Analysing the ‘Howl of a Protest’ – why Labour shouldn’t panic (yet) and how do we tell Farmers it’s over for them?

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The size of the farmer protests should seriously wipe the smug condescension off the Woke on Twitter.

I don’t think NZ Farmers have a working definition of socialism, communism or democracy if they are claiming Jacinda is making NZ a socialist state

Labour won their unprecedented MMP victory because Jacinda’s Covid leadership won over hundreds of thousands of 45+ female voters who John Key had won over in 2008 when they were in their 30s.

Those 45+ women voters want EVs and love the rebate, the naked truth is that the majority of Men driving Utes don’t vote Labour.

The truth is water quality now impacts everyone and the pollution of that water from dairy intensification won’t be tolerated.

TDB Recommends NewzEngine.com

The truth is climate change is real and we can’t allow cows to keep contributing to that.

The truth is Farmers are selling productive land to the Americans and Chinese and we must stop this for our own national interest.

The truth is the National Party are in decline and Farmers can’t get them to sell 49% of our state owned energy assets to create an irrigation slush fund worth $400million to convert as many square inches of NZ into intensified dairy farms!

The truth is that large scale corporate Dairy is a sunset industry with synthetic milk and meat likely to produce far cheaper and less environmentally damaging food, (plus an end of cruelty to the animals themselves)…

Milk shake – Why the future of dairy looks scary

At a lab in San Francisco, scientists working for New Zealand synthetic dairy start-up New Culture are trying to work out how they can produce mozzarella that looks, tastes and very importantly stretches like the real thing. Across the Pacific at home in Auckland, the company’s founder Matt Gibson says, as a vegan himself, the plant-based cheese offerings that refuse to melt properly and fail to satisfy in the taste department drew him towards exploring yeast fermented dairy protein, that cuts out the need for cows.

Plant-based diets are moving from niche to mainstream as consumers become more aware of the issues of animal welfare, climate change and pressure to feed the growing population. And this shift is predicted to be a huge disruption for New Zealand dairy, as makers of lab-produced products race to take over the ingredients market our farmers rely on.

Yeast fermentation of dairy protein is not an entirely new idea. But figuring out how to make it cheaper than real dairy, minimising its environmental impact and getting over the hurdle of consumer reluctance towards genetic modification are still being worked out.

But New Zealand dairy insider, food technologist and founder of multiple dairy start-ups Danielle Appleton, says it’s other Californian start-ups using similar technology specifically to ferment dairy bulk ingredients that could bring New Zealand’s biggest export commodity to its knees.

The vast majority of New Zealand dairy ends up not as recognisable, nicely marketed products in the supermarket fridge, but as anonymous milk-based powders like whey protein and casein. These powders are mostly sold to big food and manufacturing companies as ingredients. Appleton says what comes from New Zealand paddocks ends up in not just obvious products like chocolate, yoghurts or packets of cheese sauce powder.

“When someone like me in the dairy industry thinks about milk, I think about the milk sugar that goes into paracetamol. I think about some of the ingredients used to make wine really crystal clear. Some other stuff that might surprise you are frozen foods, so often [dairy powder is used] to stop your chicken strips or bits of potato sticking together in the freezer and my favorite, [unusual place dairy ends up] is furniture paint.”

In Gibson’s lab, the milk used to make cheese is created by taking a gene that contains what he describes as the ‘instruction manual’ for a dairy protein. That set of instructions is then introduced to microbes, essentially teaching them how to make dairy proteins. When his scientists put the microbes in a fermentation tank, they ferment sugar, turning it into dairy. The scientists then harvest the proteins and combine them with plant-based fats to create a milk-like solution.

…it is time we amputated corporate Dairy before it collapses and drags the entire country into a massive economic black hole. Technology will leap frog dairy, and the millisecond synthetic milk and meat can meet consumer taste, flavour and texture at a fraction of the price, it’s over!

We need to create a sinking cap on the number of cows with a view to reducing any of the benefits Dairy have used to prop up their sunset industry and divert that resource into new industries, new technology and new research and development. As many Dairy farms need to be converted to forests as quickly as possible and focus needs to be on providing for the domestic market and not the international market any longer.

Farmers feed 40 million people but we need them to just feed the 5million of us!

Labour shouldn’t panic, these Utes & Tractors don’t vote for us, but if this anger spreads to the suburbs via Hate Speech backlash – we are fucked!

 

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128 COMMENTS

  1. Interesting idea but how do you suggest we offset the loss of income that would entail to NZ Inc? Last time I checked money still doesn’t grow on trees

    • Correct it does not grow on trees, but it IS created out of thin air by a select few of the ‘uber wealthy’, who are the ALLOWED to charge interest. Great work if you can get it, or be born into it; conveniently born !
      Used to be done by Government but at various stages the ‘really rich’ eased it away from democratically elected Governments, by slight of hand or through convenient Govt stupidity.
      The Federal reserve act 1913 (ish) is the biggest contributor. Although it is NOT Federal and has NO RESERVES. For you and I, it’s called counterfeiting and we’d go to jail.
      That is 90+% of the reason for almost ANY problem we (the 90%) have in the world and fixing that is WAY WAY MORE important than petty political bickering. It’s akin to arguing which record to play at a party in stowage class down below, as the Titanic is sinking.
      Read up on Fractional reserve lending and Fiat currencies (by private central banks), if you are unaware of this.
      p.s. Fruit growing on trees is also fairly close to money growing on trees.

    • Yeyi, to me your comment identifies the root cause of where we find ourselves. The economic system we have is busy destroying our planet – do we just continue to allow this destruction to occur in the name of profit or do we change the economic system so as it drives environmentally sustainable profit.

  2. How do we tell farmers it’s over for them?
    I don’t think you can @ Martyn. To an extent, I agree with much of @Countryboy’s opinions when it comes to farmers, and he has a battle on his hands trying to convince them that the gNats, banksters et al are not their friends.
    Then there’s this: http://norightturn.blogspot.com/2021/07/a-howl-of-ugliness.html Valid points there as they undermine much of their own argument.
    And what amused me watching the tractor protests across various towns and cities were the tractors themselves. All but one I saw relatively the latest. Wanted, but not necessarily needed that they’d got themselves in hock for. Then the double cab back on the farm, plus the runaround for the missus.
    And look how they fucked Fonterra as a cooperative when it was sabotaged and marketised and put in the hands of the wideboys when their were warnings as it was being fucked at the time. THEY voted for its destruction.
    Kieran McNulty may well be right (correct).
    For the arseholes amongst them – diddums. Many of them are full of it.
    For those that genuinely give a shit and are prepared to take responsibility for the environmental damage they’ve already done and atone for it – kudos and best of luck. It’s not as though there hasn’t been adequate warnings that things need to change.
    Otherwise pffft – next

  3. On the lighter side, the bike lobby/Greater Auckland/bus spotting fraternity must have been absolutely beside themselves with all those Ute’s and I can’t believe in saying it, tractors, invading their Queen St playground. I can only hope they obeyed the 30 km/hr speed limit

    Wall to wall internal combustion engines. The irony is off the scale.

    Will nobody think of the children?

    • So true Xray.
      If only the farmers had been wearing bike pants or a gang patch the government would have chucked $700 million at a bridge or something for them.

  4. Oh wait…? There you are! ?
    “Farmers feed 40 million people but we need them to just feed the 5million of us!”
    Then side with them. Not against them. Where’s adern when collins was blowing out toxic gasses to desperate ears?
    And I’m staggered at how little you know about agriculture, of it’s complex nature and not only of the means by which people farm but farmers themselves? How can that be when we’re inherently fucking agrarian!?
    national are the enemy. This farmer says that! National are more than the enemy… they’re satan incarnate.
    national are manipulative and exploitative of farmers on a scale that’s way beyond measure. Their ability to maintain that level of manipulative exploitation doesn’t stop at using neoliberalism to fold labour under nationals leathery wings nor has that changed.
    We’re witnessing a level of propaganda only dreamed of by the Russians, the Chinese and of course the most propagandist of all, the U$A, for its bold beginnings and enormously profitable ends.
    Back in the late 1930’s right wing banker and money lender parties formed a coalition and that big blue rat in the sewers became the national party. The same national party that’s got a freak show in a frock lying to farmers as I write.
    The invisible wall of mesmerising misinformation that exists between farmers and urban people is astounding for its criminal brilliance.
    “Labour shouldn’t panic, these Utes & Tractors don’t vote for us, but if this anger spreads to the suburbs via Hate Speech backlash – we are fucked!”
    What the fuck do you mean? How the fuck do you know who votes for who?
    Hate Speech backlash ! ? Where the fuck does that Machiavellian and confederate bullshit come from? Who’s fucked? We wondrous city lefties who’ve been suckling on farmer money tits for nearly one hundred years? You wondrous, rogue righties who literally scam farmers out of their money into your bankster buddies pocketsesss so that money can be laundered into spendable coin to buy your 20 th house which you visit in your fucking Tesla?
    I live in the city and I see a fuck load more ‘ute’s’ in the city than in any country town. The difference being farmers NEED 4×4 utes where-as city people simply use them to extend their little cocks.
    I lived on Bayfield Rd in Ponsonby and I saw many Ferrari, Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Bentley, Range Rover Vogue etc but not one tractor…? What does that tell you ? Take your time.
    I say well fucking done Farmers! For standing up and being heard. Or herd, if you prefer. Either, ironically, will work.
    Now? How about a nice wee strike? Just a little one? C’mon? You can do it? For a year? One little year. No one will notice. It’s not like you’re vital members of the community like real estate agents, bankers, lawyers, cops, quacks, media personalities and sundry arse polishers, prancing nancy pavement pounders? Just a wee strike?
    BTW? That Natzo’s they’re far more your enemy than we townies can ever be.

    • Countryboy, do you remember the times when the left represented the ‘workers and farmers’ parties? Those days are gone.

      I’m in the organic/regen/agroforester camp. Long time organic certified, actively building soil carbon, planted 300,000 trees, all waterways fenced off, do not use any soluble fertiliser, maximise animal health, no pugging, no erosion. I’m a stupid bastard who planted masses of native trees, and Labour wants to punish me with their SNA legislation! I will be the first farm in the distict to go broke if Labour get all their regulations through, because they are incapable of seeing that their top down Wellingron-centric ideological rules will kill all sustainable farming first!

      I was once a Green voter, back in the days when they were an environmental party. All the organic farmers I know now are intending to vote for National or ACT. This should tell Labour something, but I doubt they care.

      I was in the protest today, and proud of it.

      • How much of your organic product do you export I’m wondering is it even equitable to be in business if you don’t?

      • @ Ben Waimata. Well done you. All AO/NZ’ers should be proud of you.
        We all eat the foods you grow so we should be. And we should also be on your side politically and in proper numbers.
        Any protest coming from farmers is a start. It doesn’t matter that one might support the national party of labour or any one of the other political chaff that’s thrown about to confuse and obscure farmer/Urban dialogue. Once protest is a finely tuned machine i.e. an entity above and beyond the machinations of right wing, all bought and paid for MSM back stabbers, Machiavellian confederates and anyone else who’s a paid national/right wing dollar fascist neoliberal ‘influencer’ change can be brought about.
        It’s simply a matter of change. The infrastructure’s there. It just needs to be drenched and crutched.
        When I was a younger man on our farm we used to clean out all the local commercial hen farms for chicken shit and along with blood and bone, dag manure, wool and all, because wool composts beautifully, as you certainly will know and sheep shit from under the wool shed we’d spread that about on any new earthworks like dozing faces off banks or after tiling etc . We’d grow vegetables so enormous mum had to use a crow bar to leverage the parsnips from the soil.
        Chemical farming is a scam. Overstocking is as a direct result of bankster manipulations
        who are the biggest scammers of them all, of which there are many. Lying fucking scammers who ruin people’s lives after throwing AO/NZ under a chemical soaked bus.
        I have to say this.
        The national party ARE NOT your buddies. They’re not your comrades. They’re not your friends and they don’t work in your, the AO/NZ farmer’s best interests but who cares?
        In the short term, I don’t care what the natzos or labour et al do. Farmers will figure them out sooner or later. What’s important is to build a solid agri-political infrastructure then learn how to drive it.
        But beware of the cunning Machiavellian Confederate.
        Go you @ Ben.

        • I’m genuinely interested if it is posable to grow just for the local market as most of the organic growers I know are orchardists into Avocado’s Feijoas mandarins etc mostly for export and I totally agree Banks have been trapping farmers into credit since the beginning of time rinse and repeat! I come here to read your comments that I love and find hilarious. I wish i had the dexterity with English that you wield sir.

    • Love this post! Mate, you should have your own blog.
      Let me start by saying I support farmers who use sustainable practices. I come from farming stock, but have been a townie all my life. I live in the city now. I’m vegan. I don’t own a ute.
      All of NZ have subsidised farmers over the years through their taxes so to say we owe them a debt of gratitude isn’t entirely fair.
      The “sunset” of the dairy industry will be very long so the idea of impending doom isn’t accurate.

    • One of the major problems that farmers who want to try more environmentally sustainable face, is they must justify their decisions to the banker who “owns” the farm (debt) that they slave on & often they will shut down any innovation that doesn’t fit with their concept of “standard farming practices for maximising return on investment”. So again it is city folk acting as a barrier to more sustainable farming practices. Bankers & the invisible hand are once again the source of much of what is wrong with our society.

    • Apropos of which, a letter in the DomPost this morning, penned by Dave Smith:

      “No farmers, no food; basically true.
      No nurses, no care.
      No urban dwellers, no market.
      No fishermen, no fish.
      No police or Parliament, no order.
      No aircrew, no overseas trips.
      No mariners, no crops delivered.
      No engineers, no utes.
      We live in an interdependant world. Nobody is indispensible.”

      Get the picture? Some truths lurking therein. methinks.

  5. I am sure many that thought Labour was their salvation will think what a good idea it is to protest . There are plenty of groups out there that are suffering under this government. Those with mental health those needing hospital care from nurses who are not burnt out benefituries who got a pretend rise which has gone in the 3. 3 per cent inflation the 190000 children in poverty
    those businesses due to lose business because they have no Maori shareholders businesses that a looking for staff to stay afloat doctors and dentists who do not warrent a rise anybody effected by family not being able to return because of the stuff up MIQ is . That should fill a few squares around the country.
    The only ones not joining in will be landlords and homeowners who will be guarding their investment as the police are too busy trying to control the gangs

  6. Then of course there’s Jen and Burton to consider. I wouldn’t want to be responsible for her to have to consider the alternatives to high-necked blue chiffon or be responsible for having to explain why Burton is basically a bit of a thick shit. Please – think of the children! AND Westpac ffs! It could be catastrofuk @Martyn. Reputations could be damaged and then where would we be?

  7. I’m wondering how many of those tractors are actually road legal. Not to mention how many of those ute’s are on farm use rego’s that restrict the distance etc they can be driven on the road. Surely the police should be putting up road blocks and checking them along with licences and impounding vehicles that are not allowed on the road. Or is it one law for bikers and another for farmers? Considering its farmers and other of their type that squeal about police going light on biker funerals and the like, its pretty hypocritical.

    • Hypocritical….

      Groundswell stressed endlessly that every vehicle had to be registered, safe and road legal, and all road rules obeyed. But don’t let facts get in the way of the charge of hypocrisy, they’re only bloddy farmers eh?

      • Groundswell is a pretty good and apt name for farmers who have no problem with pollution when you consider that when a body part that is sick tends to swell.

        • Dear Kim. ” Kimmy? Look me in the eyes, not around the eyes? Look at moi? Look at Moi? ”
          I’ll try to be brief.
          Back on our sheep, cow and cropping farm in central Southland from about 1948 to 1970 my family never used chemical fertilisers. They didn’t need to. We ran about three thousand big fat Romney’s and even fatter Herefords to all but give away to even fatter fucking townies who gave us what THEY thought was a fair price and because farmers were perpetually kept in debt by the natzo’s besties the dreaded useless, worthless banksters. Because farmers had no means of defence against the rapacious greed of the office aliens who floated about in the jizz of their own importance farmers were forced to increase stock number which increased the need for artificial fertilisers, drenches and injectables.
          Kimmy? You seem to want to blame someone so ok then? Blame the real actual proper polluters. The Banks and their besties, the Natzo’s.
          You really think farmers want to spend money of the likes of Round Up just to grow a spud you can suck on?

  8. Well, the majority of ute owners are suburbanistas!
    Buuut! Will these clowns get tickets from the Popo for no rego, no warrant and no licence plates!? Or just the ones driven by Mowrees?!

  9. No filthy rivers, No cows farting, no inefficient water usage, no bovine diseases, no unhappy cows to the slaughter, and no whinging farmers. Sounds wonderful! We’ll have to keep some produce farmers though. After the cull they may cease whinging. Either way, they’d be more manageable 🙂

  10. A great piece of writing Martyn, and so true. Imagine the carbon footprint of the protest today. But then I guess it was only marginally more than the carbon footprint of any working day on farms across NZ.
    And by the way, it’s not cow’s farting that’s the problem, it’s their burping. As ruminant animals they release methane as they chew their cud. I heard some cow-cocky (I think it was Gisborne district councillor Kerry Warsnop) on RNZ this morning and she didn’t even know that, she kept saying it was methane coming from their backsides. She also spent quite a bit of time denying that methane was a problem for climate change. These farmers (and councillors) really need some sort of education program. Besides the dangers of methane they don’t know the actual meaning of the term ‘communist’.
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018804231/mass-rural-protest-across-the-country
    By the way, the so-called “Clean” or cellular meats industry now appears to be part of the meat industry’s long-term strategy of creating a diverse “protein market” that still includes meat from live animals. “Hopes that Clean Meat might be part of the solution to the many ethical and ecological problems with animal agriculture now appear to be a distraction from the fundamental issues, papering over the problem of human mass violence against animals, and obscuring the urgent need for a plant-based human diet.”
    https://www.cleanmeat-hoax.com/

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNt8g_AZlMc

  11. Missed it by a country mile Bomber. We don’t just farm cows and we don’t just export dairy products. And you can stick the synthetic dairy products where the sun don’t shine. Is today Soylent green day?
    If so I won’t be consing it.And neither will millions more.
    Any hoo the issues farmers and rural people concerned themselves with( in the North) were the Hate Speech laws,and the SNA’s . So yeah you’re not onto this one at all and any one who thinks the agricultural sector which earns our country it’s wealth far and above any other sector of the economy is irrelevant and has no power is utterly deluded and woefully ignorant.
    Oh and there are NO ELECTRIC UTES in production anywhere on the planet. So Jacinda and James need to pull their heads in! Land Transport contributes 18% of carbon emissions.( Source Victoria University 2017) Air travel contributes 29%. Air travel is NOT included in the Paris Agreement and neither is Shipping,which contributes more emissions than Land transport.So the Paris agreement is Bullshit and Farmers are scapegoats. The government is full of shit has no plan and is only interested in being seen to do something about climate change . They haven’t got the brains the ability or the knowledge to tackle climate change. Any fool with half an eye can see that this is divide and rule . Shame on useless Labour. Social cohesion ? yeah right!

    • Agree Shona.
      Let’s overlook the fact the moralizing climate clergy are living in the city and literally pumping human shit in to their water, and let’s look past the fact we will be burning dirty Indonesian coal to generate the electricity for any new EVs bought subsidised by the evil farmers.
      And let’s look at who was at the protests: farmers, tradies, workers, townspeople, contractors, professionals.
      Will these people have their lives cancelled by people who think they know better but know nothing?
      Today says, they will not.

      • Please expand/justify the comment ……….’the fact we will be burning dirty Indonesian coal to generate the electricity for any new EVs bought’.
        Isn’t NZ 90+% renewable electricity. And 90+% of EV drivers I know, like myself use our photovoltaic solar cells to charge or EV’s. And 90+% of future EV charging of those without PVC’s will be at night, when the demand is at its minimum, means there will be NO (huge or otherwise) increase in daytime demand or for new power stations etc.
        Maybe consider ALL the wars and SUFFERING due to oil exploitation around the world for 100+ years in the mix of this ‘blame game’.
        EV’s are NOT the solution, but they DO mitigate the problem.
        The solution is MASS public transport for almost everything (think 90%’s again). But given modern day ‘brain dead’ citizens (90%) can’t get their head around this idea, EV are the best ‘band aid’ solution until it all goes ‘pip’s up’.
        As both sides of this argument are the wrong solution, then both sides will have some ‘winning shots’. But that’s because the discussion is bullsh%t, but please don’t let that get in the way with arguing whilst the Titanic goes down.

        If I had to guess as to the best solution TODAY where people DEMANDED ‘door to door’ transport, where public transport as we understand it, isn’t acceptable (a dying man arguing with the firing squad comes to mind), Driverless (automated) EV’s taxis would cut the demand for cars by 90% and the tarmac for parking by 95%. They work today, are 90% safer than humans (and getting twice as good every 18 months).
        BUT corrupt politicians and wealthy elites who UTTERLY control the media/propaganda for 99% of the people, means we’ll ignore that solution as we speed over the cliff, ala ‘Thelma and Louise’ style, berating those that are trying to warn of the cliff, dead ahead.

          • Here you go Kevin, from the spin-off:
            https://thespinoff.co.nz/business/16-07-2021/bernard-hickey-a-solar-panel-for-every-roof/
            “ The Climate Commission assumes that car owners will opt en-masse to switch to electric vehicles, in part because it expects electricity costs to drop 30%. Right now, wholesale electricity costs have tripled in 12 months and NZ burned through one million tonnes of coal last year. ”

            That million tonnes of high emission coal is freighted in oil burning ships from Indonesia and then 23 diesel burning truckloads are delivered to the generator every day, even without any more EVs on the road.
            Never mind using our own local sourced lower emission coal, it’s bad for the environment you know.

            Remember the recent cold snap when Auckland turned their heaters on at night and we couldn’t even burn enough dirty coal to keep up and the power generators also added in diesel generators?
            Short memory?

            So you want rural people -who have no other electric options to pay more, so urban people can drive more EVs using electricity generated by burning dirty fossil fuels.

            See the problem?

            First the government needs to upgrade the network and increase generation (without making more emissions) plus or minus solar which B Hickey mentions, then we need viable agricultural electrical vehicles with long ranges and all electrical vehicles need sustainable, affordable battery recycling and THEN we incentivize people buying them.
            Do you see?
            Why punish the rural people with no option so urbanites can kid themselves they are helping the environment?

        • No Kevin NZ is not 90% renewable. In fact it’s less renewable now that it was when Jacinda became PM, she is a dirty leader of a dirty party that is making NZ dirtier than it was and it needs to be….not to mention a raving hypocrite out of both Herself and NZ.

        • On the EV thing, I do not think enough people have actually stopped to think about the impact to our electrical network and what we would need to do to make the switch to a fleet entirely made up of EV’s.

          Using the govt stats from 2019…

          In 2019 NZ produced 10622 GWh of electricity, of this 9802 GWH was consumed in total (losses in transmission and distribution account for the variance).
          Agriculture, Industry and Residential usage accounted for 99.0% of this consumption.

          Thinking about vehicles
          The average driver in NZ does about 15000km per year
          The average EV requires 25kW h / 100km
          In 2019 there were 3362819 cars on the road
          Let’s say we flipped all of these to EVs what we would need in extra power generation?
          3362819 cars driving 15,000 km per year equals 50,442,285,000 km
          (Total Km’s divided by 100) x 25 to find the required number of kW’s required is 12,610,571,250 kW
          This as GW is 12610.6

          Oddly enough that more than our entire electrical network produced in 2019 before we even turned a light on so how on earth are we going to power all these EV’s given the RMA and the like will make it almost impossible to build more damns, the effectiveness of wind farms is a fallacy and Jacinda’s captains call on energy has pulled the rug out on gas exploration so that’s a no go.

          It just doesn’t add up.

          • Driverless taxis would mean a 90% drop in number of cars needed.
            Solar panels instead of ALL power from the grid.
            Modest EV’s do more like 6-7kms to the Kw, so nearly twice as good as you suggest. Like I.C.E depends on how hard you drive it and what model/size you have. Tesla’s goin 0-100 in 2.5. secs, versus Nissan Leaf driven normally.
            NOTHING in history changed overnight, so those calculations are misleading. Cars would be illogical by your argument, as they couldn’t replace all horses overnight as not enough petrol stations, oil being produced. good enough roads etc.
            Even if you simply used the petrol used today, in oil power station for electricity, we’d still be WAY better off, as EV’s are 90% efficient and ICE about 15-20%. Plus all pollution at one location, thus easier to control, versus pollution in cities with people walking alongside the tail pipe.
            And most importantly as I said. E,V’s are NOT the solution they are the best option if we can’t come to our collective senses and use public transport.

    • Thank You Shona! Good post. Amazing how the liberal academic urbanites diss the farmers who helped build this country. They didn’t farm the NZ lamb that all the world craves. By boy, do roast it at home and as they hate on farmers while they make a trim latte with cows milk to wash it down. Milk they didn’t get up at 4am for. Folks enjoy that fake mozzarella. We’ll watch your face as you tuck in and feel sick. As for Shaw and his SNA? Farmers will much know better than him what is significant. Picture him sitting in his Beehive office sporting his slick corporate Armani suit and shiny green silk tie. What a sanctimonious politician with ham fisted communication skills. What does he know about the land and farming let alone how to talk to farmers? Only what he gets from computer models and Beehive handbooks. The sooner he gets rolled by a real Greeny the better. Hopefully before the next election. It’ll be good for the Green Party.
      Shona, Jacinda claims there is no urban/rural divide….hahahaha her govt is engineering it right there.

      • What an utterly illogical argument you put forward there. JUST because society happily uses what farmers ‘grow’ doesn’t 100% mean that society should except EVERYTHING that a farmers does MUST be correct.
        The vast majority of Germans (and feel free to replace that with many other nationality) lived well during the 1930’s (pick any era), but that didn’t mean that National Socialism (pick almost any corrupt political system) was THUS a good idea.

      • So do tell me why the farmers collective has not come up with a plan as to what they can and will do. I mean a proper plan not just some airy fairy stuff generalised stuff.

        After all they have known for a long time that the run off from farming is causing serious degradation of fresh water.

        I live in Canterbury, I don ‘t eat meat, a little cheese, no milk. I have never thought of farmers as including horticulturists or orchadists but they seem to be lumped in here. I am aware that some of them spray every week which is extremely scary.

        Where possible I buy organic, I have a substantial vege garden and about 30 fruit trees. and tanks that hold 14,000 litres of water off our roof and 6 chooks.

        There are huge problems with the rivers in Canterbury which have been severely degraded over the years. We should have pushed harder to become organic, we are a small nation that could have done this and exported to Europe by the ton

      • The people who have helped build this country are those who have lived on the minimum wages, the working class and yes some of that was on farms. Working for the owner of the farm.

        • These days, the whole country is one giant farm with the “livestock” labouring to enrich the “farm owners”, the multinational banks. That needs to change before any meaningful improvements can be made.

  12. If it’s over for farmers, then it’s over for all of us. How do you think we’ll eat? WHAT do you think we’ll eat? How do you think this country will earn the foreign exchange to buy other necessities?

    If farming goes down, all of us go too. Australia is sounding more and more attractive. You’re welcome to this godforsaken, woke hellhole at the arse end of nowhere.

    • 1 – synthetic meat and milk is coming, it will be far cheaper and price dictates.

      2 – Where did I say ‘stop feeding us’? Where? I said, stop feeding the other 40 million’

      3 – I always laugh so hard when you claim you are off to Australia because it’s so bad here. As you well know Australia BECAUSE OF GLOBAL WARMING will be a radioactive sand pit in 10 years. You pop off over to Australia and I bet we will all see you fleeing from their climate crisis hell hole for a glass of pure nz water – pure because we will have cracked down on the polluting farmers.

      Happy days

      • Hi Martyn, With all due respect, if you look closely at the carbon footprint of alternative meat/milk products you will observe that producing the raw product required actually produces far more carbon emissions than livestock farming. You need to calculate the full emission profile of heavy machinery, and the fuel used, from manufacture right through to end of service life. You need to consider the amount of ploughing (with huge associated C losses), spraying etc for monocultural probably genetically-modified crops production. There will be no organic or regenerative soil development under the alternative milk/meat regime for all manner of ‘efficiency’ reasons. You need to consider the impacts of soil compaction from constant harvest, the reduction in soil rhizosphere biome, the lack of above ground biodiversity both in the filed, and in nearby areas as forest etc is changed to field (look at the huge loses of tropical rainforest in Brazil for GE soybeans as the model for the future). Then you need to consider the emissions profile of harvest and transport of the raw material, followed by the manufacture and distribution process.

        At the end of the day the resulting product is far removed from the GE-free organic product that many of us prefer to eat. It may not even be safe.

        If you want to eat this stuff for ethical reasons relating to farming animals, be my guest. If you chose it as a climate change mitigation stratgey you’re in dream land.

        By contrast our animal farming systems are usually somewhere either side of carbon neutral if all elements are considered (C sequestration from the Carbon cycle, N cycle, and the fact that most farms have a lot of trees). The only reason NZ farms are not considered carbon neutral is because the interpretation of the IPCC rules we use only account for animal emissions, not on-farm sequestrations. This information is easy to find for anyone who is actually interested, although usually ignored by the anti-farm activists.

        The other thing not considered is that we can combine farming types. In my case I have a lot of steep farmland tha tis far too steep to farm arable crops for processing into alternative proteins. I hav ethese hillsides covered in trees for C sequestration, biodiversity, and ultimately speciality timber, but also run beef breeding cows under them. I’ve got all the environmental advantages of forestry, plus the soil carbon building ability that comes through long rotation beef cow grazing, plus the ability to produce as many calves as hillsides without trees. The regnerative farming movement is already fixing most of the environmental issues city folk are concerned about, but no one is interested. There is no way my farm would be more environmentally sustainable or profitable by converting it to alternative meat/milk raw product production. This is the case for the vast majority of NZ farmland.

        The idea that the high-input, high tech, Carbon polluting alternative foods will be cheaper than animal based products is not likely when you consider the high inputs requried to produce the raw material for processing, and the fact that the guys producing this stuff are in it for profit, the more the better. Once we get rid of animal farms these guys can name their price and everyone will be forced to take it. The vision is distopia (food supply restricted to a few powerful mega corporates), not climate utopia.

        • Comrade Waimata

          Thank you for your excellent post, you have provided a lot of oversight.

          I’m not questioning your logic and counter productive outcomes. However my point stands that the vast majority of our current dairy export is basic milk powder which is pumped into the manufactured food industry.

          Any reduction in price via a synthetic alternative and our dairy exports would crash.

          The technology and investment into research means it’s just a matter of time before that cost and carbon footprint comes plummeting down.

          Im not ruling out a dairy industry altogether. Organic farming that feeds the 5million here plus our obligations as Whānau to the wider pacific and not the 40million others!

          We don’t need mass investment into synthetics ourselves, we just need to stop selling it to everyone else!

          Why should kiwis who already put up with corporate farmers polluting our water and increasing global warming gasses ALSO pay global prices for your product?

          How outrageous is it that on top of all this we allow a legal monopoly in the form of Fonterra?

          Why must we be fucked so many times Ben?

          The water pollution, climate crises worsening gases AND we pay the same global price corporate Farmers can get on a global market of 40million others while putting up with a monopoly?

          Capitalists are selfish socialists.

          • Hi again Bomber,

            I think one of the problems we have in NZ is that to a lot of (mainly urban) NZ the terms ‘farmer’ and ‘corporate dairy farms’ is synonymous, even the reply Sam gave to me above indicates this, with his reference to the dairy industry. The reality is very different. The traditional family farms were always working class people, back from the days when the left was the workers and farmers parties. Most farmers have a very real love for the land, and strive to improve it for themselves, for the animals, and for the future. Yes there are bad buggers who let us all down, but such is reality in all walks of life. I know a number of small scale dairy farmers and most of them have amazing environmental standards, and are very pro-active with ecological matters. More importantly, the younger generation of people coming in to the industry are going to leave us older guys in the dust (and how did I suddenly find myself in my second half century anyway??).

            Corporate dairy is a different beast altogether. Some of them can be quite good, but the majority seem to live up to their bad reputation.

            I think a large part of the anti-farming rhetoric from inner city NZ comes from the confusion between small scale family farm and big dairy corporates.

            Agreed that NZ should not be pushing low price commodity products like milk powder. There is enough demand for high quality organic certified beef that all NZ beef farms could operate organically and not satisfy the demand. Surely we could market all our meat, dairy, hort produce to high end customers at a high price, playing off a clean, green story? Then we could reduce our stock numbers dramatically and have happy, well fed stock with only positive environmental outcomes (animals are part of the nature after all), and actually make the clean green story a reality (once the cities get their sewer overflows sorted out!). I see no point in trying to outcompete commodity producers on the world stage, we are too small and too far away, we should aim high end, and get top quality food to our local consumers as well. My vision is of small scale operations working collectively for mutual benefit, collectively building local ecosystems and local societal cohesion and economic stability.

            The problem farmers have with David Parker etc is he appears to see us all as the bad guys, and wants to work with all stick and no carrot. He wants a one-size-fits-all approach that does not work in our multitude of climatic and environmental conditions. As Countryboy says, much of the environmental damage done on farms is caused by pressure from banks. We had to change banks because the Rabobank dude hated organic farming and wanted to close us down, typical of corporate mindset. There are however enough of us out here totally focused on environmental outcomes to make a difference. The regenerative farming movement is a great example of farmers being pro-active despite of (not because of) Government initiatives.

            I still think your vision of alternative foods is a nightmare scenario of poor environmental outcomes and evil mega-corporates owning the food supply, an incredibly scary prospect for human existence, for the continuation of the planet, and particularly bad for the poor in the short/medium term. Then we have the issue of nutritional value; will these new foods have everything we need? I still believe there is ‘magic’ (for want of a better word) in humus and organic compounds in soil that are more than the sum of the mineral composition. This is where healthy food comes from, not out of a frankenstein lab.

  13. If you look closely at the protests you will notice that a hell of a lot of those tractors are new. Sometimes line of the same brand and models. Wanna bet half those tractors are dealership stock being driven by salesmen. Better than a fkin field day.

  14. Who else is left to attack?

    Landlords – done
    Firearms owners – done
    Farmers – done
    Tradies with utes – done
    White males – done

    Whose next in this debacle of societal fragmentation?

    • I am picking next on the agenda will will be the owners recreational vehicles (caravans, motorhomes, off road vehicles) through increased road tax and EV subsidies, private airplane owners and buyers of new ICE powered boats and PWC’s

    • Just to bring something slightly less misleading than Newstalk ZB repeated bullshit.

      Landlords — only ever thinking of the community apparently except these pricks buy and sell housing for their own enrichment so fuck the community. And more often than not get paid by the taxpayers in housing supplements to do so. And as they neatly squirrel away their house collection they drive up prices of what’s left denying genuine buyers who want a roof over their heads, the opportunity. There’s a special place in hell for the greedy!

      Firearms owners. Where the fuck do you think criminals get most of their hardware from? Poorly stored, easily stolen in burglaries of gun lovers and untraceable. And why do we ever need the kind of guns targeted in the buy back? Cry me a river.

      Farmers – our lapse attitude to water poisoned a whole town and killed if I remember correctly. Many of our rivers are flowing cesspools. Bovine produced more of our climate change than any other thing. Even the former Chief Justice and part time farmer thought it perfectly acceptable to have her cattle using a river to literally shit in. That highlighted how bad things had got.

      Tradies with utes. Again the world’s not going to end. Get a life. If Toyota want, and they don’t, their vehicles don’t need to be powered by filthy big diesels. The levy is stuff all and the first manufacturer to start selling lower emission vehicles will take all. Tradi3s just add it to the bill, they always do!

      White males. Not having to many issues myself dude, but I’m not into victimhood either!

      • You’d probably be surprised how many firearms criminals import in NZ with their tonnes of meth. The number of firearms the Police recover each year far exceeds the number stolen. Plus many of guns recovered from criminals are often pistols & “assault” rifles, all of which are currently registered & have very high security requirements. The Police usually blame licenced firearms owners because that shifts the blame from them giving licences to gang associates who buy up & on sell firearms to other criminals or customs failure to detect illegally imported firearms.

        • Richard. – I know this country’s gun ownership, tracing, distribution and sales of firearms was so lapse, it made Texas look left wing.

          There was a barely hidden black market for used guns, the police appeared to have gun nuts as vetting officers and the whole firearms area was, in essence, unpoliced. The truth was we all thought we had strict gun laws, we didn’t. I know of people with mental,health issues with firearm licenses who had as part of their collections, Thompson sub machine guns, Bren guns, guns I thought were simply illegal to be out in the community.

          Honestly, the arsenal of legit firearms in NZ from a she’ll be right attitude to guns is terrifying. Now they are being used on us by fuckwits who have a sea of choice in little ol’ NZ.

          The NRA would be proud!

          • And in the past week in NZ how many people were shot by:
            A: Agents of the NZ Government
            B: Criminals or gang members
            C: Licenced firearms owners

            Only one of those numbers is zero and it isn’t A or B.

            We had world class gun laws in New Zealand & our rate of gun murders showed that, especially considering the high rate of lawful firearm ownership. The Police have consistently let us down with poor vetting & enforcement of existing laws, while pushing an agenda of arming themselves with an increasing array of military weapons whilst attempting to disarm the general population. The judiciary also let us down with piss weak sentences and no additional time for carrying a firearm in the commission of a crime. I can point to two recent cases where the offender received less than 12 months home detention for killing someone with an illegal firearm. WTF!

    • Yes, where did our colorblind, tolerant society go?

      When did we stop helping each other and start hating on each other? Just look at some of the disturbing comments on here lately.

      Who wins when the woke have everyone at each other’s throat?

      What is the political answer to the woke religion?

      I’d go to that rally too.

    • Home owners otherwise knows at NIMBYs – done.
      NZ workers (lazy, drugged, refusing to pay for work, thus needing and relying on foreign workers) – done.

      NZ gangs – current, but then given 2.75m to say sorry.
      Feminists who believe in biological sex – current
      Freedom of speech (racist, transphobic, et) – current
      Pakeha who caused the CHCH terror attacks and all things racist in NZ through micro aggression – current
      British Ex-pats who are colonial abusers (because they invented social welfare and democracy) responsible for everything bad in NZ, Asia, Africa and everywhere else – current

      Until NZ is 100% foreign owned with 100% onshored foreign work force on minimum wages or free labour via Interns and students and other elaborate schemes, get rid of democracy in local and central government and remove evil middle class social welfare, the Neoliberals (both Natz and Labour) will not be happy.

      • Response to Andrews comment about all the current attacks – only he missed some out
        Governments have sought to undermine the NZ community by attacking various groups to blame for the on-going problems, while masking and enabling who is the problem.

        Note what is an issue is that some corporations like Rio Tinto and “NZ” Waste management seem to get the opposite treatment, no attacks when warranted, aka free rides from government to pollute and immunity from deaths from their trucks (Carla Neems), and being able to pollute towns with waste (Rio Tinto), subsidised power (Rio Tinto) and in the case of Waste management soon to pollute Auckland with more landfill (also granted to bring in overseas toxic waste to dump in NZ/Auckland Dome) and 700 truck movements per day.

  15. Soooo…. What was all that about “Free Speech” again???

    All the farmers are asking for is the chance to HAVE THEIR SAY –
    To be a part of the discussions – TO BE HEARD!!!

    Free speech for some. Others?
    “Somebody Shut Him Up” …where have I heard that before (Oh, I remember..)
    That phrase is not in the actual words above, but it is the clear message given Decisions made in advance of discussion. Conclusions gymnastically leaped through with double twists and turns.

    Free speech? Yeah, right.

  16. Andrew anyone who doesn’t bow to the Queen of hypocrisy.
    The ranting and raving without providing an answer to what replaces the loss of export earnings is bewildering.

    • This sounds like the moaning on kiwiblog

      Landlords can’t claim interest on against their tax just like the rest of us.
      Firearms owners can’t buy guns that are designed to murder humans.
      Farmers have to manage their runoff.
      Tradies have to pay a few more dollars for that ute to tow their boat. They can still claim back gst and tax and how many actually pay fringe benefit tax. Make a trip to you local boat ramp to see what the utes are really used for.
      Us white males can always buy a sunbed.

      • Anyone towing a boat is MANDATED BY LAW to do so using a big fuck off vehicle. Using a Nissan Leaf to tow your 6.1m Frypan is illegal. Are you sure those at the boat ramp aren’t just doing complying what the law says they must?

        I spoke to the SPCA and asked how many calves am I legally allowed to put in a Leaf. Apparently it’s none. Do it carefully with caution then maybe 2 into a Landcrusier sized wagon. They suggested the best option to ensure compliance with animal welfare and road rules is to use a ute.

      • Look Johns a fuckwit. You don’t see him thanking queen of hypocrisy for …
        those protesting farmers feeling the same way when their industry received the best part of a billion dollars in support for Mycoplasma Bovis? Did they take to the streets to protest hundreds of millions of dollars they received in irrigation subsidies? Did protestors turn out in anger at drought relief packages, or flood relief, or the Covid-19 wage support?

        The biggest hypocrite is John and he should return to kiwiblog or Whaleoil because moaning is a prerequisite.

      • Most of my firearms were specifically designed & built to kill humans, some of them may have done so in the past, but since they were taken out of the hands of the Governments who owned them (including ours), none of them has killed anyone. All of them can be legally purchased in NZ. They are just tools, the person holding them defines how they are used.

    • Well on the bright side they’ll be plenty of empty farmland and unused paddocks to park up the soon to be clapped out E.Vs and their noxious batteries no one knows what to do with.
      I was earlier in Westport in the todays floods. I wonder how many of the emergency services, local authorities, police, military, volunteers(including farmers) etc who are out there rescuing people and property in metre deep water are electric? I wonder how many would prefer an E.V. today.

      • E.V batteries are 90+% recyclable and have an after life as battery back up to houses or businesses. So you really should read a tad more about things you want to look informed about.
        Noxious, what, compared to the wars and pollution etc of the oil industry. That remark is really……’too dumb, to be dumb’.
        Give E.V’s time and they’ll be designed to work in floods. There’s just NOT that big of a market for such at this stage in the E.V evolution.
        Plus there is absolutely NO PROBLEM with E.V’s and water if that’s the intent in that remark.

        • Ok I admit I am no expert on EVs and going what I’ve seen and read myself. I am willing to take on any information you are willing to provide. So can you maybe explain a couple things.
          -is it true fire brigades and emergency services have been warned to be most careful when dealing with E.Vs especially those on fire? One mate, a volunteer fireman told me they’ve been told to just let it burn and prevent it spreading to other stuff. Apparently there is some special foam they need.
          -old and obsolete EVs are stockpiling in Europe because basically no one is willing to deal with the batteries and countries like Japan have banned their return due to the cost and effort needed to deal with them? So why aren’t they being recycled if it were so easy?
          -do EV batteries require expensive care and remain a fire risk for years even after use and can’t be stored near buildings?
          -EV batteries are designed to fit the model car and once that model is no longer made the batteries aren’t either? Does that mean an EV that’s say 10 years old and needs a replacement battery that may not be around so rendering the car useless? Much like cell phones I guess. There has been a case in Greymouth where one lady had to scrap her EV when it became apparent there was one(and only one)battery in Japan but shipping costs proved prohibitive and she had to scrap it.
          -from your comments I understand that E.Vs are still a developing technology. But in the here and now ICE vehicles remain to most suitable for certain jobs- like rescuing little old ladies from flood waterin places like Westport and it will remain so for some time. I think the British army looked at going EV but situations where they are called in tend not to have working electric infrastructure, and could be prone to disruption in supply chains. Either bombed out foreign countries or civil emergencies at home.
          And no I’m not taking the piss and will be interested in your thoughts on this matter. Sorry if you think I’m dumb but hey we all had to start somewhere.

  17. I posted this elsewhere but it belongs HERE –
    It is NOT THE FARMERS who have caused this – It is the govt:

    Why a block of NZ cheese costs twice as much in NZ as in Aus

    Remove the GST on our own essential NZ foods NOW!!!!!!!!

    …. I feel so angry about this … It is so fundamentally WRONG!!!
    And it hurts everyone – the farmers and growers as much as ALL KIWIS!!!!!
    Especially the children!!!!!

    (What is WRONG with those stuffed pretenders in the beehive?????????? They are blind and deaf to the obvious.)

    • How can you blame the government? Deducting GST is going to remove about $3.30 per massively overpriced block. That, by the way, does not come close to the difference in cost!

      Freight to Australia probably is a similar cost.

      Dairy NZ just rips off New Zealanders, always has, always will.

      What we badly need is overseas products to introduce actual competition. Then Fonterra can stick their monopoly up their over paid arses!

      • going to remove about $3.30

        And yet the govt considers that such a fortune that they cannot even give that amount as a per-day increase to those most in need. At the same time they tout their less-than-$3 per day increase to benes as something amazing, – LESS than the amount per block of cheese saved on ONE block alone if even only the final end gst were removed.

        That 15% GST is added at every step of the way – or rather is snatched by the govt at every step of the way – not just the final end product. And, there are hundreds of steps – services and products required along the way which all demand that extra 15% to go to the govt – In the end it feels like they want to tax every breath you take, by 15%.

    • How do our growers compete with O/S products – all kinds of fruit and vegs which are sold here cheaper than those grown down the road?

      It is criminal that this is happening.

    • Kheala. Well said, again. Of course gst should be removed from foodstuffs. It is indefensible poor clobbering.

      Than you for referencing the children. New Zealand hospitals are currently bursting at the seams with babies struggling to breathe with the cruel RSV virus, and doctors say that it hasn’t peaked yet.

      The RSV virus is transmitted from the day care centres who look after toddlers because parents cannot afford not to work at two or three jobs. Better diets with healthier nutrition would help the immune system of all children, and every child counts, not just the children of the few to whom gst is a negligible cost. Once again, this country is showing how little it cares about the children of the poor.

      • Snow White: Take GST off dairy and I’m taking an easy bet Fonterra would screw us and add the equivalent back on to profit from!

        Having said that dairy products are not that good for human consumption anyway, we would be better off if we didn’t eat them at all.

    • Too right Kheala. In Aussie there is no GST on many essentials, including most foods.

      And yet some NZ liberals like to say Australia is “so right-wing”.

  18. The truth is people are fickle.

    Labour are faltering and losing support. Fickle people are fed up with them. The ones that voted Key and then voted Ardern and now looking for someone new because Ardern and her crew have failed.

    My Mum being a good example. Labour voter all her life, got conned by Key’s Charm started voted National got conned by Jacinda’a hugs and started voting Labour again but now is pissed off with Labour

    National will be back its just a matter of time

  19. I do wonder how many of the farmers that protested yesterday used vehicles in the protest that cost over $100,000 and thanks to special deals between government and farmers that the NZ taxpayers contributed to those vehicles?
    I wonder how many farmers took advantage of the Wage Subsidy Scheme last year because they have staff and managed to make huge profits anyway and didn’t have to pay back the WSS?
    I wonder what farmers would have thought if John Key was still prime minister of New Zilland and called their protests as “Rent a Protestor”?
    Now whilst I respect our farmers they are doing themselves a dis-service. I am sure there were many farmers who didn’t go on the protest because they realise they are onto a good thing.

  20. Firstly much of the pollution in NZ is caused by people not dairy. Dairy and farming is not causing pollution, but the rise of intensive farming is a huge and growing problem as is farming in places that are unsuitable for that type of farming (aka CHCH for Dairy).

    Added to this is the rise in monopolies and mega farms which is very alarming for NZ’s future (traditionally farms were farmed by families not corporations).

    The rise in corporation farming has resulted in unsustainable farming practises, more pollution and exploitative working conditions for people who are bought in to farm (traditionally farmers were their own workforce – they didn’t need workers as they and their family farmed the lands) with all the associate problems.

    In the US huge monopolies have started to occur with very poor practises from this.

    Investigation shows scale of big food corporations’ market dominance and political power
    “A handful of powerful companies control the majority market share of almost 80% of dozens of grocery items bought regularly by ordinary Americans, new analysis reveals.”
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/ng-interactive/2021/jul/14/food-monopoly-meals-profits-data-investigation

    In NZ there are signs that multinational companies or private equity are taking over NZ farms and farming practises which are highly polluting and they don’t farm the land themselves, are farming unsustainably, and driving the need for foreign workers to come into NZ to work for them. (While NZ taxpayers pay for the risks, health care, schooling, welfare subsidies etc)

    United States citizens and companies are buying up New Zealand land for farming, forestry and wine-making, an RNZ analysis reveals.
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/whoseatingnewzealand/446687/us-buying-up-our-primary-industries

    While Chinese interests seem to hold the majority interests of NZ’s largest companies and expanding from Silver Fern Farms, Comvita, water bottling, Wrightsons, Milk NZ, Westland Milk, NEW ZEALAND KING SALMON INVESTMENTS LIMITED (ultimate holding company registered in Virgin Islands with Callander Group Limited) and this practise of NZ façadism disguises the true identity of the true owners, who often live elsewhere or have been handed NZ citizenship recently.

    Clearly OIO and Commerce commission are asleep at the wheel and happy to hand over all of NZ assets into foreign control (or give foreign nationals NZ citizenship to ‘hide’ the practise) to ensure high prices, poor work practises and little profits going back to NZ!

  21. One little phrase that was missing from the billboards before the “no future” bit was “no change”.
    All climatically unsustainable practices, and that includes farming, will mean no future for the human race on this planet.
    But I think that bit was lost in all the excitement.

    • So Mike, you reject the IPCC advice? The IPCC clearly says all climate mitigation needs to be done in a way that does not impact on food production. NZ Govt polices are pushing for farmland to be converted to monocultural pine forests, in direct opposition to the IPCC advice. And in case you are wondering, pine carbon forests are extremely climatically unstable, as well as environmentally unstable, because the forest reachs its full lifespan within 100 years then dies, leaving a monstrous mess of dead wood and erosion for whoever is here to clean it up. And guess what? All that carbon ends up decomposing and going back in to the atmosphere. Not a win for anyone except the short term benefit for the corporates who hold the carbon rights. NZs policy of converting food production into carbon forests amounts to the most impressive international corporate welfare scheme in history, with NZ taxpayers subsidising interntional corporates to convert our farmland into permanent methane-emitting wastelands for their benefit, allowing them to go on polluting.

      • Assuming you are referring to the Emissions Trading Scheme, I agree.
        The ETS probably had laudable aims but it just turned into a money making scheme for the rich and greedy who had figured out there was money in pollution.
        That is what also needs to change hence my comment about the billboard.

  22. Nothing changes for the better for anyone until the banksters stranglehold control of society is broken. And the banksters are not going to allow their stranglehold on society to to be broken.

    So we will keep ‘throwing babies and children onto the fire’ to keep current banking arrangements -creation of money out of thin air and charging interest on it- intact for just a little longer. And will fuck the [planet and people a bit more in the process,

    Needless to say, the mendacity and cowardice that charaacterises ALL POLITICANS OF ALL POLITICAL PARTIES ensures that NZ will be driven off the cliff, along with all other industrial nations. Quite soon.

    Everyone is now thoroughly

  23. “The truth is climate change is real and we can’t allow cows to keep contributing to that”.

    You’re not wrong Martyn. But don’t blame the cows, blame the economic model that supports diary intensification. Carbon sequestration is the name of the game but in the Waikato region alone, which has almost half of New Zealand’s peatlands, around 70,000 hectares have been lost to dairying. That’s around a 75% loss. The science tells us that intact peat bogs, such as the Kopuatai dome in the Waikato region, can hold up to 1,400 tonnes of carbon per hectare. But collectively, the Waikato’s drained peatlands produce 10-33 tonnes of CO₂-equivalent emissions per hectare each year. One only needs to do the math.

    The draining of peatlands in the Waikato region, for intensive dairying, has done far more damage, in terms of emissions, than the cows themselves.

    https://theconversation.com/climate-explained-is-new-zealand-losing-or-gaining-native-forests-163976

    • blame the economic model that supports diary intensification.

      Yes. And allowing ownership by mega-corps and foreign entities.

  24. Right on John, about all we have left now to earn an income in the world is farming forestry and fishing, pretty much everything else, tourism, foreign students, energy and major manufacturing is near dead with nothing coming in behind. farming exports are vital for maintaining anything like the current standard of living of the country, let alone anything better.
    Yesterday needs to be seen for what it was, it was the awakening and mobilization of a hither too dormant and generally compliant sector. The country now has a new political movement that has resources and clearly demonstrated strength, a newly organized power base to be reconned with.
    Now Martyn says that it is the 45 plus women of the country who put Jacinda into power, yes they voted for her but it was the provincial cities and towns that gave the the out right majority. Yesterday these voters put her on notice that they are not happy with where things are heading.
    Jacinda in her desperation to “out Green” the Greens and “out Maori” the Maori party has imploded that provincial support. In short she has divided the team of five million into at least two teams.
    Now she has two options plough on with her unworkable regulations:for water soil and SNA’s and the plainly unfair “ute tax” and deal with unrest and discord, which will not go away (yesterday demonstrated a depth and breath of willingness of Provincial people to stand up and say enough is enough, it will only grow from here)
    OR back off and accept that each of these proposals is flawed in part and rework them with proper consultation with those directly affected.
    What will she do?

    • Clifford J
      I don’t know where you get your ideas from, but Jacinda says she does “simply not accept there is a divide”. Mate, if she says so, then it must be true and you are plainly wrong (ps: I’m with you mate!). Great, having sorted that, she will do nothing, to answer your question. Well, Parker said they will not compromise. Hang on, she will do something!…she will head off to the UN and leave the mess to someone else.
      And about those 45 plus women who put Jacinda into power? They’ll have had a gutsful of Covid by 2023, and they’ll side with the farmers, so those votes are already goneburgers. Mark my words….40% will be a great achievement for Labour! Box of beer if I’m wrong.

      • Now I was taught from a young age to “always listen to the other fellow’s point of view, he just might be right, only a fool thinks they have all the answers”
        David Parker can best be described as an “educated idiot” but his failure to listen makes him also a fool by my definition.
        Now I have been round the sun just on 72 times the weather on each trip has been different! David Parker does not apreciate that.

        David declares that crops will be planted by the same date every year regardless of the weather or soil conditions. BUT DAVID If the soil is too wet, cant cultivate, seeds will rot. If the temperature is too cold they won’t germinate. And don’t plant until the after Danger of frost is gone. This date will varry year on year

        David and his team of “educated idiots” in Wellington understand none of this.
        This is a key gripe of the farmers and whats more Wellington does not want to understand.
        Oh and where do I get my information? on friday nights at a country pub frequented by farmers, loggers, contractors, tradies and the like all with dirt under their finger nails. The people who actually get things done.

        Now if Jacinda and her crew do nothing over the next couple of weeks prepare for a far bigger protest on the 15th of August.

    • The country now has a new political movement that has resources and clearly demonstrated strength, a newly organized power base to be reckoned with.

      Something to think about.

  25. Far from being “the end” for farmers, the opposite is the case. This is a time of re-birth or rather, regeneration of farming. For one thing, in the times just ahead (already here, if the greedy money grabbers didn’t get in the way) the world will need food as it never has done before.

    What IDIOTS are we, to have turned what should have been a food basket for the world, into a guy-fawkes heap of tinder-pine? Insanity. Mindless stupidity, driven by greed.

  26. large scale corporate Dairy is a sunset industry

    Yes, that bit is correct (or let’s hope so – and that that sun sets fast!)

    But you have thrown ALL FARMERS into that same box, when the term includes many more diverse situations than that. Big Corps should be banned here in AO/ NZ, yes. True farming needs to regenerate, to diversify, to go organic. Farmers often grow crops as well, btw. Farmers and growers and orchardists are our hope of survival into the future. Without food, as without water, as without land – we’ve got nothing. Yet the govt seems to be merrily selling off the lot of them. As well as our past and our future. I call treason.

    Re the Megacorps: So, what were those 20+ “Investors” who arrived on our shores a week or so ago? – No info so far. Yet more exploiters of our serfdom?

  27. https://www.commondreams.org/views/2021/07/08/family-farms-can-help-solve-climate-change

    From that link:
    We need to stop investing in systems that don’t work and start investing in the ones that do. We need a fair price for what we produce, one that covers the cost of using the best practices for our farms and the climate. We need to expand and improve USDA’s [or AO/ NZ’s] conservation programs to promote and support farms using practices that are beneficial to soil health and the environment. We need to invest in the local food and local processing facilities that will allow family farm agriculture to thrive and feed our communities.

    We can create a strong stable food system that can withstand a pandemic, global economic pressure, and help the climate. Independent family farms and diverse, decentralized ownership of food production, distribution and farmland are the solutions to climate change—now let’s get the policies in place that put the tools in the hands of family farmers and ranchers needed to address climate change.

  28. It is the government that has incentivized the conversion of productive farmland into invasive pines. They’re being used as carbon offsets for other nations and killing off our economy.

    • The cloned alien pines are killing the land itself – See where any of them have been clear-felled – Wrecked land. They have displaced our native trees and wildlife – these disappear – then they blame the hedgehogs!

      They are alien mono-forests, – they do not belong on this land. And from what I have read, they cause more harm to the climate. They certainly do to the environment, to the soil, to the birds and native plants. And they are a massive fire risk. And, much of this is foreign owned – that land should NEVER have been sold. They had no right to sell it. It was not theirs to sell.

      In the Climate commission report there was mention of this – of the dangers of such mono-forests. Yet there is NO mention of this anywhere by the govt or in the media. Instead, they put it all on the farmers. There are lies, deceit and all kinds of crap going on here.

  29. Here’s the thing. With the advent of faux foods, the only people who will be looking to use our produce, will be extremely discerning and likely wealthy. If we continue to not put the environment very high on the agenda, they will not buy from us.
    It is as simple as that.

  30. Why are successive govts, of whatever stripe, so reluctant to show us clearly how much of our land, how much of Aotearoa is now in foreign ownership. I’d like to see a map showing this, clearly, as well as all the stats.

    Those who find themselves in the halls of power cannot continue to sell off our land to foreign nations and foreign entities – to overseas interests. Aotearoa is not theirs to sell. They are holding it in trust; their role is to guard and protect the land. …Never, ever to profiteer from it.

  31. Meanwhile the farmers will have their hand out for cleanup cost to help fix damage done by the wild weather.. caused (at least partially) by climate change.. not even a hint of irony.

  32. Oh looks the plebs all arguing with each other and finger pointing

    meanwhile the elite are living it up in their gated communities with neary a glove being laid on them

    wake up people

  33. Fabulous to read reasoned debate from many contributors.
    Done without resorting to personal insults and a tirade of obscenities.Relecting a wide vocabulary whilst those who resort to personal insults and obscenities demonstrate a limited vocabulary.

    • You missed my point altogether. There are groups of farmers fixing entire catchments on their own initiative all over the country. This is the kind of regulation we need, we need a Govt that works with us, consults at local level (should be through regional councils rather than central Govt), identifies specific targets for each catchment. There is already a lot of will to do this stuff, and many of us are doing it already. In my area there is a plan for fencing and revegetating native forest over an entire coastal river system from the headwaters to the beach, we’ve got every landowner on board, all willing to give up property rights around the contributing streams. The application is in for funding to help coordinate it, but it appears to be stalling at present because there is very little central Govt funding for this kind of thing. Instead the Govt want to put the funding into punitive top-down bureacracy telling people what to do and funding eco-police to punish us, rather than work with us. On one side we’ve got people ready and willing to do the right thing, and with pride and accomplishment. On the other hand we’ve got mindless dickheads threatening and fining. Guess what? The latter option is less susccessful and creates a HUGE amount of resentment. Yes some degree of compulsion will be necessary for those few intransigent people (they occur in every walk of life), but if there is one prick in a district deliberately opposing good environmental work they will be firmly feeling it, and will not get much support when the compulsion starts.

      I’m trying to say look at the good and lead from the front, don’t kick people when they are down. Most small farms have very little disposable income (we raised our 4 kids on less income than either my oldest son or daughter are receiving in their first years of work!), if it all goes on compliance costs then that money will not be spent on environmental work, simple as that.

      When local people can see the issues and identify how to fix it, this is vastly improved environmental outcomes. It should not be seen as relaxing water regulations.

      And, when we hear about raw sewage on the Auckland beachs at the same time as the media rant about how bad we farmers are because a cow took a crap 8m from a stream somewhere up in the hills miles away from anyone, the hypocrisy does not help.

  34. Mycoplasma eradication was a Goverment initiative.
    The decision being made to protect over time billions of dollars of export earning in other words an investment.
    During that period mental health in beef and dairy farmers peaked,some lost their farms.
    To make light of mycoplasma to score a political point is dreadful.
    .

    • M bovis is something that farmers in almost every other country live with without serious problems. It is very likely it has been here since the first cows arrived in NZ. I suspect if farmers had been asked the consensus may well have been to live with it. When animals are in peak condition through good farming practices it is not really a problem. Elimination strategy again… I agree blaming farmers for a Govt decision that was always going to be horribly expensive and probably unneccessary is typical of the anti-farming mindest in much of NZ.

    • And yet you repeated the insult whilst trying to make your point.

      I stand by my statement, when people are selective of facts to support their narrative, they shouldn’t complain about the consequences.
      John don’t use mental health for political point scoring, as you say it’s dreadful. My comment was only ever about government supporting farmers in their need but somehow you drew a very very long bow to get to using mental health to make a point.
      I’m more than happy for you to tag along for a week with me to see what mental health looks like.

    • Well Kim. What’s good for the goose. Fuck you to. Farmers take what they’re given for their produce at the gate. always have done. they don’t price it in the butcher or supermarket. it’s up and down, and at the moment it’s up. The more farmers that sell up or grow tree’s will mean less of our good meat to local trade which means more demand and higher prices. Farmers are enjoying good export prices at the moment. if you’re suggesting they should accept less so you can eat cheaper meat you more of a fool than you sound. The politics of how meat is priced locally is way beyond their influence. They are not some glorified government department that is supposed to be feeding the locals at the cheapest price. They are running a business to make as much profit as they can. Maybe you could get Jacinder to buy some dairy farms and the government can farm them and feed you with subsidised meat.

      • You keep up that attitude till the hungry masses arrive at your gate and just take your cows. I will give you another 10 years at most.

  35. Thanks Bert but probably don’t live near you.
    There was no intention to draw a long bow I thought the 2 issues closely linked.Repeating the phrase was to explain which comment I was referring to. But I take your point.
    I have experience with mental health issues through close family members.
    I know you work in the field of mental health and for that I commend you.

  36. The Plant Based Treaty initiative is a grassroots campaign designed to put food systems at the forefront of combating the climate crisis. Modeled on the popular Fossil Fuel Treaty, the Plant Based Treaty aims to halt the widespread degradation of critical ecosystems caused by animal agriculture and to promote a shift to healthier, sustainable, plant-based diets. We are urging scientists, individuals, groups, businesses, and cities to endorse this call to action and put pressure on national governments to negotiate an international Plant Based Treaty.

    The Three Demands
    As a companion to the UNFCCC/Paris Agreement, we are urging governments to negotiate a global treaty which will include the following three principles.
    RELINQUISH – No land use change, ecosystem degradation or deforestation for the purposes of animal agriculture
    REDIRECT – An active transition away from animal-based agricultural systems to plant-based food systems
    RESTORE – Restore key ecosystems and reforest the Earth

    There is a growing number of scientists calling for urgent action to address the elephant (or rather – the cow) in the room: animal agriculture and the need to radically transform our food systems. Even if all of the world’s fossil fuel emissions ended today, we still wouldn’t be able to cap rising temperatures to 1.5 degrees Celsius above pre-industrial levels – all due to the significant impact of animal agriculture on resources, pollution, emissions, ecosystem integrity and land use.

  37. Kim,
    The comments from Rod Slater fully explains the cost of meat in NZ it is driven by the price the international market is prepared to pay.Currency fluctuations also play a part.
    The farmer has no involvement in the setting of the price.
    Are you suggesting some farmers should take a lower price to subsidise the domestic market.

    • When was the last time you saw export quality meat,veg or fruit in a NZ supermarket. Never thats when. Yet we still have to pay export quality prices. We are just he suckers that they dump the seconds onto and charge full price for the “privilege”

      • Kim If you go to the fat stock sale at your local sale yards you will see where farmers sell beef and sheep meat to local butchers and supermarkets. as a retired farmer I used to do it with 2yr heifers. It’s the best you can get. I also sold heifers on the farm to buyers that supplied supermarkets. Top class meat. If you choose meat eg pork from Europe because it’s a bit cheaper that’s your choice and risk. Get that chip off your shoulder Kim and don’t talk so much shit.

    • John: “…it is driven by the price the international market is prepared to pay.Currency fluctuations also play a part.”

      Exactly. I’ve pointed this out to those unhappy with the prices we have to pay, in particular for meat. Since the arrival of neoliberalism here, there have been no agricultural subsidies. This is what would be needed, were farmers here being asked to sell meat etc into the local market at a lower price than what they get overseas. They’d need to be subsidised for the difference. That’ll never happen. Most especially with the current government.

  38. “how do we tell Farmers it’s over for them?”

    You do love sensationalist headlines, don’t you Martyn. It isn’t “over” for farmers, but changes in what farmers grow will soon be forced on them by climate change. Greater evaporation as a result of rising temperatures will make dairy unsustainable in the drier lowland areas of Canterbury, Wairarapa, Hawkes Bay – places where it was always a dodgy idea anway. There simply won’t be enough water to sustain dairy farms. I can see a lot more of those districts going into vineyards and olive groves.

  39. Yes new view you are absolutely correct.
    Where people get this idea that export quality meat is not available in New Zealand outlets demonstrates a high level of ignorance.
    But then again in their defence this myth has been around for a long time.

  40. Farmers selling land to foreign interests is very worrying. They do not think it matters who owns NZ?

    I can think of at least three countries who think they already do.
    Are farmers NZers , or just selfish greedy bastards prostituting to the highest bidder?
    With covid and climate change where are they going to live?

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