Talking saying nothing – The final Trump-Biden debate 

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There must be some way outta here, said the Joker to the Thief

Isn’t it deeply disappointing and dreadfully sad that these two old men are the challengers for the most powerful job in the world – nothing highlights the decline of the West more than this pantomime of a debate.

It seems insane that these feeble old men warble at each other while America burns with social injustice and Covid.

The fear is that Republicans vote on the day while Democrats postal vote and that on election night Trump has a slim majority without counting the mail in votes and declares victory while promptly starting legal challenges to stymie the mail in votes.

The disarray that will occur if Trump is not soundly defeated on the night could tear the Union asunder.

When you consider the enormity of the danger Trump poses, the debate was meaningless.

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40 COMMENTS

  1. If you think that Trump poses a danger that Biden does not pose then you are quite wrong. The US economy is totally dependent on it’s military industrial complex. All other activities have been outsourced. The president is a figure head who’s function is to mouth explanations and propaganda and lies about US motives and actions with these MIC all over the world. Biden is completely content as Hillary was to play that part. Trump is a problem because he has some ideas of his own about how things should be run.
    He is getting out of Afghanistan , he has tried ti get out of Syria , he called off o war with Iran when the planes where in the air. I strongly suspect he was never told about it until the planes where in the air.
    Biden will do whatever the MIC want him to do, and if that is to start a war with Russia and China, that is what will happen. Trump will not do that.
    As for covid, the way the health system is run in the US it did not matter who was president, the “user pays” priority leaves their system with no tools to address an epidemic among a huge section of the population who have nothing to pay with. There’s nothing the president could do about that. Though nothing he said has helped I give you that.
    The opening line “Isn’t it deeply disappointing and dreadfully sad that these two old men are the challengers for the most powerful job in the world – nothing highlights the decline of the West more than this pantomime of a debate.”
    is true enough. But what it reflects is the irrelevance of this purportedly powerful position. If you attempt to wield that power which technically speaking you have you finish up like JFK. That is what Trump is trying to avoid .
    D J S

    • I don’t doubt that the military industrial complex plays a large role in the American economy but to say all other activities have been outsourced is a little hyperbolic – most of the large tech companies are American, whether they operate internationally or not, many other industries also thrive, it is primarily manufacturing that has been outsourced – something that most countries are struggling with.

      Trying to paint Trump as some kind anti-hero is dishonest; Trump is not a problem because he has idea’s of his own – he’s a problem because he is a sell out, he has no ethics or morals and will happily sacrifice the greater good for personal gain, he has caused irreparable harm to the United States and the world.

      As for Covid – again you are framing the pandemic in a dishonest light, a successful Covid response has nothing at all to do with a user pays healthcare system; by the time patients need healthcare, it’s too late, pandemic control is all about enacting public policy and guidelines to stem the spread of the virus as effectively as possible, something the Trump administration has actively stymied by attempting to downplay the seriousness of the virus for political reasons and advocating against expert advice.

      Biden is not a great candidate by any measure but he is absolutely the lesser of two evils by every measure – Trump is a textbook psychopath, the man has no conscience, he is little more than a spoiled brat who has weaseled his way through life, lying and corruption are the only tricks he knows, he is out of touch with the common man and out of touch with reality, he is remarkable only in so far as he has no redeeming qualities at all.

      • Appreciate a voice of sanity.

        And, if it were revealed that the Biden figure appearing was actually some sort of robotic clone, I think that few would be very surprised.

        Biden may be entirely irrelevant to this election. It is between those who want what Trump represents and those who loathe him, and some who are hoping that Biden will keel over in his first six months and they’ll get their first female prez.

        • “This is not just an election between Donald Trump and Joe Biden,” Sanders said, referring to the Democratic presidential nominee. “This is an election between Donald Trump and democracy, and democracy must win.”
          Bernie Sanders Rips Trump

          “Trump’s strategy to delegitimize this election and to stay in office if he loses is not complicated,” the Vermont senator contended.

      • “Trying to paint Trump as some kind anti-hero is dishonest; Trump is not a problem because he has idea’s of his own – he’s a problem because he is a sell out, he has no ethics or morals and will happily sacrifice the greater good for personal gain, he has caused irreparable harm to the United States and the world.”
        I could never watch more than 30 seconds of an “Apprentice” show. Trump’s style has always left me cold. He is crude rude and totally unattractive to my mind. But clearly many must have seen him otherwise. But to try to explain his run for president and his style as president as being for personal gain seems to lack any reflection. He might get an ego boost from being the P but that applies to any of them. But financial gain? No. He would be making far more concentrating on his business interests. None of those properly wealthy people waste their time in politics. They buy the political environment they want and keep their noses clean.
        A successful covid response requires willing co-operation and buy in of the whole population. And somewhere clean and safe to live. The former is not available to any US politician and the latter unavailable to thousands of homeless in US cities.
        D J S

        • Personal gain can also apply to his political future and campaign finances, but Trump himself is a brand, inseparable from the man, the presidency both serves his ego’s aspirations and is invaluable to his branding while also funnelling money into his business interests by billing his frequent trips and stays to his own resorts back to the taxpayer – including the large bill for his entourage, then who knows how many laws are being stripped of their protections and shady deals with lobbyists to benefit him after his presidency ends. He is a swindler who was privileged with a fortune from birth, bereft of even an iota of shame, the man exemplifies all that is wrong with the system.

          Homeless people are responsible for the proliferation of Covid in the USA?? Gosh you sound like a Trump strategist, are you sure it wasn’t the Mexicans too? Never mind that Trump himself has actively discouraged best practice to rile up his voter base, caught downplaying the severity the pandemic posed for political reasons, withdrawing funding from the WHO and pretty much doing the opposite of everything a rational actor would do.

          • As I have said I don’t give a damn about Trump But I am interested in trying to arrive at an objective view of what is going on in the US because it looks like they might start a major war which could put CO2 emissions into perspective in their relative significance.
            The pecuniary advantages that you identify as attracting Trump to the presidency are loose change to someone in his financial position. A multibillionaire does not have an incentive to use the office for it’s opportunities to enrich himself , he would increase his wealth far more sticking to his day job. Biden on the other hand started life poor and from collage identified to his mates that he was going to get rich through politics. For someone in his position there is an incentive to use the office that way because it is his path to relative wealth, and the news is full of his activities in co-operation with his son to do just that.
            The main issue for me is whether the US is going to be more or less belligerent under a Democrat, and my feeling is they are likely to be worse given the rhetoric .

  2. Meh. Despite all his bloviating, Trump has been a relatively benign President so far. For starters, unlike both Bush and Obama, he has yet to start or escalate a war. He never built the wall. He didn’t lock up Hillary. And, like all his predecessors, he hasn’t “drained the swamp”. So basically the same as every other US President, minus the warmongering but still with all the required corporate worshipping all delivered with even more hot air than usual.

    • Well, since you nay-say the scientific consensus on climate change I hardly expect you to see the reality of the greatest threat that Trump and the coalition of the Republican Party and the religious right-wing pose.

        • “Oh wait.”

          Indeed. One by one, the Trump Admin has rolled them back.
          This from Inside Climate Change News

          Trump has accomplished his mission: a near total elimination of his predecessor’s most significant measures.

          After countless piecemeal rollbacks during Trump’s first two and a half years in office, the administration in June 2019 launched its long-awaited attack on Obama’s signature plan to tackle climate change. Designed to cut emissions from coal-fired power plants, Obama called it the Clean Power Plan.

          While the plan was challenged by industry and 27 states and blocked by the U.S. Supreme Court before Obama even left office, it encouraged many states to begin a process of planning for a transition away from coal-fired electricity at a time when cheaper natural gas and renewable energy already were forcing coal plants to shut down.

          Full article at the link.

        • On Trump’s rollbacks, from The Intercept: Trump Admin Races to Demolish Enviro Protections

          Throughout his presidency, Donald Trump has presided over the rollback of more environmental rules and regulations than any other president. The result has been that, even as climate change is on track to soon force millions of Americans from their homes and eventually heat the Earth to temperatures not seen for 34 million years, the leader of the country that bears more responsibility for the climate change than any other has doubled down on the decimation of efforts meant to combat both pollution and the climate crisis.

          “The Trump administration is the first in the history of the agency to devote itself so relentlessly to a rollback agenda without even a pretense of meaningfully reducing environmental pollution,” said John Walke, an attorney and senior adviser to the NRDC Action Fund. Much info at The Intercept link. 19/9/2020

            • On 15th October 2019 Russia formally ratified the Paris Agreement on Climate action: Twitter Link Here

              Climate Change News, Russia Formally Joins Paris Climate agreement

              Excerpt:
              The world’s fourth largest emitter, Russia, has formally adopted the Paris Agreement, drawing an end to months of national tensions on the subject.

              “The Russian Federation has accepted the Paris Agreement and is becoming a full-fledged participant of this international instrument,” Ruslan Edelgeriev, the president’s climate advisor, told the United Nations Climate Action Summit in New York, before proceeding to list the country’s climate contributions.

              “Russia is already playing a leading role in reducing greenhouse gas emissions compared to the 1990 base-line,” he continued. “Our total emissions over this period have decreased almost by half. This represent 41 billion tonnes of CO2 equivalent which on the planetary scale has allowed to cumulatively hold global warming for an entire year.”

  3. Either a blowout to Biden or a squeaky to Trump. Key states early will be North Carolina, Florida and Georgia. Hold all those and he’s on the path to victory.

    General public vote means squat in this election. It comes down to 5 million independent voters in approx. 10 states who wins. As a guide these are mainly suburban women so at this stage advantage Biden.

    LOL The meltdown of the MSM if Trump manages to get up will be the best thing to watch since the end game fight scene. For amusement watch the SNL election night skit featuring David chapelle and Chris Rock – sums up white democrat privilege perfectly.

  4. Biden is now covered in so much slime from his decades of being an absolute slime-ball:

    “The difference between you and me,” Mr. Trump said to the ever more ghostly Joe Biden, fading mentally late in the action on the debate stage, “is that I’m not a politician and you are, and you’re a crooked politician.” Millions watching this spectacle might not have noticed, due to the media’s near-complete blackout of news detailing the Biden family’s adventures in systematic global moneygrubbing, but the Democratic candidate for president has political Ebola, a hemorrhagic fever of credibility, now gushing out of every pore and orifice.

    Twitter and Facebook may try to squelch the story, but the evidence is all over the Internet now, like blood on a crime scene, in verifiable emails, texts, Snapchats, memoranda, and bank records that Ol’ White Joe Biden is at the center of a decades-long influence-peddling spree, selling his personal services to China, Russia, Ukraine, and any other country seeking favors in US government policy, and that this slime-trail of grift disqualifies him from holding high office as much as the irreversible rot of his cognitive abilities.

    The “Laptop from Hell” affair has twelve more days to play out before the November 3 vote and the Democratic Party is in a terrible jam. Do they ask Mr. Biden to step aside, or do they keep running with him while the barrage of allegations and hard evidence pours down on them like so many mortar rounds on a besieged bunker? It’s obvious now that one way or another, voters are actually being asked to elect Kamala Harris president — but who asked for her? Only the disgraced and disabled head of the ticket, Joe Biden, desperate for a non-white running mate. Elsewise, she was so disliked by voters that she skulked out of the Iowa caucuses, ending her own run. Is Hillary ironing her purple pantsuit up in Chappaqua, awaiting the emergency call from her DNC?

    The early 2020 impeachment gambit has finally blown up in the Democrats’ faces, too, as it’s now obvious the phony furor over Mr. Trump’s phone call to Ukraine President Zelensky was ginned up to smother any inquiry into Hunter Biden’s $83,000-a-month services to the Burisma gas company and its crooked chief, Mykola Zlochevsky, with help from then US Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch and several of her staff, as well as then Secretary of State John Kerry.’

    it’s hard to imagine him making it to the finishing post. And if he does, all hell will probably break out. Indeed, if all hell doesn’t break out over a Biden victory, there is something seriously wrong.

    • So, you happily ignore the mountain of evidence that has implicated the Trump campaign in almost weekly scandals and corruption yet shriek its the end times for the democrats because of some very weak evidence from sources so unreputable that most media outlets refused to cover the story… Sounds plausible

      Occam’s razor; Trump is a lying scumbag, Bidden is a typical politician, you are either so desperate to seem enlightened that you cling to this bullshit because it makes you feel empowered, or you are simply a troll.

      • Trump is a lying scumbag

        It’s worse than that.
        From: <a href="https://www.tomdispatch.com/blog/176751/tomgram%3A_engelhardt%2C_a_vote_for_the_apocalypseA Vote for the Apocalypse

        There’s no question that, at the beck and call of the fossil-fuel industry, Donald Trump and his demonic crew have worked without qualms or remorse to ensure that this would be a fiery and furious America. Freeing that industry of restrictions of every sort, withdrawing from the Paris climate accord, opening up yet more areas for oil drilling, wiping out environmental safeguards, and even (at the very moment when the West was burning) appointing a climate-science denier to a top position at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, the president and his crew proved themselves to be pyromaniacs of the first order.

        “Joe Biden finally called the president a “climate arsonist.” He added, aptly enough, “If you give a climate arsonist four more years in the White House, why would anyone be surprised if we have more of America ablaze?” “

    • On the other hand, a more credible reporter says, The cast of characters involved in “discovering” the laptop was like a roll call of some of Trump’s most discredited associates. At the center of the ploy were Trump’s former chief strategist Steve Bannon, who has been charged with fraud and money laundering related to the border wall with Mexico; and Rudy Giuliani, who has questions of his own to answer over his blush-inducing appearance in Sacha Baron Cohen’s new movie, Borat Subsequent Moviefilm.” Which way do you think the swing in credibility vote will go, the Trumpians or the MSM?

      • So you believe the laptop doesn’t exist aom? Or was not Hunters? or didn’t have the reported emails in it? What? The Bidens don’t seem to be saying its a fabrication ‘ only that Russia did it.
        You would hardly expect it to have been made public by the Democrats, so it’s bound to come out through Trump supporters if at all.
        D J S

  5. Fortunately for me I don’t give a fuck.
    So long as the American Politic stays in America I’ll continue to not give fucks. Build a wall around them, keep them in, don’t give fucks. Problem solved.

    • I would not give a fuck either except for this: any nation that elects a remotely socialist government immediately goes on the list for ‘regime change’ -either hit economically and via assassinations, or literally hit via bombs and missiles raining from the sky.,,all courtesy ‘the land of freedom and democracy’. (Otherwise known as The Biggest Rogue State on the Planet.)

    • You should give a fuck, if you think the policies of the most influential nation on earth don’t make a global difference you are naive or willfully ignorant.

  6. Bernie and his campaign in the earlier primaries of 2016 and 2019-20 just reinforced what i already knew.
    The millions of Americans who are living a third world existence in a wealthy first world country. And the land of the free does not exist for many of the population who are subservient to their wealthy masters of which there are many.
    Even if Biden is miraculously elected as the 46th president he will still be powerless to address the massive challenges that exist. The only hope is a courageous Democratic controlled congress and senate and i use the word courageous loosely may adopt some worthwhile changes but will still be beholden to the ruling establishment and vested interests.
    Trump may hold on by a hairs breath and with an inconclusive result will contest the election in court.
    Biden could win the popular vote but as Clinton found out that does not mean you attain the office.
    The debate was vomit inducing to watch and shows just how far the standards have dropped. I was no wiser on what plans if any these two old decrepit men have to the many challenges facing the enforced masses in the land of the free.

  7. America–a failed state, already, or soon, is the only debate–it is tempting to say “let them at each other “Purge” style” but too many people would be killed, because despite the millions of guns floating around the place, the majority of citizens do not own one! It is primarily the beleaguered, soon to be minority white conservatives that have the home arsenals and militias which account for the claim–more guns than people in the USA.

    The two party system favouring corporate power, Electoral College, 40 mill in California get two Senators–half a mill in Montana get two Senators…voter suppression, gerrymandering, etc. means the place is no longer a democracy where the will of the people prevails. So hopefully enough turn out to elect Mr Biden, just so the world and Americans can have some bloody peace and quiet for a few months from the babbling and tweeting of the orange arsehole currently in the White House.

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