MEDIA WATCH: Calling out Billy TK & JLR for Magic Talk Debate 

1. It takes an amazing mental gymnastic performance to combine 5G, Coronavirus is a bioweapon, Antivaxxers, The UN, Assassination and Donald Trump into one thing. Please make this happen.

   • Don’t forget Bill Gates

     • Yup, that pesky Bill. If he is not sometimes the richest person in the world then America can not claim to be, superior.

2. If you think debating with these nutters will be a push-over then you have news coming.
   They’re impervious to rational fact and argument.
   They employ irrational, but effective, tactics including
   – the Gish Gallop
   – shameless use of false and misleading citations and quotes
   – cherry picking and misrepresentation from credible source.

   You get the same from anti-vaxers, anti-fluoridation activists, religious apologists, climate science deniers and all the other science and reality deniers lurking amongst us.

   The problem is their tactics require time to debunk, they can spray as many falsehoods out as they like, in rapid fire. For each you one debunk another three will be proffered as replacement, the fact that you’ve demolished their earlier points now forgotten and irrelevant, but be assured they’ll shamelessly use such points again on the next sucker they encounter.

   Good luck.

   • These clown are making a mockery of NZ today.

   • What like……politicians. Well I never. Exhibit A Grant trying to explain the recession yesterday.

     They are turning politicians own rules against them. Good.

     Suck……it…….up. As HDPA said yesterday you can’t ban their rallies if you weren’t prepared to ban BLM protests.

     The establishment (both centre left and right) have brought this on themselves by their breathless arrogance over the past 2 decades. This could quite possibly be our OneNation moment. In an unenterprising and non entertaining campaign this is our election porn. The intricacies of MMP mean a batshit crazy party like this can get in as 5% is a low threshold. If I have to listen to ‘kindness’; ‘team of 5 million’ and ‘it’s all about the bounce back’ horseshit for the next 3 years at least give me some entertainment. And how entertaining parliament would be with this bunch in it…

     Remember you lot on the left (and centre left) brought this on yourselves. Enjoy.

     • That’s ok Frank ,it’s a free country you don’t have to be part of the team of 5 million, you can stay in your grumpy, miserable, and opinionated niche and as an exercise see if you can fi nd something in life that could qualify as positive.

     • “The establishment (both centre left and right) have brought this on themselves by their breathless arrogance over the past 2 decades”

       There is some truth in what you say but as an analysis it’s all very shallow.
       This is more about magical thinking and magical thinking has been around since the dawn of humanity, don’t pretend it’s a recent phenomenon driven by politics.
       If you really want to bring politics into it look at the tools used to promote this mindset. In regard to appealing and dog whistling to the lowest common denominators of fear, bigotry, ignorance and demagoguery the right wing have the market cornered. The Republican Party, Christian fundamentalists and the conservative movement in the USA have actively encouraged science denial and denigrated real expertise for decades, we’ve suffered that here too, again predominately from the right wing.

       But there is far more behind about how magical thinking and stupidity has been empowered and encouraged. For example, the world wide web has also provided ghettos, echo chambers and bunkers for irrational thinkers and their wares. Such topics are for books not comment threads.

       My comment was to remind Mr Bradbury of the tactical crap he’ll encounter and I believe run of the mill political debate will be an exercise in mundane propriety in comparison.

       • The internet provides an avenue for pent up frustrated thought. It’s the continued attempts by the establishment, particularly the left liberal side to regulate it that will fan the flames.

         I disagree it’s about magical thoughts – it’s more borne out of frustration and seeing an uneven playing field. This is a very recent phenomenon and it’s related to what we saw in Brexit and Trump’s election. Globalisation has left behind the less educated of the middle who now find themselves in the position of ethnic minorities without the crocodile tears politicians reserve for other maligned groups. People are voting their frustrations out which is a relatively new phenomenon in the developed world where on balance, consensus and consistency have ruled the day. The long term effect of covid19 will likely worsen this particularly the cynical way the majority of governments has politicalised this and have impinged on human rights (regardless of whether it was for the common good or not).

         In NZ the hammer will hit mid next year when the sugar rush has gone, there is no plan, travel restrictions remain and a k-shaped recovery has occurred. People will be desperate then and hugs and feelz won’t cut it. If Advance is still around by then (big if) then there will be fertile ground for >5% in 2023.

         NZ is primed for an extremist party to emerge – whether it is Advance will come down to how patient they are.

         • “It’s the continued attempts by the establishment, particularly the left liberal side to regulate it that will fan the flames.”

           I regard that as nonsense. We’ve had almost 40 years of right wing economic paradigm and here you are trying to pin current problems on the left wing.

           I agree there is a reaction to current economic erosion of middle and low income earners.

           Globalisation is the face of neoliberalism and the free market, it’s not been left wing creation (you know, the left wing who have exercised basically no power over the last 40 years).

           Of all neoliberal mechanisms, globalisation is about the only one I tentatively support, for the broader good of humanity, as it raises the living standards of the developing world and ends by stealth the first world’s exploitative economic dominance. The irony being, that by pursuing globalisation western capitalists are essentially burning down their own homes. It’s implementation is hardly been a left wing mechanism, it’s been driven by pure Friedman-ism. It’s failure is becoming more and more obvious and lies in the fact that the pain associated with the transfer of wealth from the first world is not shared equitably. It’s this inequity that leads to the frustration you allude to.

           Lastly TK’s goobledegook is magical thinking, irrational thinking by another name. This style of thinking is independent of its cause. The almost universally popular religions were founded in it millennia ago, there have been more prevalent periods of magical thinking in the past and periods of less prevalence.
           Many ultimately vote against their economic and class interest. That’s being irrational. It’s poor thinking, irrespective of its motivation.

           Currently Advance NZ aren’t a serious political movement. They have no coherent goals. Yes their danger lies in the spectre of a real demagogue arising in their midst, but I believe that’s unlikely.

           • Globalisation is now a product of the left and has been for a couple of decades. Sure corporate has remained hitched to it, purely from a self interest perspective. The aims of globalisation are now inherently left on the political spectrum.

             Globalisation was never about a free market – it is a trojan horse for the economies of scale, technology and scope which are nothing but anti freemarket. The americans realised this early on but have been superceded by the Chinese. In its purest form it’s a weapon that countries, including NZ wield against each other.

             Look at the main political proponents of Globalisation – they aren’t right wing anymore on average moreso centre left such as Ardern.

             Getting back to the topic the freedom of the internet coupled with the winner/loser dynamics of the global economic system will result in more radicalisation in the coming years especially as the status quo economic prescription isn’t going to fix the structural problems inherent in the world economy.

             NZ is ripe for an extremist political movement.

   • Pushovers they are not for are they not…

     “STABLE GENIUSES “

   • No, I like debating with the stupid people you describe because eventually, they run out of words to say, that other people have given them. there will come a point where you can write and give Billy your own words for him to say.

     The conditions for victory doesn’t have to be those that Billy and Jamie agree on. So it isn’t necessary to use logic P+Q=T and so on so on if your goal is to convert their audience and smarter people than I do that by educating the audience on how they are being scammed.

     Everyone in politics knows Billy T.K and Jamie are frauds and all of their “electoral returns” are pure fabricated lies. Plus Billy’s entire back story is fictional. He made the whole thing up. Total reject loser from the music industry trying to cross over into politics.

3. Why don’t you ask Billy – just you and him ?

   why do you need a tag-team ?

   • First of all, The Working Group is made up of 3 people, Bomber, Damian and Plunket. Second is have a listen to the show at least before you start trying to change the format.

4. Why turn the invite into a circus at the start ?
   Get ready Losers … Billy and JL are coming for ya https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZ0fBa-j8AI

   • You noticed.

5. I forgot how awesome the ultimate warrior was

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