Kabul has fallen, the arrogance of the West & their 9/11 revenge fantasy has been humiliated
The speed of the Afghan Government collapse highlights it was always a mere fiction & fantasy by America.
I was deeply involved in the anti-war movement in NZ 20 years ago and everything we claimed would happen has now come to pass with America’s withdrawal and Afghan collapse.
The cost has been horrific.
Over 70000 Afghan Civilians dead.
Over 70000 Afghan soldiers dead.
Over 23500 US & NATO soldiers wounded and dead.
10 NZ soldiers dead.
4million refugees.
And a financial cost of over $2Trillion. We bombed a Bronze Age people into the Stone Age & called it progress.
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Its an inditement on the West isn’t it. Approximately 2 trillion has been spent over there to Westernise the country and within 30 days of Biden’s exit back to square one.
One has to ask if 1 trillion dollars was spent on a Afghanistan military – what was it spent on as it doesn’t look like the Taliban has anything but 20yr old RPGs and kalashnikovs…..
I see the old coot has gone on ‘holiday’. Does that just not sum up the US atm. Even the American feckless appear not enamoured by his leadership. Best quote of the day though – the wally up north, Justy is going to protect the Afgani LGBT community. I’m sure the Taliban are listening Justy.
Clear that the Afghan people were not committed when it counted to fighting against the Taliban . . at some point they had to be left to ‘fight their own battles’ and when they were it all collapsed like a house of cards.
I pity in particular the women of Afghanistan who are now going to sucked back into a Islamic fundamentalist nightmare . .
Once the AAF went crump during the week or during last week, it appears the morale of the ANDF & the ANP fell off a cliff as the AAF could no longer provide the necessary CAS & Sustainment of those outlying ANDF & ANP positions/ post as the AAF Logistics & Sustainment Systems collapse under severe strain due to the lost of the US/ ISAF Logistics & the various Trainers, Mentors & Advisors.
Scud. Don’t know what all the acronyms mean but if the drift of what you say is. The USA has failed and didn’t intend to resource the various outposts and strategic areas with weapons ammo and food etc and this has led to the complete collapse of the defence’s I think I agree. If this is true the USA are scum or complete fuckwits. Not sure which.
I take it all to mean that once the Americans pulled out the Afghan army / police no longer had the ability to call in air strikes that up to that point they had been primarily relying on to keep the Taliban at bay . . however this should have been anticipated and at the end of the day you can arm and train an army but crucially they also need the will to fight (which is exactly what has been found to be lacking).
Sorry New Veiw
AAF- Afghanistan Airforce
ANDF Afghanistan National Defence Force
ANA Afghanistan National Army
ANP Afghanistan National Police
CAS Close Air Support
ISAF Is the NATO led International Stabilisation Assistance Force
Once the US & it Allies withdrew its Mentoring, Advisors, Trainers Liaison, Technical Maintainers and the Logistics Support. Note this is the next crucial phase of the COIN Warfare once the stabilisation phase is finished, as you transition from Combat Ops to a training / Mentoring Advising Role (note this is also very similar to what we did in Timor-Leste from 99 to 2004 under a UN Mandate).
The morale slowly started to slip, as the Logistics & Sustainment slowly start to drop as the minor outposts fell, then the minor Towns which a still connected by dirt roads to the Major Provincial Capitals which were ow full of IDP’s.
By then the wheels/ wings started to fall off the AAF as they couldn’t sustain the rate of CAS & Sustainment Missions as serviceability of the Rotary & Wing Aircraft fell off a cliff. Then there was a general reluctance to the Defence of the provincial capitals for the fear of mass casualties, the Taliban using human shields which already happened in some areas & as ANDF & ANP lost control of the roads including those tar sealed roads.
Those outlying Provinces incl Capitals quickly fell & momentum gathered speed for the Taliban as the AAF effectively crease operations. So when the Taliban realised that the Western AirPower weren’t going to support the Afghan Security Forces.
The Taliban put the foot down in a blitzkrieg like fashion once they had the total freedom of movement on the battlefield which allowed them to seize those bigger Provincial Capital Cities & finally seize Kabul before winter sets in in 2mths time which heavily restricts all road movement throughout Afghanistan.
COIN ?
Counter insurgency.
Google it.
The police work for a city, NZDF works for the nation, the constitution and the people. The Prime Minister is elected by its party and who are in turn elected by the people.
But what exactly is The Labour Party and how do they fit into the structure of The New Zealand Defence Force.
When there is a lack of definition of the responsibilities different organisations have then there will be problems.
For the most part The Labour Party is a monotheistic organisation dedicated to keeping seats warm. A schism occurs when some Labour MPs become infatuated with Milton Freedman and would lead to the rise of Neokindness.
People like Hellen Clark do try to help out the NZDF but for the most part, Clark was trying to remain neutral.
NZDF systems and structures and philosophy doesnt mesh well with the burdens of governance and neither does governance mesh well with the burden of command. But eventually not only will The Labour Party Policy of defence estate revitalisation allow defence personal to settle in New Zealand with both far reaching (so 10,000 Km combat range with air and sea tankers) light and heavy air and sealift capabilities allow defence personal to remained based in New Zealand.
The Labour Party I believe think that NZDF is a tool for peace and regional stability which is a good thing but it was also what John Key was after. But Hellen Clark did get us into Afghanistan and Jacinda had to get us out and generally did a better job of policing The NZDF than John Key did and should be the opposite of corrupt and evil or so some may think.
Afghanistan, particularly Bamyan Province will likely never know the wonders of the 21st century let alone the wonders of the 22nd century and even that was a quickly made executive decision made out of desperation. Not much thought went into introducing Afghanis into the 21st century.
A lack of boundaries in how the NZDF could operate in Afghanistan (and I’m pulling from Star Treks prime directive not to fuck with developing nations) leads to the lack of experience The Labour Party has in warfare, even learning nothing from its experience in WW2. Like Hellen Clark and The Greens, The Labour is known for sitting out entire conflicts even though his hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians would be killed for instance.
And because of a lack of definition then any atrocities or war crimes should directly go back to the Prime Minister because they assume all of the responsibilities and all of the risk.
Now is the time to defeat the nuclear moment of our time.
When the Russians pulled out of Afghanistan the puppet government they had set up lasted a good couple of years before it too fell. I could stand to be corrected here, but I recall it happening only after the withdrawal of Russian funding after the collapse of the Communists in Moscow in the early 1990s. The post Russian government were very capable of standing up to the Mujahedeen up till then.
The current fiasco didn’t last much more than a couple of weeks after the Allies withdrawal. I heard the Taliban advances were about the same speed as someone driving a motor scooter across the country, with them meeting very, very little actual resistance such was the state of near total collapse.
How do the Western governments get it so wrong so often?
Urinalbushrat. The answer to your question is best summed up in the expression of what the USA did in Vietnam….. “we had to destroy the village to save it “. In other words they never get the local people on their side.
Indeed Garibaldi. I wonder if the Chinese will now make some move and implement some sort of Marshall Plan. Afghanistan sits on some rather valuable mineral resources including rare earths and lithium.
“In other words they never get the local people on their side.”
Why should they take the side of the brutal invaders and their conies extracting millions with mercenaries and contractors.
We were told the NZDF was a reconstruction team- that was a lie.
I’m seeing deja vu Vietnam.
Ardern quoted in RNZ today as saying NZ “made a difference” in Afghanistan.
LOL. What an utterly stupid statement to make when the evidence suggests the direct opposite. It would be nice to have a media that would pull her up when she makes utter tripe comments such as this.
Seem to recall that there were flowery stories about how much development work was being achieved by the NZ presence, only for it to be smacked down by people who were on the ground and informed. Seems the major achievement was providing cover for US spy agencies.
The cynic in me says follow the money.
Who profits from wars?
Who doesn’t profit from peace? Why its the military industrial complex. The whole thing from Korea, Cold War, Vietnam, Iraq, Central America, Eritrea, Afghanistan has made them a lot of dosh. Not one war won but the money, the money!!!!
Perhaps one war won – Grenada October 1983. Formidable foe eh? Grenada was a British colony until nine years earlier but seemingly, the ties were limited to those around the wrists of Britain as they didn’t offer even a slight murmur of condescension.
Excellent stuff @ MB.
Fascist capitalism is certainly an efficient enabler of the psychopathic right wing.
The System Of A Down clip was fantastic.
For those who think that Afghanistan is simply returning to its natural state, it should be noted that the country by the 1960’s had embarked on a program of modernisation in urban areas. This faced increasing resistance after the deposotion of the monarchy and two coups in the later 1970’s due to the way it was carried out. Following the final coup there followed a program of rural land reform and a program of violently enforced modernisation, quote:”Many of the victims were village mullahs and headmen who were obstructing the modernization and secularization of the intensely religious Afghan countryside. By Western standards, this was a salutary idea in the abstract. But it was carried out in such a violent way that it alarmed even the Soviets.” Resistance to modernisation started even before the soviet intervention and stoking of it by the west. Ignoring the military aspects at the beginning it is interesting to consider what would have happened if the changes introduced gradually in the 1960s had been allowed to continue as you can see in this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPME0mMice8
Much of the modern infrastructure in Afghanisatan can be traced to this period.
Another horrendous screw up by the West, of a country that should never have been invaded.
This is also worth listening to. https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018807431/kiwi-journalist-on-what-really-happened-to-ba-flight-149
Kiwis were raped and abused for years, and our government did nothing. In fact while other citizens got compensation when the ordeal finally came to an end (by Sadam Hussain releasing the hostages not them being rescued), in NZ they only compensated the Kiwis for their luggage. I guess the mentality in NZ puts the loss of luggage before the loss and abuse of people.
One of the motivations of Osama bin Ladin was related to the incident above, as revenge for US propping up the Saudi Government.
I guess this is the most embarrassing US military adventure since Vietnam. American’s I know are super miffed about this – they hate losing, esepcailyl since they three trillions of dollars and thousands of lives (not to mention the physically and mentally scarred). Will be a bad a look for Biden, especially once all the new Taliban Islam religious nuttery (I guess I can still say that before Jacinda’s new laws make it a crime) take hold.
9/11 had nothing to do with Afghanistan, and was simply a pretext to go into Afghanistan and wreck the place, and make it safe for American corporations.
Epic fail, as with everything America does.
Yes. And the once-fine Buddhist philosophy was tragically obliterated too. And, New Zealand – or whatever Westpac and other slobbering pc immigrants name us- needs to drop the simplistic pretence about trying to help exploited peoples up in the Hindu Kush when we were always part of the terror.
Gah,… entirely predictable outcome.
The revenge part was OK. They wiped out Al Qaeda and got Osama.
Where they went wrong was in thinking that they could liberalize an entrenched feudal society by force of arms and cash. The stole the cash and turns the arms against their benefactor.
Oh come on. They got Osama did they???
What ever this is, is far from winning conditions.
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