots, but let’s be factual here.
Didn’t Donald say he was vaccinated and tell all his adulterers to all get vaccinated?
Yes he did. Stating afterwards it’s everyone’s own choice but he did support vaccination.
He also said you can grab them by the pussy Frwankie.
In addition the neoliberals can’t wait to get Covid into NZ with their constant propaganda about MIQ places (anti vax style).
I know of two people who have left NZ and come back, they seemed to have little issue with the MIQ place system.
So my concern is that the 22,000 so called people clamouring to get into NZ, are actually not supposed to be getting into NZ in the first place or are nutty hard line, media focused, individualists or criminals making stuff up, who many of us are hoping won’t get in!
Labour are popular as they finally have an excuse to stop the mass influx of exploiters, criminals and whiners bringing in their scab labour and contraband, and boy are the woke and right wingers kicking up a stink and paying the usual subjects to be the mouth pieces to get back to exploiter, cash profits ASAP.
Ok fine, I’ll admit. I am a staunch antivaxxer. I have never been vaccinated. My kids have never been vaccinated for fear of 5G and magnets. The world is obviously flat. If only they would turn the Hubble telescope and prove it. I spend my days on right wing propaganda sites. People aren’t actually dying from COVID vaccines. It’s all in my head. I can see it now. When the ministry of truth, media and big business all started singing off the same song sheet it should’ve been obvious to me. How silly I have been. When I was told not to wear a mask I wore one. When I was told to wear one I refused. Doh. Why have I been so blind and dismissed the hundreds of children filling up our mortuaries. Thank you TDB for diligently reporting the other side of the story and not letting personal agendas muddy the truth.
… people mouthing the claims of white supremacists, apparently in total ignorance of their origins. I encounter hippies who once sought to build communities sharing the memes of extreme individualism. Something has gone badly wrong in parts of the alternative scene.
The pull of the tight knit supportive group – at school you ask your friends about things you don’t know. Friends who know as much as you, so you all hold each other back from learning actually. Now you call them up on your cellphones, visit the group on Facebook, don’t look outside the charming circle, stay close to the cohort.
Philomena Cunk is a comedic version of the above, and it’s funny viewed from a distance, but sadly close to reality with some. Here she explores ‘What’s the point of Charity?’ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDllsSrRUzs
I’ve been a long admirer of George Monbiot’s writing. Yes, the grievances felt by many are real and what continually amazes me is the capacity of so many to consistently misidentify the root causes of their grief and seek remedy by attacking the wrong targets, usually acting against their own interests in the process. Conspiracy theories are tailor-made to amplify the whole process.
There is organised misinformation about global warming and this pandemic from the right – in defence of capitalism, the corporate model and the neo-liberal market regime.
The object is to obstruct any organised government planned and executed action to deal with issues for the good of the many – because that might encourage the concept of the collective action as a driving force in politics – encourage planning for progressive change.
The same right peddle end time American religion to control the white working class voting behaviour (stacking the Supreme Court with right wingers to oppress women and to suppress the non white vote).
To this can be added the whole Q Anon stable of false witness horsemen of the apocalypse – 5G causing COVID and “extras” in the mark of the beast vaccine – this is so focused on undermining capacity for government that one can now also suspect foreign collusion with it to undermine the liberal western regime.
While I don’t follow the right on social media, it’s pretty obvious that Trump’s a fascist, and he has taken over the GOP. So to see the political right worldwide move in that direction is no surprise – fascism always used the outright lie (Jews stole the German victory in WW1, the Democrats stole the 2020 election).
Whenever there is need for collective action – GW, post GFC financial intervention, pandemic response (He Puapua) – fascism is promoted by the right in defence of “freedom”.
“…George Monbiot goes further…It’s shocking to see so many leftwingers lured to the far right by conspiracy theories”
He must have skipped 1930’s German history, fascism was designed to divide the working class and provide the mob (Massey’s Cossacks) control of the streets to remove the left from government and politics.
I’m not that surprised by the counter-culture thing – those secure from dependence on a place within the neo-liberal market, in God’s new age waiting room living healthily as long as they can, want freedom from authority/compulsion. Thus there has been a long slow boomer drift to libertarianism – as much based on lifestyle freedom as political philosophy.
The “ethnic separatism” and “indigenous” autonomy sounds like people of the homeland resistance to European Union, or states “heritage” rights in the USA.
The anti-vaxxer movement has been lined up with the end time notion of mark of the beast – loss of personal sovereignty (big data tech surveillance). It’s designed to induce fear in the mob.
Then comes who that mob is then mobilised to hate against – it’s government taking any collective action, (whether GW, pandemic response, raising debt to fund poverty alleviation) and anyone who stands up to the order of rule by, for and of the society by the white man.
“Thanks to middle class identity politics, the Left have spent more energy since 2016 on fighting heteronormative white cis male patriarchy than capitalism and the most dangerous thing about identity politics is when white males see themselves as victims.
To paraphrase the Joker, “What do you get when you cross alienated white males with a society that abandons them and treats them like trash? You get what you fucking deserve”
Sounds like gaslighting resistance to the western patriarchy to me.
So I’ll reposte with the white father, the white son and the great white invisible ghost in his hoodie walk the street in red MAGA caps like an army of Smiths.
You really overthink things. Do you ever get outdoors and clear your mind a bit
The antivaxxer sheep go baa baa baa.
No vaccination. No treatment. No sympathy.
Up there with……’If they can’t feed em, don’t breed em’…..
And what’s wrong with that logic? Should you have 5 kids knowing you can’t feed them?
What if someones circumstances change for the worse financially?
Who really knows what will happen financially in their future.
So NO WINZ/MSD benefits?
Easy to say, what you say, but where will you draw the line?
And then what happens to the children born and then it goes wrong fnancially for their parents, e.g. split up, loose job, dad gambles/drinks it all away.
Smoker, no treatment no sympathy too?
Obese?…….self-created diabetes?……drunken pregnancies?……AID’s?…… self harming?……. speeding or drink drivers who have an accident?……People who fight in the streets or in a pub?……Men who’s wife finally snaps and strikes back at him for all his wife bashing over the years?…….sports injuries; as they know there’s a HUGE chance of injury?
Where does an unilleginent heartless bugger draw the line?
If the Heath system gets overwhelmed by people who have chosen not to get a vaccination. Above them; that’s where I’d draw the line.
Well It’s a good job you’re no where near the levers of power then.
If you can arbitarily draw the line there, when there is ample evidence to worry about these so called vaccines and when there are (as zero as zero ever gets with drugs) alternatives no side effects that work.
Yet you see them worse than people who have made CONTINUAL year after year bad choices against ALL the evidence, NOT just the political science of the day.
You are clearly heartless uniformed twit.
Anyone who declines a treatment plan that involves 2 injections that has shown real world efficacy is a twit.
Agreed…but this lot have NOT shown real world efficacy, that’s the WHOLE point.
Ivermectin HAS.
Took the missus to Kaitaia Hospital for a blood test today. She has leukemia, and her immunity is compromised. We’ve both had our shots and we wear PPE when required. I waited outside. She went in, scanned the Covid poster with her phone and sat down. There were two security guards, one of whom checked to make sure she had scanned the Covid poster correctly. Then in comes some exciteable mask-less fuckwit ranting about sheep and how useless Ardern is and all the rest of the mindless rah rah. Real brave dude in a room full of sick women. The security guards did nothing. So fuck off “Kevin”, and tell all your fellow Einsteins that the days of kindness are over as far as this household is concerned.
On the security guard side, it’s more of the same pretence of work. Many security guards do nothing aka outside supermarkets etc, they are there for the pretence of ticking some box somewhere. But mostly the people are not trained in proper security, are subcontracted to the role and told don’t do anything but charge for the role. It’s another low wage job that does nothing – and in the case of OZ the security guards apparently were part of their problem with their spread of Covid, when they started having sex with the MIQ they were guarding. Someone went out of a supermarket without paying, so the workers were saying, stop, stop, but the theft kept on, and the security guard did nothing either. I guess they just give the security footage to police?
Then why the concern about the anti-vaxxers being denied treatment if all they have to do is use ivermectin
Good point Kevin. I see that parts of India have managed to get covid under control with early treatments. Out govt only sees one solution, a newly developed vaccine unleashed on the public, one with no long term safety data, that doesn’t prevent transmission and only lessons symptoms, and that bit of immunity wears off quickly, requiring booster shots after 9 months. I’m sorry if this hurts the feelings of people whove had their jabs. If you had it and youre fine.. Count yourself lucky and cross your fingers that you stay fine
Yes and they used Ivermectin, as did about half of Africa, the half with about a 10-20 times LESS death rate than using these ‘rushed vaccines’.
Swallowing cyanide would also prevent countless Covid deaths, Kevin. You sound like the sort of bloke I’d really like to meet in a hospital waiting room.
Cyanide would be counted as a covid death anyway
Don’t be too hasty Kevin. If you are curious get informed:
https://theconversation.com/ivermectin-shows-us-how-hard-it-is-to-use-old-drugs-for-covid-heres-how-to-do-better-next-time-168192
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/24/ivermectin-covid-peru-misinformation
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/sep/25/fraudulent-ivermectin-studies-open-up-new-battleground-between-science-and-misinformation
Fake news? Is the world flat?
Watching a news bulletin on television a couple of days ago, specifically an item regarding the vaccination drive here. What struck me was footage of someone involved in the effort, crying out “to get off the couch” to get one. As if insults are an effective method of promotion.
Sanctimonious behaviour is more noticeable lately through the media. Considering how often a point is made regarding education levels and vaccination uptake; it’s remarkable how these sanctimonious types don’t seem to have the intelligence to understand how insulting someone is likely to be counterproductive along with the other drawbacks of their behaviour.
These sanctimonious displays are sickening. Though sadly finding many unremarkable characters so full of their sense of self-importance isn’t uncommon nowadays. Not surprising why there exists those alienated from this “society”.
Yesterday we had quite a blow up at work when one of my lads went septic on another for not being vaxed. Mr Vaxed was being so utterly sanctimonious that for the first time ever I did very much enjoy giving a written warning. Mr Vaxed was very not amused to receive it but he did STFU. Miss Un-Vaxed has a good reason to be so and I’m perfectly fine with it.
It’s like climate change, too many sanctimonious fuckwits are simply too fucking lazy or so totally captured by the very intense marketing they now don’t have the mental capacity left to realise most they call deniers are just skeptical and denying nothing.
In Stuff today
“The claims from the various elements of the right need not be wholly, or even partly, true for them to gain currency among the “silent majority”.
John Bishop
He cited in his column claims on the right
“she has allowed the racial extremism of her Māori caucus to dominate the Labour Party”
“Former ACT MP Muriel Newman, told Australia SKYTV’s Andrew Bolt of her organisation’s fight against Māori “sovereignty activists” and the Labour government’s secret agenda to make New Zealand into a state equally co-ruled by Māori and non-Māori.”
“A video is circulating featuring US-based Kiwi author and activist Trevor Loudon, who positions Ardern, Grant Robertson and others as “hard-core leftists and small c communists” for their past … and for their advocacy of links with China.”
Essentially making stuff up is a right wing political tactic.
How is it the fault of the unvaxed if the vaxed get covid?
Because with the delta variant your viral load is a 1000 times more than the original wuhan variant if you are unvaccinated. If you are vaccinated your viral load is 800 times less than the wuhan variant.
The delta variant is 50% more infectious than the Alpha / Uk variant and 80% more infectious than the wuhan variant. Hence why after being vaccinated you still need to wear a mask to reduce your chances of getting or spreading it even more.
Man, you are funny. Read the data on israel. Also masks stop nothing. You have been duped.
Have any commentors looked up the Medsafe information on the vaccine and drilled down into it?
26 dead after vax when I last looked 2 weeks ago
Blunt drill bit?
26 dead. How many dead without vaccine, given over 4 million dead?
Bert, the 26 is in NZ, but I rechecked today and it’s now 54. In USA on their VAERS system, their official figure is about 15000 dead after vaccine.
Left Sceptical, the deaths you relate have not been attributed to the vaccine. Only one of the 54 was likely due to vaccine induced myocarditis (awaiting Coroner’s determination).
Of the others :
26 of these deaths are unlikely related to the COVID-19 vaccine
9 deaths could not be assessed due to insufficient information
18 cases are still under investigation.
I believe you deliberately presented the numbers in a manner to imply that all 54 were due to the vaccine. That is a dishonest tactic on your part.
What are you implying Rose? Give us a lead. And post the link.
https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/COVID-19/safety-report-27.asp
Correlation / potential causation
The same applies to over 90% of the “covid” deaths. The average number of co-morbidities is 2.4. That is over 90% of people who are said to have died of covid worldwide also had 2 or more serious illnesses, such as heart disease, diabetes, cancer etc. So the covid cause of death is correlation. But the people running the narrative want it both ways. If you die with covid, covid killed you, no matter how I’ll you were already. If you die after the vaccine, any other problems you may or not have had are the cause, almost never the vaccine. AKA bullshit.
I read the MOH pfizer 19 page report and other info on MOH website. Nothing definitive, all one sided as “safe”, short term partial cover, but take the jab at one’s own risk. I need to see peer reviewed summaries on various trials (I’ve come across one or two unreviewed short term studies. I want to read how old and what comorbidities people had when they died of covid. I want to read what vaccine if any they had and how many. I need full info, not the propaganda spin
Chances are good this will all be over by the time you complete your research.
Here’s a hint, when the vaccine is used, it is no longer trialed, it has been validated scientifically for use.
Wrong, you are just now a trial participant.
If you do not understand the definition fair enough, that can’t be helped.
My whanau up north is in a difficult dilemma. She is 60 and horrendously immune compromised with diabetes and other sicknesses. She and her husband have had their 2 jabs and her 90 year old mum has also had her jabs. She has 7 children and 32 grandchildren and several gg children. They and their spouses and children are vax hesitant and anti vaxxers. They were even trying to get some tweezers to stick to the vaccine spot. This is tragic for her and her mum so she has told them how vulnerable she is and not to visit if they are unwell or if they are returning from Tamaki. All this bullshit has come from facebook and youtube and these are not all dumb people.
I also have other whanau who dont want to be vaccinated despite being sick. I told them they will probably die and or kill their whanau.
I feel it is going to be a big challenge to get younger Maori to get their jabs.
Couple of days ago I was speaking to a Maori woman in the East Coast wops. She said she had previously worked for a health provider and knew what’s up so was vaccinated and the mokopuna she is bringing up would be vaccinated too if it was available for under 12s. Her children on the other hand think they are strong and healthy so don’t need to be vaccinated. She said she can’t tell them and hopes they will slowly come to understand.
You’re not allowed to say that people are much more likely to die or have far worse problems if they get Covid if they aren’t vaccinated. Apparently that’s using fear and I’ve heard to day today that using fear to make people get vaccinated is wrong.
Okay, we’re not going to put up big signs saying GET VACCINATED OR DIE! but maybe the strategy I’ve seen images of in the States is a good one. Big trucks with advertising on the sides: DON’T GET VACCINATED! and the name of a funeral home.
Please don’t forget what the Melbourne riots were about. Unfairness. Restrictions on unvaccinated people are not a public health measure because delta is transmitted among vaccinated people too. So it’s more about conformity. I’ll get vaccinated and put on me hi-vis and protest against enforced conformity.
its amusing one covid death recorded in america was a man falling off a ladder
Tim Pool just posted a pretty good video on the various issues surrounding the vaccination:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBVZVG3daMI
It’s clear COVID-19 has been highly politicised by the left (which is ironic, since when Trump was president it was the left who didn’t want to get jabbed ‘cos they didn’t trust the “Trump Vax”):
(e.g. US Vice President Kamala Harris: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_feSqSO3YUg )
“It’s clear COVID-19 has been highly politicised by the left”
Yeah, right.
Sometimes I worry about you.
Yeah it’s like Covid is only restricted to N.Z. and a Labour thing, pfft!
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56424614
The hard right didn’t politicize covid?
What I mean by that, is that the “anti-vaxxers” seem to be being painted by the left as “far-right nutters”. Of course the truth is there are plenty of leftie anti-vaxxers too. There is an inherent mistrust of both politicians (regardless of political colour) and big-pharma, and, let’s be honest, history shows that mistrust is well-earned. When both of them are on the same page (i.e. “everyone must get vaxxed”) it creates (imo) understandable fear.
When the next pandemic comes around anti-vax may not be such an issue. It seems the unvaccinated and their children and their antivax media personalities are a dying breed. I have sympathy for their families.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/16/anti-vaxxer-mother-and-daughter-die-from-covid-in-northern-ireland-hospital
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2021/09/american-anti-vaxxer-dies-suddenly-and-unexpectedly-after-contracting-covid-19.html
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/aug/29/conservative-radio-host-anti-vaxxer-dies-covid-marc-bernier
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2021/09/16/another-anti-vaccine-radio-host-is-killed-by-covid-adding-to-a-growing-list/?sh=2d8f9d493105
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/israeli-anti-vaxxer-dies-of-covid-but-his-followers-remain-unwavering-1.10208605
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/09/anti-vax-radio-hosts-dying-covid
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/antivaxxer-alan-steel-covid-death-b956114.html
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57958358
https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/anti-vaxxer-turns-vaccine-advocate-after-husband-dies-from-covid-19/2709975/
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/texas-covid-girl-anti-vax-mom-b1918895.html
https://www.nydailynews.com/coronavirus/ny-covid-bob-enyart-anti-vaxxer-anti-lgbtq-dies-coronavirus-denver-pastor-20210914-rqnf5qjemvekxaiu3u77eqltsm-story.html
https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210907/tiktok-creator-covid-death-get-the-vaccine
Of course this could all be fake news 😉
Meh, it’s just cherry-picked news to create a very specific narrative, i.e. that you literally die if you don’t get vaxxed (the real-world data of course proves that hopelessly wrong, as is even seen here in New Zealand with over a 1,000 cases now and zero deaths). I’ll counter your cherry-picked stuff with this cherry-picked stuff:
https://theexpose.uk/2021/09/16/news-channel-gets-over-182000-responses-of-vaccine-injuries-and-deaths/
Pretty shocking, huh?
Ill counter with my own anecdotal evidence. Of all the people I know who have been vaccinated none have suffered an adverse event and most importantly none have died.
That’s exactly my point; the same is true for the vast majority of people that have had COVID.
https://cihr-irsc.gc.ca/e/52424.html#tl
The long road to the mRNA vaccines all the details here.
Well worth the watch from the Canadian institute of Health Research.
I’m starting to like the picture that is developing.
The dummies are going to die because of not being vaccinated. Those with a low QI from the spectrum of left-right and the righteous wankas as well and the truly demented. So, fuck’em!
Maybe there really is a ‘God?’
It’s going to be really interesting to see how this plays out over the next 12-24 months given the comments and article above.
The vaccines are very effective at reducing infection rates and especially serious infection resulting in hospitalisation and death. There are rare side effects but (with the potential exception of young males) it is FAR less risky than getting COVID itself, especially in the absence early treatment.
However
* The vaccines are very leaky, meaning they reduce infection (40-60% with Delta) but do not stop it or transmission (plus the viral loads carried in the nose and mouth are little different between vaccinated and unvaccinated), hence it makes sense to apply COVID protocols such as masks to the vaccinated.
* Vaccine immunity offers narrow protection (as it focuses on a single protein) and seems to trail off over time according to the Israeli data, noticeably after 6 months.
* Boosters may not work indefinitely, the immune system is complicated and more is not always better. 3rd, 4th, 5th boosters shots could actually shut down immunity rather than promote it.
Very leaky vaccines creates a situation analogous to the over prescription of antibiotics which creates a selection pressure promoting the emergence of variants that are vaccine resistant. Although selection pressure may also make new variants less dangerous over time.
In short vaccination is worthwhile but i’d speculate it’s a stop-gap rather than a solution and if that turns out to be true, anti-vaxx people are the least of your troubles and in the end, other treatments (including vaccines with broader and more enduring protection) may be required.
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