Trump’s final shot at China and what it means to NZ

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Trump’s final shot at China’s buttocks on his way out the door didn’t pull any punches…

United States declares China committed ‘genocide, crimes against humanity’ with treatment of Uighurs

The Trump administration has determined that China has committed “genocide and crimes against humanity” in its repression of Uighur Muslims in its Xinjiang region, US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said on Tuesday, delivering an embarrassing blow to Beijing a day before US President-elect Joe Biden is to take office.

US officials briefing reporters on the move said in a call that “an exhaustive documentation of (China’s) own policies, practices and abuse in Xinjiang” viewed by Pompeo led him to make the determination that such acts had been committed since at least March 2017.

“After careful examination of the available facts, I have determined that the PRC, under the direction and control of the CCP, has committed genocide against the predominantly Muslim Uighurs and other ethnic and religious minority groups in Xinjiang,” Pompeo said in a statement.

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“I believe this genocide is ongoing, and that we are witnessing the systematic attempt to destroy UIghurs by the Chinese party-state,” he added.

…so with America officially calling China’s treatment of the Uighurs a genocide and crime against humanity, doesn’t that kinda demand we rethink and reconsider our trade with China?

How can we consider ourselves ethical if we are openly trading with a country that is committing genocide?

Shouldn’t the Prime Minister be asked if she agrees with America’s determination that China’s treatment of the Uighurs amounts to a war crime?

Isn’t it time to consider decoupling economically from China?

 

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55 COMMENTS

  1. Isn’t it time to decouple, to great long-term benefit, and to try those who coupled “us” up with the planet’s largest dictatorship EVER for high treason?

    Cue “Mark” and his card-carrying CCP ethno-nationalist hypocritical outrage…

    All Chinese are Asian, but not all Asians are Chinese.

    • In battle those outrages are not considered. In an arms race smaller nations must lose. China doesn’t need superior GDP because they have the largest population. China in my opinion won’t supercede America’s technological superiority but they don’t need to. China got the most resources, can field the largest armies. Without America the rest of the world can not balance that and we are left with a clear choice between China and America. I know which one I’d choose.

      • Yup clear the US represents the ‘lessor of two evils’ . . and more so now.

        Also looking to hearing from ‘Beijing Mark’ who should be along soon . .

      • That is assuming we have to choose.

        Who is forcing us to choose.

        Forget the propaganda about Uighur as a point of judgement.
        Trace the history of that propaganda and then look for clear evidence.

        Look at the US racism, its prison population and the state of its indigenous people—-or is that all forgotten.

    • The US and China are as bad as each other. Both are imperialists that live by sucking value off their workers and all the foreign workers that are exploited by their capital export.
      For every Uyghur locked up for re-education, or jailed for actually advocating Marxism against the fake Marxist CCP, there are probably 100 innocent men, women and children who have been bombed, starved, jailed or executed by the US in its history.
      This is what imperialists do. They screw the workers to cream off their obscene wealth
      The answer is not to choose between which ruling class is cleaner but oppose and overthrow them all.
      NZ working people are at least 80% of the population. Imagine us joining forces with the billions of Chinese (and US workers) to overthrow our tiny ruling classes and their mercenaries, and taking power on behalf of those who work, not live off our work. Humanity might have a future.

      • With a community that speaks multiple different languages the command structure would break down almost immediately creating those retched revolutions we read in history books.

        My identity is Tuhoe. I certainly wouldn’t identity as Chinese and most people will identify me by my positions, I’m not left or right. I’m centre left interms of graduating income tax, I believe in regulating environmental defoliation, Im in favour of social programs like welfare, education and Medine. And then I believe the crown should have a monopoly on violence, the importance of markets, the primacy of free speech and human rights. I believe policing is an important tool for the reduction of violence which is not a popular view on the left.

        So I have an eclectic mix to offer which I examine based off my reading of the evidence and so I try not fall into a China or America ideology.

        Perhaps the most unfortunate thing about the left is the hostility towards markets lifting hundreds of millions out of poverty. Certainly the right is far worse integrating migrants, treaties, a ruled based order and global norms which are increasingly necessary in order to confront global challenges like climate change. Rightwingers are also very opposed to market arguments like pricing harm to the environment, even if they are pro markets and realize the markets can’t take care of.

        The indifference to the poor, young, elderly and market ideology is nothing to be hostile over if there is a basic analysis.

  2. Conflict is not predetermined. It will require good choices at home. New Zealand can not balance China without the rest of the world including the USA so we do have to choose between one ratshit or the other.

    Sun Zu said win a war with out going to war. China doesn’t have to go to war the weight of the population will just dominate even as far as New Zealand and we don’t even have a response to a 3000 ton Chinese coastguard vessel.

    We are back to big power games. Deplomacy and economic trickery won’t work on China who has all the resources. Decoupling from China will see new Zealand on very low growth for a very long time.

    There’s no which ways about. Rogernomics gutted New Zealand’s productive capacity. We would have to get extremely creative if we want to decouple while keeping pace with China’s dominant growth.

    Energy generation will have to at least double. We will need to at least double tertiary education spots and triple the pass rate or at least 90%+ pass rate just to keep pass with Chinese growth rates. One miscalculation and the pace of it all will end in disaster 100% will happen.

    NZDF has to be rearmed. That’s 4 6000ton frigates, 22 fighter jets, 4 full time infantry battalions and everything else in between. So there’s no miscalculation NZDF also needs the ability to assemble these things in NZ IKEA style and double NZDFs combat capabilities in 12 months is just as essential.

      • Growth has a double edged sword to it. The centres of power are ruffly equal except China can field a larger military and America spends the most. Containing these centres of power is of upmost importance because when empires decline scientists get sold to the highest bidder then every middle power may well acquire nuclear weapons creating a tremendously new source of conflict. The double edge sword comes in where we have to grow to maintain the balance of state violence.

  3. If New Zealand is going to adopt that approach then it will also need to decouple from the US which is starving and killing the citizens of Yemen, Iran and Venezuela

    • Eso apples
      The US war machine has been in gear since 1945 non stop. We have been sucked in to assist them. Korea, Vietnam, Bosnia, Iraq, Afghanistan and now are we being lined up to go against China.

      Good grief how stupid are we.

  4. LOL. It takes the most hated person in the world to point out the world’s greatest shame. As someone that has visited the Nazi “work camps” while in Europe I’d challenge anyone to argue there is any moral difference to what occurs over there. For that matter point out the difference to the North Korean “work camps”. The only differences I can see are:

    a). China has nuclear weapons and enough of them to destroy the world
    b). The world and those in power rely on cheap Chinese manufacturing to maintain super profits

    What’s worse a couple of morons having a day in the capital egged on by a departing President or systemic ill treatment of people based on their race/religion. Then reflect what gets the most condemnation and reportage in the MSM.

    • North Korean “work camps”?????????
      China has but a small fraction of the nukes that the USA has. The USA has actually used them on people.

      Traders got goods made in China because of lower cast just as Britain and NZ imported cheap goods from Japan after WWII.
      Chinese goods are getting dearer but their system is more robust than any in the Western world.

  5. So we go after China. What about the other states that indulge in human rights abuses, war crimes and whatever? Do we need to have a self described cheat, liar and thief to tell us when we should hold up the ‘tut tut’ finger?

    • Mike Pompeo comes across as a comedian who has turned into a serial killer ,,,

      He has all the credibility of a vicious idiot ,,,,

      And if anyone thinks he cares or is truthful about Uighur Muslims ,,,, I have a section of Steve Bannon completed Mexican wall to sell you.

      ” In his final full day in office secretary of state Mike Pompeo denounced multiculturalism” 8mins 15secs https://youtu.be/-sxqQtAmr7M

  6. Problem is, who do we ‘couple’ with if we decouple from China? And almost every other country in the world is likewise coupled with China in any case.

    • We supply high grade food Mark. So we can sell to any country willing to pay for it. We were developed as England’s garden after all. Britain is running out of food due the idiocy of Brexit coupled with their shit management of Covid. China needs us more than we need them. Time to rewrite our FTA with them.Many of the goods China manufactures are made in other parts of Asia. Thailand, Vietnam and South Korea. We have been bullied into believing there is only one trading partner worth having. This is bullshit. We have useless idiots running this country who are one eyed and pig ignorant when it comes to world trade.MFAT are so biased towards China methinks they are in the pocket of the PRC.All our free trade agreements are shit and not worth the paper they’re written on.

    • I think the world not only survived but were better off before China rose to power using neoliberals love of cheap labour and products….

      Now planet Earth is filled with crap and landfill, Covid has bought economies to a halt and our seas and climate are polluted… time for a change. It’s not just China’s fault, but they are making things worse in many cases encouraging pollution, state abuse and control and corruption of other nations.

      The western world used to strive for democracy, so not sure what happened – love of a quick buck, lazy politicians and officials and bribes perhaps?

      Jacinda loves muslims in CHCH but apparently ‘practically perfect people don’t judge’ genocide and human rights abuses when there are laptops to be had..

      https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/jzbw4c/jacinda_ardern_xi_jinping_and_scott_morrison_on/

      • “The western world used to strive for democracy”

        LOL! – you mean like invading Vietnam and Iraq to bring democracy to the rest of the world?

        • The people in the western world had the right to protest, the media covered the war and eventually got their governments to withdraw from Vietnam, and their actions of invading Vietnam and Iraq are widely condemned in Western History as an appalling mistake.

          Hong Kong protests, the treatment of the Covid medics in Wuhan, Uyghur and other Turkic Muslims, human rights activists and business people being jailed in China willy nilly, shows what is going on today but not much pressure from the rest of the world or Chinese people on their government to stop….

    • We supply high grade food Mark. So we can sell to any country willing to pay for it. We were developed as England’s garden after all. Britain is running out of food due the idiocy of Brexit coupled with their shit management of Covid. China needs us more than we need them. Time to rewrite our FTA with them.Many of the goods China manufactures are made in other parts of Asia. Thailand, Vietnam and South Korea. We have been bullied into believing there is only one trading partner worth having. This is bullshit. We have useless idiots running this country who are one eyed and pig ignorant when it comes to world trade.MFAT are so biased towards China methinks they are in the pocket of the PRC.All our free trade agreements are shit and not worth the paper they’re written on.

      • LOL!!! The UK is as big a market as China?
        http://www.worldstopexports.com/new-zealands-top-trade-partners/

        The US will play fair when it comes to trade – that US farmers will just roll over for NZ farmers?

        Did you know that the US trade deficit with China has worsened (for the US) under Trump? That China is the US largest trading partner after the EU

        Did you know that the EU is now licking China’s balls? And that China is the EUs largest trading partner after the US, soon trending to be the largest?
        https://thediplomat.com/2021/01/the-strategic-implications-of-the-china-eu-investment-deal/

        Both Australia and New Zealand’s largest trading partner is still China.

        Suck shit. The West’s 400 year domination of the planet will end soon, and there is not a whole lot bitter people like you can do about it.

        • Who cares, NZ is one of the most desirable countries in the world right now. NZ imports from China nearly as much as we export. And most of what we export is now owned by Chinese anyway.

        • Here’s a perfect example of the Chinese Communist Party’s hypocrisy and corruption. Despite manufacturing their own Covid vaccines which they claim have fantastic efficacy (and are busy flogging off to poorer third world nations), they’ve ordered 100 million doses of the medically proven Pfizer vaccine to inoculate Party leaders and the elite:

          https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20201216-china-s-fosun-pharma-to-import-100-million-biontech-vaccine-doses

          • There is nothing in the linked article that says the BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine was given to inoculate CCP leaders and the elite.

            China’s Fosun invested in BioNTech in March 2020, when vaccine development around the world were still in their early stages. In return, Fosun was given the rights to market and sell its vaccine in China. In other words, it is an expected business decision for Fosun to stock and sell the vaccine that it has invested in, particularly as China’s own vaccine production capacity may not meet the needs of its own and other countries at the same time.

            There is 1 billion people to be inoculated alone in China, i.e. 2 billion doses of vaccine required. With an upgraded total annual production capacity of 2 billion doses by the end of 2021 (1 billion doses each from Sinovac and Sinopharm), China could barely meet its domestic demand, let alone supplying to developing countries that could not secure other vaccines due to hoarding by rich countries. As a point of comparison, BioNTech/Pfizer could produce 1.3 billion doses in 2021, 90% of which have been acquired by rich countries.

            • “There is nothing in the linked article that says the BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine was given to inoculate CCP leaders and the elite.”

              LOL! As if China’s opaque leadership would ever admit they were using a foreign (and medically superior) vaccine. Why hasn’t China’s dictatorship been shown on state media receiving their vaccines from Sinovac and Sinopharm? Because they know better than anyone how ineffective they are:

              https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55401706

              https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/4101158

              • Then it is just a speculation. One could also argue that leaders of countries with bad relations with the US currently, such as China, may be hesitant about taking a US-manufactured (Pfizer) vaccine.

                Results of the Brazilian trial on Sinovac’s vaccine are not comparable with others for three reasons: 1) the trial was conducted on people in highest risk group (frontline workers and elderly), unlike in US where participants are drawn from general population; 2) they assessed “time efficacy” of the vaccine (how quickly it can achieve immunity) by shortening dosing interval from 3 weeks (Pfizer) or 4 weeks (Moderna) to 2 weeks; 3) they counted participants with “very mild” symptoms requiring no clinical assistance, which were not considered in other trials.

                Thus, the Brazilian trial can be seen as a rigorous “stress test”, which other vaccines have not been subjected to.

  7. Biden is all about pro-China politics (paraphrasing Orwell, “we were always at war with Russia”). I wouldn’t be remotely surprised if Biden issues an apology to China for this statement, explaining that it does not reflect the policy of the new administration.

  8. ‘ Problem is, who do we ‘couple’ with if we decouple from China? And almost every other country in the world is likewise coupled with China in any case.’
    We go back to selling our stuff to Britain, the USA and Europe like we did in the old days. On occasions we criticize them too.
    The difference is other nations do not have a screaming fit like indulged brats( we will poke your eyes out! We will not buy any of your goods despite having a trade agreement that says we must! The Communist Party is always right and never makes mistakes!’ Our agreement with Britain over Hong Kong is not binding because we do not want it to be! People were mean to us over a hundred years ago and we have to keep whining about it now!)
    As I told you before Mark all that is required is for China to realize it is part of a world community now( signatory to the United Nations Charter on Human rights and self determination, freedom of the Navigation – stuff like that).
    Get your name written on the soles of your shoes Mark. That way when you crawl right up the Chinese Ambassadress we will still be able to find you.

    • “As I told you before Mark all that is required is for China to realize it is part of a world community now….”

      Oh…so the US and UK also need to realise same, and not go round invading half the world causing a million deaths over just the past two decades?

  9. Ab-sa-fucken-lutely. Truth, reality, democracy matter. Play around with things and you’ll lose us ordinary people. We can’t follow you exceptional leaders. Looking after us is the major thing.

    Ridiculous that quintagenarian nobody me considers himself at least the equal of the fools Jacinda and Grant. I have 10 more years before I dissolve into a National voter.

  10. The statement is by Pompass not Trump. Presenting that US govt bombast as the truth are you?

    Hopefully our government is smarter than you on this issue, Martyn. Although their getting on board with the Nalvanny anti Russia shit doesn’t look hopeful.

  11. Trump’s America is not the America that many used to trust and look upon. His engagement in falsehoods and exaggerated claims had seriously dented the credibility of his administration. It also seems the evidence are mostly based on reports written by someone with a religious fundamentalist worldview that may impede the objectivity of such reports on officially atheist China. Any level-headed leader should thus take the declaration with a pinch of salt, especially from an outgoing administration that knows it does not need to face or deal with any subsequent damaging consequences arising from it.

    • The new administration who are nearly all bought and paid for by Israel ,,,, are going after Russian and Iranian interference in their elections and society.

      They are evil pretenders ,,, and the latest in a long line.

      Biden is the Obama admin Mrk 2 ,,,, Richard Medhurst Rants on Warmonger and Criminal, Joe Biden https://youtu.be/fltj9HWfDwk

      “You dont congratulate mussolini for beating hitler in an election”

  12. So will the new cold war be like the old cold war?

    Are we to blindly follow the US into more tragedy?

    And whilst the actions of the CCP is absolute shit, why are we rushing to support a side who is fighting how many wars? Who are using terror weapons in those wars like depleted uranium rounds, drones, and killing how many civilians?

    Another perspective if you’re interested, and whilst I don’t agree with this link totally, it is good food for the brain.

    https://www.blackagendareport.com/casualties-old-cold-war-should-inform-opposition-us-new-cold-war-against-china

  13. ‘Oh…so the US and UK also need to realise same, and not go round invading half the world causing a million deaths over just the past two decades?’
    Jesus Mark why do you ALWAYS think two wrongs make one right?
    You keep coming back to the same thing.
    The USA and other nations do bad things and that means the Chinese Communist party are allowed to kill people who disagree with it.
    You remind me of Indira Ghandi’s remark about negotiating with China.
    It is like a neighbour who borrowed a pot and did not return it.
    First she does not know what you are talking about and there is no pot.
    Second you gave it to her so she does not have to give it back.
    Third it was broken when you gave it to her and so you should give money to compensate her.
    Fourth she will punish you if you keep asking her to return something you took from her.
    Then you just repeat everything again.
    To repeat: We do criticize other nations-often. They recognise this for what it is. Constructive debate.
    They do not throw screaming hissy fits threatening to poke our eyes out.
    Give my regard to your ‘Tongshi’ I hope they do good things for you. God knows you need it.
    Long live the Dalai Lama and ten thousand years of life to the Panchen Lama. Liberation for the oppressed minorities of China!

    • This is not ‘whataboutism’ blah blah blah

      You said other countries done have a hissy fit if they are offended. Yes they fucking do. Countries that offend the US get invaded or subverted (like Cuba and Venezuala etc)

      China at most just does what it did to Australia – stops buying stuff

  14. Actually Mark I owe you an apology. I claimed you were up the Chinese Ambassadress’s dress.
    I spoke to her office today and her assistant said Ms Wu does not have any personal contact with the people who snivel and whine on the Chinese Communist Party’s behalf.
    Basically she has people ( very low ranking people) to do that for her.
    You are repeating what you said on a previous occasion and I answered then. True to form you just keep repeating the same cliches.
    ‘If the Chinese communists were really as bloodthirsty as they are made out to be here, there would be no minorities left in China after 70 years. The facts are minority populations have increased under CCP rule faster than the Han population. Indeed minorities were not restricted to one child whereas Han were. Genocide my ass.’
    I would agree you are my ass except I have a male donkey and he is quite intelligent.

    ‘According to a secret PLA document purportedly captured by the guerrillas fighting the Chinese army, 87,000 deaths were recorded in Lhasa between March 1959 and September 1960.( Reuters)
    “If there was a film made on all the atrocities perpetrated in Qinghai Province, it would shock the viewers. In Golok area, many people were killed and their dead bodies rolled down the hill into a big ditch. The soldiers told the family members and relatives of the dead people that they should celebrate since the rebels have been wiped out. They were forced to dance on the dead bodies. Soon after, they were also massacred with machine guns…In Amdo and Kham, people were subjected to unspeakable atrocities. People were shot in groups of ten or twenty… Such actions have left deep wounds in the minds of the people”( this statement was made by the tenth Panchen Lama. Also when I visited Golok in 199 locals could show me the site of massacres. I saw a human skull in a maizefield nearby and was told it is quite common to find human remains from the bodies scattered around the area)
    That is Tibet. This from Inner Mongoila
    ‘after the Cultural Revolution, during the purge, 346,000 people were arrested, 16,222 people were persecuted to death or killed directly, and over 81,000 were permanently injured and disabled.Other estimates have put a death toll between 20,000 and 100,000, while hundreds of thousands were arrested and persecuted, and over a million people were affected.’
    As I have told you before Mark my wife’s relatives remember this time well. The cry of the Red Guards
    ‘Sha Yang! Xiao mei Hu!’ kill the foreigners exterminate the non-han nomads!
    Were you there Mark? Were you among the good little Red Guards who celebrated Mongolian barbecue by pushing Mongols face down into their cooking fires? Did you smash the temples and urinate on the heads of monks and nuns? Are you proud of it?
    If anyone does not believe me they can travel to the grasslands and talk to the old people and see their scars.
    I can also give you information from non-han people in Manchuria( which the Chinese call Dong Bei because they are not allowed to call it Manchuria), Sichuan, Yunnan and Guizhou.
    The fact is Mark that these minorities still exist and thrive because they are resilent people not through any goodwill from the Chinese Communists. Their virility is proved by the number of times they have defeated the Han Chinese and ruled over them as the Manchus( Qing Dynasty) Yuan(Mongols)Tang( Goturks)Jin ( Jurchens)Xia( Tanguts). There is also the fact that the Tibetan Empire once ruled most of Western China up to Xian.
    Now I have criticised you for dwelling on past events but…
    In fact the record suggests China does best when it is ruled by someone other than Han Chinese so come on dump the Chinese Communist Party and invite the Huzhu to their natural position as your masters. Lose the terror you have of these people( rightly because despite their small numbers they have a long record of victory over you). Once again enjoy the prosperity of Tang and Qing and peaceful relations with the neighbouring world.

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