Reclaiming Guy Fawkes

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Remember, remember the fifth of November
Gunpowder, treason and plot
I see no reason why gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot

I don’t complain about your fucking dog barking all the time, so one night a year I will let off fireworks!

I’m sorry.

I like Guy Fawkes.

I do.

The joy of my younger years running around with double-happys and sparklers and moon rockets have been all but reduced to sparklers these days as we have relentlessly moved to reduce the more dangerous elements of fireworks but the idea behind Guy Fawkes is one so beautiful that I don’t want it to leave us.

I  do not want us to lose the spirit of rebellion that Guy Fawkes represented.

When I burn the Guy on my bonfire, I’m not burning some Catholic zealot from 400 years ago, I’m burning the 1%, I’m burning neoliberalism, I’m burning vested corporate interests, I’m burning the deep state and I’m burning the 5 Fucking eyes.

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We should as the Activist Left, take back Guy Fawkes Day and make the symbolic burning of the 1%, neoliberalism, vested corporate interests, the deep state and the 5 Eyes a fundamental part of the celebration.

In the words of V from V for Vendetta…

People should not be afraid of their governments, governments should be afraid of their people”

…as a nation of sheep, we need more symbolic rebellion, not less.

The Neanderthal glee of loud fire mixed with the exhilaration of different coloured exploding fire is a pleasure I refuse to relinquish!

You can take my sparkler out of my dead cold hands.

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55 COMMENTS

  1. I always liked fireworks, and V for Vendetta is excellent.

    Poor Guy, however, looks to me to have been the fall guy of perfidious Albion’s attempt to build popularity for James the 1st. Catching a terrorist with a huge bomb without him setting it off probably means you have an inside man at least, and maybe set up the whole thing.

    • OBhave: “Catching a terrorist with a huge bomb without him setting it off probably means you have an inside man at least, and maybe set up the whole thing.”

      Ha! The original false flag attack, maybe?

  2. In the days when we were ignorant and stupid, setting off highly combustible chemicals that realsed toxic chemicals into the air and littered the ground with rubbish was excusable, but now that we are know the Earth is undergoing meltdown and is becoming increasingly toxic to life and waste is an ever-increasing problem, s being behaving ignorantly and stupidly such a good idea?

    Fireworks probably makes little difference to the overall toxicity of the system because the general level of ignorance and stupidity is so high.

    As for celebrating the capture and torture and murder of a group of conspirators who were planning mass murder, well, that’s what they did in those days. Nowadays mass murder is done remotely via LED screens and missiles and bombs.

    ‘We should as the Activist Left, take back Guy Fawkes Day and make the symbolic burning of the 1%, neoliberalism, vested corporate interests, the deep state and the 5 Eyes a fundamental part of the celebration.’

    You’ll have to market that effectively -maybe 40-60% off, must end Monday- because the dumbed-down masses love what the 1% are delivering….endless supplies of low-wag-economy-made crap and overflowing land fills.

  3. I’m with you Martin, the little sh*ts next door shriek endlessly, revenge will be sweet.
    And as for Guy, how dare the fiendish neolibs attempt to deny us a celebration of our cultural heritage!

  4. Governments are afraid of their people & so are the 1%, that’s why they distract them with bread & circuses, and that’s why they want them disarmed. Remember that next time you’re crowing about banning guns, the real gun fascists are the Police & the Government and you should know that better than anyone, especially after the Dotcom raid and the way people like you & Nicky Hager have been treated.

  5. Hold on. What? You’re in support of commemorating a reactionary move against the emergence of Parliamentary democracy?

  6. Hear! Hear! I like Guy Fawkes too. Like I said before, my mum would not let us celebrate Guy Fawkes, on the grounds that Guy Fawkes was a good Catholic man ( try not to think Bill English ) who was set up.

    When my siblings went collecting for it, she made them go around the street and return every single penny to its rightful owner. At the time I assumed that they did as told, but am not so sure now, as two grew up to be whopping great liars, and one lighter of finger than the Artful Dodger.

    Guy Fawkes is part of our receding European history, and history is part of us; it can be mangled, rewritten, or perfidiously distorted and exploited, but it is still part of where many came from or escaped from – and it can provide a jolly good defence when caught out – there’s nothing like a ready-made excuse.

    Dunno whether it’s ok to culturally appropriate the alleged actions of Mr Fawkes when cultural appropriation is infinitely worse than smoking cigarettes or beating up little old ladies ( or big old ladies), but the symbolism of just blowing up exploiters is pretty ok, and it’s fun.

    • Snow White: “Hear! Hear! I like Guy Fawkes too.”

      I’m with you on this. It’s a part of our heritage: at least those of us who are of English descent. And that heritage is warts and all, as it is for all human societies. No plaster saints anywhere.

      Nor is anybody now alive responsible for what happened before we were born. As the centuries pass, the original significance of events usually recedes away. So it is with Guy Fawkes Day.

      “Dunno whether it’s ok to culturally appropriate the alleged actions of Mr Fawkes…”

      Well, we’ve culturally appropriated fireworks, which were invented by the Chinese. But I don’t think that they’re greatly bothered by it.

      Our Central European relatives mark New Year with a big fireworks display (in the snow, when we were there), so it isn’t just the Brits who’ve gleefully nabbed a Good Idea and made it part of their culture.

      I guess that fireworks arrived in Europe via the Silk Road, centuries ago, along with silk and tea and spices and porcelain and wheelbarrows. And moveable type….

      • D’Esterre – I have NO English blood. Got it ? To admit to such in today’s New Zealand, is to live dangerously, and be vilified for the alleged sins of the long ago fathers. ( I do know who my dad was, and his, and his – right into continental Europe at that stage.)

        In fact my people suffered hugely at the hands of the English, as many did with colonial powers, but still I am an Anglophile…enjoy the lark ascending…and the warp and woof of so much intertwined history, and most especially the poets – if that’s okay with you.

        When we are Chinese the fireworks should be totally spectacular – better than the National Library burn-up of books from an older civilised outside world.

        • Snow White: “…I have NO English blood. Got it ? To admit to such in today’s New Zealand, is to live dangerously, and be vilified for the alleged sins of the long ago fathers.”

          Heh! Well I do, though not much, to be sure. However: I’m unapologetic about it, especially since that ancestry is from Yorkshire. What’s not to be proud of? Criticise them at one’s peril, say I. They were ordinary, hardworking people. As much victims of the British Empire in their way as were any of the indigenes of NZ and elsewhere.

          “In fact my people suffered hugely at the hands of the English…”

          As did mine.

          “….but still I am an Anglophile…enjoy the lark ascending…and the warp and woof of so much intertwined history, and most especially the poets…”

          Hmm…. there’s that small but important matter of cultural appropriation. There’s a bit of angst about it at the moment. This, for instance:

          https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/123317639/burrito-makers-accused-of-misusing-latin-american-and-mexican-cultures

          Although, of course, it never seems to occur to anybody that the British – and Europeans generally – are having their culture appropriated by all and sundry, including by those same indigenes who shout about their own cultural memes being appropriated.

          The indigenes of South America gleefully appropriated European baroque music, and made it their own. To the very great listening pleasure of those of us who are familiar with it. I’ve never heard of any Europeans who were unhappy about their own musical tradition being adopted by other cultures. That’s not how we think.

          I recently heard on Concert a lovely hymn from Bach’s St Matthew Passion. A listener contacted the presenter to say that it had put them in mind of Jonathan Lemalu singing the same piece. Now, I thought: there we have a classic case of cultural appropriation. But does anybody think of it that way? Especially those of us from whose culture it comes? We do not. And to do so would be unbelievably woke and silly.

          Besides, Lemalu has a glorious voice: he could sing the back of a cereal packet (as the saying goes) and still make it sound like high art.

    • LOVED
      when cultural appropriation is infinitely worse than smoking cigarettes or beating up little old ladies

      sigh! yes, the tyranny of woke.

      • Ms Coffee: “LOVED
        when cultural appropriation is infinitely worse than smoking cigarettes or beating up little old ladies”

        Fantastic, isn’t it! Give that Snow White a medal for thinking of it, say I.

        • D’Esterre – The thing is, that cultural appropriation, is the ultimate in flattery, but in today’s mad world, suddenly it has become a mortal sin, with almost anything liable to be subject to a kindergarten toy snatching level accusation, instead of being appreciated for the acknowledgement of it’s own intrinsic worth; this sort of deeply anti-social mindset, is fractionalising the social community, and that may be its purpose. It is also immature and tiresome.

          • Snow White: “….cultural appropriation, is the ultimate in flattery, but in today’s mad world, suddenly it has become a mortal sin….”

            I completely agree. I do think that in NZ, it’s a small subset only which jumps up and down about this. Completely overlooking their own appropriation of the trappings of other cultures.

            However, the msm has become infested with wokeness, along with white guilt, and uncritically report it.

            We can also see this happening in the woke hellhole that north America has become.

  7. I prefer to regard the day as the 139th anniversary of the invasion of Parihaka. The sound and smell of explosives is appropriately chaotic and intimidating for that occassion.

    • There are some who may prefer it to commemorate the genocidal Great Famine of Ireland, or the Brits starving to death five million Bengalis, or the evil brutality of the Highland Clearances, but the simple fact is that Guy Fawkes Day evolved in its country of origin, into what it has become, and that cultural misappropriation is a two way street, and that deliberately mushrooming fireworks displays into representations of chaos and intimidation is not exactly a recipe for racial harmony.

    • There are some who may prefer it to commemorate the genocidal Great Famine of Ireland, or the Brits starving to death five million Bengalis, or the evil brutality of the Highland Clearances, but the simple fact is that Guy Fawkes Day evolved in its country of origin, into what it has become, and that cultural misappropriation is a two way street, and that deliberately mushrooming fireworks displays into representations of chaos and intimidation is not exactly a recipe for racial harmony.

      • Guy Fawkes is very English, Applewood. It is just past midnight there so hardly started yet, but at least the ground won’t be tinder dry and it gets dark before 10pm. The invasion of Parihaka at 5am (NZ time) on the 5th of November 1881 is a much more important important part of Aotearoan history, than this vestigial festival.
        Rape, forced labour & starvation are not exactly recipes for racial harmony either.

        • Did anybody sane ever think that rape, forced labour, and starvation were recipes for racial harmony ? The commanding officer at Parihaka was likely as mad as the murderous officer at Amritsar, or as evil; many of our histories carry terrible burdens of shadows.

  8. I love backyard fireworks too Martyn. But climate change and the spread of flammable invasive pines means we are headed for the Aussie scenario of fireworks posing a serious bushfire risk. Sad but true.

    • Oh Fred ! You do insult to the cleaners who burn the midnight oil on Parliament Hlll with no dishonest intent, but hoping only to get home in time to see the kids off to school – with or without breakfast – and grabbing a bit of a nap before moving on to their second job. Even the days of swiping toilet paper and soap are long gone, with both nowadays securely installed against migration, and accessible only for the sanitary purposes of pollies.

      The government chauffeurs drive to their graves with heads full of untold secrets – often knowing that some braying ass assumes that they are a dumb oxen – while maintaining a discretion and honesty not always the hallmark of the said ass.

  9. I remember kids losing eyes to homemade fireworks and bullies setting off double happy’s to intimidate other kids. They are stupid, polluting and dangerous and terrify animals. Celebrating the burning of an actual real individual from history is disgusting. Grow up.

    • cars are dangerous people don’t just lose their eyes,
      alcohol dangerous,
      sweets dangerous…….

      Lets see the real statistics over the injuries every year that we get a beat up on.

      A bit like the helicopters we had buzzing our city for some time on trial, big write up what they caught. No comparison with what extra cops on the beat could have done,
      No comparison with the costs of both.

      Thank goodness it buggered off!

      Yes we had a big bonfire every year at our property in Otautahi and lots of neighbours came and we loved throwing tom thumbs into a forty four gallon drum to make that great ‘thud’, we were a big raga tag of a family and lots of neighbours came it was wonderful

      I am appalled that there seems to be increasing ‘noise’ to have these canned. None of it for us had anything to do with the bloke it is named after. I would never ever go to a ‘big’ event, grandchildren and fireworks in the backyard is a rite of passage.

    • @ LC.
      “Celebrating the burning of an actual real individual from history is disgusting.”
      It would depend on who you were burning. If they were more flammable than usual then exploded it’d be hilarious.
      “Grow up.”
      Speaking for myself…No. Never.

  10. I had a dream one night that something distressful was happening to one of my goats. Then out of the blue a week or so later there were extremely loud booming fireworks going off next door (fireworks are much more powerful than you and I were kids) and my three goats, two females and one kid, were running around in mad terror. It was only luck that no serious injury was afforded to any of them. It was a pretty unpleasant experience and what people with animals have to go through for about three or four months of every year. I just don’t see how that is acceptable.

    • 3 or 4 months, look I live in Christchurch and I have heard fireworks most nights for the past week, certainly never for 3 or 4 months or anything like it.

  11. Well you outed the woke wowser puritans Martyn!
    Absolutely have some responsible fun in your life.
    Our kids won’t get to see fireworks this year because we are rural (safest place to let them off) but local supermarkets don’t sell them any more and we can’t get to a city with a warehouse midweek on the days you are allowed to buy.
    It seems while being too gutless to ban them, they just make it as hard as they can.

  12. Brilliantly defiant @ MB. You grip your sparkler with all your might.
    I too love Guy Fawkes night and for all the reasons many people don’t.
    Once, years ago, like almost 40 years ago, ( OMG! ) when the terrible ticking nuclear clock was nearly at midnight my kids and me went up onto the paddock up the back of our house in Lyttelton where I grew our pot and kept our two sheep, Hortense and Rambo. We went armed with a length of storm water pipe with which we fired sky rockets up through at the beastly Russian fisher persons moored in the harbour. We thought it was hilariously defiant. I don’t think the Russians even noticed.
    I knew a lovely fellow now RI in P (Died of cancer) who owned Lucifer Fireworks Company. He nearly blew up the Common Wealth Games Park in Ch Ch and I almost blinded Billy T James that night but that’s another story.
    The fellow was a Master and Professional pyrotechnician who put on massive shows complete with those fabulous mortars that could shake the ground and send huge clay balls packed with explosives into the heavens. One thing that should be remembered about mortars and their explosives is to never put the projectile into the mortar upside down. Which is what happened. Oh! The glorious chaos of it all !
    The only time he was injured by his chosen profession was when he was in flagrante delicto with a pretty young female human.
    They were in bed during half time when he noticed his old pot belly stove had gone out. So, he walked naked to his work shop for wood and a small cup of what he thought was kerosene but was instead lighter fluid. He poured in the liquid, struck a match and promptly blew up, throwing the remains of the lighter fluid over himself in fright which in turn ignited. He howled in shock and on fire as he leaped onto his bed to try and roll out the flames in the bedding which he succeeded to do but got quite serious third degree burns to his torso and upper body. His female human front bottom special cuddles friend of a friend never tired of telling that story. The funny thing was, he had to discharge himself from Burwood Hospital early with his burns to fly to France to attend an international Pyrotechnics convention where he said, much to his relief, that he wasn’t the only one covered in bandages and without eyebrows, fringes, moustaches, side burns, arm hair etc.
    My last Guy Fawkes night was in Bluff. Was fucking awesome!
    There were some serious ka-booms man. I mean really. Definitely not weak kneed, off-the-shelf pop-fart things. Proper black market stuff or home made. Parents? Ask your children first?
    Remember the ticking nuclear war thing I mentioned above?
    Not long after that particular Guy Fawkes ( I think…? ) a couple of guys were venting one of the massive fuel holding tanks in the harbour as per routine maintenance etc and ignited the latent petrol gasses still inside with a faulty industrial fan arrangement.
    I’d just laid down beside my female human partner after a trip to the toilet at about 7.00 am when there was an explosion unmatched to this day in AO/NZ from my experience.
    Not only was there the expected BOOM ! but there was also the CRASH ! as the lid of the tank fell back to earth. I leaped, like a gazelle to the curtains just in time to see a huge fire ball rolling heaven ward and without the souls of the guys who were at ground zero thankfully. They leaped/clambered a tall netting fence with all the acumen of highly trained athletes then wisely ran like fuck.
    But oh! The fun? The stories? Those were the days. Before 9/11 saw razor wire go up around Port and before little roger douglas and his mates’ fucking awful greed derailed our society.
    In came the orange vest and out went life’s flavours.
    If you’ve got a dog? Pop it inside and feed it double rations with the radio playing. Doesn’t need to be loud. Works a treat.

    • Nothing around here tonight, but I am practising ‘ leaping like a gazelle to the curtains’ just in case something eventuates… I might have buggered up my knee, but the other one is holding out… so far…

      • Snow White: “I might have buggered up my knee, but the other one is holding out… so far…”

        Heh! Me too. Right knee is kaput, but the other one boxing along. I can manage with one fully-functioning joint. So far.

        Having seen the effects of knee surgery on my partner, I ain’t lettin’ no surgeon near mine, thanks. I intend to fall off the perch, with the Bits I was born with still attached.

        Very little in the way of fireworks hereabouts tonight. But then, it is raining. On the bright side, the air outside is heavy with the scent of Pittosporum tenuifolium.

        Night-scented, inconspicuous little red flowers, grows wild in this area, the scent’d knock one over, it’s so strong. It always flowers this time of year.

    • Country boy: “….when there was an explosion unmatched to this day in AO/NZ from my experience.”

      Heh! This reminded me of an event in Auckland just over 40 years ago, when we were living at the school end of Panama Rd, in Mt Wellington.

      About 7pm one evening, there was a HUGE explosion, which shook the house. We went to investigate, thinking our garden shed had blown up. But no. And nothing that we could see nearby. So we joined the stream of people heading up Panama Rd towards the motorway overbridge and Mt Wellington highway beyond.

      Turned out that an empty petrol tanker had blown up at the side of Mt Wellington highway and opposite the Duke of Wellington pub. The driver had failed to put the cap back on the tanker after emptying it. He was smoking (yup: not illegal then) and chucked his butt out the window, where the updraft caught it and tossed it into the open tanker, where it ignited the residual vapours. He saw the flames, pulled over to the shoulder, jumped out and ran for safety.

      The resulting explosion tore open the tanker and was so large it blew out windows and knocked out power all the way back along Panama Rd to the motorway overbridge. The blast wave pushed a bus into the dairy on the opposite corner of Panama and the highway, and blew out the bus windows.

      Fortunately, nobody died or was seriously injured, but the resulting wreckage was a sight to see. We were over a kilometre away, with the hill in between sheltering us from the blast wave, so our house wasn’t damaged, but it shook as if it were an earthquake. And the sound was something I’ll never forget: it was deafening.

      No, it wasn’t Guy Fawkes Day. Bit of a waste of a good explosion, really, from that point of view.

  13. No fun allowed. Go to work, go home, pay your bills, no culture, no society. Work for the man not yourself, Neo liberalism is great.

  14. Ban McDonalds and all fast food joints that would have a better effect on everyone’s health including animals than banning fireworks would!

  15. “We should as the Activist Left, take back Guy Fawkes Day and make the symbolic burning of the 1%, neoliberalism, vested corporate interests, the deep state and the 5 Eyes a fundamental part of the celebration.”

    And why not! Here in Wellington, the public fireworks display over the harbour that we used to have on Guy Fawkes Day was offed some years ago by the woke left. Bunch of humourless zealots that they are….

    Many of us want it to return. We weren’t even asked: just had it done to us.

    • That was the Mayor of Shelley Bay. He said that Guy Fawkes was not relevant to New Zealand. Thank goodness he’s gone, hopefully never to return. Time was I attended WCC committee meetings, and made submissions, but half the meetings appear to be closed to the public now, while they plot in secret just like conspirators always have.

      It was a very high-handed attempt to negate several generations of New Zealand cultural experience, and importantly, another sly attack on our European heritage – while the hard issues like a clapped-out water supply, leaking sewage, and power cuts, seem sidestepped.

      Wellington City Council’s decision to cancel Guy Fawkes Day was nothing to do with safety, or with historical accuracy, or with moral or ethical issues, it was a value judgment which should not have been made in the manner and context which it was.

      Saying that it was not relevant to New Zealand was a lie when it has been so very clearly historically relevant to many New Zealanders, and this looks like another example of an official body trying to direct how citizens should think.

      • Snow White: “Thank goodness he’s gone, hopefully never to return.”

        Hear hear! Trouble is, once an event like the Guy Fawkes fireworks display is gone, it’s almost impossible to get back. As we’ve seen.

        “It was a very high-handed attempt to negate several generations of New Zealand cultural experience, and importantly, another sly attack on our European heritage – while the hard issues like a clapped-out water supply, leaking sewage, and power cuts, seem sidestepped.”

        Wasn’t it just? He was an arrogant little man, who appeared to believe his own publicity, qu’on dit. Then he inflicted upon all of us the outrageous cost – and sheer wokery – of his wrongheaded rainbow pedestrian crossing. I haven’t been in that area lately, but I do hope that it’s gone the same way he has. I’d be enraged to find out that WCC is wasting on its upkeep ratepayer dollars which ought properly to go to the upgrade of infrastructure.

        In any event, we showed him the door, did we not?

        “Saying that it was not relevant to New Zealand was a lie when it has been so very clearly historically relevant to many New Zealanders, and this looks like another example of an official body trying to direct how citizens should think.”

        Yup. The thought police. Aided and abetted by that cringingly awful concept: white guilt.

        • I’m not now sure whether this originated with that then mayor, or with his other Johnsonville-ite who heads the WCC committee to have Wellington a te reo city by 2040, with the sort of social engineering which ironically, has been a hallmark of Fascism, Communism, and until fairly recently, Roman Catholicism.

          Did anything good ever come out of Johnsonville anyway ? Yes ! A rainbow pedestrian crossing signifying that those very well-paid councillors embrace the
          alphabet community by treading all over its most visible emblem ( where are you Sigmund Freud ? ) while simultaneously rejecting Guy Fawkes because it’s a white English sort of thing. That’s pretty racist.

          A current hugely academically qualified WCC councillor didn’t attend a WCC Treaty course, which he perceived as possibly erroneous in it’s message concerning sovereignty issues. I see the WCC as totally at odds with the Parliamentary interpretation of the ToW, and therefore, treasonous. This could be the crux of their anti -Guy Fawkes agitation – mental confusion concerning the status of the legally dubious.

          Sooner or later central govt will have to look into this – the rest of us will be too busy digging wells in our back yards to ensure the water supplies which we do actually need.

          Those kids with bonfires on bomb sites in London’s East End well into the 70’s, were just enjoying a bit of community togetherness without any great concerns about political issues, but here some so-called politicians will grab at anything at all to distract us from their inability or unwillingness to do their jobs as designated.

          • Snow White: “I’m not now sure whether this originated with that then mayor, or with his other Johnsonville-ite…”

            Johnsonville or Tawa? The other councillor, I mean. Either way, it was the worst sort of wokery. Could have been her: maybe Lester was having an acute attack of political correctness and supported her because of it.

            “…who heads the WCC committee to have Wellington a te reo city by 2040…”

            Good luck with that… Even were it achievable, if it were to involve a bunch of second-language speakers (as seemed to be the case), it wouldn’t save the language. WCC has gone quiet on that, I note. Lester certainly didn’t campaign on it for re-election. I hear tell that no consideration at all had been given to the very considerable costs that would be involved. Well: fancy that.

            With regard to that other councillor, I’m told by folks who know, that she’d be classified as “born-again”, an expression used by other Maori in the 70s and 80s to describe such people.

            “….treading all over its most visible emblem ( where are you Sigmund Freud ? ) while simultaneously rejecting Guy Fawkes because it’s a white English sort of thing.”

            That whole thing was so bizarre and cock-eyed, all one can do is to laugh at it. I note, though, that characterising cultural practices as “white”, is exactly the definition of racism beloved of commenters on this site.

            And: speaking of the “white” epithet, here we go again. I’m guessing that you’ll have seen this:

            https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/123317791/city-councillor-removes-tweet-calling-public-submitters-absolute-knobs

            Now there’s a young woman who needs some education – in plain good manners. Oh, and comprehension: I understood perfectly the point that was being made. Pity that Councillor Paul was unable to do likewise.

            “….WCC councillor didn’t attend a WCC Treaty course…”

            Yeah, I believe that he’s yet to do so. From what I saw of the incident which provoked this, I’d say that, like Councillor Paul, he could do with lessons in good manners, rather than anything to do with the Treaty.

            “I see the WCC as totally at odds with the Parliamentary interpretation of the ToW, and therefore, treasonous.”

            I don’t. I’m mindful of what happened in the 1970s. The so-called “principles” of the Treaty were a post facto attempt to freight meanings on to it that went far beyond what the text can bear or what the signatories could have imagined or intended. We have Geoff Palmer to thank for that: I am among the many people who listened to him at the time trying – and failing – to explain what those principles were. Winston Peters was one who called him out on that issue.

            A family member has a law degree, studied the Treaty and related issues, of course. We’ve debated this at length. Palmer was doubtless well-intentioned, but it doesn’t follow that he was correct to do as he did. And now we’re living with the consequences.

            No question that Lester’s claim of Guy Fawkes Day being irrelevant to NZ is one of those consequences.

            An attempt at social engineering? You better believe it.

  16. Guy Folks, did i spell that right, used to when so young cut down drag trees for the biggest fire, with our GUY,on top of our bonfire, months cutting dragging trees and other fire burn, to in our backyard football size playing yard, our bonfire look at our size, and five more flaming up. Guy Faulks, what a lie the English done.

    • Austringer: I have read your three comments, but I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

      Perhaps you could enlighten us? Just try not to speak in parables, if you would be so good.

  17. Ok, those of you who couldn’t give a damn about the cruelty free use of fireworks can do: I am not that old or that experienced with back yard fireworks, but what I have personally experienced is this: A friends horse was so terrified by fireworks it frantically tried to escape, ran into the wire fence, got tangled up, was so badly injured it had to be put down, destroying my friend who loved that horse more than anything. A boy I know at age 14, a friend’s son, got injured by a free flying fireworks and lost his eye. That is a totally preventable injury and yeah what a pity… and that is for life. Poor boy. What a stupid injury. Not his fault. And me, yes I was that person a bully at a school camp threw a bunch of double happy’s at for a laugh and to humiliate me. I was terrified, could not hear for a whole day in that ear, and was humiliated too as they all laughed when they saw my reaction. Obviously I never forgot that. This is why I hate fireworks. They are representative of destruction, brutality through stupidity and cruelty, to me. They absolutely should be highly regulated and not used in areas where any animals will come to harm not just that poor lonely barking dog next door that annoys you so much because… it is lonely. You libertarian assholes. Fuck you.

    • LC. Boys do dumb things. That’s one reason why the sale of fireworks has been subjected to age restrictions since 2017.

      If the bad things which you describe happened since then, they most certainly should have been reported to the police. The SPCA also act promptly on animal cruelty issues.

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