Now Labour have humiliated Greens – the Greens must vow Opposition


With a huge Caucus, Jacinda needs the room in her Cabinet for Labour aspiration, not Green aspiration and will only throw Shaw the scraps of Climate Change Minister.

It’s becoming clear Jacinda see’s her loyalty towards the new National voters, not her own Labour supporters…

And while neither side will be drawn on the chances of a formal coalition, it seems unlikely given Ardern’s comments about Labour’s mandate to govern alone and her wish to respect National supporters who may have ticked red for the first time.

…Does the current Green Leadership team have the tactical smarts to make the next strategic moves? Oh fuck no, totally expect them to goose this up. Nothing progresses until Chloe is the new co-leader.

Chloe must now replace Marama as co-leader of the Greens and she must be given the space to stamp her own leadership on the Party by refusing to join Labour and immediately transition into an Opposition Party because 2023 will see the electorate demographics change to ones that support the Greens, not Labour and the spike in climate change events  alongside Labour’s cautious foot dragging will set the Greens in a position where they can double their current votes as the electorate gets more and more impatient with Jacinda’s neokindess.

TDB Recommends

What’s the point of kindness if it can’t stop climate change and suffering?

Chloe’s genuine transformative vision is the Jacinda we wish we had.

Chloe is a future leader of the UN.

Jacinda knows she can bully and con the current Green leadership into accepting any bullshit deal to gag them for 3 years, but she knows those threats won’t work on the next gen Green MPs who will be far more critical and willing to fight Labour.

The Greens are at a cross roads now, they either walk from Labour and fight the next 3 years as the Opposition focused on climate change and social injustice by constantly highlighting Labour’s shortcomings or they stay shackled to neokindness.


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  1. You need to realize NZ see the Greens as the loony’s with many policies so stupid you can only implement them in coo-coo land, not far of from the wacko’s called Act. The green and act candidates have no credibility and both will wither away in the next three years. Democracy is the will of the majority not the loony tunes of the 7%. Labor has a mandate to implement the will of the sensible majority, not ruin NZ with the loony tunes of the 7%.

    • Democracy shouldn’t mean Dictatorial Majoritarianism. Yes Greens and ACT can’t get all their wishes made true but they do represent the will of a large minority on both left & right of the people. They both have extremes but they’re far from loony. The true loonies are the Communist Left, ONE, NCP, Advance, Vision. Democracy means rule by, for & of the people …both Greens & ACT are of the people. Ardern says she wants to govern for all NZers …well that means more than just pandering to the Soft Nats/Nat-Lite voters & giving olive branchs to the hard Gnats …It also means governing for the environmentalists, economic leftists/nationalists, for the business community/ACT ‘free market economy’ warriors, for the social conservatives a difficult balancing act.

      • LABOUR HAVE FORGOTTEN a large chunk of their vote are Green voters who voted red for the MP’s Seats. So 2023 those RED Green voters are likely to go totally Green both ticks esp if social justice gets the usual softly softly. Labour may get washed away in a Green landslide of low income red voters who are finally accepting that LABOUR IS BEYOND saving from it’s neo liberal core.


        • If Green voters were so switched on, which they ain’t, Labour would hold Northland and Whangarei, at least. They don’t because Green voters aren’t anywhere near as smart as you think.

          But before everyone has a meltdown at the the click bait headline, take a deep cleansing breath, nothing has happened yet.

          Ardern is probably THE most inclusive PM this country has seen in a very long time and that may well include people from other political persuasions. But if you can’t cope with that then virtual join Trumps Republicans!

          • The Greens campaign on the party vote only.
            But encourage their followers to vote Labour for the seat but yes there a some who two ticks Green who still vote fpp style . Because there is one thing this green voting boomer wants to see, is the total destruction of the National party, which is a damn shame it didn’t happen with a larger Green vote.

    • Just because they care about our environment does not make them looney they are probably the only left leaning party in parliament apart from the Maori party

      • If they only cared about the environment it would have been good, deceptive pretense go a long way to obtain the baubles of office, complemented with desperate insane policies to vote shop amongst the fringes of society, same as Winston and Seymour. Some of us is not that gullible.

      • Chloe? 70% of Akl Central did not want her. Think about that. So she is bloody lucky to be where she is.

        • Who cares what the rest of Auckland did and did not want Herman she has a mandate and it was the people of Auckland Central that gave her one. You sound like a bad loser.

  2. Johncinda, how could you? Oh, wait… yeah, the multi-million-dollar villa WILL look much nicer behind razor wire with bars on the windows…

  3. About that mandate to govern alone, Labour got 49.1% of the party vote – that’s less than 50%.
    More people voted for other parties.
    The 49.1% should get them 59 seats but under (our current) MMP’s redistribution of wasted votes they get 64. Those extra five seats came from voters who didn’t vote for Labour.

    • They didn’t, actually. Your comment would only be true if the seats of those parties that didn’t make it were allocated in accordance with second preferences. But we don’t operate that sort of electoral system.

  4. I liked this quote from Shaw:
    “We’re in that funny stage post-election where everybody’s trying to read tea leaves in absolutely everything that anybody says,”
    But I do think that it is good that Tuiono and March (maybe even Abel after specials) made it into parliament. Give them a couple of years finding their feet, and one of them may be likely to succeed in challenging Shaw for male coleadership. That seems more pressing than Swarbrick replacing Davidson to me, especially as she will be busy developing electorate MP skills.
    However, Shaw and Davidson have increased the Green party vote enough to bring in a couple of extra MPs (net; +3-1, unless +4-1 if specials are good). An immediate leadership exchange would seem to be a poor representation of my and other Green voters apparent will.
    Also unlikely to get support from the wider party, of which the parliamentary wing is but a part. Except that portion that only cares about central Auckland, and I trust most are less parochial than that.

    • If the greens deliberately choose a male and female co leader, how come no representation for gender non binary people?
      Surely not palpable hypocrisy from our moral (vegan) shepherds?

      • KC carryon The Green Party’s constitution establishes a leadership of one male and one female as co-leaders, that’s sort of inclusive, given that women are from Venus and men are from Mars.

        In the current Parliamentary input I think that 40% of the current Green MP’s are of non-binary gender. That’s pretty inclusive too. It’s also more serendipity, rather than the deliberate seeking out of gender minority groups to accommodate the sexual differentiation or accommodation which you might want, but which would contravene human rights legislation.

        Given that solo dads can raise mixed gender families ok, and mum’s can manage boys’ cricket clubs, and a male surgeon can attend a woman with breast cancer pretty competently, and a woman barrister represent a male rapist in a court of law, and most of us have never been overly concerned about the gender orientation of the whopping great jet planes which whip us up up and away into the skies, your concern that somewhere, someone is not being represented by the Green Party, may be some sort of obsessiveness on your part.

        Taken to its logical conclusion, the Greens should also include one or two kids to represent the children, and a couple of geriatrics to represent the vulnerable ageing.

        You may wish to lobby your local member about this. Do bear in mind that some of us tend to be conservative about involving young children in gender orientation issues, and that among the elderly, many gender differences become less evident and less important.

        Your sexual preferences are your own business, but there is more to life than sex, and it may not preoccupy others’ minds as much as it may yours, so if it’s bothering you too much, you could see a counsellor, get a hobby, self-publish a book, or have cold showers.

        Any concern on your part about genders

  5. LOL. And you lot thought it would be different. The joint parables of Animal Farm and the government of Tony Blair will explain 90% of the government’s actions over the next 3 years. My wife (no she didn’t vote Labour) and our joint house is of more import than homelessness and pover(d)y as the Blairite tries to get more of the landed gentry on the up mark of the k-shaped recovery.

    On a serious note what I am staggered about is how blatant is has been. At least Key tried to hide it.

  6. I can imagine the meeting:

    Jacinda: Now Jimmy roll over on your back so I can tickle your tummy
    Jimmy: Yes Boss
    Jacinda: Now Marama I’ll settle that little bit of land in South Auckland and let you reclaim the words ‘shit’ and ‘fuck’ and deplatform Bomber on social media
    Marama: I’m good boss

    Jacinda: Good now we’ve sorted i’ve got a RBNZ meeting with Grant and Adrian in 5 where we are working out to inflate house prices so my new adoring supporters can afford pizza ovens and jet skis. Oh and don’t let Chloe near the keys.
    Jimmy/Marama: Yes Boss

  7. ” It’s becoming clear Jacinda see’s her loyalty towards the new National voters, not her own Labour supporters… ”
    Right! Blaircinda will be the final nail in Old Labour’s coffin which began the 1984 coup d’état. She represents the final intellectual sell out to Neoliberalism. Unless a Jeremy Corbyn appears we’re f*cked by this centrist rubbish for all time. Property speculators for capital gain and privatisers have nothing to fear their party rolls on! The pseudo financialised FIRE sector will suck up increasing amounts of paper money causing massive debt deflation, mortgage slavery for life and a continuing ponzi bubble housing market. Our vassalage to Australian banks continues they suck profits out of us while dumping their costs onto us: deporting real Australians to NZ who are deemed NZers.
    This is our glorious New Labour which = National Lite! bereft of ideas spirit or guts or will to make the necessary changes. Led by career politician Blaircinda! 🙂

    When New Zealand ran under Social Democracy, we prospered. All this screaming about communism is totally off track. We currently don’t have socialism, communism or social democracy. We have neoliberalism.
    Previous prime ministers who implemented social democracy and had their roots in socialism were Michael Savage and Norman Kirk – both touted to be the best prime ministers we’ve ever had. Since then Labour left any vestiges of socialism and social democracy in the dust.
    The definition of communism is “absence of private ownership” so in general, state owned enterprise. Under Rogernomics, Labour began the wholesale selling off of all our state owned enterprise. Quick cash for today to pay off some debt, but essentially robbed the nation of money making assets and well paid jobs for the people. They sold the electricity and telecommunications and forestry and National continued the trend, finishing us off by selling off the vast majority of state houses, implementing user pays education and privatising the prison system.
    Our last vestiges of social democracy include government ownership of the hospitals and public school system which are rapidly being undermined in favour of charter schools and private health. Anybody promoting American style politics is working against the underdog. When they say there’s no free health – it’s paid for by our taxes, yes that’s totally correct, but it’s still better than a user pays system where the rich are fine and the poor die.
    It wasn’t always quite so dependent on the working class to fund these things. Our state owned enterprises used to help fund this stuff. Now our forestries, electricity, telecommunications etc are all owned by foreign corporations who weasel out of paying tax to support our social services, pay low wages and leave a greater burden on the citizens of Aotearoa.
    Remember when working in the forestry was a well paid job with a house? Now it’s minimum wage for potentially fatal jobs.
    The idea that we are now under communism seems to stem from the fact that Jacinda was leader of the International Union of Socialist Youth – a group that has long been known to have been infiltrated by the CIA to subvert it. Jacinda is as socialist or communist as Judith. She’s not. It’s fakery. Labour, National, NZ First, Act, James Shaw are all hardcore Neoliberals. I’m seeing empty promises but no real social policies being implemented.
    We need to kick neoliberalism to the curb and bring back social democracy. This should not be confused with full blown socialism, but rather incorporates the best aspects of it into a democratic system. Like Norman Kirk did. ”
    I agree with the above comment 🙁

  9. Are we still stuck in a narrative set by the National Party? The assumption that the people who voted National last time and Labour this time are “National’ Voters really plays in to the hands of the National Party in the long term.
    Clearly they are swing voters and I’m sure many of them voted for Helen Clark’s Labour government. Let’s not fall into the trap of saying they belong to the right and are just visiting at the moment. Much better to say they are voters who are returning home – especially if they are the female voters that everyone acknowledges John Key took from Labour in the first place

    • I voted for Helen Clark as I felt she was doing a good job increasing trade but keeping the unions in check . By the last 3 years her government turned into control freaks on our personnal lives but let the finance companies ruin many people by not controlling them. I voted National and have not seen anything in the Labour policy to get me voting for them . Jacinda has personally done a good job as a leader with the calls she made but I will be surprised if she is as popular at the end of the next 3 years . House prices will grow so rents will rise effecting both the renters and first home buyers rates and insurance will rise and this will hit the over 65 group. Limited funds will mean benefits will not rise . Farmers will become vital for our financial recovery so controls over them to protect the environment will be water down which will anger the Greens who they could need next time .

  10. We can’t rely on this parliamentary circus to solve our problems. It’s one giant diversion away from building an independent socialist party that represents the huge working majority. Bourgeois democracy is a sham, look at the US where voter suppression is rampant. All nations are moving towards authoritarian, Bonapartist state regimes.

    We have to organise independently for survival. Globally the system is about to crash and ramp up fascist petty bourgeois and lumpen workers to smash the workers. The imperialist rulers are taking back all past gains, imposing sanctions, surveillance and wars. We are a decade away from the point of no return.

    See you on the barricades comrades.

    • A decade? Keep dreamin’… it’s coming a lot faster than that… but yes, almost all nations will be following the PRC into authoritarian rule…

  11. Over the last three years Jacinda has done the impossible, many times over. Yet still that is not good enough for some who proclaim to be on the “Left”. And then people wonder why, in so many countries, it is the right-wing who take power.

    There is certainly hope for the Nats in the years ahead. It really doesn’t matter what crap they produce, there are always those on the “Left” who will try and find a way to sabotage all that they have been given, and to splinter and self-destruct from within.

    • Pure wisdom, and when the Nats were in office they cowered in the corners of darkness. Where were the protests and strike action etc. On no, we rather destabilize a progressive government.

  12. Well I suppose the gweens could set about cleaning the Wharepaku in parliament now that they got lucky and made a comeback?
    They’re good for handling that kinda work I guess?

  13. Jacinda bully and con? Your dreaming. Shoe me some evidence that Jacinda has ever bullied and conned.

    I don’t think James and Marama want to be in opposition, so they will look to some arrangement with labour. Climate change for James seems a good call as he was competent and worked well cross party. Not sure about the otherGreens though.

    Chloe ran a great campaign and hats off to you Martin, you were the only one who called it. If she was the one who implemented the the referendum, that may have been a big mistake. If it fails to pass which looks likely, that will kill cannabis reform for years, if decades. Bit of a risk, not a good call

    • Show me some evidence that Jacinda has ever bullied and conned.

      I had to go back and re-read that to find it.
      I’ve never seen any such evidence.
      And she’s been put through the mill, done more than her share of hard yards.
      So, ????????

  14. where is Ardern ‘ wishing to respect the nat vote for red , directly quoted or even suggested by her .

    being the minister of climate change should be Shaw’s first choice and would command a large amount of jurisdiction

    an opportunity not to be squandered .

  15. Oh the widdle gweenies should stay in opposition like they were when they were in a confidence and supply deal with labour last term!
    They were never part of the last government! Or the coalition!

    • Which may be why the GP MPs were returned to parliament, unlike NZFs.
      Also; denpaoa, I get that you are being ever so witty with your affected lisping, but it just makes your posts read like they were slapped together by an illiterate asshole. Which may or may not be your intention.

  16. I think that’s a very accurate summary of the situation. It’s exactly what I was thinking the Greens should do. There’s too much to lose and too little to gain by hitching their wagon to Labour when their voice is without real influence. Instead we should see and hear about the real Green vision and let that highlight the token efforts Labour make to address our environmental problems. The Greens will be stronger for it.

  17. Seriously, Im fucking sick of this country, all the govt seems to do is appease rich people, NZ is long overdue for a rebalance because there is a hell of alot of poor people here now and we’re sick of being stepped on.
    Just get rid of handbrake winston and now you’re hinting Labour should be more right wing? Fuck off.

  18. “Chloe must now replace Marama as co-leader of the Greens”

    Come on Martyn, you know that would be against the Green’s leadership rules – she’s too white! So it’s not likely to happen until they can find a male Maori contender to replace Jimmy Shaw.

  19. Chloe seems too self-effacing to stand for leader, yet. She took months to make up her mind who to stand for and she has only been in national politics for 3 years, after a run for mayor. Sure, Chloe did political studies and understands the system really well, but Jacinda got crap for only being an MP for 9 years. Is Choe’s brand tied to her youth – is this her last term where she is able to talk on behalf of school leavers, for example? She has certainly won some media columnists over recently, though. Maybe it is her time to take a tilt at the title. According to the Herald, scientists have proven chess players reach their peak at age 35. Go Chloe! The rest are over the hill, below opitimal.

  20. The only viable position for the Greens to take, is that of Left Opposition party.

    By landing hits on the government and exposing their failings is how an opposition party grows its support and convinces voters to vote for them and not the incumbents.

    Joining the government is how small parties are smothered to death, by the bigger partner.

    Being the minority partner they will always be outvoted in cabinet, but will then be bound under the rules of cabinet responsibility to support the cabinet’s majority decision.

    Bound by rules of cabinet responsibility, the smaller party becomes complicit in all government decisions. Many times those decisions will go against the wishes of the small party’s base. The effect is that those voters turn away from supporting the smaller party, and look elsewhere to put their vote.

    This will be the fate of the Green Party if their leading members give in and take up positions inside the Labour led cabinet..

    What we need is a Green opposition in parliament.

    God knows we need one.

    Labour won an unprecedented MMP majority for one reason.
    The victory over covid!
    It is disgusting and shocking to me that New Zealanders who voted in big numbers for Labour in reward for keeping covid out of this country, have been let down by the newly elected Labour government undoing all this hard work, by risking our hard won covid free status to appease a rapacious fishing company.
    The greatest number of the workforce of these factory ships is on the processing floor, any able bodied general labourer or factory hand could do it.
    After all the sacrifices we have all made I was looking forward to a covid free summer. (I presume many others were too, especially all the hard hit music and entertainment and events industry not to mention all the small business cafes and restaurants, who were hoping to recoup their losses made during lockdown).
    This has all been put at risk by corporate greed and centrist government caving in to corporate lobbying pressure.

    The government need to be taken to task for this sell out by someone.

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